how far can you push 8gb MBA m2?

[Hexoic]

Hi all

I could use some help with this choice, I'm SO conflicted.

Currently have 13" MBP (i5 2.8ghz mid 2014, 16GB, 1TB). This *sorely* needs an upgrade. It struggles valiantly but it's 8 years old!

"Let's wait for M1 native apps" turned into "might as well wait for m2" turned into "ah but m3 is coming soon."

Now I have an opportunity to get a MBA m2 (base except for 512 ssd) for €1100 (currently it's around 1400 on amazon or more from apple direct).

ouch, but 8gb of ram in 2023?

For example right now I have: 40+ browser tabs (sometimes balloons to much more), zoom, messages, mail, itunes, two other browsers with a handful of tabs, notes, photoshop (nothing crazy just some ~20mb psds, sometimes work on 400mb files), preview, textedit, a password manager, numbers, evernote, vlc player (actively playing), pages, numbers, photos, system prefs, and I'm using 14gb of swap. Everything lags. I regularly get typing lag and mouse stutter, video editing is unbearable. I've even gotten iTunes playback stutter.

So yeah, I wouldn't have picked 8gb, but that is the deal. And it's a good deal for what it is. (it's from a friend, new in box)

I hear the chorus of "get a 32gb m2 pro, it'll last for years, don't worry about the m3!"

Yes, you're right, that's a distinct option. Some counter points however:

• I was likely going to be too constipated about the m3 to pull the trigger anyway
• If I had a 13" air, it'd free me up to get a 16" rather than 14" MBP m3 when it comes out- I could keep the air for travel. More pricey overall but it'd be spaced out.
• Or, could sell the air in a year or so, replace with 14" MBP, so the MBA was just there to 'bridge the gap'. Air not being future-proof for my use wouldn't matter in that case.

But... both of those options do still require that MBA to be at least present-proof, never mind future-proof. Like, decently usable. Doesn't have to be perfect, but not freezing up, stuttering, tabs crashing, text lagging while typing, finder glitching, unable to do anything else while a video exports, 2 second delay after you move a clip, can't effectively use safari while in a zoom meeting, you get the idea.

So my question is- can the m2 air squeak by? Anybody here got that config who is pushing that machine?

Cos I've now flip-flopped endlessly between:
"ah it's fine, it'll be lightyears better than the 2014 i5 nonsense, what people call slow these days is nothing next to that!"
to
"8gb is 8gb no matter how efficiently used or paired with faster chips, as soon as you multitask for 30 minutes and it'll thermal throttle and fill swap till it's lagged all the way to hell and m2 can't do squat about that."

If I was paying the full price, I wouldn't do it. I'd just get a nice spec 14" pro and be happy. But now that there's this option I'm like.. hm.. maybe? idk. help.

And to anyone who is about to type "use fewer tabs and close apps".. listen, listen.. if I was capable of that, I would be doing it already, but alas I must pay the adhd RAM tax. I have so many things open simultaneously because I need to switch between tasks every few minutes or else my brain will quit on me. Also, who doesn't like being in a zoom meeting while listening to a podcast while doing graphic design while listening to music on the other ear via iphone (true story)?

thank you!

 

[applepotato666]

I have the 8GB M1 MacBook Pro with the touch bar. I push it quite a bit and it's fine apart from the occasional hangs when something really intensive is going on and it's just writing endlessly to the SSD. I'm at almost 100TB written to it after nearly 3 years of use and I see no point in replacing it currently, but I recognize the SSD wear that's going on. I just don't care for it as I'll likely need a new computer altogether until that kills the SSD.

What I'll let you know for certain though is that 8GB is not enough for your use case. When I know I'm going to push it I close all apps that aren't currently needed, and I'll leave just music and Photoshop for example. There's something nasty going on with the audio when you push the RAM - anything you're playing will start repeating the last second or so until you free up the memory and it's not pleasant especially when you're listening to music and doing something intensive like some operations in Photoshop. I'm fine with that happening, in Europe upgrades to RAM would've taken a month in wait and cost a lot because it's treated as a custom configuration. I'm looking to upgrade to the M1/M2 Pro series with the 16GB as base RAM one day, and I'll likely buy used.

A major warning is that a base M1 Air would likely be better for you than the base M2 Air if you're not willing to upgrade the RAM or SSD. That's because the M2 has a slower SSD in the base configuration (1 SSD chip instead of 2, so half the speed) and situations where you use high swap would be handled better than the faster SSD of the M1. I've tested it - the M2 Air was a mess for me where my M1 was doing okay (despite still swapping a ton it didn't cause noticeable hangs unlike on the M2).

Heat won’t be a problem (really I’ve only heard the fan on mine when rendering something in Blender on the Cycles engine) so the Air could theoretically be an ok choice, but not with just 8GB of RAM and 16 may not be enough either.

When you start upgrading storage and RAM on the Air you realize getting a base Pro makes more economical sense. Upgrade from there if you're looking to also future-proof it (which imo is pointless due to everything being soldered down and made to guarantee that you’ll buy a new one when something inevitably breaks)

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Posing this question to Apple fans is going to get passionate arguments FOR whatever Apple has for sale now. This same crowd used to argue FOR YEARS that 1GB RAM in iDevices was plenty because iOS was so well optimized. You can't ask a very biased crowd and expect to get a lot of objective answers. It's like visiting a political party convention and asking which political party is best.

