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grahamtearne

macrumors regular
Jun 23, 2006
192
0
No, I understand what you're suggesting (basically an extension of the existing model to a selected few 3rd party apps).

But what if you want to completely exit a backgrounded app? For example, you loaded Skype client in the background, but later decide you want to close it. Rebooting the device would be the only way to do it, unless you expose some controls in the UI.

I think for an IM application like skype, once you are done you can hit log out, then when you hit home and the application is backgrounded in a logged out state the system understands this and knows it now has no purpose running and gives it an idle time of 5 minutes to become logged in again and if it is not the OS can just kill the task. You see this way average users are not even presented with a box upon logging out asking 'you have now logged out would you also like to end the program?' some may get confused by that thinking well erm I am not using it but if I close it does that mean I can't use it anymore? (OK maybe a tad extreme but you see what I mean)

With the SDK it can all be written in that a 5 minute logged out session = kill process via the OS, transparent to the user, saves resources and keeps the simple UI we currently have.
 

hitekalex

macrumors 68000
Feb 4, 2008
1,624
0
Chicago, USA
With the SDK it can all be written in that a 5 minute logged out session = kill process via the OS, transparent to the user, saves resources and keeps the simple UI we currently have.

Hmm.. now you're assuming that each backgrounded app has a clear 'logged-in' / 'logged-out' state. It may be true for Skype, but not for other apps.

Also, what happens if Skype client gets logged out because of lost network connection? I wouldn't want the OS to just kill it, I would want Skype to re-connect once the network is available again.

I suppose Apple could mandate that each app that supports backgrounding must provide a "close" button within its own UI. Giving the user a chance to kill the app, rather than background it.. But that would require modification to all of the existing apps, rather than making the multitasking/backgrounding process completely OS-centric.
 

mrgreen4242

macrumors 601
Feb 10, 2004
4,377
9
I've been thinking about multitasking a bit since the iPad announcement (I really like the thing, for the record) and I've had a couple thoughts.

First, given the choice, I think I might actually prefer a Dashboard to actual multitasking. If I could READ emails, control iTunes, adjust some basic system prefs (brightness, wifi/bt, volume, etc), set alarms, read an RSS feed (even just headlines), jot down a note, do a quick calculation (general calculator and specific conversion calcs, etc), stream audio from the web... anything like that is possible in a Dashboard.

Assuming that there was no true multitasking but a robust Dashboard was available, the other thing I would like to see is an improved "saved state" for apps. The default behaviour should be to resume an app EXACTLY the way you last left it.

These two combined with the existing push services would be perfectly adequate, imo. The change of "suspending" from "quitting" an app when the home button is pressed could be assisted by some small change in the apps icon on the home screen. A badge or something to indicate that you are in a saved state, and a way to relaunch an app rather than reload it (maybe a long tap to relaunch and a regular to resume?) would be a needed feature as well.

If there was true multitasking implemented, I think that I would would like to have the Home button give me either an Expose view or a CoverFlow view of all running apps. Tapping the Home button again or tapping a Home Screen widget in the Expose/CoverFlow view to bring me back to the program launcher. Seems to me that you would want to be able to switch between apps more quickly than launch new apps, so this would make sense.
 

hitekalex

macrumors 68000
Feb 4, 2008
1,624
0
Chicago, USA
If there was true multitasking implemented, I think that I would would like to have the Home button give me either an Expose view or a CoverFlow view of all running apps. Tapping the Home button again or tapping a Home Screen widget in the Expose/CoverFlow view to bring me back to the program launcher. Seems to me that you would want to be able to switch between apps more quickly than launch new apps, so this would make sense.

That's what I described in post #26
 

Sydde

macrumors 68030
Aug 17, 2009
2,563
7,061
IOKWARDI
This is what will have to happen for multitasking to work: Apple will have to provide apps with the option to implement a soft exit widget on their screens (like a circle with a downward-facing triangle). This way, the user will be able to have full, intuitive control over what is running. Hit the soft-exit widget in Skype so that you can continue your conversation while also checking wikipedia to see if that really was a red-bellied sapsucker you just saw. These apps will be given some sort of time-out-exit notification from the system if their threads/run-loops have become idle.

Obviously, full-screen game apps will not want or have this, and things like Pages would mostly not really need it if launch-restore times are pretty good. But a day may come when you can actually do something that would require a lengthy operation that you would want to leave go while you do other things (Audacity on iPad?).

What I see as an interface would not be exposé-like but would me slightly more dock like: running apps would be represented by their app icons, with a close/quit device in the lower-right corner (to avoid confusion with the delete device that appears in the upper-left), and if they have multiple windows, an expansion triangle to get your app-specific exposé view or window list.

