How much RAM does your phone use on boot?

[Michael Goff]

I was just wondering. The easiest way on Android is to just reboot and then take a look in the settings. I don't know how it is that you look at those things on any other phone (despite having them, I just never bothered). At the end, we can figure out which OS actually is the most lean on resource usage.

Pictures help, by the way.

 

[Michael Goff]

Here it is for me.

Edit: Did my best for WP. It means even less, though, since it doesn't say App and System.

 

[mrex]

impossible, because it depends on what (system) processes you are running. but here is what my phone takes when running as i want (cyanogen os, cm12s/android 502) :

ps. free ram is wasted ram sitting there for nothing

 

[MRU]

How much RAM does your phone use on boot?

Here it is for me.

From your Nexus I presume ?


Z3

M9


Nexus 6

And then you'll get the s6 edge which looks like this

We all know touchwiz is going to be the hog here

 

[pdqgp]

Note 3

Here's a screen shot after a reboot on my Note 3.

 

[Michael Goff]

impossible, because it depends on what (system) processes you are running. but here is what my phone takes when running as i want (cyanogen os, cm12s/android 502) :

ps. free ram is wasted ram sitting there for nothing

Yes and no. If a mobile OS was built like OS X, definitely. But a mobile OS isn't built like that, and free RAM is actually a good thing. Plus, the more that the system uses the less there are for actual applications. It isn't like we can just throw more RAM in there like we can in a lot of desktops and some laptops.

Edit: Also, the system resources is a good start.

From your Nexus I presume ?


Z3
Image

M9
View attachment 552968

Nexus 6
Image


And then you'll get the s6 edge which looks like this
Image


We all know touchwiz is going to be the hog here

Yep, from my Nexus. Like I said, I have no clue how to get the information from my 1520 or 6+.

Edit: Also... how is your M9 only using about 200mb of RAM for system processes?

 

[mrex]

How much RAM does your phone use on boot?

Yes and no. If a mobile OS was built like OS X, definitely. But a mobile OS isn't built like that, and free RAM is actually a good thing.

No, in android free ram is wasted ram. Android keeps apps alive in ram. The more memory the more apps you can keep alive. This is the reason why android has had / has more memory than ios devices. If the memory is running out in android, android kills the app which hasnt been used for awhile to free memory enough.

You will see pics of os memory usage "from 400mb to 1gb" depending on the setup.

 

[Michael Goff]

No, in android free ram is wasted ram. Android keeps apps alive in ram. The more meory the more apps you van keep alive. If the memory is running out in android, android kills the app which hasnt been used for awhile to free memory enough.

So let's imagine that the system was built to use all the RAM. I open up my system, and blamo all 3GB of my Nexus 6 RAM is used for ... what? I assume system things, right? And then when I open up an application, it takes from that? I really don't get the whole "free RAM is wasted RAM" idea when it comes to mobile. Unless you only use a small set of applications, you always want at least a little RAM free in case you want to use it for something else. But if there's none free, you always have to be taking something out of cache.

 

[mrex]

I was talking about apps generally. Not the system processes. Sorry about not saying it clearly enough.

 

[Michael Goff]

I was talking about apps generally. Not the system processes. Sorry about not saying it clearly enough.

See, that makes sense. Apps should be able to use as much RAM as needed. But we see a vast difference in Android on what the system uses. And nobody, so far, has shown what their iPhone uses in terms of RAM yet. I know that it is going to be impossible to judge everything completely, everybody uses different applications. But, like I edited in, we start with the system resources and move from there.

FOR EXAMPLE: Let's say that iOS uses 400mb of RAM for system things. Well, that's almost half of the available RAM. Now imagine a stock Android used about 550. We could then say that iOS is leaner system wise. Or imagine that Sense somehow only used 200mb or so in system. We could then say "WTF is going on there" and try to figure out what HTC is doing right that Google isn't.

To me, it's all about figuring out how much RAM is there for application use. I'm not here to make fun of a device, not even TW-based ones. I'm just gathering information.

 

[MRU]

No, in android free ram is wasted ram. Android keeps apps alive in ram. The more memory the more apps you can keep alive. This is the reason why android has had / has more memory than ios devices. If the memory is running out in android, android kills the app which hasnt been used for awhile to free memory enough.

You will see pics of os memory usage "from 400mb to 1gb" depending on the setup.

That's a false argument put forth when in actual practice the reverse is true. It's a misnomer that android is supposed to be constantly filling up the ram till there is little left.

I have had dozens of devices now. Those with leaner system and app memory requirements that are not using up all the system ram in day to day usage outperform those that have ram soaked up by a heavy system.

It's why I can open far more apps on something like the Nexus 6 and Z3 and keep them running in the background longer than I ever can dream of on any of the many Samsung devices I've owned.

Having free ram improves end user experience by allowing the device to keep those apps in memory and speed up your daily usage.

The problem with likes of Touchwiz is that it's constantly filling that ram with useless legacy background services - which it prioritises over everything else thus meaning the amount of ram the user has for opening apps is severely hampered resulting in the device being less able to keep 'your' apps running in the background.