Based on your stated needs, 8GB is prob not enough... if not now, then during life of the device when even the macOS upgrades to come will demand more of it. Save up the extra and get at least 16GB. Your stated "swap" size makes me think you should actually be aiming for 24GB-32GB. For now, that might yield little more than peace of (your) mind. For something you've already illustrated you might keep & use for EIGHT+ years, $200 more for double the ram should be justifiable. That's $25/year over the next 8 years. $400 more for triple the RAM is only $50/year over 8 years.

With silicon, you are not buying for today's needs. You are buying for year 8's needs. How much more demand will you have on RAM and SSD in 2031?

You are basically being seduced to buy below your obvious 2023 needs by "a good deal." This is not a purchase like last-minute, discount tickets to some event. You're buying a long-term-use tool here. While price is always important, the difference between what even you seem to know you need vs. this particular offer is only a few hundred dollars.

Maybe hop into the refurb store and look at the mix of M1s and M2s there with a good amount of RAM- probably 24GB-32GB. If you need to cut corners somewhere, perhaps seek less SSD and lean on an external in a fast enclosure? And my gut says you probably need M1 or M2 MBpro vs. MBair. You clearly list some power uses. While Air is great, Pro is going to do some of what you want your Mac to do better, for longer without throttling and faster.

Or be a little patient, let those M3s hit (as soon as only a month or two from now) and then re-hit the refurb store for M1 and M2 Macs... or watch for 3rd party retailer "deals." They will likely be priced lower with M3 arriving and thus you can have your cake and eat it too.

Crazier idea?: other than a few Apple-specific apps which can be mostly replicated in other apps, everything in your list runs on a Windows laptop. A few Apple specific apps like Numbers is still inferior to Excel on Windows. And since price is so tempting, the same dollars will buy a lot more on a platform with so much competition for RAM and SSD. Choose well and you can start cheap with minimal RAM and SSD and then upgrade it out in years 4-8 if you need more. That's still a great advantage to PC: the ability to evolve the tool to future needs vs. throwing the entire tool out because it no longer fits needs a buyer can't always anticipate at the time of purchase.

This crowd will hammer this idea but Macs were basically PC platforms until a few years ago... and everyone enthusiastically purchased them while they were. With my own hop to Silicon, I needed full Windows too, so I purchased a Silicon Mac and a Mac Mini-like PC too. No, it doesn't require a nuclear reactor to power it. No, I don't get third degree burns if I touch it. No, there is no jet-engine fan noise when in use. No, my electric bill is not 20X higher when I use it... just like none of that was an extreme issue when Macs ran on Intel. Yes, it is flexible for expanding RAM and SSD. Yes, it can run hundreds of thousands of apps not available on Mac. Yes, it is a computer focused on POWER (speed of computing) vs. PPW. Yes, if I need to upgrade any of it in a few years, those upgrades are very likely to be much cheaper than now.

My post will prob be followed by about 20 more arguing how 8GB is plenty, swaps are fast because SSD is so fast, etc... but again, which political party is best? Coke vs. Pepsi in a Coke-drinking crowd? Chevy vs. Ford at a convention of Ford enthusiasts? You seem to have a pretty solid sense that what you need vs. this particular offer is not a match. Don't be so quick to let a modest "bargain" overwhelm your sensible evaluation... regardless of 20-200 Apple fans heartily endorsing what Apple has for sale right now. As soon as Apple abandons 8GB as base, this crowd will turn on 8GB and argue passionately for the next base level as "ideal" for "99% of computer users."

 

[vkd]

Bookmark all those webpages you have open, close them and save a boatload of memory overload.

Why have iTunes open AND VLC Player?

Why have 3 browsers open at the same time?

You could very easily chop your memory overload down to a fraction with just a little bit of app management.

 

[Hexoic]

I have the 8GB M1 MacBook Pro with the touch bar. I push it quite a bit and it's fine apart from the occasional hangs when something really intensive is going on and it's just writing endlessly to the SSD. I'm at almost 100TB written to it after nearly 3 years of use and I see no point in replacing it currently, but I recognize the SSD wear that's going on. I just don't care for it as I'll likely need a new computer altogether until that kills the SSD.

What I'll let you know for certain though is that 8GB is not enough for your use case. When I know I'm going to push it I close all apps that aren't currently active, and say I'll leave just music and Photoshop. There's something nasty going on with the audio when you push the RAM - anything you're playing will start repeating the last second or so until you free up the memory and it's not pleasant especially when you're listening to music and doing something intensive like some operations in Photoshop. I'm fine with that happening, in Europe upgrades to RAM would've taken a month in wait and cost a lot because it's treated as a custom configuration. I'm looking to upgrade to the M1/M2 Pro series with the 16GB as base RAM one day, and I'll likely buy used.

A major warning is that a base M1 Air would likely be better for you than the base M2 Air if you're not willing to upgrade the RAM or SSD. That's because the M2 has a slower SSD in the base configuration (1 SSD chip instead of 2, so half the speed) and situations where you use high swap would be handled better than the faster SSD of the M1. I've tested it - the M2 Air was a mess for me where my M1 was doing okay (despite still swapping a ton it didn't cause noticeable hangs unlike on the M2).

Get at least the M1 Pro with the 16 gigs of RAM if you want current-proof. Upgrade from there if you're looking to also future-proof it (which imo is pointless, as generational improvements over 5 years or so make a new computer justified down the line rather than having to replace the battery, plus everything is soldered down)

Thank you for this in depth response. Oh, wow, and that's with active cooling and possibly a better heat sink than the m2 air. ok.. that's terrifying.

So even the example I gave (without crazy big files in photoshop or video editing) would be pushing it to the point of music stutter? Let's say (lol, not me negotiating with the universe) 30 something tabs, discord, notes, evernote, text edit, pages, some light photoshoping while playing itunes, that's already breaking it?
It's one thing when it hangs here or there, it's another for there to be a delay on everything to the point of getting glitches.