The running-app view would be called up by using the entire side of your hand in a downward motion, the app view would allow for re-ordering, and to quickly jump from one app to the next in order (like cmd-tab), you would swipe the side of your hand left or right.
 

Compile 'em all

macrumors 601
Apr 6, 2005
4,131
359
EDIT: Ideally, the home button could be pressed 3 times to bring up Exposé. This is for the people who asked how I thought it should be activated.

Ideally AND 3 times shouldn't be in the same sentence.

It is a good thing you don't work for Apple :p.
 

FrankieTDouglas

macrumors 68000
Mar 10, 2005
1,554
2,882
People are still debating on the functionality of multitasking and have no idea how to close running apps? Ponder away, but whatever... you can already do it with the jailbroken mobile OS, and it works both easily AND efficiently.

And for those saying that you would never need to background things like games, then what do you do when you get a text while playing a game? If you respond, it closes your game and does not start back up from your save point. It makes sense for it to easily background while you complete your task. What if Apple improved its pre-installed apps?

This all feels like we've entered a 10 year computer timewarp.
 

IBradMac

macrumors 68000
Jun 27, 2008
1,799
2
Ohio
4-finger swipe expose would be amazing. Then each box could have an (x) in the upper left hand corner to close the app. God damn it Apple, you better implement this or something like it so I can buy one. I also want to be able to have more than 1 active tab in Safari.

Yes! Or two fingers straight down on the springboard to activate expose. (my apologies if its already been said.)

There was an iPhone video on YouTube a while back mocking up how expose would work. It was sweet, but sadly the JB community didn't take notice. :(
 

grahamtearne

macrumors regular
Jun 23, 2006
192
0
People are still debating on the functionality of multitasking and have no idea how to close running apps? Ponder away, but whatever... you can already do it with the jailbroken mobile OS, and it works both easily AND efficiently.

And for those saying that you would never need to background things like games, then what do you do when you get a text while playing a game? If you respond, it closes your game and does not start back up from your save point. It makes sense for it to easily background while you complete your task. What if Apple improved its pre-installed apps?

This all feels like we've entered a 10 year computer timewarp.

Everygame I have played (with the exception of doodlejump) saves state (much like you can on an emulator) and then resumes once I am done with my call or text.

I have used backgrounded apps on jailbroken OS and no it doesnt work as well as you state. It works but not well enough. I have been listening to web radio while browsing safari and on multiple occasions the phone runs out of ram and just closes the radio app because it is not designed to be open still, now an official implementation of it would see it close iPod and run as iPod does in the background.

It is also not quite as easy as you suggest, well wasnt when I last used it, long hold = backgrounding enabled etc, check task manager etc etc. Now while this is second nature to you, me and most people on here it is not to the vast majority of who uses these devices. My brother who is 19, a typical candidate you may thing for someone to be into all of this stuff, well frankly he isnt. He enjoys sports and cars and other activities and uses a laptop for facebook and office. Now he doesnt care how or why things works, he has an iphone and has some apps etc and I have jailbroke it for him previously and he just doesnt get it and it made a few things unstable. He wants his phone to work as intended.

Now the iPad is more capable than the iphone but it is still limited to fullscreen apps which means 1 app at a time to work with so on the whole backgrounded apps are useless. Yes I admit there are times when a process should be allowed to be backgrounded which is what I have discussed in other posts and suggest possible ways around it.

I am glad you like your jailbroken features and find it easy to use, but remember this people who dont know how to jailbreak have no interest in computing like 95% of us one these sort of forums have and therefore dont give two ***** about things like cydia, and brackgrounder and front ends (heck they dont even know what they are) now these jailbroken methods are not the way forward for the iPad, its great that you like it and you can probably continue to use them when the iPad gets jailbroken, but dont expect to see apple include any of the jailbroken methods any time soon.

This is a casual device for certain people. If your more tech savvy like you suggest maybe you will be better off with a dell mini 10v and putting snow leopard on it.
 

grahamtearne

macrumors regular
Jun 23, 2006
192
0
Hmm.. now you're assuming that each backgrounded app has a clear 'logged-in' / 'logged-out' state. It may be true for Skype, but not for other apps.

Also, what happens if Skype client gets logged out because of lost network connection? I wouldn't want the OS to just kill it, I would want Skype to re-connect once the network is available again.

I suppose Apple could mandate that each app that supports backgrounding must provide a "close" button within its own UI. Giving the user a chance to kill the app, rather than background it.. But that would require modification to all of the existing apps, rather than making the multitasking/backgrounding process completely OS-centric.

