MP 7,1 How Long will Apple Support 7,1 Mac Pro with Mac OS?

[Chevron]

I have been considering buying a 7,1 Mac Pro and am curious how long they might be supported for Mac OS. Of course that means speculation I assume.

I had a 5,1 mac for many years and it got to the stage where the GPU and other hardware needed upgrading to keep up with recent Mac OS updates.

Is there anything to suggest the 7,1 MPs will meet a similar fate?

 

[Matty_TypeR]

All Mac hardware suffers a similar fate at some point, the 5.1 had a long life because apart from the trash can there wasn't a new Mac pro for 7 years. How long OSX will support a 7.1 is hard to say depends how many new versions of the Mac pro are released in the future. especially if Apple decides to drop intel for there own silicon M based CPU/GPU and develops's OSX around it.

One thing is for sure only Apple know.

 

[now i see it]

A machine like the 7,1 doesn’t necessarily need to be on the current OS. Countless Mac Pro users stay at least one version behind and many stay a few versions behind.

The 7,1 definitely has a usable lifespan of at least ten years. After that, the limiting factor will more likely be component longevity, not OS support.

 

[kvic]

Is there anything to suggest the 7,1 MPs will meet a similar fate?

IMO (as I briefly said in another thread months ago), the Classic MP phenomenon (& longevity) is hardly repeatable. It was a once-in-a-lifetime experience that made possible by 1) Apple abandoning Mac Pro market for near a decade 2) Intel's failure in its fabs for nearly as long that tapered growth in x86-64 CPU performance 3) OS/hardware upgrade made possible by Hackintosh for the past three or so years and 4) Apple still providing latest MacOS x86-64 images

Some of these conditions are no longer true. None of these will be likely true in a couple of years time.

For 2019 MP, I think people can expect MacOS x86-64 images available for the next 3 years for sure, and possibly next 5 years.

I believe the more success Apple Silicon Mac Pro to become the faster Intel Mac Pro will be dusted by Apple. That's an interesting catch 22 to watch out for the near future.

 

[m1maverick]

What's important is not when a system was introduced but when it was withdrawn from sale. This may be helpful:

Obtaining service for your Apple product after an expired warranty​

This doesn't say that Apple will provide macOS support for these time frames but I think it reasonable to assume the 7,1 Mac Pro will receive macOS support into the vintage status.

 

[Exit_74]

Imho Apple should be open about supporting intel machines...i didnt ask for their Apple Silicon solution and since they sold a ******** of intel machines we need at least 10 years of support. And what will help with intel Macos support is the last refresh of 7,1 Intel MacPro which is rumoured to release at WWDC but no leaks and info yet...

 

[4wdwrx]

I think they will continue with support for at least 5 years. The real question is how good the support will be.

Most of the software team are transitioned to Apple Silicon development, so the resources for x86 development will be low priority, meaning less new features, more bugs, and longer time between patches.

I have a feeling the likelihood of a 7,1 refresh is low but still possible. I think it will be a low key release however.

 

[prefuse07]

What's important is not when a system was introduced but when it was withdrawn from sale. This may be helpful:

Obtaining service for your Apple product after an expired warranty​

This doesn't say that Apple will provide macOS support for these time frames but I think it reasonable to assume the 7,1 Mac Pro will receive macOS support into the vintage status.

That list of "obsolete" is painful to read, just look at that!

Luckily this community exists, which basically allows us to give them the bird ?

 

[TrevorR90]

That list of "obsolete" is painful to read, just look at that!

Luckily this community exists, which basically allows us to give them the bird ?

It's troublesome to me that a 2015 Imac is already listed as obsolete by Apple. Wow.

 

[kvic]

I have a feeling the likelihood of a 7,1 refresh is low but still possible. I think it will be a low key release however.

The missing refresh is quite the anti climax year to date. Seems apple is confident about its new apple silicon Mac Pro that no extra insurance necessary. But yeah existing intel mp should be well supported for a few years, including likely driver for new Radeon.

 

[deconstruct60]

All Mac hardware suffers a similar fate at some point, the 5.1 had a long life because apart from the trash can there wasn't a new Mac pro for 7 years.

Err no; not because of 7 years gap between 2012 - 2019. The 5,1 got an extended support windows because it was pragmatically sold for 3 years ( 2010 until Q4 2013). that is what got it extended lifetime.

