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How does the Air manage throttling and performance loss in games?!
- Thread starter macddy
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@wyatterp thanks for doing this test, it's really interesting.
But to be honest, I don't understand how this is possible.
1568/1157~= 1.35
When throttling, you observed the 8 core gpu to be about 35% faster.
The difference between the two setups is one gpu core.
So naively, one could expect a difference of about 14% (8/7~=1.14)
When thermal throttling, the clockspeeds are limited by tdp.
The loss of 14% should occur, when the 7 core and 8 core gpu run at the same clockspeed.
But this doesn't really make sense to me.
Shouldn't the 7 core use less power then?
So it should be able to clock a little bit higher?
What I would have expected is this: peak performance of the 8 core gpu is 14% higher.
When throttling, both setups become slower and the difference between them decreases a little bit.
The advantage of the 8 core gpu could be something like 10% then.
Sorry, but could you maybe rerun those benchmarks?
Benchmarking is notoriously brittle. Maybe there was some os task going on in the back.
But to be honest, I don't understand how this is possible.
1568/1157~= 1.35
When throttling, you observed the 8 core gpu to be about 35% faster.
The difference between the two setups is one gpu core.
So naively, one could expect a difference of about 14% (8/7~=1.14)
When thermal throttling, the clockspeeds are limited by tdp.
The loss of 14% should occur, when the 7 core and 8 core gpu run at the same clockspeed.
But this doesn't really make sense to me.
Shouldn't the 7 core use less power then?
So it should be able to clock a little bit higher?
What I would have expected is this: peak performance of the 8 core gpu is 14% higher.
When throttling, both setups become slower and the difference between them decreases a little bit.
The advantage of the 8 core gpu could be something like 10% then.
Sorry, but could you maybe rerun those benchmarks?
Benchmarking is notoriously brittle. Maybe there was some os task going on in the back.
I played World of Warcraft on my 8GB RAM 512GB SSD (8 GPU cores) MacBook Air M1 for several hours on an external 5k Display (Apple LG version) on high resolution (1440p) and medium settings (5). The few times I looked, the DPS always was above 30, and the game felt fluid and well playable (or I wouldn't have played for hours 
)
I originally wanted a 16GB MacBook Pro M1, but this was not available locally until January next year. To have something to play with (not that I would need another Computer, really), I bought the model mentioned above. This will certainly keep me going until the next generation appears.
I also tested a larger work project with Xcode, for those interested, and the performance is very good, too. It felt as snappy as on the MacBook Pro 16" which cost 4 times more (in my almost maxed out variant).
)I originally wanted a 16GB MacBook Pro M1, but this was not available locally until January next year. To have something to play with (not that I would need another Computer, really), I bought the model mentioned above. This will certainly keep me going until the next generation appears.
I also tested a larger work project with Xcode, for those interested, and the performance is very good, too. It felt as snappy
as on the MacBook Pro 16" which cost 4 times more (in my almost maxed out variant).Has WoW improved? Last time I played it was when the GTX 1080 was the king of video cards (non Ti version). And even brought that video card to its knees (at 1080p too) in heavy cities like OrgrimmarI played World of Warcraft on my 8GB RAM 512GB SSD (8 GPU cores) MacBook Air M1 for several hours on an external 5k Display (Apple LG version) on high resolution (1440p) and medium settings (5). The few times I looked, the DPS always was above 30, and the game felt fluid and well playable (or I wouldn't have played for hours
I originally wanted a 16GB MacBook Pro M1, but this was not available locally until January next year. To have something to play with (not that I would need another Computer, really), I bought the model mentioned above. This will certainly keep me going until the next generation appears.
I also tested a larger work project with Xcode, for those interested, and the performance is very good, too. It felt as snappy
If you think you're seeing throttling, would you expect to see that reported by
I haven't played any games for long periods yet but have run other cpu/gpu tasks that took 20 minutes-ish on my MacBook Air and still see:
Edit: after a couple of hours of adding to global warming with World of Warcraft, Velocidrone and Liftoff, sometimes combined with Cinebench to get the CPU going
Real world tests might be a bit more difficult if you can't be sure that throttling has occurred.
pmset -g thermlog?I haven't played any games for long periods yet but have run other cpu/gpu tasks that took 20 minutes-ish on my MacBook Air and still see:
Edit: after a couple of hours of adding to global warming with World of Warcraft, Velocidrone and Liftoff, sometimes combined with Cinebench to get the CPU going
pmset -g thermlog still doesn't report anything. The man page does say "not available on all platforms".Real world tests might be a bit more difficult if you can't be sure that throttling has occurred.
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Could you post the settings that were used?I played World of Warcraft on my 8GB RAM 512GB SSD (8 GPU cores) MacBook Air M1 for several hours on an external 5k Display (Apple LG version) on high resolution (1440p) and medium settings (5). The few times I looked, the DPS always was above 30, and the game felt fluid and well playable (or I wouldn't have played for hours
I am also curious if you had the "Target FPS" setting on or off?
