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How much longer can Apple spounge off the outdated PB line?
- Thread starter CuriousG
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I use a P4/3Ghz HyperThreading Laptop to edit video using 'heavy' Premiere Pro 1.5. Works pretty fine for me, speed is more than OK, surely lots and lots faster than using iMovie on my G4/500Mhz.
You can't seriously compare a 3Ghz pentium and a 500 mhz G4.
Besides the bottleneck is rather the hard drive than the cpu. Most people I met who complain that iMovie is too slow often run it on the system disk. (4200 rpm)
Besides the bottleneck is rather the hard drive than the cpu. Most people I met who complain that iMovie is too slow often run it on the system disk. (4200 rpm)
Jedi128 said:
Your G4 chip's getting slower? Return your laptop to Apple immediately, there's something seriously wrong with it!
My PB's just as fast as the day I brought it.
xoxo RedTomato
Bern said:
Yes, I'm well aware of Vista's supposed inability to run on computers, just not sure how this relates to Apple charging 2000$ for outdated technology. Sure, the PowerBook can handle everything you want it to; that doesn't change anything, since you could buy a PC laptop that could do all that and more, and still cost less. Of course, the only people I can see buying the PowerBook right now are those who think that OS X and the Apple logo are worth the extra 500-1000$. The least they could do for people who are spending nearly 2,000$ on that laptop is provide them with 1GB of RAM, like Toshiba does, or a 100G hard drive, like Toshiba does, or a DVD burner or TV tuner like Toshiba does, all while coming in 100$ cheaper than the 15'' PowerBook. Just for kicks, to BTO a PowerBook with similar specs from their website, you would end up paying 2,400$, since Apple charges exorbitant fees for all those configurable components.
Verto said:
I would pay $2000 for a 17" PowerBook with 1 Gig of RAM and a 7200RPM Hard Drive. I won't pay $3000, which is what Apple wants me to pay. And PC buyers get that at $1500.
lasuther
lasuther said:
2000 was my compromise between the starting price of 1500$ and ending price of 2700.
lasuther said:
So, all you have to do is claim you're a "PC buyer" and you can get the 17" PowerBook with 1GB RAM and 7200RPM HD for $1500? Count me in!
Bern said:
I know the fararri looks better... but when the toyota is outperforming the ferrari in speed tests at a fraction of the price... it seems that the choice becomes much more interesting...
I guess with this recent update on Thinksecret site about the Mac Mini updates clearly shows just how considerate Apple is to their potential buyers rather than money in their pockets....fat chance of that. So I guess it is professional to lure people in to buying a computer from Apple by making it a crap shoot on what you get? How lame is this move Apple?
CuriousG said:
I don't see a problem with that move. If you see a Mac Mini that's 1.25Ghz, for example, you buy it at the price of a 1.25Ghz machine and you might actually get a 1.42Ghz. It's not a craphsoot since you know you are getting (at least) 1.25Ghz and that is exactly what you are paying for. It's like buying a cereal box that can win you a trip to Hawaii. Sure, it'd be cool if everyone could win the trip, but all you really paid for was the cereal
.Anyway, there is an old saying in these forums which is: "get the Dell since you are here asking". And that is really all there is to it. If you are not satisfied with the current PB line, don't get one. But I know you realize that the PB is still much better than its PC equivalents otherwise this subject wouldn't be the cause of so much frustration for you.
Verto said:
Well ... if Vista won't run on any current pc laptop than that makes what is out there outdated by those standards of that OS.
You may argue that Vista isn't released yet so therefore pc laptops are not outdated, well Mactels aren't released yet either and the current line of powerbooks do what they are meant to do extremely well.
Perhaps you should buy a Toshiba? At the end of the day you get what you pay for. Some people will never be satisfied and no doubt when Mactels are released those complaining about the current line of Powerbooks will be complaining about the Mactels.
bryanc said:
Yes, this is exactly what I hope to see too.. else I might just buy a Thinkpad. Way better built quality than the PB by a MILE with a superior processor.. crap LCD monitor though.
floyde said:I don't see a problem with that move. If you see a Mac Mini that's 1.25Ghz, for example, you buy it at the price of a 1.25Ghz machine and you might actually get a 1.42Ghz. It's not a craphsoot since you know you are getting (at least) 1.25Ghz and that is exactly what you are paying for. It's like buying a cereal box that can win you a trip to Hawaii. Sure, it'd be cool if everyone could win the trip, but all you really paid for was the cereal
Please stop defending Apple.