Apple put the 2009 Mac Pro on the Vintage list in 2015 ( sales of 4,1 ended in 2010 + 5 .. 2015 Vintage )

Apple Obsoletes Select Early 2008 to Late 2009 Macs

Apple has updated its vintage and obsolete products list with various older products that have not been manufactured for at least five years,...

www.macrumors.com

went obsolete two years later , but macOS basically ended on the 2015 upgrade cycle. [ Folks hacked around this by doing firmware upgrades to fake that it was a 5,1 but 4,1 was de- supported on schedule. ]

Apple put the 2010 Mac Pro on the Vintage obsolete list in 2017 ( 2012 + 5.... vintage ). OK yes, to some extent this is Apple doing a bit of hand waving because the MP 2013 wasn't a direct replacement by counting the 2012 as something different (even though share model number) . But also entirely indicative that Apple is extending no "favors" of extra long lifetime to Mac Pro just because has Mac Pro label. ( The message was clear "Your 2010 may 'happen to work as being counted as a 2012, but writing is on the wall. " ).

Apple put the 2012 Mac Pro ( same model number as 2010 ; 5,1 ) out to pasture after 10.14 Mojave ( 2018 ) December 2013 + 5 years ..... obsolete December 2018 .

Same pattern. if there was a decent replacement the 2012 might have gotten cut off from macOS 10.14 but Apple did do a slight kick the can there. Technically "last sold" date was in November and 10.14 beta came out in June 2018 and released in Sept 2018. There is some fuzzy parts to very last update because obsolete dates tend to shift around the calendar across products , but the OS updates are now all stuck on September after WWDC so largely fixed in time from last week of Q3 (late Sept) to early November time frame.

Timing wise sometimes some system get one last update on Vintage because dates don't line up well , but by time something is strictly on the obsolete list Apple has stopped doing support. Obsolete + 1 year definately dead.

How long OSX will support a 7.1 is hard to say depends how many new versions of the Mac pro are released in the future. especially if Apple decides to drop intel for there own silicon M based CPU/GPU and develops's OSX around it.

It only takes one new Mac Pro to put the 7,1 (2019) on the "countdown clock" to Vintage/Obsolete. The more important part would be whether Apple stops selling them right away. The 2018 Intel Mini is still for sale almost 1.5 years after the M1 Mini came out. If 7,1 is sold for another 1.5 years then its "countdown clock" won't start during that period.

If Apple releases a "half sized" Mac Pro as the M-series entry as a New Mac Pro and it still has zero 3rd party GPU support, then they may well keep the old Intel one around for a while. ( perhaps with a GPU card bump AMD 6x50 update. ) .

Given how 'stale' the T2 chip is at this point, there probably isn't another Intel model coming ( that might have been a plausible option if it had been done one in 2021, but now it seems late. Not impossible but it would be surprising. )

However, Apple may just immediately 'kill' the 7,1 sales even if don't have a more robust solution.

One thing is for sure only Apple know.

Apple's policies in terms of the hardware are explicitly clear. There is no "only Apple knows the incantation ... " there.

The other complete non-mystery is that Apple largely considers macOS and the Mac hardware as one unit. MacOS is licensed to the Mac Hardware you buy it on. There is no major 'de-coupling' . So if the hardware is 'de-supported' it would be entirely opposite of Apple standard practices that the OS would still be going on that pairing. [ The pre 10.6 (?) days were users could buy new macOS on optical disk or usb drive are long dead. Apple doesn't sell upgrades or 'detached' licenses. ]

Apple does have some wiggle room to drop the macOS upgrades 'early'. Whether they do that or not is debatable.

 

[deconstruct60]

I had a 5,1 mac for many years and it got to the stage where the GPU and other hardware needed upgrading to keep up with recent Mac OS updates.

Is there anything to suggest the 7,1 MPs will meet a similar fate?

Future GPU product upgrades should be in doubt. There is zero support for 3rd party GPUs in macOS on M-series. Apple has had almost 2 years to roll out a solution for that and ... nothing. Maybe they will do a 180 change in direction at WWDC 2022 . I wouldn't bet the farm on it though.