Oh, it does have upgraded ssd- to 512. Yeah the 8gb ram with 256gb ssd is criminally anemic imo. the various youtubers seem to all say that it's better to upgrade the ssd because it makes swap so much faster while also giving you storage.

Also, you're correct on the m1, however I can't exactly swap which model my friend is selling, I've looked around and the M1 Air 8gb 512ssd is going for 1390 on amazon, or 1200 refurb from apple. The deal of a new m2 air with 512 ssd for 1100 is the only thing that's tempting me here.

You make a good point on future proofing. Though it does still help sale price, so you get some of that back, and maybe instead of future proof it should be called, idk "burst of intense workloads sometimes-proof" ? But I do see your point.

 

[Hexoic]

Bookmark all those webpages you have open, close them and save a boatload of memory overload.

Why have iTunes open AND VLC Player?

Why have 3 browsers open at the same time?

You could very easily chop your memory overload down to a fraction with just a little bit of app management.

I'm genuinely curious, when you sit at your mac- do you do one thing for like, at least half an hour? I'm fascinated. Do you go "ah, now I will continue researching x topic" with no reminder, and open those bookmarks in tabs and research for half an hour or more?

Because for me it's more like this:
music and writing in evernote for 4 minutes
watch vlc for 10 minutes
reply email while vlc still playing for 2 minutes
back to music and writing for 1 minute
update sheets in Numbers with music for 10 minutes
watch vlc for 3 minutes
messaging app and photoshop (back and forth with client while working) and playing music for 20 minutes
vlc for 3 minutes
photoshop and messenger and music for another 20
See discord app and remember that I need to manage my discord for 8 minutes
want a song that isn't in itunes- play it from youtube or spotify
notice a browser window with a few tabs for research, pick up that for a few minutes

and on it goes. If I put things away, I will forget they are there. I will forget to write invoices if numbers isn't open, I have literally lost hundreds of euros because I. will. forget. I will forget to finish a work project if it isn't open. Imagine you have the mental RAM of a goldfish. I do close things I don't need, files I am finished working on, etc. But there's just a lot of stuff that is constantly being worked or listened to/watched. Would you close an app if you knew you'd use it again in a few minutes? Would you close an app if you knew that if you do it'll cost you €200 unless you remember something which you have forgotten multiple times before?

I've heard what you're saying many times before, and I used to internalise this and think I was just unorganised or undisciplined or something. But it's a bit like telling someone "have you tried walking without the crutch? It's so much better" yes I can see that it is, yet if I try that I will fall on my face.

 

[applepotato666]

Let's say (lol, not me negotiating with the universe) 30 something tabs, discord, notes, evernote, text edit, pages, some light photoshoping while playing itunes, that's already breaking it?

That's quite heavy usage! 30 something tabs has already pushed it with 8GB of RAM. If Safari is the only thing open and I have about 10 tabs open with static content, in most cases if I circle through them it's going to start reloading them. I believe Tab Groups or whatever Apple's name for that was would help to manage that. I usually close any tab I don't need right at that moment, so assuming you need those 30 tabs to stay in the RAM all the time, which is impossible.

If you quit all tabs from the mentioned, I think you'd have no issue (except long-term swap hammering of the SSD) with having Discord in the background, Pages and the Notes apps running while listening to music and doing some light photoshopping without encountering lags. But I'm speaking off of experience with the M1 and not the M2, which in high swap scenarios was beyond worse in my experience. The upgraded SSD should help as it'd have 2 chips for 512GB. But I still don't think it's the right fit for your usage.

You make a good point on future proofing. Though it does still help sale price, so you get some of that back, and maybe instead of future proof it should be called, idk "burst of intense workloads sometimes-proof" ? But I do see your point.

As for the resale value, it does help but it's mostly a hindrance to being able to sell it. Most people are looking to save when buying used hardware and the base model is so much easier to sell to someone, plus M2 Max performs similarly to the previous year's very much more expensive M1 Ultra. And the M3 is shaping up to be a big jump in performance on the 3nm node. The generational improvements like that don't make future-proofing worth it - get the machine you'd need now.

 

[Hexoic]

Posing this question to Apple fans is going to get passionate arguments FOR whatever Apple has for sale now. This same crowd used to argue FOR YEARS that 1GB RAM in iDevices was plenty because iOS was so well optimized. You can't ask a very biased crowd and expect to get a lot of objective answers. It's like visiting a political party convention and asking which political party is best.

Based on your stated needs, 8GB is prob not enough... if not now, then during life of the device when even the macOS upgrades to come will demand more of it. Save up the extra and get at least 16GB. Your stated "swap" size makes me think you should actually be aiming for 24GB-32GB. For now, that might yield little more than peace of (your) mind. For something you've already illustrated you might keep & use for EIGHT+ years, $200 more for double the ram should be justifiable. That's $25/year over the next 8 years. $400 more for triple the RAM is only $50/year over 8 years.

With silicon, you are not buying for today's needs. You are buying for year 8's needs. How much more demand will you have on RAM and SSD in 2031?

You are basically being seduced to buy below your obvious 2023 needs by "a good deal." This is not a purchase like last-minute, discount tickets to some event. You're buying a long-term-use tool here. While price is always important, the difference between what even you seem to know you need vs. this particular offer is is only a few hundred dollars.

