How much will graphics change with SB vs Nvidia?

[Oppressed]

This thread and all thread about this same topic can be solved with an answer to a simple question.

Do you play 3D games on your Macbook Air?

Yes: Current 2010 MBA with Nvidia 320m would be better suited.

No: The 2011 SB MBA would better suit your needs.

Therefore the answer to this thread is that the 2011 SB MBA would be your best bet.

 

[bitsoda]

Recent price drop

Grab a current-gen MacBook. Apple just discounted them to $899 if you shop in the education store -- a $50 reduction in price. All you can expect from a revised SB MacBook would be slightly improved battery life, reduced heat/noise, and *fingers crossed* 4 GB RAM standard.

 

[KylePowers]

Grab a current-gen MacBook. Apple just discounted them to $899 if you shop in the education store -- a $50 reduction in price. All you can expect from a revised SB MacBook would be slightly improved battery life, reduced heat/noise, and *fingers crossed* 4 GB RAM standard.

I'm still seeing $949?

 

[MrXiro]

I picked up the C2D mba for the 200 dollar discount from buying it "used" from Amazon WHD (which means someone bought it and returned it).

No matter how much faster the SnB processor will be I don't think it outweighs the savings of 200 bucks. Also I don't plan on doing more than Netbook type activities with my MBA... with the option to work on my website and write scripts.

 

[NRoach]

Just one other thing to keep in mind -- the HD3000 does not support OpenCL whereas the 320 does.

 

[tungry]

The performance between HD3000 and Nvidia 320m is negligible at best. From notebookcheck.net, "At high graphics details (1366x768, high) just 13.1 fps are possible in our test. This does not suffice a smooth game play. Nevertheless, the GPU still ranks in front of the G310M graphics from Nvidia (12 fps) and falls only slightly behind the Geforce 320M (15 fps)." The test was on Starcraft 2. Depending which CPU you get along with your SB core can also increase/decrease HD3000 performance.

After seen the review on HD3000, I would much rather have a SB+HD3000 than a OLD C2D+320m.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Intel-HD-Graphics-3000-graphics-solution.43710.0.html

 

[Oppressed]

The performance between HD3000 and Nvidia 320m is negligible at best. From notebookcheck.net, "At high graphics details (1366x768, high) just 13.1 fps are possible in our test. This does not suffice a smooth game play. Nevertheless, the GPU still ranks in front of the G310M graphics from Nvidia (12 fps) and falls only slightly behind the Geforce 320M (15 fps)." The test was on Starcraft 2. Depending which CPU you get along with your SB core can also increase/decrease HD3000 performance.

After seen the review on HD3000, I would much rather have a SB+HD3000 than a OLD C2D+320m.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Intel-HD-Graphics-3000-graphics-solution.43710.0.html

Correct me if I'm wrong but these test were done using a full voltage i7 chipset. No way MBAs will have full voltage chips. More likely LV for 13 inch and ULV for 11. This will affect results.

 

[david6545]

Correct me if I'm wrong but these test were done using a full voltage i7 chipset. No way MBAs will have full voltage chips. More likely LV for 13 inch and ULV for 11. This will affect results.

Good point. Even with full-voltage mobile chips, the max graphics frequency goes down as you go down the range:

i5-2520M = 1.3 GHz
i5-2410M = 1.2 GHz
i3-2310M = 1.1 GHz


They used the i7-2720QM (= 1.3GHz) in that notebookcheck review.

 

[PraisiX-windows]

Either way, if one is not going to be gaming crysis/SC2/RA3 and all the other "heavy" games, one would more than likely be fine I'd think.

But since the op's going to use it for school, just like I plan to, the SB will be the right one. - Battery life is at least one of the things I value the most.

Also I'll be programming as well and I'd like myself some processing power.

 

[tungry]

Correct me if I'm wrong but these test were done using a full voltage i7 chipset. No way MBAs will have full voltage chips. More likely LV for 13 inch and ULV for 11. This will affect results.

You're right, it's using a Intel® Core™ i5 2410M which is not the ULV version but the mobile edition. So, yes, HD3000 would score a bit lower but I don't expect it to be too far off though.

 

[Haribokart]

So hypothetically should SB hinder or benefit the performance on photoshop (and similar apps) over the current airs?

 

[thunng8]

You're right, it's using a Intel® Core™ i5 2410M which is not the ULV version but the mobile edition. So, yes, HD3000 would score a bit lower but I don't expect it to be too far off though.