Apple GPU support has historically been driven by new Mac products that had a new GPU in them. The iMac gets a AMD XYZ GPU chip and the Pro can use that later also. Or new Mac Pro's GPU cards is a "hand me down" supported in previous one ( and 'happens to work' for earlier Mac Pros.)

With the Intel Mac line stopping, there is very real possibility that the GPU upgrade train is ending also. Apple has done a range of updates on the Mac Pro 2019 GPU line up. So they did something. That doesn't necessarily they are going to do more. (e.g., AMD 7000 series. )

So that "extra" last iteration the Mac Pro 2012 got with a "Metal supported card" probably won't happen for the 7,1.


If Apple keeps selling the 7,1 after they release a "half sized" Mac Pro M-series then would probably nominal support for this last configuration for a long while. The de-support clock starts when they stop selling it. ( Apple ... retailers may have inventory longer than "End of sale" date Apple uses. )


There probably will be new macOS Intel versions that track some GUI and high level user land library update evolution. But "super nifty" macOS x+1 features probably get restricted to macOS on M-series over time. Apple also announced in 2020 (or 2019?) that they were eventually going to kill of kernel extensions (kext). Decent chance that Intel Macs might get a slight reprieve on that , but over time probably going to see a number of Intel drivers get abandoned.

If your long term Mac Pro 7,1 plan is to only put in additional hardware that exists right now on the market into the system in the future then probably will be support for that. Support for the configurations that exist now they'll track with upgrades. Pragmatically, Apple charges upfront for future macOS updates. So those are probably going to be bounded by the current configurations. ( if Apple released a new MPX module would get support for that also... , but past the end of 2022 to end Q2 2023 I doubt any of those would come. )

if counting on Apple tracking future AMD GPUs from 1-4 years into the future . Or Substantive new updates in the direction that Windows 11 ( and eventual Windows 12) is going . DisplayPort 2.0 . Thunderbolt > 3 . An Afterbuner 2 . Other other newer add-ins , then I wouldn't count on that. [ i.e., if main driver is to get a "future proof" Mac , then there is a disconnect. The 7,1 is a better "fixed time capsule" path system. ]

 

[deconstruct60]

.... Seems apple is confident about its new apple silicon Mac Pro that no extra insurance necessary. But yeah existing intel mp should be well supported for a few years, including likely driver for new Radeon.

new 6x50 Radeons. Perhaps. That would be easy basically addin7g some IDs to the current driver core abilities.
Apple prepping to do 7000 series (RDNA3 ) ? Where is any evidence of that? WWDC 2022 may shine some more light on that. If no signs in the beta macOS I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on those.

 

[kvic]

new 6x50 Radeons. Perhaps. That would be easy basically addin7g some IDs to the current driver core abilities.
Apple prepping to do 7000 series (RDNA3 ) ? Where is any evidence of that? WWDC 2022 may shine some more light on that. If no signs in the beta macOS I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on those.

The interesting guy here is RDNA3 which is scheduled for Q4 2022. People could expect Radeon Pro version mid 2023, and perhaps an Apple version right after that. Similar playbook like RDNA2.

No insider info Apple is going to do it. However, if Apple decides to keep Intel Mac Pro for a few more years, then it's likely than not. Existing Radeon drivers received code commits and version updates in recent Monterey releases. The 12.4 change seems at least in one aspect related to security fix in AMD drivers though. Also, there is ongoing effort to support Blender.

However, though not impossible but appears a bit weird Blender support will require changes to core Radeon drivers. So the other possible explanation in the driver activities is more fundamental changes to old drivers to align with new drivers. Apple is not unknown for performing such clean-up. This indicates they may still need new Radeon's.

 

[deconstruct60]

Imho Apple should be open about supporting intel machines...i didnt ask for their Apple Silicon solution and since they sold a ******** of intel machines we need at least 10 years of support.

Apple's hardware support policies are explicit. And it is no where near a "10 year" commitment.

Apple goes 5-7 years past end of sale/availability (from Apple). The software isn't mentioned but Apple also doesn't go to great lengths to decouple those two when viewing them as a "product".

The only way to get to ten years is for the system to sell without being replaced for a relatively long time and start the "count" from the introduction (not the end) of the system to the market. The other 'trick' is to count the security patches that the n-1 and n-2 versions of macOS get.

