How Old is too Old for an iMac????

[bunnspecial]

plus more RAM than the Apple advised maximum,

Just going to point out that you're already over the "Apple advised maximum" for this machine(4gb)...

Apple has historically been conservative in their "maximum ram"(usually half the real number) and I know of exactly zero issues that come from from exceeding them. The Mini 3,1 is no exception-8gb is what the processor/memory controller support(remember these are off the shelf PC components and not Apple specific) and the computer is perfectly happy controlling that.

Personally, I exceed them in virtually every computer because it allows me to get a LOT more life out of a computer than Apple would probably like for me to

Sent from a Macbook Pro 9,1 with 16gb of RAM-twice what Apple says it supports, but rock stable with it for 4 years now and in service for 12+ hours a day nearly every day.

 

[EugW]

For a geek with an inclination to meddle taking replacing the HDD with an SSD, plus more RAM than the Apple advised maximum, and embracing the challenge to install a more recent OS than officially supports older computers, to get them to "scream" can provide immense satisfaction.

For the average Joe or Jill, who just wants to do some relatively undemanding stuff, just a dust out every three years or so, and upgrade / update within officially supported specs and OS, can keep an older Mac good for day to day use for ten or a dozen years, maybe more, with minimal hassle.

Each to their own, but I fall into the average Joe camp.

I got the first Mac Mini in 2005 because I wanted something that was easily occasionally portable. When the HDD and power supply failed in 2009, my situation and requirements had not changed. I reckoned that replacement was more cost effective than repair..... a good decision as it turned out.

My needs have changed a bit now. Going ahead, as a teacher, I'll be using a lot more computer based material, so need something I can take to work most days. I'm going to get a MacBook Air, mainly for work, and continue to use the Mini as my main machine at home for another couple or three years.

When some part of the Mini does fail, as sooner or later it must, replacement will again probably be more cost effect than repair from the point of an average Joe. A geek, on the other hand, may see it as a project to be improved and pushed to see what is possible.

Well, I guess I just don't understand why anyone would want to use a browser that's so out of date that many websites won't even work on it properly, including pretty much all bank websites.

Like I said before, if you only run really old legacy software and never browse, I guess that's fine.

 

[Micky Do]

Just going to point out that you're already over the "Apple advised maximum" for this machine(4gb)...

Correct..... I asked the shop to install 4 GB Ram. They installed 4GB RAM in addition to the original 1 GB. I know not, and care not whether 8 GB (4 GB more than officially supported) would give additional benefit. The activity monitor suggests that no more than 4 GB is actively in use at any time. It works fine for my humble needs.

 

[bunnspecial]

Well, I guess I just don't understand why anyone would want to use a browser that's so out of date that many websites won't even work on it properly, including pretty much all bank websites.

I'm a PowerPC nut and still use PPC computers regularly.

We are fortunate in that we have a couple of maintained browsers for them. Tenfourfox quit having source parity with Firefox a few releases ago, but it keeps feature parity. The developer has been turning off features when they become too insecure to work...like flash 4 or 5 years ago.

I'm REASONABLY comfortable using it, but I won't banking or other financial stuff on PPC. For that, I use an Intel Mac running a reasonably new OS(High Sierra on my main MBP) and the most current version of Firefox. The Firefox thing is a preference...I'd have no reservations about Safari. I'd even use Chrome were it not for the fact that I have a serious dislike of it

 

[Micky Do]

Well, I guess I just don't understand why anyone would want to use a browser that's so out of date that many websites won't even work on it properly, including pretty much all bank websites.

Like I said before, if you only run really old legacy software and never browse, I guess that's fine.

The browser that came with Mountain Lion did get out of date, so was not working well with an increasing number of websites. Otherwise I was happy with Mountain Lion. However, the browser situation prompted me to do the update to El Capitan.

So far there has not been any problem with any website, but going ahead a year or two that may change. By then components such as the HDD are likely to fail. Rather than meddle to make an old computer sort of modern, to eke out another year or two from something already a dozen years old, better to replace the computer, from my average Joe point of view. A geek inclined to meddle may have a different viewpoint.