Wrong. Just do a search. There have been many threads before. The ULV Sandy Bridge in the Samsung Series 9 has been benchmarked (in Windows though) and is well under 1/2 the speed of the 320M in the 13" Macbook Air in various synthetic graphics benchmarks as well as real games.

eg. http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/25/0,1425,sz=1&i=253787,00.jpg

 

[PraisiX-windows]

So hypothetically should SB hinder or benefit the performance on photoshop (and similar apps) over the current airs?

Since I believe, although I havn't tested this out for myself, but it sounds very plausible to me, that photoshop doesn't really utilize the GPU it should be either the same or better - and with that I mean, if it doesn't run fluently on the current MBA, it should do it on the SB, or at least better.

If anyone out there knows otherwise please do correct me.

 

[thunng8]

So hypothetically should SB hinder or benefit the performance on photoshop (and similar apps) over the current airs?

Most Photoshop operations are CPU bound, so you'll see a nice benefit with the new SB processors.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Since I believe, although I havn't tested this out for myself, but it sounds very plausible to me, that photoshop doesn't really utilize the GPU it should be either the same or better - and with that I mean, if it doesn't run fluently on the current MBA, it should do it on the SB, or at least better.

If anyone out there knows otherwise please do correct me.

What about those on this forum that claim that photoshop runs fine with the base 1.4 and 2 Gb of RAM and can't notice any speed difference between the base 11" Air and a 12 core desktop? And that it edits and encodes 4K video just fine? Remember?

 

[david6545]

You're right, it's using a Intel® Core™ i5 2410M which is not the ULV version but the mobile edition. So, yes, HD3000 would score a bit lower but I don't expect it to be too far off though.

The test said:

" This article covers the performance of the HD Graphics 3000 inside the Intel Core i7-2720QM CPU."

 

[david6545]

Wrong. Just do a search. There have been many threads before. The ULV Sandy Bridge in the Samsung Series 9 has been benchmarked (in Windows though) and is well under 1/2 the speed of the 320M in the 13" Macbook Air in various synthetic graphics benchmarks as well as real games.

eg. http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/25/0,1425,sz=1&i=253787,00.jpg

Well, the ULV in the Samsung 9 was the i5-2537M, which has a max graphic clock of 900 MHz. In comparison, the full voltage i3-2310M at 1.1 GHz isn't much more powerful.

http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=54619
http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=52220

 

[yly3]

All of this HD3000-nVidia mistery keeps bugging me. It seems no one really knows the true difference in fact. Tests after tests, benchmarks after benchmarks some say it's a very big difference some say you won't notice. If the 11" gets 7h battery life upgrade, backlit keyboard and comes with Lion I am seriously considering buying (and maybe will) only if the GPU is like 15-20% lower at max.

I don't NEED the upgrade, that is why I will probably wait for the 2012 edition, maybe new better technology will be made for Air type.

 

[Hellhammer]

Since there seems to be a new thread about this everyday and everytime there is lots of false information, I'll just quote what I have said before:

But is the support for OpenCL that great then? Nobody talks about it nowadays. If you look at any non-gaming test, the SB MBP wins the 320M MBP. If Apple is so into OpenCL, then how come it doesn't save the 320M MBP when it comes to their own apps such as iMovie, iPhoto and Aperture?

http://www.barefeats.com/mbps06.html

http://www.macworld.com/article/157893/2011/02/2011macbookpro_benchmarks.html

In my eyes, those tests pretty much show that OpenCL or the GPU in general has very little effect in other than games. Sure, the IGP in ULV and LV CPUs is still slower but it shouldn't play a big role, since the GPU is used so little.

And this time, don't get me wrong. I would love the GPU to be used more since it packs a lot number crushing power in it but right now, the GPU doesn't seem to have a big role in other than games. OpenCL was hyped a lot when SL was released but after that, nobody has said a word about it. NVIDIA's aggressive, and sometimes dubious (paying developers to use CUDA since its NVIDIA only. Same thing with PhysX, so Intel isn't the only one who is playing a bit dirty), marketing of CUDA definitely has not helped the adoption of OpenCL. CUDA support in OS X seems to be even worse.