The "patched older versions" long , long after the end of the new Intel products I wouldn't bet on. The pot of money Apple has to spend on Intel updates is going to shrink after they stop sales of all Intel models. ( actually probably shrinking now, but most definitely after all sales stop. ) It is already the case that Apple's slacking on some timely security updates. That is only going to get worse over time on the Intel side.

So "tens years " from the last 6 months of sales is likely a stretch. At the end would be getting very narrow ("I guess we got to" dribbles from Apple). Technically, an update but only because there is a some embarrassing security hole they are trying to close ( at lowest cost they can get away with. ). if the upgrade pot runs dry they'll just declare themselves done early though on those ( n-1 , n-2 updates).

And what will help with intel Macos support is the last refresh of 7,1 Intel MacPro which is rumoured to release at WWDC but no leaks and info yet...

A new Mac Pro is like a broken analog clock prediction for WWDC. Every Q1 each year there is upsell of "going to be a Mac Pro at WWDC" rumors. Like an analog clock they tend of be a "right time twice a day" in accuracy.

If Apple continues to sell the 7,1, that is what will help (refresh or not).


The old "Mac Pro update to Ice Lake SP class die" rumor (e.g., a W3300 ) is pretty doubtful at this point. (waiting until Sapphire rapids workstation ships is likely too long into the future ) . A MPX only update to a some 6000 series AMD GPUs. That is doable but doesn't really add much momentum to the 7,1. ( could be a symbolic suggestion that will sell the 7,1 along side a later Mac Pro for a while; 1-2 years. ) The 7,1 needs a price cut to be competitive (eg., get Intel to drop the "> 1TB RAM tax" , more than a new relatively expensive GPU.

 

[deconstruct60]

The interesting guy here is RDNA3 which is scheduled for Q4 2022. People could expect Radeon Pro version mid 2023, and perhaps an Apple version right after that. Similar playbook like RDNA2.

Why would AMD consider dropping a custom RNDA3 into a "dead" Intel Mac Pro platform worth their time and effort in 2H23 ( perhaps the year after Intel Mac 'died'. ) ? AMD will have MI300 sales to purse in 2H23. Even more so if Apple is still blocking AMD GPU from interacting with M-series Macs.

if Apple releases a Mac Pro M-series in December 2022 ... again almost a half year later then putting effort into the Mac Pro 2019? ( as opposed say a Mac Studio 2023 update. )

No insider info Apple is going to do it. However, if Apple decides to keep Intel Mac Pro for a few more years, then it's likely than not.

Apple 'sat' on the Mac Pro 2013 for 6 years with zero hardware changes. The 2012 was a minor CPU bump on the same "designed in 2008" platform from 2010 (just flip flop this time).

Unless Apple is refreshing the core platform to PCI-e v5, it won't be competitive in "few more years". An AMD 7000 class (especially at the top end) is going to loose substantive "value features" coupled to a PCI-e v3 bus. ( parity of Ryzen 7000 and RTX 7000 on PCI-e v5 is probably going to exhibit some substantive synergies. )

Existing Radeon drivers received code commits and version updates in recent Monterey releases. The 12.4 change seems at least in one aspect related to security fix in AMD drivers though. Also, there is ongoing effort to support Blender.

Fixing bugs and supporting current configurations is different that porting to new hardware. If the AMD GPUs are confined to a shrinking pool of Intel Macs there are far better things for AMD to spend money on.
(And Apple tends to pinch pennies where there is no relatively new, large revenue stream, so they'll likely not unilaterally fund it either. )

However, though not impossible but appears a bit weird Blender support will require changes to core Radeon drivers.

Not weird at all. Metal is entangled with doing both "display" and "compute". If expanding the compute core of the driver then the whole thing gets perturbed. Apple deprecating and starting path to nuke OpenCL (and having already killed CUDA. Well, both Nvidia and Apple killed it. ,) means there was work to do just to get to same functionality area on same platforms they already have.

As long as Apple is blowing up existing APIs there is will always be work backfilling the areas being closed off to the bigger moat that Apple is digging.

 

[jav6454]

A machine like the 7,1 doesn’t necessarily need to be on the current OS. Countless Mac Pro users stay at least one version behind and many stay a few versions behind.