So if you bought a plane ticket to Dakota and the plane sends you to... Hawaii would you be pleased? Why you should! It's Hawaii!! More than what you paid for!!
Everyone knows that is simply Apple's ploy in scamming the retailers, by preventing them from cutting prices on... I stress this... OBSOLETE INVENTORY.
Enough said. All this price fixing disgusts me.
leachy said:
This has been a very interesting thread. I find that my recent overthink about Macs -- hence my Mac Rumours addiction -- is due to the fact that there seems to be ways to go around the high prices and allure of Apple. Cheers to your purchase of an iBook and Mini.
What I think I'm learning is that outside of OSX, which is the sacrificial lamb for Intel, Apple is a slave to the same manufacturers of hard drives and all other hardward just like PCs. Oh, and Apple's designs -- which are works of art, BTW, are part of its leading edge.
Someone castigated me on the site for calling the iBook an "Eames like sixties design" recently, but then I read a recent iBook review where the critic called it a "Bauhaus" design. I agree -- the iBooks are pop sixties Panton streamline -- very mod. PBs are the epitome of science fiction Machine Age Modern.
Consciously or unconsciously, Apple's design teams are making style inroads that we all appreciate. But again, if Apple recalls the foundational reasons that such design giants like Albers, Corbusier, Mies Van Der Rohe, Marcel Bruer and the like founded the Bauhaus, their goal was to combine form and function. Apple has fallen behind the ball on the function side of things -- is the aluminum powerbook aluminum because it actually cools better on faster and hotter laptops than did the Titanium? I don't know if it was a function or style decision.
I also don't understand -- and can't afford to find out-- what the FSB bottleneck on PBs is and what needs to be invented or innovated in order to make them as fast as PCs. Apple must also be asking themselves the question -- who needs things to run that fast? (Personally I don't need it at all.) Is there a ceiling on how fast computers can run, or at that point, will the innovation be flash or chemical drives that run somewhat organically rather than mechanically? It is a very strange place Apple finds itself in.
I also don't understand why Apple remains a slave to hard drive manufactuers like Fujistu, and can't work a deal to get us 7200 drives all the time. (If they did that, it would be a no brainer to spend the cash on PBs.) In the end, I think Apple is afraid of being a slave to these component manufactuers because that will reduce Mac to being just like everybody else. The Nano is a style statement, but when form is trumped by functionality problems as apparently is the trouble with the new Nano screen, Apple's problems have started to catch up with the hype.
It's a tough business, I hope Apple can continue to outthink the field without selling its soul -- though I'm afraid the Intel thing was of the Devil.
Bern said:
You make little sense. The question of whether a current PC laptop can run Vista has nothing to do with my argument against the PowerBook. Of course there will be higher demands placed on hardware by Vista; that is called progress. It is not the job of Leopard to run on G3s, nor is it the job of Vista to run on Pentium IIIs. When Vista is released, computers will have improved processor speeds and specs...except for PowerBook, at this rate
My point is this: other laptops improve their specs regularly over time to keep up with new technology. Macs in general, and PowerBooks specifically, lag behind. Whereas many PCs and laptops, even cheap ones like Dells, ship with 1GB of RAM, or 100GB HDs, Apples do not. I don't think anyone can argue that Apple's selling point is its bang for the buck. Beautiful designs, yes; great customer service, yes; but the hardware is lacking, and this is painfully obvious in the PowerBook - smaller hard drives, less RAM, bus speeds, etc when compared to PC laptops.
I'm sure they were asking similar questions when they designed things like the iMac or the Nano, or when they put in the DVD drive in their earlier models. Innovation is more than creating great designs like the iMac; it is remaining at the forefront of technology and meeting the needs (real or imagined) of consumers.
Yay, no dual core e600 (G4-ng) sampling until 2H '06 ...
Considering the 7448 is likely all we will get until then, we will be sponging off them until they are gone.
So no RIO ports, no Integrated Memory Controller, no finally fixed cache, etc. until the full e600 chip ships -- if it ever does with Apple walking away.