My 21 year old motorcycle (the original design of which dates back to 1959), on the other hand, is still easily maintained and there are no significant benefits from more recent models from my use point of view. When I was considering replacing it a few years ago, the mechanic said "4,000 baht to overhaul engine or 40,000 baht for a new bike that is more likely to get stolen.... your choice".

 

[A.Goldberg]

For a geek with an inclination to meddle taking replacing the HDD with an SSD, plus more RAM than the Apple advised maximum, and embracing the challenge to install a more recent OS than officially supports older computers, to get them to "scream" can provide immense satisfaction.

For the average Joe or Jill, who just wants to do some relatively undemanding stuff, just a dust out every three years or so, and upgrade / update within officially supported specs and OS, can keep an older Mac good for day to day use for ten or a dozen years, maybe more, with minimal hassle.

Each to their own, but I fall into the average Joe camp.

I got the first Mac Mini in 2005 because I wanted something that was easily occasionally portable. When the HDD and power supply failed in 2009, my situation and requirements had not changed. I reckoned that replacement was more cost effective than repair..... a good decision as it turned out.

My needs have changed a bit now. Going ahead, as a teacher, I'll be using a lot more computer based material, so need something I can take to work most days. I'm going to get a MacBook Air, mainly for work, and continue to use the Mini as my main machine at home for another couple or three years.

When some part of the Mini does fail, as sooner or later it must, replacement will again probably be more cost effect than repair from the point of an average Joe. A geek, on the other hand, may see it as a project to be improved and pushed to see what is possible.

I’d highly recommend upgrading the HDD to an SSD, it make a huge difference. I have a 2008 Mac Pro that I upgraded to an SSD from a 7200rpm HDD. It was like a breath of new life into the otherwise very capable machine. It feels just as fast, of not faster than my far newer i5 MacBook Pro.

I’m not a super technically inclined computer person, but I replaced the HDD and RAM in my grandfathers Mac Mini. It was not difficult at all as long as you follow the instructions.

 

[StarShot]

What I plan on doing: I would like to wipe the hard drive clean and then reload OSX. Not sure which version would run the best or if I should just get the latest that it can take.

Is this reasonable to do? Will it work and be relatively useful? Do you have any suggestions? How old a Mac do you have and does it still run well?

When I saw this thread, I thought it said "How old is too old to HAVE an iMac"? Since I'm 79, I was very interested in the question. Alas...I still don't know. Maybe I can report back when I'm 89.

 

[EugW]

I'm not prepared to take apart my 2010 iMac, but luckily it's tolerable with a new install since it has a 7200 rpm desktop hard drive. However, "tolerable" is not great. So I tried a FireWire 800 SSD, and it works surprisingly well. (USB 2 does not work work well.) That would be one way of avoiding taking the Mac mini apart (even though it shouldn't be that hard), while still getting much of the benefit of SSD.

FW800 real world might be slower for sequential speed than even a 7200 rpm hard drive. So why does FW800 SSD help? Cuz the latency is much, much, much lower than a hard drive. Small random reads might be as much as 50X faster than small random reads on hard drives, since hard drives are often below even 1 MB/s for this. These are my results over FW800 with a Samsung 850 EVO SSD:

The main problem with this solution is now you have a box beside the Mac mini, which defeats its sleekness. Plus the enclosure alone would cost as much as the SSD.

OWC sells a 2.5" FW800 + USB 3 enclosure for US$60 that can run off bus power but also off DC power, the latter highly recommended IMO. Add your own SSD to HUGELY increase the speed of that Mac mini. With 5 GB RAM, El Capitan will run well for light usage.

https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/MSTG800U3K/

The one I bought was the aluminum OWC Mini Pro, which kinda looks like the cheese grater Mac Pro in design, but it's too expensive for this purpose now IMO, at $88, and doesn't have USB 3, just USB 2.

https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/MEQM0GBKS/

 

[bunnspecial]

I'm not prepared to take apart my 2010 iMac, but luckily it's tolerable with a new install since it has a 7200 rpm desktop hard drive. However, "tolerable" is not great. So I tried a FireWire 800 SSD, and it works surprisingly well. (USB 2 does not work work well.) That would be one way of avoiding taking the Mac mini apart (even though it shouldn't be that hard), while still getting much of the benefit of SSD.

