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BanjoDudeAhoy

macrumors 6502a
Aug 3, 2020
921
1,624
Power supplies sometimes do not age well. That's why I always preferred devices with a discrete PS. My oldest piece of electronics is my Heathkit digital clock. It's going to be 52 next year. Running pretty much continuously. With circuit traces a whole lot wider than they are now, older chips last virtually forever. :)
View attachment 2252377
That's strangely beautiful.
I can't help imagining a wooden MacBook now :D
 

LambdaTheImpossible

macrumors regular
Aug 22, 2023
114
512
Power supplies sometimes do not age well. That's why I always preferred devices with a discrete PS. My oldest piece of electronics is my Heathkit digital clock. It's going to be 52 next year. Running pretty much continuously. With circuit traces a whole lot wider than they are now, older chips last virtually forever. :)
View attachment 2252377
This is a fine example of survivor bias which is why it's meaningless to reason about longevity of electronics without some data to back it up.

The Heathkit in question has a number of failure modes, which you've dodged or talked around. Firstly, the usual problem is the idiot who assembled it in the first place but that's an easy one to avoid (congratulations!). Secondly, Heathkit wasn't well known for picking the highest quality parts, particularly filter capacitors in the power supplies. Thirdly, the Beckman Panaplex displays they contain wear out reliably within 10-15 years with continuous use, symptomatic with emission dropping and/or segments crapping out. They also have a shelf life. On that basis, I'm also a little suspicious that this has been run continuously for 52 years. I've had numerous things pass through my hands and replaced numerous SP-352's in my time. I think the realistic life for one of those clocks, bar the outliers was more around the 5-8 year mark. The differentiating factor is it's actually quite easy to do component level repair on them (apart from the infernal ASIC that runs the show). I've got some electronic test gear which is 50-60 years old that works fine. It has been repaired but what is working now is probably 0.01% of the total items manufactured

With respect to somewhat more modern electronics, they have different failure modes but are generally a hell of a lot more reliable than anything we had historically but are more complicated. So the outcome is the roughly the same failure distribution. Really the statement with all electronics is worth considering:

Early failures - there will be a small number of outlying early failures ... <5 years

Mid-life failures - most failures happen here ... 5-8 years

Late failures - there are a small number of devices that survive this long ... >8 years

We love to talk about the very late failures though. They are merely an outlier on a pile of bodies a mile deep though.

What is worth bearing in mind is the expected warrantied lifespan of the device with the insurance (AppleCare). The insurance company wouldn't insure a device if they didn't think it was profitable. Hence why I buy new things and try and shift my devices after 3 years so the aggregate risk is pushed to someone else to deal with be that the manufacturer for early failures or the second owner for anything else.
 

Crowbot

macrumors 68000
May 29, 2018
1,835
4,150
NYC
This is a fine example of survivor bias which is why it's meaningless to reason about longevity of electronics without some data to back it up.

The Heathkit in question has a number of failure modes, which you've dodged or talked around. Firstly, the usual problem is the idiot who assembled it in the first place but that's an easy one to avoid (congratulations!). Secondly, Heathkit wasn't well known for picking the highest quality parts, particularly filter capacitors in the power supplies. Thirdly, the Beckman Panaplex displays they contain wear out reliably within 10-15 years with continuous use, symptomatic with emission dropping and/or segments crapping out. They also have a shelf life. On that basis, I'm also a little suspicious that this has been run continuously for 52 years. I've had numerous things pass through my hands and replaced numerous SP-352's in my time. I think the realistic life for one of those clocks, bar the outliers was more around the 5-8 year mark. The differentiating factor is it's actually quite easy to do component level repair on them (apart from the infernal ASIC that runs the show). I've got some electronic test gear which is 50-60 years old that works fine. It has been repaired but what is working now is probably 0.01% of the total items manufactured

With respect to somewhat more modern electronics, they have different failure modes but are generally a hell of a lot more reliable than anything we had historically but are more complicated. So the outcome is the roughly the same failure distribution. Really the statement with all electronics is worth considering:

Early failures - there will be a small number of outlying early failures ... <5 years

Mid-life failures - most failures happen here ... 5-8 years

Late failures - there are a small number of devices that survive this long ... >8 years

We love to talk about the very late failures though. They are merely an outlier on a pile of bodies a mile deep though.

What is worth bearing in mind is the expected warrantied lifespan of the device with the insurance (AppleCare). The insurance company wouldn't insure a device if they didn't think it was profitable. Hence why I buy new things and try and shift my devices after 3 years so the aggregate risk is pushed to someone else to deal with be that the manufacturer for early failures or the second owner for anything else.
Yeah, I was a medical equipment service tech for 35 years so I know just a bit about failure modes.

Firstly, I was the idiot who assembled it and while I made several mistakes (usually diode polarity) I got it working. Mistakes are how we learn, sometimes.

Second, Heathkit used consumer quality parts. Not NASA quality but good enough.

So you're suspicious of my claim. I don't know what to say to that. OK, it was off for a few days while I went on vacation but it has indeed been my clock for all those years. The displays are in good shape except for the leftmost segments sometimes not coming on.

Otherwise, thanks for the education.
 
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LambdaTheImpossible

macrumors regular
Aug 22, 2023
114
512
Yeah, I was a medical equipment service tech for 35 years so I know just a bit about failure modes.

Firstly, I was the idiot who assembled it and while I made several mistakes (usually diode polarity) I got it working. Mistakes are how we learn, sometimes.

Second, Heathkit used consumer quality parts. Not NASA quality but good enough.

So you're suspicious of my claim. I don't know what to say to that. OK, it was off for a few days while I went on vacation but it has indeed been my clock for all those years. The displays are in good shape except for the leftmost segments sometimes not coming on.