Considering the 7448 is likely all we will get until then, we will be sponging off them until they are gone.
So no RIO ports, no Integrated Memory Controller, no finally fixed cache, etc. until the full e600 chip ships -- if it ever does with Apple walking away.
generik said:
That doesn't make any sense. It's not the same thing. Do you know anyone who would be upset if they got more RAM or CPU power than what they paid for? Would you? You don't get a different computer, you get the same model with potentially better specs. The equivalent analogy would be: you buy a regular ticket to Dakota, you get a first class seat on a plane to Dakota.
And yes, the purpose of this is to get rid of the older models but that is not the point. The point is that they are doing it in a way the benefits the consumer. Consider the other scenario (the way all the other brands get rid of their old models [and they ALL do it <and yes I am embedding parenthesis>]):
-Unsuspecting customer walks into a computer store, knows nothing about computers.
-Costumer asks an employee what computer he should get.
-Employee recommends the X 1000, costumer buys it.
-Customer didn't know he could've gotten an X 2000 (which is newer and better) for the same price he paid for the X 1000.
-Employee gets a premium for getting rid of overstock.
Brilliant discussion, California. I'm so glad to see someone else on the forum who understands design like you do (especially all of those names that float around in our heads ), not to mention someone so philosophic. I agree completely.
Also, I'm going to buy a PowerBook soon. I don't care if Apple updates them or not. I need what they offer now, and I find the price acceptable. (Though I may buy refurb to save money.)
), not to mention someone so philosophic. I agree completely.Also, I'm going to buy a PowerBook soon. I don't care if Apple updates them or not. I need what they offer now, and I find the price acceptable. (Though I may buy refurb to save money.)
wongulous said:Brilliant discussion, California. I'm so glad to see someone else on the forum who understands design like you do (especially all of those names that float around in our heads
Also, I'm going to buy a PowerBook soon. I don't care if Apple updates them or not. I need what they offer now, and I find the price acceptable. (Though I may buy refurb to save money.)
Well, thanks. I do think we are attracted to Apple by their own "designthink"... P.S. -- go with a refurb! No use $pending more when you can get Applecare but let us know what you decide.
California said:
The best advice would really be to wait for a revision.
It's gotta be close... real close now. Besides, isn't it ironic that the OP is:
1) short of money
2) instead of making do with what he/she currently uses.. buy a refurbished unit to "save money"?
3) and a year or so down the road, the OP will probably have to be in the market for yet another system when a newer revision might have tanked for much longer.
It's seriously not worth it.
I do agree that current advancements in CPUs have afforded us with enough CPU power for most things, but the Powerbook does feel sluggish in some *current* tasks.. I seriously wonder how it would keep up.
And yes, a 2Ghz 7448 with the improved FSB sounds very good on paper. I think there is quite some potential in that.
I'm still using my nearly-5-year-old 800 MHz TiBook everyday. I publish a 4-color print magazine almost entirely on it, and use lots of apps including Cinema4D, InDesign, PS, Illustrator, After Effects, Office, etc., as well as do the majority of my Xcode/IB coding on it. For doing serious animation or playing the newest games, it's feeling the pain a bit, but still gets the job done. I do have a dual G5 for doing the heavy lifting when I need it, but I'm really amazed at how well this box still performs and holds up. Not only that but I've hauled it all over the earth and by all rights it should not even still boot up, but it does. Screen still looks excellent as well, though I do take pains to treat it well (keep it clean, turn off the backlight or sleep it when not in use). The only modifications are I added RAM and put a Hitachi 7K60 hard drive inside, which really made a big difference and extended its life for me.Chrispy said:
Now having praised it, I will say I'm definitely ready to retire it and get my paws on a shiny new Yonah/Merom dual-core PowerBook, hopefully this time for something a bit less that the $3,000+ I paid for the TiBook.
Floyde??? You make no sense I am sorry to say. I ask you this much...if apple was thinking of the client then why have they seemingly already "assumed" some clients will buy then want to return it until they get a new one. This is evident in their "restocking" statement. I would imagine if it were YOU and YOU bought a mini you would want the current model not the last model before it. Imagine if Sony did that with their tv's? People would be pissed! Deals like that are for places like Costco and Overstocked that thrive on selling their clients discounted and outdated models. Problem here is apple dont want to give the discount.