I learned a long time ago that the repair guides have you do more than is actually NECESSARY to change an HDD in that generation iMac. Most will tell you to pull the screen, which is a lot of work and also prevents a lot of opportunities to mess things up.

I've done a bunch of them-whether to replace a spinner like-for-like or do an SSD upgrade, and I've only pulled the panel completely once.

If you lift off the front glass(be smart about it-it's held on with magnets but will pull off and just needs to be laid somewhere out of the way where it won't fall/have something set on it) and then remove the dozen or so T15 torx screws holding the display in place you can "lever" it up at the top. I think you need to disconnect one ribbon cable, but have more than enough room to get at the HDD cage behind it.

The only "gotcha" on re-assembly is that some of the screen screws can be difficult to re-install since the neodymium magnets will grab them before you can get them in place. Aside from that, make sure there's not too much dust in the room where you're working and once the screws are back in place you just set the glass back on and you're good to go.

The other thing with these is that non-Apple HDDs/SSDs don't have the correct temperature sensor, and if you just stick a drive in the fans will race. OWC sells a fix for this in a little harness with a self-adhesive temp sensor you stick on the HDD case, and a pigtail to go in line with the SATA power cable. It's around $30.

Also, if you're fitting an SSD, you need a 2.5" to 3.5" adapter. This is usually just a stamped piece of sheetmetal-it's a common generic PC part and can be had for $10 or less. There are a few different styles, although I usually buy the "tray" type that allow you to stack two 2.5" drive(although obviously you can only put a single drive in an iMac).

Minis are free of both of these issues-they take 2.5" "laptop" HDDs(all standard SATA SSDs are this size) and don't need a temp sender.

 

[Guy Clark]

Well, I guess I just don't understand why anyone would want to use a browser that's so out of date that many websites won't even work on it properly, including pretty much all bank websites.

Like I said before, if you only run really old legacy software and never browse, I guess that's fine.

Actually web browsing on Snow Leopard is currently perfectly safe providing you use Firefox 45.9 ESR although it may not be advisable for sensitive tasks such as online banking
https://9to5mac.com/2018/01/31/snow-leopard-became-reliability-legend/

 

[Guy Clark]

I'm not prepared to take apart my 2010 iMac, but luckily it's tolerable with a new install since it has a 7200 rpm desktop hard drive. However, "tolerable" is not great. So I tried a FireWire 800 SSD, and it works surprisingly well. (USB 2 does not work work well.) That would be one way of avoiding taking the Mac mini apart (even though it shouldn't be that hard), while still getting much of the benefit of SSD.

FW800 real world might be slower for sequential speed than even a 7200 rpm hard drive. So why does FW800 SSD help? Cuz the latency is much, much, much lower than a hard drive. Small random reads might be as much as 50X faster than small random reads on hard drives, since hard drives are often below even 1 MB/s for this. These are my results over FW800 with a Samsung 850 EVO SSD:

View attachment 772068

The main problem with this solution is now you have a box beside the Mac mini, which defeats its sleekness. Plus the enclosure alone would cost as much as the SSD.

OWC sells a 2.5" FW800 + USB 3 enclosure for US$60 that can run off bus power but also off DC power, the latter highly recommended IMO. Add your own SSD to HUGELY increase the speed of that Mac mini. With 5 GB RAM, El Capitan will run well for light usage.

https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/MSTG800U3K/

View attachment 772066

View attachment 772067

The one I bought was the aluminum OWC Mini Pro, which kinda looks like the cheese grater Mac Pro in design, but it's too expensive for this purpose now IMO, at $88, and doesn't have USB 3, just USB 2.

https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/MEQM0GBKS/

View attachment 772064

View attachment 772065

I have Snow Leopard running off a G-DRIVE 1TB Firewire 800 external drive on my mid 2011 21.5" iMac
https://www.g-technology.com/en-gb/products/outlet/g-drive-usb-silver#0G02529

Although now old Firewire 800 can still be useful on a compatible machine and one of the advantages is the drives can be daisy chained.