Maybe hop into the refurb store and look at the mix of M1s and M2s there with a good amount of RAM- probably 24GB-32GB. If you need to cut corners somewhere, perhaps seek less SSD and lean on an external in a fast enclosure? And my gut says you probably need M1 or M2 MBpro vs. MBair. You clearly list some power uses. While Air is great, Pro is going to do some of what you want your Mac to do better, for longer without throttling and faster.

Or be a little patient, let those M3s hit (as soon as only a month or two from now) and then re-hit the refurb store for M1 and M2 Macs... or watch for 3rd party retailer "deals." They will likely be priced lower with M3 arriving and thus you can have your cake and eat it too.

Crazier idea?: other than a few Apple-specific apps which can be mostly replicated in other apps, everything in your list runs on a Windows laptop. A few Apple specific apps like Numbers is still inferior to Excel on Windows. And since price is so tempting, the same dollars will buy a lot more on a platform with so much competition for RAM and SSD. Choose well and you can start cheap with minimal RAM and SSD and then upgrade it out in years 4-8 if you need more. That's still a great advantage to PC: the ability to evolve the tool to future needs vs. throwing the entire tool out because it no longer fits needs a buyer can't always anticipate at the time of purchase.

This crowd will hammer this idea but Macs were basically PC platforms until a few years ago... and everyone enthusiastically purchased them while they were. With my own hop to Silicon, I needed full Windows too, so I purchased a Silicon Mac and a Mac Mini-like PC too. No, it doesn't require a nuclear reactor to power it. No, I don't get third degree burns if I touch it. No, there is no jet-engine fan noise when in use. No, my electric bill is not 20X higher when I use it... just like none of that was an extreme issue when Macs ran on Intel. Yes, it is flexible for expanding RAM and SSD. Yes, it can run hundreds of thousands of apps not available on Mac. Yes, it is a computer focused on POWER (speed of computing) vs. PPW.

My post will prob be followed by about 20 more arguing how 8GB is plenty, swaps are fast because SSD is so fast, etc... but again, which political party is best? Coke vs. Pepsi in a Coke-drinking crowd? Chevy vs. Ford at a convention of Ford enthusiasts? You seem to have a pretty solid sense that what you need vs. this particular offer is not a match. Don't be so quick to let a modest "bargain" overwhelm your sensible evaluation... regardless of 20-200 Apple fans heartily endorsing what Apple has for sale right now. As soon as Apple abandons 8GB as base, this crowd will turn on 8GB and argue passionately for the next base level as "ideal" for "99% of computer users."

Thank you for the warning.. I can't help but notice that nobody has yet to be that blind apple fanboy here, nobody's been hammering anything, and I'm asking this because the reviews I watched said the same thing. Also, Apple does also sell 16 and 24gb memory versions of this, so it seems like the fanboys could just hype that instead.

I appreciate your long reply. Though, I'd like to point out;

1. I know 32gb would be best for me (at least, in fact)
2. I did keep my current laptop for 8 years, but I am planning on getting a pro later anyway, and this MBA would merely be a "stop gap thing till I replace it with m3 pro" or a "live on as my secondary/travel laptop after I get the pro". My question essentially was "I know this is underpowered for me- but will it scrape by in a halfway usable fashion, or will it be an infuriating lag-fest as soon as those tabs and apps are open, music or video playing, etc."
3. It's not 200 more for double the RAM. The prices I gave compare the retail price and the deal price for the same spec. If I got it with 16gb ram it'd be €650 more, or 400 more if refurb.

I actually do have my own pc build also. It's nice, but not what I'm looking for at the moment.

And I think we agree. I should get a pro. I already saved for it.
But- if I have one macbook, it has to be the 14" for portability. I've seen the 16 and lifted it, it's great I want it on my desk- but I *never* want to carry that bad boy. If I can get a deal on an air that'll do fine-ish and be able to fill the portability role, that'd make the 16" a possibility. Otherwise I wouldn't even consider the air.

It is sounding like it's not going to be up to my workload though- even if I don't do any crazy big photoshop files or video editing while other stuff is open.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Nobody can answer the #2 question but you after you own it and try it. Yes, it can easily be halfway usable. And Yes, it will be an infuriating lag-fest. Those are "eye of the beholder" opinions. Some could argue it's completely usable to them. Others could argue it's almost not usable at all for such tasks and loads.

Don't forget there is a 13" MBpro too.

32GB MBpro 14" in the refurb store right now for $2039. If the intent is to buy one and then another, maybe pool the budgets and buy the one you actually want/need now. Again, it only seems like the "bargain" price of the one being offered by the friend is overriding your own sense of what you need. You already imagine that that one is probably not enough for what you want it to do. For a product I might use for up to 8 years, I wouldn't let price be my main decision driver when the difference between what you actually need vs. this is not really that much (especially if spread over the use life).

And if "stop gap" and "portable" dominate, what if you get a little crazy and buy a Mac Mini and Portable screen? Maybe Mac Mini "Pro" and Portable screen? Base M2 Mac mini with 24GB RAM is $999 new. It should hit the refurb store soon for 10%-15% off. Portable screens cost very little.

Stepping that craziness up a notch, $1529 would get a refurbed M1 MAX Mac Studio with 32GB RAM which should have enough power and memory for all of what you are doing. Pair it with a portable screen for "on the road" needs. Carry it in a Studio Case like this one, portable screen in a dedicated laptop bag/luggage. Or get a case with foam that can be cut to size to get both in one bag. I actually see a bit of this out and about: people bringing these small desktops and portable screens instead of traditional laptops. Why? Presumably they want the added power and/or value of desktop vs. laptop.

But all things considered: If me, I'd get the tool I need for years out in the future vs. letting a good price move me to getting a tool I already believe won't be enough for my needs in the present.