I see your point, I hadnt thought of that. I am just throwing out ideas really.

It wouldnt be beyond the realms of possibility however for a line of code in the app that states connection loss = keep open, try to reconnect when signal/network is possible
and user logout (through the button press) prompts the OS to kill the process?
 

vilasgn

macrumors regular
Aug 12, 2008
149
0
How about adding two more buttons on the right and left of home button or at least enabling the gesture are around home button to perform additional tasks!
 

Arran

macrumors 601
Mar 7, 2008
4,928
3,935
Atlanta, USA
How about you hold the iPad firmly in both hands and give the bottom edge a little flick towards you? Then a mini dock (like OS X) pops up with all your running apps showing.

BTW - anyone notice the iPad dock shown on the http://www.apple.com home page looks a bit like OS X's "3D" dock? Surely if it looks like it, it should behave like it, yes? Note, also, how it has plenty of space for three extra (background running?) icons in addition to your favorites.

I think Apple's been holding out on us. And why not? :)
 

MattInOz

macrumors 68030
Jan 19, 2006
2,760
0
Sydney
Why use a finger gesture when you could use the whole hand?

To me fingers (and hopefully a stylus to come) are for interacting, and mostly with one app. Why not a very different gesture like an open palm?

Like your giving a stop sign to the tablet. The touch sensor could even pick this up before you even touch the screen so you don't grease up the screen as much. Seems like a really natural and direct action.

Could even be expanded, first gesture invokes expose mode, pull back away to stay in the same app, sweep left and right to move to cards either side, a dock drops out of the top of the screen with all your running apps and favorites so you can tap one with your finger to open or switch to.
 

joshellis625

macrumors 6502
Feb 16, 2008
282
19
Georgia
To invoke it, just throw it across the room, then when you go pick it up, "exposé" will be ready on the screen for you.

jk. I vote for the 2 click method. As for iPod controls, invoke that by holding the home button. Get rid of Voice Control (I would never use it on an iPad, it's only useful on the iPhone IMO)
 

kdesign7

macrumors 6502a
Feb 1, 2010
647
9
earth, for now.
This is very much similiar to ProSwitcher for a JailBroken iPhone/iPod

proswitcher1.png


I use it on my iPod touch and it works Great.. same idea as what your describing. 2 Clicks to invoke. Open the App you'd like to 'hold', hold down the home button till a msg says Background enabled, and your set! (Same goes with reversing, Hold until you see Background disabled).

Great mock up!
 

EssentialParado

macrumors 65816
Feb 17, 2005
1,162
48
I dont think any of this really needs to be added to the iPad, it does not need full on multitasking, only basic multitasking, let me explain.

iPhone OS already HAS multitasking support, however this is just for the Apple core apps such as iPod. Thanks to this we know it has the power to run for example iPod + another app.

Now do we really want, especially on a device like the iPad that was designed, lets face it, for the more casual use of browsing, using a few apps etc, a complicated task management system. We are all computer literate, people like my Dad who has a laptop to use the internet doesn't need to know where things are in the background etc, and that is the bueaty of this device. Its that fast he can be browsing > hit home > open pages -> finish in pages, hit home hit safari and he is browsing again, simple. Commands for expose, task managment applications are NOT needed. This is not Windows, Linux or Mac OSX.

I'm very much in agreement with this.

1) Is it possible to come up with a faster app switching mechanism than already exists in the iPhone interface?

2) What is the simplest method that makes it very clear to the user they still have apps running?


Anyway, this is a basic idea I came up with. I know I'm no designer, but I do think it's a solution that non-techy people could 'just get'. But maybe not.

I stupidly posted it in its own thread, but I'm just putting it here for continuity's sake:

ipadmultitasking.jpg



*one amendment I've had since then is to not force landscape mode for multi-tasking. I can see a few methods of how it would work in portrait mode too, so ignore that part of the design.
 

kdesign7

macrumors 6502a
Feb 1, 2010
647
9
earth, for now.
I'm very much in agreement with this.

1) Is it possible to come up with a faster app switching mechanism than already exists in the iPhone interface?

2) What is the simplest method that makes it very clear to the user they still have apps running?


Anyway, this is a basic idea I came up with. I know I'm no designer, but I do think it's a solution that non-techy people could 'just get'. But maybe not.

I stupidly posted it in its own thread, but I'm just putting it here for continuity's sake:

ipadmultitasking.jpg



*one amendment I've had since then is to not force landscape mode for multi-tasking. I can see a few methods of how it would work in portrait mode too, so ignore that part of the design.

Great designs!!!
 