This nonsense of free ram is wasted ram does not translate in to end user experience or does not seem to be the case on what therefore should be the showcase of this if true - 'nexus device's. (if that's how android us supposed to work - why doesn't it do so on nexus devices). NOW you could argue that 32gb free ram would be wasted, but when we're only talking small amounts free and available to your device & apps then it's better to have more available if you need it than not enough because it's being 'wasted' by a bloated Os.

It's a small partial truth, that has become one of the biggest misnomers especially when folks are often defending the likes of Samsung and LG for having excessive ram usage.

 

[mrex]

Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 (phone model, android 4.4.2)
using 593mb
free 1,2gb

 

[jamezr]

That's a false argument put forth when in actual practice the reverse is true. It's a misnomer that android is supposed to be constantly filling up the ram till there is little left.

I have had dozens of devices now. Those with leaner system and app memory requirements that are not using up all the system ram in day to day usage outperform those that have ram soaked up by a heavy system.

It's why I can open far more apps on something like the Nexus 6 and Z3 and keep them running in the background longer than I ever can dream of on any of the many Samsung devices I've owned.

Having free ram improves end user experience by allowing the device to keep those apps in memory and speed up your daily usage.

The problem with likes of Touchwiz is that it's constantly filling that ram with useless legacy background services - which it prioritises over everything else thus meaning the amount of ram the user has for opening apps is severely hampered resulting in the device being less able to keep 'your' apps running in the background.

This nonsense of free ram is wasted ram does not translate in to end user experience or does not seem to be the case on what therefore should be the showcase of this if true - 'nexus device's. (if that's how android us supposed to work - why doesn't it do so on nexus devices). NOW you could argue that 32gb free ram would be wasted, but when we're only talking small amounts free and available to your device & apps then it's better to have more available if you need it than not enough because it's being 'wasted' by a bloated Os.

It's a small partial truth, that has become one of the biggest misnomers especially when folks are often defending the likes of Samsung and LG for having excessive ram usage.

I see things a little differently. I have had phones close to stock with TONS of free ram. What did that get me? Nothing...but free ram. It did not equate to a faster UI or smoother user experience for me at all. My Nexus 6 was slower and did not have the same user experience as my Note 4. The Note 4 battery also lasted longer. Apps did not refresh on either phone for me. The N6 had a lot of free ram all the time. The Note 4 did not have as much free ram yet the UI was more responsive in everyday use. I could leave an app get data from another app and come back to the original app with no refresh issues.
Now I don't expect to go back 3 apps ago and expect to not have a refresh.
My experience with the M9 for example.....Sense is an awesome skin and uses less resources than TW on my S6. Yet the S6 is faster and more responsive. I found this to be true of the Moto X and and N6. They have more free ram but that does not always translate to a better user experience for me.
The features on the TW based phones far outweigh the lack of free ram in my experience.
IMHO the whole free ram issue is very overblown. But it makes for good forum discussions!

 

[Michael Goff]

I see things a little differently. I have had phones close to stock with TONS of free ram. What did that get me? Nothing...but free ram. It did not equate to a faster UI or smoother user experience for me at all. My Nexus 6 was slower and did not have the same user experience as my Note 4. The Note 4 battery also lasted longer. Apps did not refresh on either phone for me. The N6 had a lot of free ram all the time. The Note 4 did not have as much free ram yet the UI was more responsive in everyday use. I could leave an app get data from another app and come back to the original app with no refresh issues.
Now I don't expect to go back 3 apps ago and expect to not have a refresh.
My experience with the M9 for example.....Sense is an awesome skin and uses less resources than TW on my S6. Yet the S6 is faster and more responsive. I found this to be true of the Moto X and and N6. They have more free ram but that does not always translate to a better user experience for me.
The features on the TW based phones far outweigh the lack of free ram in my experience.
IMHO the whole free ram issue is very overblown. But it makes for good forum discussions!

That gets me thinking. What if there was a feature in the Developers section that allowed stock to use more RAM for system. In theory, couldn't that help us figure out if more RAM does equate to a more fluid UI experience? Also, I don't think it's completely overblown. If you have a 1GB device and figure out that the system is using over half, you've figured out that maybe 1GB devices just aren't what you want.

 

[jamezr]

That gets me thinking. What if there was a feature in the Developers section that allowed stock to use more RAM for system. In theory, couldn't that help us figure out if more RAM does equate to a more fluid UI experience? Also, I don't think it's completely overblown. If you have a 1GB device and figure out that the system is using over half, you've figured out that maybe 1GB devices just aren't what you want.

True.... Good point. But how does that affect your device? Is it slower? Is the UI slow? If so then yes that device does not have a good user experience because it is using too much of the system resources. But if it uses half of the ram and still provides a good user experience then why does it matter.

 

[Michael Goff]

True.... Good point. But how does that affect your device? Is it slower? Is the UI slow? If so then yes that device does not have a good user experience because it is using too much of the system resources. But if it uses half of the ram and still provides a good user experience then why does it matter.