 

[Hexoic]

That's quite heavy usage! 30 something tabs has already pushed it with 8GB of RAM. If Safari is the only thing open and I have about 10 tabs open with static content, in most cases if I circle through them it's going to start reloading them. I believe Tab Groups or whatever Apple's name for that was would help to manage that. I usually close any tab I don't need right at that moment, so assuming you need those 30 tabs to stay in the RAM all the time, which is impossible.

If you quit all tabs from the mentioned, I think you'd have no issue (except long-term swap hammering of the SSD) with having Discord in the background, Pages and the Notes apps running while listening to music and doing some light photoshopping without encountering lags. But I'm speaking off of experience with the M1 and not the M2, which in high swap scenarios was beyond worse in my experience. The upgraded SSD should help as it'd have 2 chips for 512GB. But I still don't think it's the right fit for your usage.


As for the resale value, it does help but it's mostly a hindrance to being able to sell it. Most people are looking to save when buying used hardware and the base model is so much easier to sell to someone, plus M2 Max performs similarly to the previous year's very much more expensive M1 Ultra. And the M3 is shaping up to be a big jump in performance on the 3nm node. The generational improvements like that don't make future-proofing worth it - get the machine you'd need now.

I'm presently rearranging what "heavy usage" is because to me that doesn't seem heavy at all, that's "doesn't everyone have at least that many tabs while listening to music and having several apps open?"

But I guess not?

I don't have new fangled safari on my old OS, I use firefox at the moment, mainly because it's the least outdated thing that'll run, but I'd be happy to use safari. Wonder if that'd change things a bit- but, kinda looks like that's wishful thinking. I guess it's not a straight comparison because this is m2, however the air has no cooling, which likely doesn't let it make use of as much of that extra m2 goodness.

 

[Hexoic]

Nobody can answer the #2 question but you after you own it and try it. Yes, it can easily be halfway usable. And Yes, it will be an infuriating lag-fest. Those are "eye of the beholder" opinions. Some could argue it's completely usable to them. Others could argue it's almost not usable at all for such tasks and loads.

Don't forget there is a 13" MBpro too.

32GB MBpro 14" in the store right now for $2039. If the intent is to buy one and then another, maybe pool the budgets and buy the one you actually want/need now. Again, it only seems like the "bargain" price of the one being offered by the friend is overriding your own sense of what you need. You already imagine that that one is probably not enough for what you want it to do. For a product I might use for up to 8 years, I wouldn't let price be my main decision driver when the difference between what you actually need vs. this is not really that much (especially if spread over the use life).

And if "stop gap" and "portable" dominate, what if you get a little crazy and buy a Mac Mini and Portable screen? Maybe Mac Mini "Pro" and Portable screen? Base M2 Mac mini with 24GB RAM is $999 new. It should hit the refurb store soon for 10%-15% off. Portable screens cost very little.

Stepping that craziness up a notch, $1529 would get a refurbed M1 MAX Mac Studio with 32GB RAM which should have enough power and memory for all of what you are doing. Pair it with a portable screen for "on the road" needs. Carry it in a Studio Case like this one, portable screen in a dedicated laptop bag/luggage. Or get a case with foam that can be cut to size to get both in one bag. I actually see a bit of this out and about: people bringing these small desktops and portable screens instead of traditional laptops. Why? Presumably they want the added power and/or value of desktop vs. laptop.

That's true, however some things are definable- like does music playback stutter.

Ah, those are US prices. But that's ok because I don't like the shape of the US enter key, even if I could get one from there. You're not wrong though, could get a 14" m2 32gb– €2920 (apple refurb). Like I said, what stopped me was essentially "hm... but m3 isn't *that* far off and then my friend being like hey you want this? and me thinking well.. that poor laptop will creak with what I would do to it but, might let me have a 16"

hah, that is indeed a crazy idea, but kind of creative- and often there'll be a display available where you're going anyway, but wouldn't work for me, I like it to work without a power outlet. The MBP would be plenty of power for me.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

M3 not being far off should play into the attractiveness of a bargain price. In other words, if you want to stall this purchase decision until M3 actually debuts, M2 and M1 Macs should reflect the arrival with some discounts/promotions. Some believe M3 may start hitting as soon as October. If me, that is worth the wait.

On the other hand, M3 Macs will be full price, so there will be no "bargains" there unless you flip the evaluation from price to value and/or "owning latest & greatest"... OR wait several months until M3 Macs start popping up in sales and refurb store... at which time, rumors for M4 will start gaining some steam.

As to the music stutter, I don't recall seeing that anywhere except the reference in this thread. Conceptually, I could imagine it as a possibility but music playback is not that resource demanding, so I suspect something else is going on there. If you go with the friends bargain and you can replicate that music stutter, perhaps leave your music collection on the existing Mac and/or move it to the PC and enjoy your music separate from the Mac doing the heavy lifting during the stopgap period. In other words, after the purchase, you'll have at least 3 computers. Spread the load around instead of asking one to do everything if the one you choose can't quite juggle it all.

 

[Hexoic]

M3 not being far off should play into the attractiveness of a bargain price. In other words, if you want to stall this purchase decision until M3 actually debuts, M2 and M1 Macs should reflect the arrival with some discounts/promotions. Some believe M3 may start hitting as soon as October. If me, that is worth the wait.

On the other hand, M3 Macs will be full price, so there will be no "bargains" there unless you flip the evaluation from price to value and/or "owning latest & greatest"... OR wait several months until M3 Macs start popping up in sales and refurb store... at which time, rumors for M4 will start gaining some steam.