3DMark 03 (MBP 9400M - i5-2537 - 320M)

5759 - 6980 - 11831

3DMark 05

3930 - 4331 - 7759

3DMark 06

2079 - 2788 - 4706

PCMark Vantage

2429 - 5775

Cinebench R10

3022 - 3880

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GT-320M.25099.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-9400M-G.11949.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-Graphics-3000.37948.0.html

That is comparing your ULV CPU to a full-speed 9400M. MBA's 9400M runs at 300MHz which is 33% slower than the one I used in this comparison. Subtract 33% from the scores of 9400M and you get the performance difference between 2009 MBA and 11" SB MBA.

Those numbers also show that the drop from 320M would be around 35-45% when using ULV SB, not +65% like you claim.

 

[DarwinOSX]

Bzzt. The cpu in the new Air will not be the same as the Samsung. Intel is about to introduce newer low voltage cpu's but they aren't out quite yet.
I don't know the current status but Intel has already said they intend to support OpenCL in the HD 3000. Not that it matters much.
Whoever said the difference between the HD3000 and the 320M is negligible is right.
The latest SB procs, plus Thunderbolt are worth waiting a few weeks for. I'd like to see a backlit keyboard and an 8GB a option as well but don't think either will happen.
That chart sucks for any serious comparison. Not surprising since its from ZDNet. It's not the fastest Air cpu, its a 2GB Air, and many of the Samsung benchmarks are N/A.
Given the responses here I think we see a lot of people wanting to believe there is not reason to get the new Airs over what they have already purchased.

Wrong. Just do a search. There have been many threads before. The ULV Sandy Bridge in the Samsung Series 9 has been benchmarked (in Windows though) and is well under 1/2 the speed of the 320M in the 13" Macbook Air in various synthetic graphics benchmarks as well as real games.

eg. http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/25/0,1425,sz=1&i=253787,00.jpg

 

[thunng8]

Bzzt. The cpu in the new Air will not be the same as the Samsung. Intel is about to introduce newer low voltage cpu's but they aren't out quite yet.

It should be a bit faster than the one in the Samsung. Graphics clock is not much higher, so it won't touch the 320M in terms of graphics performance.

I don't know the current status but Intel has already said they intend to support OpenCL in the HD 3000. Not that it matters much.
Whoever said the difference between the HD3000 and the 320M is negligible is right.

OpenCL support won't come until at least the Ivy Bridge generation. Not for the HD3000. As for the HD3000 vs 320M comment (in the ULV chips).. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, that is an assertion without any facts.

That chart sucks for any serious comparison. Not surprising since its from ZDNet. It's not the fastest Air cpu, its a 2GB Air, and many of the Samsung benchmarks are N/A.
Given the responses here I think we see a lot of people wanting to believe there is not reason to get the new Airs over what they have already purchased.

There have been many other comparisons. I just picked one I could find quickly. You are welcomed to look at others. All say the same thing. The ULV Sandy Bridge in the Samung is less than half the speed of the 320M in the Macbook Air.

e.g. http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/samsung-series-9.aspx?page=3

3DMark06 less than half the 320M
World of Warcraft less than 1/3 of the 320M

 

[Oppressed]

Bzzt. The cpu in the new Air will not be the same as the Samsung. Intel is about to introduce newer low voltage cpu's but they aren't out quite yet.

Of course these are all rumors but Apple has already began production of the refreshed air at the end of May, and therefore they cannot have the new Intel chips you are referring to. More than likely it will be the same chips in the Samsung 9.

 

[Hellhammer]

Of course these are all rumors but Apple has already began production of the refreshed air at the end of May, and therefore they cannot have the new Intel chips you are referring to.

OEMs get access to the chips before they are released. If they got the first shipments on the release day, it would take weeks before the actual products could ship. The production has to be started weeks before the actual release so the product can be released simultaneously with the new CPUs.

Also, it's not that uncommon that Apple gets permission from Intel to release products with unreleased Intel products. 2011 iMacs being the latest as they shipped with Z68 chipset before it was released.

More than likely it will be the same chips in the Samsung 9.

13" MBA would most likely have LV CPU, which is faster than found in the Samsung 9.

 

[PraisiX-windows]

What about those on this forum that claim that photoshop runs fine with the base 1.4 and 2 Gb of RAM and can't notice any speed difference between the base 11" Air and a 12 core desktop? And that it edits and encodes 4K video just fine? Remember?

What about them?

 

[ipodlover77]

Given the responses here I think we see a lot of people wanting to believe there is not reason to get the new Airs over what they have already purchased.

not everybody does cpu intensive things. would you really want to spend 300-400 more dollars to get a processor that you'll never take advantage of? just so you can say you have a sandy bridge processor?