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macrumor2018

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 19, 2018
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The 2013 Mac Pro is still on the market, being sold by Apple. I know Apple has pretty much never dropped software updates for devices less than 3 from the time taken off the market (with the exception of Xserve G5) so it should get macOS updates until 2022.

Does this mean, in your opinion, that most 2013 Macs will be supported until then? At the time it seemed too good to be true but given recent years and what has happened with 2007 macs running the last release of OSX it seems logical.
 

AidenShaw

macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
18,667
4,677
The Peninsula
The 2013 Mac Pro is still on the market, being sold by Apple. I know Apple has pretty much never dropped software updates for devices less than 3 from the time taken off the market (with the exception of Xserve G5) so it should get macOS updates until 2022.

Does this mean, in your opinion, that most 2013 Macs will be supported until then? At the time it seemed too good to be true but given recent years and what has happened with 2007 macs running the last release of OSX it seems logical.
Has Apple even fixed the GPU problems from day 1 on that system?
 

mikehalloran

macrumors 68020
Oct 14, 2018
2,239
666
The Sillie Con Valley
Has Apple even fixed the GPU problems from day 1 on that system?
Long time ago.

Many were fixed under warranty. Heat is the issue.

The D300 was most problematic but Apple doesn't offer those anymore. Many had issues with the D500 & D700 which are still available.

The 2013–2015 were under a silent recall till May 2018 for this.

https://hothardware.com/news/apple-quietly-recalls-2013-mac-pros-due-to-defective-amd-firepro-gpus

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The 2013 Mac Pro is still on the market, being sold by Apple. I know Apple has pretty much never dropped software updates for devices less than 3 from the time taken off the market (with the exception of Xserve G5) so it should get macOS updates until 2022.

Does this mean, in your opinion, that most 2013 Macs will be supported until then? At the time it seemed too good to be true but given recent years and what has happened with 2007 macs running the last release of OSX it seems logical.
Apple is required to support security updates for three years after the last new one is sold per California law. They do not have to provide OS upgrades but I know of no technical reason why they would be incompatible until the OS requires Metal 2 which is not expected for a few years.
 
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Slash-2CPU

macrumors 6502
Dec 14, 2016
404
268
5-7 years of OS support after manufacturing stops. After that, 1-3 years of security updates to that last supported OS.

5 years of parts availability and factory repair service after manufacturing stops.
 
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jscipione

macrumors 6502
Mar 27, 2017
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Typically 7 years after model is no longer sold so 7 more years for the cylinder Mac Pro assuming the modular Mac Pro ships this year. I have to say that the 2010 Mac Pro support has been great thus far.
 

macrumor2018

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 19, 2018
63
43
Typically 7 years after model is no longer sold so 7 more years for the cylinder Mac Pro assuming the modular Mac Pro ships this year. I have to say that the 2010 Mac Pro support has been great thus far.

I thought it was a minimum of 3 years after a Mac was taken off the market. I believe this has always held true with one exception: Xserve G5
 

bsbeamer

macrumors 601
Sep 19, 2012
4,313
2,713
See this thread:
 

MisterAndrew

macrumors 68030
Sep 15, 2015
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Portland, Ore.
The 2013 will probably see 2 more OS updates past Big Sur unless there is a serious CPU vulnerability discovered that requires a microcode update that causes Apple to end support earlier. I don't think anyone knows for sure when Apple will stop selling the 2019. Cook stated 2 years for the Apple Silicon transition so if we assume it is the last Mac to be replaced then that would be 2022, so probably 2025 or so for OS updates and a couple more years for security updates.
 

jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,854
4,594
My guess it would be until 2022 or so. The Mac Pros came out in 2013 and general availability was 2014. So add approximately 7 years and you get 2021-2022. Support for 8-9 years seems adequate for a CPU introduced in 2013.
 

jscipione

macrumors 6502
Mar 27, 2017
429
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Big Sur is the last release for the Mac Pro 6,1. Apple is cutting off by year so this year the 2012 Macs got cutoff next year the 2013 Macs are on the chopping block.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,492
4,052
My guess it would be until 2022 or so. The Mac Pros came out in 2013 and general availability was 2014. So add approximately 7 years and you get 2021-2022.

That is not how Apple's Vintage and Obsolete policy works. It happens to appear to work something like that when Apple superseded almost all Mac models on about a 8-14 months cadence, but that is not what the policy says.