The 7,1 definitely has a usable lifespan of at least ten years. After that, the limiting factor will more likely be component longevity, not OS support.

Agreed. Many people still have G5 towers working.

 

[kvic]

I'm just afraid my silence would be mis-interpreted. So here you go.

Why would AMD consider dropping a custom RNDA3 into a "dead" Intel Mac Pro platform worth their time and effort in 2H23 ( perhaps the year after Intel Mac 'died'. ) ? AMD will have MI300 sales to purse in 2H23. Even more so if Apple is still blocking AMD GPU from interacting with M-series Macs.

if Apple releases a Mac Pro M-series in December 2022 ... again almost a half year later then putting effort into the Mac Pro 2019? ( as opposed say a Mac Studio 2023 update. )

But..but..but... two posts before, you just told people to expect hints in WWDC22 for possible RDNA3..

Unless Apple is refreshing the core platform to PCI-e v5, it won't be competitive in "few more years". An AMD 7000 class (especially at the top end) is going to loose substantive "value features" coupled to a PCI-e v3 bus.

Pls mark these words and re-visit in one year time. Hopefully you don't have to eat your own random words.

Not weird at all. Metal is entangled with doing both "display" and "compute". If expanding the compute core of the driver then the whole thing gets perturbed.

Honestly, too weak to explain "not weird at all"...

Peace

 

[4wdwrx]

At the end of the day, any functioning old Mac, MacBook, or PC will still be usable after 10 years.

It's really down to the use case and expectations.

I think marketing have got many people to believe the previous model is obsolete and need to purchase the new product.

Drive it to the ground or buy a new

 

[kvic]

Unless Apple is refreshing the core platform to PCI-e v5, it won't be competitive in "few more years". An AMD 7000 class (especially at the top end) is going to loose substantive "value features" coupled to a PCI-e v3 bus. ( parity of Ryzen 7000 and RTX 7000 on PCI-e v5 is probably going to exhibit some substantive synergies. )

Here is a (bit old) study on effect of PCIe bandwidth on GPU compute performance [0]:

The study was done using PCIe 3.0 but adjusting number of lanes to simulated bandwidth doubling/halfing. As clearly seen, even most demanding GPU compute workload was little affected. That's largely still true today.

What evidence have you seen that gave you the valour to make extra ordinary claim that PCIe 5.0 is required to benefit from "substantive 'value features'" of RNDA3 or Hopper GPUs and "parity of Ryzen 7000 and RTX 7000 on PCI-e v5 is probably going to exhibit some substantive synergies" ?

[0] pugetsystem's scientific blog post

 

[grouch]

The 2013 mac pro 6,1 is still supported, so I would imagine it has some time left.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

The 2013 mac pro 6,1 is still supported, so I would imagine it has some time left.

True, 9 year run!

 

[grouch]

True, 9 year run!

Will this be the year that the next MacOS doesn't support the 6,1? Very likely, but I hope not!

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Will this be the year that the next MacOS doesn't support the 6,1? Very likely, but I hope not!

Apple had some legitimate reasons to require more graphics power with the oncoming of metal, but nothing they've done in the base OS since has really required more GPU grunt. They have leaned on some of their custom silicon for some stuff that is meaningless. Like real time blurring in FaceTime. If they come up with some features that require more GPU grunt, or custom silicon, that are more meaningful, it could represent a logical break. Barring that, seems they could let it roll.

For example, everyone knows the 4,1 and 5,1, with a lowly AMD 580 can run the current version of MacOS just great. Apple really artificially and capriciously stopped support for that machine. So who knows with them, could go either way.

 

[padams35]

I have been considering buying a 7,1 Mac Pro and am curious how long they might be supported for Mac OS. Of course that means speculation I assume.

The current trend is 6+ years after introduction (7+ years when convenient to Apple), but no less than 3+ years after discontinuation. Since the 7,1 is still in production support for another 3+ versions of MacOS is probably a safe assumption, plus another two years of security updates of course.

Will this be the year that the next MacOS doesn't support the 6,1? Very likely, but I hope not!

Nah, I'd give favorable odds the 6,1 will be supported for one more release (but only one more release mind you!) Otherwise Apple will set a new record for fastest-support-drop-after-discontinuation, which might also be awkward if 6,1 stops receiving security updates before it becomes Vintage.