This setting was recently added, and would basically give a false FPS, as it dynamically raises and lowers the other settings to get the desired FPS selected.
The Target DPS setting is on as a default.
@tiberiu I saw a similar clip on tally ho tech (youtube channel). They also compared with windows notebooks, with intel and amd.
The amd ryzen actually beats the m1 quite clearly, both on peak and sustained load. But that's in a fan-cooled notebook, vs mbp.
Haven't seen the ryzen in a fanless design.
The amd ryzen actually beats the m1 quite clearly, both on peak and sustained load. But that's in a fan-cooled notebook, vs mbp.
Haven't seen the ryzen in a fanless design.
My methodology probably won't stand up to much scrutiny, but I have attempted to measure FPS over time using Liftoff (its a Steam/Intel/Metal FPV drone flight simulator) on an 8-core GPU, 16GB memory MBA. I reset to the same point each time for the readings and the environment doesn't change as far as I can tell.
Is it reasonable to presume that the performance drop is due to thermal throttling? Maybe, but the chassis doesn't get much hotter than the low 40s °C.
Is it reasonable to presume that the performance drop is due to thermal throttling? Maybe, but the chassis doesn't get much hotter than the low 40s °C.
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@Mechanism what machine is this? 8 or 7 core gpu?
also, thanks for making these tests. The plot looks great
also, thanks for making these tests. The plot looks great
Good point... 8-core GPU, 16GB. I'll add that to the post.@Mechanism what machine is this? 8 or 7 core gpu?
also, thanks for making these tests. The plot looks great
I'm not sure I can answer that in a useful way; there are too many unknowns. Presumably it would throttle earlier if you were doing something that would cause it to throttle.
40 fps might look a bit low but that was on some fairly high settings to make sure the GPU was being pushed. And the test may be complete b******s.
Another graph; same test as before, but lower settings, and using a script to take a screenshot every minute. It's less of a real-world test as there's no movement in the game but that's the trade-off.
The result this time is a 15% drop in framerate over 50-ish minutes until it levels out.
As you might predict from the graph, limiting framerate to 60 results in a constant 60 fps for an hour.
The result this time is a 15% drop in framerate over 50-ish minutes until it levels out.
As you might predict from the graph, limiting framerate to 60 results in a constant 60 fps for an hour.
I received my base model(8-core CPU, 7-core GPU, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD), MacBook Air(M1) yesterday, and have been playing World of Warcraft quite a bit over the past few days. The game runs great. I've played several multi-hour long sessions and I am just blown away by this computer.
With the settings shown below, I get a very consistent 60FPS everywhere in the world that I've been(I haven't done any raids, mostly solo or small group play). The bottom of the case definitely does get hot, and the area above the function keys on the top of the case, but no hotter than any other MBP or MBA I've used or owned through the years. I wouldn't want to leave the bare metal on the skin of my lap for long, because it would become uncomfortable, but not in a burning hot sort of way. It also cools down very quickly. I'm sure there was some throttling that happened, but none that I noticed. The frame rates held steady.
For some additional perspective on my idea of performance, I use both a 6-core 2018 MBP and a 12-core 2019 Mac Pro on a daily basis for work and personal uses. This thing is fast. I had originally opted for the M1 MBP with 16GB of RAM but changed my mind and went with the MBA.
With the settings shown below, I get a very consistent 60FPS everywhere in the world that I've been(I haven't done any raids, mostly solo or small group play). The bottom of the case definitely does get hot, and the area above the function keys on the top of the case, but no hotter than any other MBP or MBA I've used or owned through the years. I wouldn't want to leave the bare metal on the skin of my lap for long, because it would become uncomfortable, but not in a burning hot sort of way. It also cools down very quickly. I'm sure there was some throttling that happened, but none that I noticed. The frame rates held steady.
For some additional perspective on my idea of performance, I use both a 6-core 2018 MBP and a 12-core 2019 Mac Pro on a daily basis for work and personal uses. This thing is fast. I had originally opted for the M1 MBP with 16GB of RAM but changed my mind and went with the MBA.
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Apart from measuring the chassis temperature (the low 40s number I mentioned) I don't know if it's possible yet.
you receive your mac yesterday but you are playing WOW for few days on it? How can it be days since you just receive it just the other day ?!
Plce the Mac Pro WOW settings to see the diff
I received it Saturday, and have played multiple several hour long sessions on both Saturday and Sunday. Hope that helps clarify.
You have to turn of the "Target DPS" setting, as this will seemlessly change the system settings, lowing them to maintain a FPS of 60.
You can have all the settings turned up high, but if Target DPS is turned on, then the game will automatically adapt the settings to attempt to get to the desired FPS.
See a copy of your photo:
Goes to show the MBA does throttle.. I notice the fan does turn on under GPU oriented tasks on my MBP m1 so it's probably safe to assume that if you do want to game a bit, you might consider the MBP for it's fan and ability to prevent throttling (as much) over time.