As to the music stutter, I don't recall seeing that anywhere except the reference in this thread. Conceptually, I could imagine it as a possibility but music playback is not that resource demanding, so I suspect something else is going on there. If you go with the friends bargain and you can replicate that music stutter, perhaps leave your music collection on the existing Mac and/or move it to the PC and enjoy your music separate from the Mac doing the heavy lifting during the stopgap period. In other words, after the purchase, you'll have at least 3 computers. Spread the load around instead of asking one to do everything if the one you choose can't quite juggle it all.

Hm, well I can definitely get my itunes to stutter under similar circumstances, albeit more intense 🤷‍♂️

I'm weirdly proud of my old mid-2014 MBP for lasting this long, and apparently semi-keeping up with my workload. Well, not quite, but still. I guess it was future proof for a bout 5 years. I didn't replace it at the time because they all.. seemed to kinda suck? Those were the days of butterfly keyboards failing and super hot intel chips.

edit: also yeah it's kinda the worst time ever to buy an Air it seems, but I definitely wont be getting a m3 Air at full price- and Id likely still want to bump the ram and ssd, which makes it even more expensive. So this would be my only chance at the 13" Air + 16" Pro combination.

 

[ovbacon]

Thank you for the warning.. I can't help but notice that nobody has yet to be that blind apple fanboy here, nobody's been hammering anything, and I'm asking this because the reviews I watched said the same thing. Also, Apple does also sell 16 and 24gb memory versions of this, so it seems like the fanboys could just hype that instead.

I appreciate your long reply. Though, I'd like to point out;

1. I know 32gb would be best for me (at least, in fact)
2. I did keep my current laptop for 8 years, but I am planning on getting a pro later anyway, and this MBA would merely be a "stop gap thing till I replace it with m3 pro" or a "live on as my secondary/travel laptop after I get the pro". My question essentially was "I know this is underpowered for me- but will it scrape by in a halfway usable fashion, or will it be an infuriating lag-fest as soon as those tabs and apps are open, music or video playing, etc."
3. It's not 200 more for double the RAM. The prices I gave compare the retail price and the deal price for the same spec. If I got it with 16gb ram it'd be €650 more, or 400 more if refurb.

I actually do have my own pc build also. It's nice, but not what I'm looking for at the moment.

And I think we agree. I should get a pro. I already saved for it.
But- if I have one macbook, it has to be the 14" for portability. I've seen the 16 and lifted it, it's great I want it on my desk- but I *never* want to carry that bad boy. If I can get a deal on an air that'll do fine-ish and be able to fill the portability role, that'd make the 16" a possibility. Otherwise I wouldn't even consider the air.

It is sounding like it's not going to be up to my workload though- even if I don't do any crazy big photoshop files or video editing while other stuff is open.

I'm a little confused how you started with considering 8gb to saying that you at least need 32.

As much as I think your workflow seems a little erratic and chaotic I highly doubt it would cause trouble with 16gb/512gb.
I have a mini M2 16/512 and run at a minimum 2 different browsers with probably around 15-20 tabs, illustrator and Lightroom all open and at times streaming with a vpn (when streaming I'm not actively doing design work in Ps/Ai but they will be open). I'll be dealing with emails, textedeting, messaging, WhatsApp and other random apps. I don't play music from my mini. When working in any of the Adobe software the files tend to be reasonably involved, psd around 400mb but svg tends to be around 1-2 mb and all design libraries are run of an external ssd.

We also have a M1 MBA 16GB/1TB that is used for our business (with a 32" screen attached for most of the day) that will have probably 30 tabs open regularly (most of the time tabs do not get closed until end of day so they accumulate) and all microsoft office programs and financial applications and a database. Many zoom meetings throughout the day without closing any apps but with sharing screens or other shared data platforms. This one will be streaming spotify and applications never get closed until it gets shut down at night.

Both machines run smooth without any hiccups or lag of any kind, the mini is from this year and the MBA from 2020.

I would not suggest 8mb as that does seem a little low for your indicated use but 16 with 512 or more should do the job fine. Of course with spending more money you can always get a better spec mac and so if money is not the issue than get more but if it is get what does the job. I went from a 2015 27" iMac to the mini and the mini has pleasantly surprised me with how powerful it is.

 

[ignatius345]

and on it goes. If I put things away, I will forget they are there. I will forget to write invoices if numbers isn't open, I have literally lost hundreds of euros because I. will. forget. I will forget to finish a work project if it isn't open. Imagine you have the mental RAM of a goldfish. I do close things I don't need, files I am finished working on, etc. But there's just a lot of stuff that is constantly being worked or listened to/watched. Would you close an app if you knew you'd use it again in a few minutes? Would you close an app if you knew that if you do it'll cost you €200 unless you remember something which you have forgotten multiple times before?

I've heard what you're saying many times before, and I used to internalise this and think I was just unorganised or undisciplined or something. But it's a bit like telling someone "have you tried walking without the crutch? It's so much better" yes I can see that it is, yet if I try that I will fall on my face.

It sounds like you're basically using your dock as a to-do list, or something. It's not about being unorganized or undisiplined -- you're just using a very resource-intensive way to work. If you're committed to the "everything open all the time" workflow, then invest in more RAM (16 GB or even more) and carry on.

For many people (myself included) an Apple Silicon Mac with 8GB of RAM can be usable for quite a bit of real work. Generalizing your experience out to others doesn't really say much because, again, you're stress-testing your system all the time.

