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How foolish would it be to buy an M4 Max MBP for gaming ?

A

Anonymebaba

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 20, 2024
12
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Hi,

So basically i'm now wondering if buying an M4 Max macbook would be enough to play titles such as Crusader Kings 3 (particularly the AGOT mod), Cyberpunk 2077 and the next GTA 6 with high/very high graphics settings.

I was planing on buying either a Razer Blade with a 4090 or a desktop PC but none of these options are available on the market (planned shortage by NVidia ?)

Anyway I'd like to know how the graphics of the new M4 Max chip compares to a 175W laptop 4090 ?
 
You'll be dissapointed.

Sure, some triple A titles will be available natively, I am playing Balders Gate III ATM and looking forward to Cyber Punk to play on my M4 Pro, but you can't play MOST online competitive shooters (Mainly PUBG for me) due ot anticheat. etc.

If you're really only a casual gamer and it's a nice to have, it's a strong MAYBE. But if you are a serious gamer, don't do it.

It's better to have a dedicated gaming desktop and then you can sometime use the MBP for some travel gaming (thats what I do...)

Good luck.
 
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You could build a high-end gaming PC for less than the price of an M2 Max MBP and still have money left over. Also, if you wait until January, you will likely see the RTX 5000-series GPUs hit. Chances are Jensen will announce them during his CES keynote.

While I do have a few games installed on my MBP, I built a gaming PC to handle the vast majority of my gaming. There is another huge advantage associated with having a gaming desktop - the ability to upgrade or replace components as needed. If I need more storage, I can add another drive or replace an existing drive with a higher capacity model. If I need to upgrade RAM or the GPU, that can be done in under 10 minutes. With a Mac, what you purchase is what you have, with no upgrade path beyond purchasing a new model with the specs you are targeting.

As far as GTA 6 goes, nobody outside of the development team could even try to assess its potential performance regardless of OS or hardware. Besides that, it will only be releasing on PS5 and XBox Series X/S in Fall of 2025.
 
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Anonymebaba said:
Hi,

So basically i'm now wondering if buying an M4 Max macbook would be enough to play titles such as Crusader Kings 3 (particularly the AGOT mod), Cyberpunk 2077 and the next GTA 6 with high/very high graphics settings.

I was planing on buying either a Razer Blade with a 4090 or a desktop PC but none of these options are available on the market (planned shortage by NVidia ?)

Anyway I'd like to know how the graphics of the new M4 Max chip compares to a 175W laptop 4090 ?
Click to expand...
the graphics performance is comparable with the laptop 4090 for sure but some games may not be available on the macbook.
if you don't think u'll be playing any windows exclusive games then you can get the mac
 
frogleader12 said:
the graphics performance is comparable with the laptop 4090 for sure but some games may not be available on the macbook.
if you don't think u'll be playing any windows exclusive games then you can get the mac
Click to expand...
I don't want to offend you, but that should read but most games are not available on the macbook (or to be more precise: most AAA games on all Apple computers).
 
frogleader12 said:
the graphics performance is comparable with the laptop 4090 for sure but some games may not be available on the macbook.
if you don't think u'll be playing any windows exclusive games then you can get the mac
Click to expand...
well if the performance is close to a 4090 you're giving me even more reason to go for it 😂. By the way, i'm quite confident in Crossover or other ways to play games (i basically play only offline games)
 
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In Australia you can get an Omen from HP for 36% off retail (or what they claim is retail). But ring them and ask for a deal, they easily beat their advertised web prices. I haven't checked other brands but I doubt you're in Australia.

HP OMEN 17.3 inch Gaming Laptop 17-ck2039TX, Black

Maximize gaming power with the OMEN range featuring a large display for the most immersive gaming experience.

• 13th Generation Intel® Core™ i9 processor
• Windows 11 Home
• 17.3" diagonal, QHD (2560 x 1440), 240 Hz, 3 ms response time
• NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 4090
• 32 GB DDR5-5600 RAM
• 2 TB SSD Hard Drive
• B&O Speakers, Full-size, 4-zone RGB backlit keyboard, 720p HD camera

This notebook is about the price of a 10% discounted Mac Pro m4 binned max with 1 TB/32 GB RAM. You can easily upgrade the RAM yourself in these, and the drive, and replace the key hardware easily, such as WiFi etc.

I've bought a M4 Max 40 core but forget it for games. Go the PC. And that computer is supported well too. It would outperform the my M4 Max 40 in many rendering tasks. Its disadvantage is Windows and it lacks the mac OS. But that's it's strength for a game player.
 
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Anonymebaba said:
well if the performance is close to a 4090 you're giving me even more reason to go for it 😂. By the way, i'm quite confident in Crossover or other ways to play games (i basically play only offline games)
Click to expand...
It’s not even close to a 4090. Just tried with Satisfactory and I went from a glitch free, roughly 80fps max at ultra settings on a Windows 11 RTX4070 laptop, to low settings and continual frame rate hitches on my M4 Pro.
 