Otherwise, thanks for the education.

That was in no way criticising your build - I suspected you did. Most Heathkits I've had to fix for people were a mess. You avoided that hence the congratulations.

Heathkit used whatever they could get in large quantities cheap. There are some notable steamer parts they shipped over the years. One good find though was in a VTVM which had a 55 year old working electrolytic which was still really good. It stayed in.

Suspicious not totally writing it off. You might have one of the several ones that made it that far. My point is most did not.
 

0339327

Cancelled
Jun 14, 2007
634
1,936
Many thanks Juicy Box. Mine lasted 4 years on my MBP. Never damaged, never dropped. Found it strange that to gave up the ghost.

That is certainly unusual.
I've had a few logic board failures over the years, but they are very few.

I would say that in the 30+ computers I've managed over the past 20 years, I can only recall two logic board failures:

I can distinctly recall a G4 PowerBook logic board failure right before AppleCare expired where they replaced the machine. We also had an Intel iMac with a logic board failure where they sent a repair tech to our office.

Other than that, while we did have one or two hardware issues, but they were with the graphics cards or third-party RAM.

Again, this was over many years and dozens of machines. Mac hardware failure appears to be rather rare.
 
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raythompsontn

macrumors 6502a
Feb 8, 2023
809
1,137
My oldest piece of electronics is my Heathkit digital clock.
I have one of those clocks, the newer model where the display is blue segments.
They also have a shelf life. On that basis, I'm also a little suspicious that this has been run continuously for 52 years
I also have one of those clocks. I bought it the year the wife and I got married. We have used that clock continuously for 47 years. The only time it is off is when we moved and during power outages. I have no reason to not believe 52 years.
 

TechnoMonk

macrumors 68030
Oct 15, 2022
2,609
4,120
What are you using the MBP for? I have fried windows machines in a year and it took a mac mini logic board 3 years before it started frying for same tasks.
 
Last edited:
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gpat

macrumors 68000
Mar 1, 2011
1,932
5,344
Italy
For an MBP that shows no sign of damage, and hasn't be damaged, does anyone know how long the logic board of an MBP should last?

Thanks!

The answer you're seeking is "strongly dependent on the GPU".
I've never seen a laptop with integrated GPU live less than a decade, on the other hand laptops with discrete GPU only last that much if lightly used.
 

spiderman0616

Suspended
Aug 1, 2010
5,670
7,499
Power supplies sometimes do not age well. That's why I always preferred devices with a discrete PS. My oldest piece of electronics is my Heathkit digital clock. It's going to be 52 next year. Running pretty much continuously. With circuit traces a whole lot wider than they are now, older chips last virtually forever. :)
View attachment 2252377
I love it. I had a clock radio when I was a kid that looked a lot like this, and I remember just thinking it was the greatest thing ever. I don't think it was the same brand or anything but it had the same kind of wood finish.
 

CalMin

Contributor
Nov 8, 2007
1,890
3,696
Many thanks Juicy Box. Mine lasted 4 years on my MBP. Never damaged, never dropped. Found it strange that to gave up the ghost.

They make millions of these things. A small percentage of them are bound to fail sooner than others.

It's too bad when it happens though. I remember my very first iPod (circa 2003) failed in month 13 - just out of warranty.
 

HawkTheHusky1902

macrumors 6502a
Jun 26, 2023
666
491
Berlin, Germany
They make millions of these things. A small percentage of them are bound to fail sooner than others.

It's too bad when it happens though. I remember my very first iPod (circa 2003) failed in month 13 - just out of warranty.
My 2010 MBP after 13 years is still working flawalessly, with an ssd and 8gb ram! Even some water damage lol i think. Im typing this on it!
 
Now that is impressive!

My late 2000 iBook G3/466 key lime clamshell (i.e., my avatar) has been running almost non-stop since I bought it, used, in 2007). Its longest, uninterrupted uptime (foiled by a neighbourhood power outage) is somewhere just north of 400 days. I still update Macports on it, test it with the assorted piece of software not intended for it originally, and I‘ve also given it a wealth of upgrades which, together, never turns up anywhere else. :)
 
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HawkTheHusky1902

macrumors 6502a
Jun 26, 2023
666
491
Berlin, Germany
My late 2000 iBook G3/466 key lime clamshell (i.e., my avatar) has been running almost non-stop since I bought it, used, in 2007). Its longest, uninterrupted uptime (foiled by a neighbourhood power outage) is somewhere just north of 400 days. I still update Macports on it, test it with the assorted piece of software not intended for it originally, and I‘ve also given it a wealth of upgrades which, together, never turns up anywhere else. :)
You should use it as a home server maybe...
 

Flowstates

macrumors 6502
Aug 5, 2023
333
397
Screens have been cracked, ports broken. Never did I get issues from my logic board.

But I did never get one of the problematic nVidia Powerbooks.
 

Crowbot

macrumors 68000
May 29, 2018
1,835
4,150
NYC
That must account for butterfly keyboards' success.
I remember that as reported here. It's always painful to watch a company I like try to ignore an obvious problem. We want them to 'fess up and fix it right away. I have to think it would have done wonders for their rep.
 
Its guaranteed life span is determined PRECISELY by that.

In the proximal presence of the unopened product box, pretend you’re on the phone and speak, aloud, something along the lines of “uh-huh… yah i didn’t know they offered AppleCare Ultra now, either! Sure, it was about $250 more, but it’s sort of like back when car companies began offering ‘10-year/100,000km bumper-to-bumper’ warranties. Yup! Yah, so now my Mac’s got coverage from Apple for seven solid years! Right? I know! Hey listen, the ice cream is starting to get crispy in the oven, I’ll call you later…”
 
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