 

[AdditionalPylons]

Now for some "think different"...
Does your workflow allow moving some of your tasks to another machine? For instance music, video or browsing to an iPad or iPhone, or another computer?
In my case I regularly feel constrained with 16GB on my day-to-day workhorse, the soon 4-year-old 16" rMBP 2019 (Intel CPU), so I've partly solved it by keeping an AMD Ryzen-powered mini-PC with Ubuntu (which cost me less than €500 used, including 32GB RAM and 512GB SSD).
There may be numerous reasons arguments why this may not be good for you, e.g. if you need everything on one machine for copy and pasting between apps, or if you often need to take everything with you, but I thought I should ask regardless. On the other hand, it can sometimes be handy to have another system with independent screen and audio capabilities.

Unless you can reduce your stated usage somehow I would argue against going for 8GB.
Depending on what you do you may also find that restructuring your workflow can be liberating and make you more productive, as multi-tasking easily can kill focus.

All this said, I'd take DDR5 SO-DIMM slots over Apple's soldered LPDDR5 any day, but sadly that's not an option.

 

[DoctorMesmer]

My advice from (occasionally bitter) experience: don’t buy something just because it’s a bargain. If it’s not what you want, you will always be looking for shortcomings in it. Spend the extra and get what you really want.

However…if you don’t have the extra cash for exactly what you want, follow the advice about app management given previously and you will be absolutely fine with this machine. I have the M1 equivalent (8/512) and had exactly the same misgivings as you but have never looked back. I got mine on the last Prime Day that was worth its salt for £685, pristine in the box with 10 months warranty left!

I typically run Spotify, both Firefox & Safari (I know, I know), Outlook, Word and Logic Pro simultaneously and it has never skipped a beat.

Perhaps you should buy it, try it out and let us know how you got on by posting an update on this thread. If it’s not for you, you could surely resell at practically no loss.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP:

I'll make this simple.
DO NOT buy ANY m-series Mac UNLESS it has 16gb of RAM.

16gb is "the new 8".

Consider yourself as having been duly warned by reading this post.
Buy only 8gb, and you may find yourself becoming frustrated with it sooner rather than later.

 

[Hexoic]

I'm a little confused how you started with considering 8gb to saying that you at least need 32.

As much as I think your workflow seems a little erratic and chaotic I highly doubt it would cause trouble with 16gb/512gb.
I have a mini M2 16/512 and run at a minimum 2 different browsers with probably around 15-20 tabs, illustrator and Lightroom all open and at times streaming with a vpn (when streaming I'm not actively doing design work in Ps/Ai but they will be open). I'll be dealing with emails, textedeting, messaging, WhatsApp and other random apps. I don't play music from my mini. When working in any of the Adobe software the files tend to be reasonably involved, psd around 400mb but svg tends to be around 1-2 mb and all design libraries are run of an external ssd.

We also have a M1 MBA 16GB/1TB that is used for our business (with a 32" screen attached for most of the day) that will have probably 30 tabs open regularly (most of the time tabs do not get closed until end of day so they accumulate) and all microsoft office programs and financial applications and a database. Many zoom meetings throughout the day without closing any apps but with sharing screens or other shared data platforms. This one will be streaming spotify and applications never get closed until it gets shut down at night.

Both machines run smooth without any hiccups or lag of any kind, the mini is from this year and the MBA from 2020.

I would not suggest 8mb as that does seem a little low for your indicated use but 16 with 512 or more should do the job fine. Of course with spending more money you can always get a better spec mac and so if money is not the issue than get more but if it is get what does the job. I went from a 2015 27" iMac to the mini and the mini has pleasantly surprised me with how powerful it is.

Thanks for the experiences with 16gb MBA's- yes I do think 16 would be far more workable- it's what I have now, and sure I'm usually using 12gb+ of swap and riding a memory pressure of 60%+, but surely a lot of the slowness is also because it's a 8yo machine. Yeah I hear unified memory more efficient, but I refuse to believe that it is literally twice the yield, so I consider 32 to be ideal, and more to be optional proofing for the occasional super high loads.

Ok, yall, I'm not gonna do it. 8gb is just not going to cut it.

 

[Hexoic]

OP:

I'll make this simple.
DO NOT buy ANY m-series Mac UNLESS it has 16gb of RAM.

16gb is "the new 8".

Consider yourself as having been duly warned by reading this post.
Buy only 8gb, and you may find yourself becoming frustrated with it sooner rather than later.

Yep, I wont, that's definitely been the consensus, thank you!

 

[throAU]

pretty far

 

[izzy0242mr]

Thank you for the warning.. I can't help but notice that nobody has yet to be that blind apple fanboy here, nobody's been hammering anything, and I'm asking this because the reviews I watched said the same thing. Also, Apple does also sell 16 and 24gb memory versions of this, so it seems like the fanboys could just hype that instead.

I appreciate your long reply. Though, I'd like to point out;

1. I know 32gb would be best for me (at least, in fact)
2. I did keep my current laptop for 8 years, but I am planning on getting a pro later anyway, and this MBA would merely be a "stop gap thing till I replace it with m3 pro" or a "live on as my secondary/travel laptop after I get the pro". My question essentially was "I know this is underpowered for me- but will it scrape by in a halfway usable fashion, or will it be an infuriating lag-fest as soon as those tabs and apps are open, music or video playing, etc."
3. It's not 200 more for double the RAM. The prices I gave compare the retail price and the deal price for the same spec. If I got it with 16gb ram it'd be €650 more, or 400 more if refurb.

I actually do have my own pc build also. It's nice, but not what I'm looking for at the moment.

And I think we agree. I should get a pro. I already saved for it.
But- if I have one macbook, it has to be the 14" for portability. I've seen the 16 and lifted it, it's great I want it on my desk- but I *never* want to carry that bad boy. If I can get a deal on an air that'll do fine-ish and be able to fill the portability role, that'd make the 16" a possibility. Otherwise I wouldn't even consider the air.