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PBG4 Dude said:
It’s not even close to a 4090. Just tried with Satisfactory and I went from a glitch free, roughly 80fps max at ultra settings on a Windows 11 RTX4070 laptop, to low settings and continual frame rate hitches on my M4 Pro.
Click to expand...
depends on the game

resident evil iirc does get comparable performance

but yeah get windows if you serious gamin
 
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It's great that Apple now have Thunderbolt 5. For PC notebooks, its an indictment of them that so few have a Thunderbolt 5 port. But I know a Razor does. But then - there are no T-5 PCI external chassis yet. I am unsure if T-4 would bottleneck a game, when using an external GPU in a T-4 PCI chassis. But I reckon that method would provide better game play because I think that with a gaming PC notebook they need to be connected to an external power to play for more than half an hour or at full frame rates. If 4090s are not around in notebooks, then consider that method? Also the memory inside a notebook 4090 seems capped at 16 GB. While PCI cards can much have more, and are faster. Mac M (later gens maybe) GPUs can access at least 36 GB I think ... but of course, Apple doesn't get much porting from game developers.

Probably one of the dummest things Apple ever did was allow their the Halo game company Bungie to be purchased by Microsoft, and Halo became a foundation of the X-Box. A total lack of vision from Apple when that happened and it proved that Apple hadn't even tried to be player in the game space. There is no business case why they did not. Or for that matter, they could have had a powerful game console - or perhaps, an allegiance with Sony, who had their feet trodden on by the M$ X-Box. Didn't one of the Sony Play stations use a PowerPC chip? I wonder what a Playstation 6 would be like with an M6 Max processor? And what the Mac game space might be like with X-Box Sony licensed games some time after that? There are many Playstation enthusiasts who do not care for the X-Box. Which is entirely illogical but then we are humans!

Maybe Apple does care for iphones and iPads though, but I am even more ignorant about that tiny touch screen game space than mainstream gaming.

While I would like to try a game on the M4 Max I am afraid of the time wasting ... the best games are designed never to be finished. My OLED TV would be cool (75" G3 LG) but my wife would be red hot about it ...

And my monitor is probably 30 Hz ...
 
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PC all the way. Contrary to the same old spin… again… Apple is NOT serious about gaming. Why put an emulation layer in to run PC games slower than running them as fast as they will go on the actual hardware?

If you want a little macOS too, take your MBpro budget, buy yourself a great gaming PC and maybe a refurb/used Mac Mini. It can easily cover both.
 
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HobeSoundDarryl said:
PC all the way. Contrary to the same old spin… again… Apple is NOT serious about gaming. Why put an emulation layer in to run PC games slower than running them as fast as they will go on the actual hardware?

If you want a little macOS too, take your MBpro budget, buy yourself a great gaming PC and maybe a refurb/used Mac Mini. It can easily cover both.
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Sorry but I'll debate emotionally.

Gaming PCs are not cheap. But X-boxes are. So too Playstations. They are the low cost way. OK you can build one up but a 4080 itself will be over $1,000. Most I've seen have coloured water coolers, fancy RAM cards with heat sinks, and lots of water radiators feeding to banks of huge illuminated fans. And of course sophisticated light shows. Go the copper piping, they look the goods.

ok buy a used Mac Pro 7,1 and run it on Windows for games!! They are cheap as and with some knowledge will run Windows. An new HP 7000 equivalent workstation with half the cores and bit over half the speed will cost two to three times as much?

And an external 4080 will beat any notebook 4090. So buy an external case for $250 or less, and the whole cost is around $1,300. And buy an notebook with thunderbolt 4 and a long battery life Ryzen CPU. Play the light games when one is away from one's GPU. You could also then get a real notebook, not a flattened brick which some gaming notebooks resemble.
 
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Anonymebaba said:
Hi,

So basically i'm now wondering if buying an M4 Max macbook would be enough to play titles such as Crusader Kings 3 (particularly the AGOT mod), Cyberpunk 2077 and the next GTA 6 with high/very high graphics settings.

I was planing on buying either a Razer Blade with a 4090 or a desktop PC but none of these options are available on the market (planned shortage by NVidia ?)

Anyway I'd like to know how the graphics of the new M4 Max chip compares to a 175W laptop 4090 ?
Click to expand...

As someone sort of doing this...

For gaming only - incredibly stupid. Just buy the gaming laptop (or even better, desktop).

Speccing up to a max for gaming on the side when you run macOS anyway (instead of buying two machines)? not so stupid (which is one of the reasons amongst others I justified a max - the other being needing/wanting 64 GB of RAM for VMs, docker, AI, etc.).

Gaming specifically a laptop 4090 will be somewhat faster. Certainly likely less hitches/stutters, etc. as the game is optimised for it and not running via emulation/crossover/etc. AI wise, the Max has more VRAM available than a 4090 and can handle bigger models. The laws of physics will come into play here, you're just not going to get 4090 @ 175w performance out of a thin and light machine like the MacBook Pro.

Specific game comments:
Crusader kings 3 = easy (ran on my M1 Pro just fine)
Cyberpunk 2077 = will run decently, that can run on m4 base in reduced detail
GTA6 = who knows, its not out yet.