Sketh

macrumors 6502
Sep 14, 2007
256
0
I'm fairly certain apple doesn't want to force the iPad into any orientation, such as forcing landscape etc etc.

That being said I think any of our mockups we've posted would be a fine solution for multi-tasking.
 

anthonymoody

macrumors 68040
Aug 8, 2002
3,116
1,210
How about you hold the iPad firmly in both hands and give the bottom edge a little flick towards you? Then a mini dock (like OS X) pops up with all your running apps showing.

BTW - anyone notice the iPad dock shown on the http://www.apple.com home page looks a bit like OS X's "3D" dock? Surely if it looks like it, it should behave like it, yes? Note, also, how it has plenty of space for three extra (background running?) icons in addition to your favorites.

I think Apple's been holding out on us. And why not? :)


I think it's already been shown from the SDK that a 6x grid is already there in 3.2, no? And that'd of course include 6 apps in the dock.

One interesting thing about the fixed window size for apps is that you could very easily envision two different side-by-side app use screens. In landscape, two apps side by side, each taking up 1/2 the screen. In portrait, 4 apps in a 2x2 grid.

If Apple limits "multi-tasking" to two- and four- app combinations, that's another way to simplify questions about "what's running?" and "how do I know?"

You'd still have to answer questions about how to invoke these states, and exit from them. But somehow I think Apple will figure out a way that just makes sense.

Cut and paste took a looooong time to come, but its implementation is such that, for myself at least, I cannot imagine it being different or better. I think the same will happen with "multi-tasking."

And I put multi-tasking in quotes to sort of highlight the difference between the capability and the technology that underpins it. Do we "need" a full-OSX type solution, wherein you can open as many apps, and windows, and size them as you like, as your hardware can take? Of course not. And I don't think we can/should expect one. At least not until the iron progresses to an even more capable level (A5...6...7...etc). I don't believe Apple would allow a "solution" wherein a user could open up so many apps that the experience bogs down (Pre anyone?)

The reality is that most of us want/need to do a few things at the same time. People always mention audio, but there are certainly others - responding to texts while playing a game, keeping multiple web tabs live, internet/Office combos, etc.

With a simple solution Apple could cover 9x% of these scenarios and continue the "most of the people most of the time" approach that the iPad seems to embody as its focus.

That's what I see happening.
 

Mkallevik

macrumors member
Oct 26, 2007
59
0
Many good ideas here about how to allow multitasking and how it could work.

However, I think the main reason apple has not implemented multitasking is how this would impact the user experience. When you have a touchbased device, the device has to react in a split second when you touch it. Otherwise the experience will be terrible. When you have a mouse it doesn`t matter that much if the computer doesn`t react that fast, because you are not physically hitting a button.

Does this make any sense?

I hope though that the prossesors in theese devices and the ram can support multitasking, even though I am not sure that I need it.
 

hitekalex

macrumors 68000
Feb 4, 2008
1,624
0
Chicago, USA
Picking this up from the other thread:

EssentialParado said:
hitekalex said:
Sorry to be blunt, but your solution is terrible. It's unintuitive, inelegant, inconsistent with the rest of UI, and inflexible (just 2 apps allowed to multitask.. huh?) I can only say I am glad you're not in charge of designing this.

Well, well… Hadn't seen that, thanks for posting. I'll try to integrate my ideas into that thread. I'd be interested to know why you think my design is so inelegant and inconsistent with the iPhone OS.

OK let's see:

(1) You're "stealing" existing and well-known behavior for your multitasking method. Holding down an app puts the iPhone OS in "app delete" mode. Now, every iPhoneOS user has to re-learn this function - not acceptable. Also, you don't address the new gesture for deleting apps - holding down Home button for 2 seconds is already reserved by Voice Control, so you can't use that.

(2) Your whole "app pair" approach is limited and generally cumbersome. Let's say I open app-A and app-B. A few minutes later I decide I want to run app-C, while keeping app-A running in background. If I understand your proposal correctly, I would have to kill both apps, and then re-start app-C along with app-A?

(3) You've come up with the whole new UI mode ("split screen") just to run 2 apps side by side. While I understand your desire to minimize the multitasking to preserve the battery/memory resources.. This basically paints Apple into the corner. If they decide to expand the multitasking to allow more concurrent apps as advanced hardware allows it, they'll have to change the OS UI again. Poor design choice.

(4) Forcing iPhone into landscape mode - another poor design choice. I see you added a comment changing it, but you're not explaining how two apps are displayed in portrait mode. Will certainly be a challenge on smaller 3.5" screens.

(5) No obvious way to background a regularly started app, unless you originally start it in your special "multitasking mode". What if I start an app "regularly", but later decide I want to background it (without killing and restarting it first)? Inflexible and inelegant.