It is sounding like it's not going to be up to my workload though- even if I don't do any crazy big photoshop files or video editing while other stuff is open.

I'm not sure what the holdback is on getting a better spec'd machine, but I'm assuming it's money, otherwise you'd just get the expensive laptop?

But since you've said you want to get a MacBook Pro anyways eventually…why not just get a cheaper M1 14" MBP or even an M2 14" MBP? You can get them in pretty good used condition for pretty cheap these days. The M1 14" MBP can be bought for like $1000–1300 used in great condition and that machine comes with 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD minimum. Those Macs will for sure easily last you 8 years or so. I bought one for that exactly reason. (And even if you get one with 32 GB RAM, you'll still be getting a great $$ deal and a super powerful machine.)

If my 2015 13" MBP lasted me until 2022, a M1 14" MBP will certainly last that long, if not longer, with much better performance.

 

[Hexoic]

I'm not sure what the holdback is on getting a better spec'd machine, but I'm assuming it's money, otherwise you'd just get the expensive laptop?

But since you've said you want to get a MacBook Pro anyways eventually…why not just get a cheaper M1 14" MBP or even an M2 14" MBP? You can get them in pretty good used condition for pretty cheap these days. The M1 14" MBP can be bought for like $1000–1300 used in great condition and that machine comes with 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD minimum. Those Macs will for sure easily last you 8 years or so. I bought one for that exactly reason. (And even if you get one with 32 GB RAM, you'll still be getting a great $$ deal and a super powerful machine.)

If my 2015 13" MBP lasted me until 2022, a M1 14" MBP will certainly last that long, if not longer, with much better performance.

Yeah, valid, this was addressed further up, but essentially it was just this one time deal that popped up that made me consider the air. I'd always discounted the air as just not 'pro' enough for me hence the question- yet it seems that's still kinda the case (with 8gb ram anyway).

The other reason is if I get a pro, it'd have to be the 14" because gotta compromise between display and portability. BUT if I had a 13" air, it'd free me up to get a 16" pro because I'd have the air for travel.

My plan at the moment is to wait till the m3 Air drops, see if that's any better (according to rumors the ram is getting a boost even on base model? idk, from the sound of it here that'd make a big difference) and if that is up to my work load, I can either use it for a while and then take my sweet time to get a pro, or sell it and get a pro. Or if the m3 air still isn't much better, I'll either get a refurb/used m2 pro like you said..oooo.. or wait for the m3 pros.. though gosh I really can't wait much longer.

thanks for the input!

 

[throAU]

For what its worth I use a 14" M1 pro as my "do everything except for gaming and VM lab hosting" machine (my VM lab is 64+ GB of workload - when being stingy with memory allocations - and x86 specific) and with 16 GB of RAM it handles a pretty similar workload to your above (including a Windows 11 VM) workload description without breaking a sweat.

Rather than buying an air and a pro, I'd buy a 14" pro (this machine has ruined me for non HDR laptop displays and is only slightly larger/heavier with more ports) and a Mac Studio, but that's just me.

It's not clear what machine you're currently on, but trying to spec for 8 years is just going to result in you having a slow former-top-end-expensive-machine for the last 3-4 years of its life.

Spend significantly less to spec for today+3 years (and get the same/similar CPU/GPU performance anyway), flip it after 4 and buy something that's going to likely be way higher spec than what you get today (with a fresh, newer-tech battery, new CPU instructions, better GPU, faster SSD, faster WIFI, etc.) for less money.

I'd say 16 GB would probably be enough for your workload, 24-32 would likely be plenty.

 

[Hexoic]

For what its worth I use a 14" M1 pro as my "do everything except for gaming and VM lab hosting" machine (my VM lab is 64+ GB of workload - when being stingy with memory allocations - and x86 specific) and with 16 GB of RAM it handles a pretty similar workload to your above (including a Windows 11 VM) workload description without breaking a sweat.

Rather than buying an air and a pro, I'd buy a 14" pro (this machine has ruined me for non HDR laptop displays and is only slightly larger/heavier with more ports) and a Mac Studio, but that's just me.

It's not clear what machine you're currently on, but trying to spec for 8 years is just going to result in you having a slow former-top-end-expensive-machine for the last 3-4 years of its life.

Spend significantly less to spec for today+3 years (and get the same/similar CPU/GPU performance anyway), flip it after 4 and buy something that's going to likely be way higher spec than what you get today (with a fresh, newer-tech battery, new CPU instructions, better GPU, faster SSD, faster WIFI, etc.) for less money.

I'd say 16 GB would probably be enough for your workload, 24-32 would likely be plenty.

oo that is one heck of a VM

the 14" is a solid option, I just wanted to explore the air + pro option and for that I needed to know what a base air could do.

Oh, I wasn't clear- I am not looking to spec for 8 years. I simply have had my current one for 8 years because when I was supposed to be upgrading it, macbooks were a steaming pile of keyboard issues and heat issues and no magsafe and fewer ports and I was like.. wtf is this mess? no thanks. Plus I wasn't exactly rolling in cash at the time so I kept saving up. So when I say future proof I mean more like.. 3-6 years.

I do currently have 16gb of ram, which I know is not the same as unified memory, but still) and it's decently workable but not really enough. half memory pressure and using 6gb of swap right now, and that's after I just restarted and closed things. 32gb minimum. Or a 24 gb air would probably also do it if I also upgraded the ssd, but at that point it's just so close to a pro.