So, whilst I wouldn't buy a Max as a gaming focused device, if you want to so SOME gaming and want a kick-ass machine for work, sure - go for it. The situation may also improve, but I wouldn't buy based on that specifically.

Me? I don't want Windows in my house so I've decided not to more gaming PCs (i.e., instead of having a Mac and desktop PC, I've increased the Mac spec a bit and not buying a PC), between the M4 Max and the PS5, I should have enough selection to keep me occupied with my increasingly limited spare time.

You can do it, you just need to be aware of the compromises, not everything will be available, etc.

But you do get an awesome Mac to run for everything else. Can't overstate how nice it is having no ram shortages and blistering performance for everything else.
 
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HobeSoundDarryl said:
PC all the way. Contrary to the same old spin… again… Apple is NOT serious about gaming. Why put an emulation layer in to run PC games slower than running them as fast as they will go on the actual hardware?
Click to expand...

Because sometimes you want a Mac and don't want to buy two machines... and gaming is something that is not as critical? I'd rather have a much nicer Mac to run SOME games on than a less powerful Mac and a gaming PC, for example.
 
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OP sounds indifferent about Mac vs. PC but clearly wants to play intense “AAA” PC games on whatever he buys. This is not a “which is better?” Or Apple bash needing defense. He’s wondering if he can get maximum PC gaming on a MBpro through PC emulation… but seems as open to buying a PC that won’t need speed-hindering emulation.

IMO: if he also “wants a Mac” I offered the way: build a gaming PC to get his principal itch scratched and maybe add a Mini for “some macOS too.” Else, the main thing he seeks will be lessened in every case depending on emulation vs. running at full throttle. There is no emulator that is as fast as native.

The answer to every “which?” question is not always Mac/Apple… even if it may be the favorite of those chipping in opinions. Mac does NOT do PC gaming as well if that gaming needs an emulator. Mac does lots of other stuff quite well but OP didn’t ask for those benefits. The Corp is richest in the world. It doesn’t need us consumers working to jam square pegs into round holes on their behalf. OP needs a PC for PC gaming, NOT a MBpro running PC emulation for PC gaming.

If OP “sometimes wants some macOS too,” add a Mac Mini or a cheaper used Mac to his toolbox. Else, if it’s PC gaming and only PC gaming, the best choice- for OPs stated wants- is quite obvious.
 
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AndyMacAndMic said:
Yes, but it seems that is not what the OP wants.
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I wasn't referring to what the OP wants, I was answering a question elsewhere in thread.

HobeSoundDarryl said:
OP sounds indifferent about Mac vs. PC but clearly wants to play intense “AAA” PC games on whatever he buys. This is not a “which is better?” Or Apple bash needing defense. He’s wondering if he can get maximum PC gaming on a MBpro through PC emulation… but seems as open to buying a PC that won’t need speed-hindering emulation.
Click to expand...

Calm down...

First thing I said is buying a Max for gaming only is "incredibly stupid", and explained the only reasons somebody might consider it. As more people read these threads than the original poster.

The OP should buy a PC.
 
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There are maybe….what? Half a dozen true AAA games out for Mac? On the other hand, it really all comes down to what kind of games you play, I like indie games (and a few older ports), and the ones I like just happen to run just fine on my Mac. My gaming needs are met.
 
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Melbourne Park said:
what is crossover? does it require parallels and windows?
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Crossover is a commercial product based on WINE, and the developer employs a bunch of Wine developers. WINE is the open source project that Valve uses to build Proton Windows emulation for the steam deck and linux users. It's also what Apple's new game porting toolkit is based on.

It runs windows apps/games without a windows VM, by translating or emulating the windows APIs.

It creates a virtual C drive on your Mac and runs Windows stuff from there.

When it works, it works faster than trying to run stuff in a Windows VM, but not everything works. And the stuff that works may not work as well.

The situation is getting better as developers are often trying to make sure their Windows games are easy to port to Linux via using WINE (which in turn makes them more likely to work with Crossover, apple's game porting toolkit, WINE, etc.) but its not 100%. Not even close.

Other options you can try are Heroic game launcher (free) which has a semblance of built in WINE/Game porting toolkit support for installing Windows games, but Crossover is perhaps better supported as it has paid developers actually focused on trying to make new stuff work in it. If you can afford it, it's a way to give back to the WINE project.


As above though, unless you have some other serious reason to buy a Mac - it's not ideal for gaming at all. If a majority of your purchasing decision rests on running games, buy a Windows machine because whatever way you slice it, gaming on a Mac will involve compromises, at least for the foreseeable future - whether it is convenience in making a game work, performance quirks that may not exist in the game when running natively under windows, etc.

Oh also - if you're into competitive online multiplayer - a lot of third party anti-cheat software (basically anything that would install a kernel level anti cheat driver in windows) WILL NOT WORK under emulation, so there is that. I wouldn't even consider it unless you're willing to give up a lot of online multiplayer stuff.
 
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