I noticed on my lower end Windows phone that the UI did lag, but that was likely because it didn't even have 1GB of RAM. And then I went from that to a 2GB device and the problem didn't completely go away because of animations. But at least they weren't laggy animations? Also, I have noticed that there is sometimes a slight animation issue when you are trying to go to your home screen if you have no available RAM... or at least it happens to me at times. To me, like I said, it's all about having RAM for applications. Imagine a phone where the processor is fast enough, the RAM is plentiful enough, and you can hold those three applications back without refresh.

Not to bash a single phone, but I have a 1GB RAM phone and it sometimes opens things slower than my 3GB RAM phone. This is normally on second opening, obviously.

 

[kdarling]

Yes and no. If a mobile OS was built like OS X, definitely. But a mobile OS isn't built like that, and free RAM is actually a good thing.

With both iOS and Android, unused RAM during normal operation is considered a waste.

They're both designed to keep as many apps in memory as possible, so the most used ones don't have to be reloaded and restarted from scratch all the time.

Plus, the more that the system uses the less there are for actual applications.

That's also true, and I think the missing system/app memory distinction is what confused things here for a while.

It isn't like we can just throw more RAM in there like we can in a lot of desktops and some laptops.

Which is why it's nice when a phone comes with as much RAM as possible.

It's difficult to tell from startup, btw. Some system processes / services might not get started until requested later on.

 

[jamezr]

I noticed on my lower end Windows phone that the UI did lag, but that was likely because it didn't even have 1GB of RAM. And then I went from that to a 2GB device and the problem didn't completely go away because of animations. But at least they weren't laggy animations? Also, I have noticed that there is sometimes a slight animation issue when you are trying to go to your home screen if you have no available RAM... or at least it happens to me at times. To me, like I said, it's all about having RAM for applications. Imagine a phone where the processor is fast enough, the RAM is plentiful enough, and you can hold those three applications back without refresh.

Not to bash a single phone, but I have a 1GB RAM phone and it sometimes opens things slower than my 3GB RAM phone. This is normally on second opening, obviously.

I also see WP and IOS mobile OSes as more efficient than Android as a whole.
But at the end of the day i prefer Android because it has more features I use that matter to me.

----------

Which is why it's nice when a phone comes with as much RAM as possible.

It's difficult to tell from startup, btw. Some system processes / services might not get started until requested later on.

Some processes used at startup are only used at startup and then not to be used again until called upon. Most of the time they are removed from the RAM after they do the startup services/processes they were designed to do.

 

[Michael Goff]

With both iOS and Android, unused RAM during normal operation is considered a waste.

They're both designed to keep as many apps in memory as possible, so the most used ones don't have to be reloaded and restarted from scratch all the time.



That's also true, and I think the missing system/app memory distinction is what confused things here for a while.



Which is why it's nice when a phone comes with as much RAM as possible.

It's difficult to tell from startup, btw. Some system processes / services might not get started until requested later on.

I hadn't thought of that. I just know that my own usage has made me think that having some free RAM "just in case" has always served me well.

Edit: As for "as much RAM as possible", we all know that phone makers won't put THAT much in. We could easily have a 4GB of RAM phone today. But, instead, we have 3GB Android phones, 2GB Windows Phones, and 1GB iPhones.

I also see WP and IOS mobile OSes as more efficient than Android as a whole.
But at the end of the day i prefer Android because it has more features I use that matter to me.

----------

Some processes used at startup are only used at startup and then not to be used again until called upon. Most of the time they are removed from the RAM after they do the startup services/processes they were designed to do.

I wasn't aware of things that are only used for a slight bit on startup. What sorts of things are these?

 

[jamezr]

I wasn't aware of things that are only used for a slight bit on startup. What sorts of things are these?

TBH I don't know what those are.

 

[Michael Goff]

TBH I don't know what those are.

TBH, I expect you to know everything about phones. I also expect MRU to know everything about phones. Also, as an aside... I feel like I'm getting argumentative in this thread and I really don't want to be. But I have such strong opinions... D:

 

[pdqgp]

All I know is my Note 3 has a shi$ ton of stuff running all day long both in the background and apps and it does just fine. My wife has never had an issue with her iPhones and she hardly if ever closes anything or reboots. It's rare.

I tend to close apps and reboot daily just because that's the way I role. Right or wrong. Works for me. I rarely if ever feel there are issues with my Note 3. It's not bee lightening quick like I had hoped with the upgrade to 5.x but it's not any slower either.

In the end, I really don't care how much memory there is or how much is free. I just care that my device work well and offer a good experience. Check on both accounts, wife is happy with iOS and I'm fine with my Android.

 

[gotluck]

Here is a snapshot of ram/processor use on iPad air gen 1 8.1.2 jailbroken using a utility called cocoatop

Kernel_task includes an idle process just fyi

 

[gotluck]

IMO having a lean system is not overrated, it allows more apps to be cached in ram. These screens aren't a fresh boot, but including the 'cached processes' stats is important because it shows at least in my devices case, I really am not wasting much ram, even though 'running processes' makes it appear that way.

 

[gotluck]

And here is cached processes

Gs4 Gpe 2 GB ram