"... or Mac products may obtain service and parts from Apple or Apple service providers for 5 years after the product is no longer sold—or longer, where required by law. ..."

The countdown clock is started when Apple stops selling it. Not it becomes generally available. At end of sales lifetime (or very often end of manufacturing which lines up with end of sales) is when Apple starts backing away.

For the Mac Pro 2013 Apple was shooting themselves in the foot by leaving the product comatose for so long. The Vintage countdown didn't effectively start until November 2019. Which means there is at least another five years ( 2024 ). There is much hand waving that this is "only hardware". Apple doesn't do macOS updates for things that are on the Obsolete list. They often don't do them for some things on the Vintage list. People trying flap their arms trying to find corner cases of x and y that got an update while on vintage ... blah blah blah. The Obsolete policy is meausered in years. The 'end sales date' is effectively measured in months. ( so things get tossed onto the Vintage list at various times of the year. While the macOS roll out date is pretty much end of Sept - early October. One moves around while the other doesn't which gets some slop. in the last cut off iteration if too close to a macOS roll out date. ).

macOS is licensed coupled to the hardware. Apple will have some problems in court hand waving about how there are uber super coupled when it has to do with the license but complete decoupled when it comes to support. A contract when connivence for them and not a contract when need to step up to their obligations.


Is transition to ARM may turn out to shorten it. Probably not dramatically. If Apple is consistent they won't start the "countdown" clock on macOS x86_64 until the stop sales of all x86_64 systems. That may run on a shorter count down ( 3 years instead of 5. ) , but that should be enough time for the MP 2013 to "run out the clock". ( 2022 + 3 (or 5) is 2025-2027 )

This may consist of just major security fixes toward the end but pretty good chance will get something to keep the systems operational until Apple plugs the plug on time expectation they set.



Support for 8-9 years seems adequate for a CPU introduced in 2013.

If Apple has updated back in 2017 then 2022 would have been the end. However, they were still hitting the "snooze' bar in April 2017.
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Big Sur is the last release for the Mac Pro 6,1. Apple is cutting off by year so this year the 2012 Macs got cutoff next year the 2013 Macs are on the chopping block.

Not really. The only 2012 Macs really left was the MBP 2012 13" non retina which was on extended life support. The other 2012 stuff has been on Vintage/Obsolete. Dropping off now isn't really new or cutting off a year. There were a few "close so throw a lifeline " extensions last year so the culling is a bit bigger this year.
 
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MisterAndrew

macrumors 68030
Sep 15, 2015
2,895
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Portland, Ore.
Yeah, the 2013's end of support clock started in December last year. The 2012 MacBook Pro was sold by Apple until November 2016. They also sold the 2012 Mac mini brand new in the clearance section of the Apple Store in 2016. I know because I bought one. So that's 3 years worth of OS releases for those Macs after they were last sold -> 17, 18, and 19. For the 2013 Mac Pro that would be 20, 21, and 22. Of course it's always hard to say what Apple is going to do. The 2010/2012 Mac Pro received OS releases all the way to 2018 even though it was discontinued in 2013 (from Snow Leopard to Mojave), and of course on the low end of the support spectrum the 2005 Power Mac G5 only received 1 additional OS release. I think unless there's a software change that requires instructions the 2013's CPUs don't have (like AVX2) or a major security vulnerability is discovered that requires a microcode fix (that Intel will not issue) then I don't see a compelling reason for Apple to end support early. Especially given the fact Apple sold thousands of these Mac Pros to large companies through last year.
 
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th0masp

macrumors 6502a
Mar 16, 2015
848
514
Hmmm, I won't be surprised if Big Sur turns out to be the last one. I wouldn't rely too much on Apple to follow some established procedure in this case since selling the machine unchanged for half a decade in itself is unusual enough. Perhaps they will exclude it at some point in the near future but resort to issuing MP-specific security patches for any upcoming vulnerabilities for a while to fulfill the most basic contractual obligations for support and warranty.

It would be nice of course if it really were to stay around for several more releases to come but between Intel dropping support for the CPUs and Apple moving to a new platform I can easily see it being left behind overnight.