I can list a few more, but I think you get the idea.. :)
 

EssentialParado

macrumors 65816
Feb 17, 2005
1,162
48
I hope though that the prossesors in theese devices and the ram can support multitasking, even though I am not sure that I need it.
Something I posted in my other thread, but didn't mention here is that I think Apple shouldn't allow just any app to be multi-tasked. If it puts the device in danger of lagging, or even crashing - it's unacceptable. So my proposal is that an app will need to meet certain performance targets to be classified by Apple as 'multitaskable'.

(1) You're "stealing" existing and well-known behavior for your multitasking method. Holding down an app puts the iPhone OS in "app delete" mode. Now, every iPhoneOS user has to re-learn this function - not acceptable. Also, you don't address the new gesture for deleting apps - holding down Home button for 2 seconds is already reserved by Voice Control, so you can't use that.

(2) Your whole "app pair" approach is limited and generally cumbersome. Let's say I open app-A and app-B. A few minutes later I decide I want to run app-C, while keeping app-A running in background. If I understand your proposal correctly, I would have to kill both apps, and then re-start app-C along with app-A?

(3) You've come up with the whole new UI mode ("split screen") just to run 2 apps side by side. While I understand your desire to minimize the multitasking to preserve the battery/memory resources.. This basically paints Apple into the corner. If they decide to expand the multitasking to allow more concurrent apps as advanced hardware allows it, they'll have to change the OS UI again. Poor design choice.

(4) Forcing iPhone into landscape mode - another poor design choice. I see you added a comment changing it, but you're not explaining how two apps are displayed in portrait mode. Will certainly be a challenge on smaller 3.5" screens.

(5) No obvious way to background a regularly started app, unless you originally start it in your special "multitasking mode". What if I start an app "regularly", but later decide I want to background it (without killing and restarting it first)? Inflexible and inelegant.

I can list a few more, but I think you get the idea.. :)
1) It's true, my method does replace the current function of hold to delete. My belief is that I don't feel it is used often enough to be a significant re-learn of the user. I also feel holding the home button for two seconds to make the home screen icons jiggle around is possibly even more intuitive, if we think of the home button as relating directly to the home screen.

For voice control - point acknowledged. I've never used voice control as I only have a 1st gen touch, so had no idea it already used the home button in this way. In that case, maybe the icon jiggle command can be remapped to something else, maybe a gesture. But I do stand by my idea that holding on an icon to launch it in multi-tasking mode is the simplest and most intuitive solution, even if it would require remapping a couple of other controls.

2) It seems I didn't quite convey my idea well enough as you're misunderstanding the interface slightly. If you take a look at my crude mockup again, can you see that each window is given its own fullscreen and close controls underneath?
picture3474e2.png

The idea is, in your example of opening App C, you would close the relevant app using the close button, leaving you with an icon screen again to open the next app you wish to multi-task with. To quit both, you can either press the close button of each one at a time or you can press the home button to quit both together and return back to the springboard.

3) I've asked this question a few times now, but I still haven't seen anyone give a real explanation why they need more than two apps open at once. Admittedly, at first I didn't see a need to have more than one open at once, but I understood that need when music streaming apps was pointed out to me, or dragging content from one app to another (i.e., research.) So maybe someone can explain the potential need for 3 or more to me.

4) First, I don't expect my suggested technique (or any other split-screen type suggestion) to ever work in iPhones, so I won't go into a discussion about small screens. But as for how it could work in portrait mode, I realized the apps could potentially switch into scaled versions of their landscape views and be placed above and below each other.

5) It's true. In my design, if you've started an app and wish to open another, you would need to quit the app and re-launch in multi-tasking mode. But if we assume the app saves its state on quit, and reopens quickly on an iPad, would it be that bothersome to people?

I believe we'll have to pay some price of versatility in exchange for an *obvious* interface. If there was an option to go to the home screen while leaving an app running in the background, would that be obvious to all users that they've done that and that an app is still running? I think the best way to express that to the user is have it forcibly take up a portion of the screen. Maybe an icon in the corner could work, but would that be clear to the user that it's using up their battery by being there? It could just appear to be a shortcut icon of some kind.

I'm not saying my design is the absolute full stop. I believe that the design that Apple does finally implement will need to be as obvious and clear as possible to the user of what they're doing, without having to teach them a complicated UI. I do think my design is very basic and raw. But I think it's easily possible that a couple of advanced gestures could be implemented into it, so that the techy people would find useful; something such as immediately converting an open app into multitasking mode with an advanced swipe gesture of some kind, or something like that… :)
 
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