Not that I personally care much. Lack of Dashboard and 32bits support in newer releases have locked me into Mojave for good I think. That should be good to go until the system has turned proper vintage. Then it will turn into an unusal looking bookend on the shelf. ;)
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,437
13,581
Yeah, the 2013's end of support clock started in December last year. The 2012 MacBook Pro was sold by Apple until November 2016. They also sold the 2012 Mac mini brand new in the clearance section of the Apple Store in 2016. I know because I bought one. So that's 3 years worth of OS releases for those Macs after they were last sold -> 17, 18, and 19. For the 2013 Mac Pro that would be 20, 21, and 22. Of course it's always hard to say what Apple is going to do. The 2010/2012 Mac Pro received OS releases all the way to 2018 even though it was discontinued in 2013 (from Snow Leopard to Mojave), and of course on the low end of the support spectrum the 2005 Power Mac G5 only received 1 additional OS release. I think unless there's a software change that requires instructions the 2013's CPUs don't have (like AVX2) or a major security vulnerability is discovered that requires a microcode fix (that Intel will not issue) then I don't see a compelling reason for Apple to end support early. Especially given the fact Apple sold thousands of these Mac Pros to large companies through last year.
I was surprised to see that macOS 11 still boots on Macs without AVX (a C2D Penryn like the Xeon on MP3,1 with a METAL supported GPU can boot macOS 11 without patches*) until I saw the Rosetta 2 and Apple Silicon videos - Rosetta 2 don't support AVX instructions at all. That's probably why Apple didn't enforced AVX instructions with Big Sur and won't use it system wide, just using it where it really makes sense, like VideoToolbox, and providing workarounds when not available.

* Telemetry plug-in needs to be removed first, as always.
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Rosetta translates all x86_64 instructions, but it doesn’t support the execution of some newer instruction sets and processor features, such as AVX, AVX2, and AVX512 vector instructions. If you include these newer instructions in your code, execute them only after verifying that they are available. For example, to determine if AVX512 vector instructions are available, use the sysctlbyname function to check the hw.optional.avx512f attribute.​
 
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tsialex

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R3k

macrumors 68000
Sep 7, 2011
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I’d be shocked if the current pro isn’t supported until at least 2025.

I think it'll have a reasonable window of support. My concern is how will the performance be in later versions of MacOS as Apple increasingly optimize for ARM and making Intel optimization of X86 less of a priority
 

snowyjoey

Suspended
Jan 15, 2012
40
4
Sorry to revive this, but I have read through the many detailed posts above I am still not clear.
I have been offered a 2013 MBP, very nice price and spec, from a friend. I am trying to work out how long until it becomes unusable due to security patches and/or OS updates.
Does anyone know, now that it's 2022, a more accurate guess as to when the 2013 MBP will be unsafe to use/impossible to upgrade OS?
thanks
 

jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,854
4,594
Sorry to revive this, but I have read through the many detailed posts above I am still not clear.
I have been offered a 2013 MBP, very nice price and spec, from a friend. I am trying to work out how long until it becomes unusable due to security patches and/or OS updates.
Does anyone know, now that it's 2022, a more accurate guess as to when the 2013 MBP will be unsafe to use/impossible to upgrade OS?
thanks
The MacBook Pro is a different case than the Mac Pro. The 2013 Mac Pro was still being sold as late as 2019. The 2013 MacBook Pro was discontinued in 2013 or 2014 depending on whether it was introduced early or late in 2013 (there were 2 generations that year).

Apple tends to stop supporting Macs with new OS and later security updates for 4-6 years after being discontinued. The last OS for the early 2013 MBP is Catalina. The last OS for the late 2013 MBP is Big Sur. The 2013 Mac Pro is still compatible with Monterey.
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,437
13,581
The MacBook Pro is a different case than the Mac Pro. The 2013 Mac Pro was still being sold as late as 2019. The 2013 MacBook Pro was discontinued in 2013 or 2014 depending on whether it was introduced early or late in 2013 (there were 2 generations that year).

Apple tends to stop supporting Macs with new OS and later security updates for 4-6 years after being discontinued. The last OS for the early 2013 MBP is Catalina. The last OS for the late 2013 MBP is Big Sur. The 2013 Mac Pro is still compatible with Monterey.
Just to complete the answer, Catalina will have the last Security Update around September/October this year, while Big Sur will be supported until next year.

Apple support the current macOS release (Monterey right now) and the two past ones (Big Sur and Catalina).

A MacBook Pro early-2013 will have the last Security Update this year, while a late-2013 one will have the last one next year.
 
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