 

[nagudizy]

After reading everyones tales of wonder and/or woe, my contribution:

Mac Mini (late 2012) 2.3 GHz Intel Core i7, purchased I-don't-know-when-and-can't-find-receipt. 2012? 2014? 2013?
Pokey pokey pokey, and seemingly worse with Mojave loaded up. Not running anything on startup.
Has basically always been slow. By slow, I mean, clicking on an icon to initiate a program (say, TextEdit) the icon starts bouncing, bounces for perhaps a minute (yes) or more, and finally cranks up.
Took Chrome 2 minutes and 10 seconds to load today, with no screen activity at all for the first 50 seconds.
Logging in, I typically have to wait 3-4 minutes before I can really do anything.

Hardware can and does eventually wear out. Instead of scrubbing it and installing clean OS Mojave, thinking of saying screw it and getting a new one (although it looks like new ones don't typically have 1 TB storage, just 128 or 256GB SSD).

Any thoughts on the matter? I do try to keep it up-to-date, and don't typically lard it up with extraneous stuff.

 

[kwikdeth]

After reading everyones tales of wonder and/or woe, my contribution:

Mac Mini (late 2012) 2.3 GHz Intel Core i7, purchased I-don't-know-when-and-can't-find-receipt. 2012? 2014? 2013?
Pokey pokey pokey, and seemingly worse with Mojave loaded up. Not running anything on startup.
Has basically always been slow. By slow, I mean, clicking on an icon to initiate a program (say, TextEdit) the icon starts bouncing, bounces for perhaps a minute (yes) or more, and finally cranks up.
Took Chrome 2 minutes and 10 seconds to load today, with no screen activity at all for the first 50 seconds.
Logging in, I typically have to wait 3-4 minutes before I can really do anything.

Hardware can and does eventually wear out. Instead of scrubbing it and installing clean OS Mojave, thinking of saying screw it and getting a new one (although it looks like new ones don't typically have 1 TB storage, just 128 or 256GB SSD).

Any thoughts on the matter? I do try to keep it up-to-date, and don't typically lard it up with extraneous stuff.

that is totally and completely your hard drive, and it sounds like it is either defective, or there is something extremely wrong with the disk catalog file. text edit should never take that long to open, even on a traditional hard drive. how much free hard drive space do you have available? how much RAM? I would assume that the drive is a 1TB spinner, unless you spent a *lot* of money to upgrade it at the time of purchase. 1TBs were still very expensive at that time. you would likely see a substantial performance increase by going with an SSD. luckily, the 2012s can accommodate two 2.5" drives internally so you wouldnt even have to remove the existing drive (provided there isnt something physically wrong with it)

as a start, I would suggest opening activity monitor, and setting it to open on startup so you can immediately see what the system is doing that is causing it to slow down so much. let us know what you find.

 

[fokmik]

on these days of hardware performance from one gen to another, i think a minimum update is 3-4 years, and after 6-7 years is a more must one if you need an incrementally improvement on every task

 

[nagudizy]

that is totally and completely your hard drive, and it sounds like it is either defective, or there is something extremely wrong with the disk catalog file. text edit should never take that long to open, even on a traditional hard drive. how much free hard drive space do you have available? how much RAM? I would assume that the drive is a 1TB spinner, unless you spent a *lot* of money to upgrade it at the time of purchase. 1TBs were still very expensive at that time. you would likely see a substantial performance increase by going with an SSD. luckily, the 2012s can accommodate two 2.5" drives internally so you wouldnt even have to remove the existing drive (provided there isnt something physically wrong with it)

as a start, I would suggest opening activity monitor, and setting it to open on startup so you can immediately see what the system is doing that is causing it to slow down so much. let us know what you find.

Thanks for the help. My MacMini6,2 indeed has the 1TB spinner, but that spinner has almost 850GB of free space. So, we can rule out "nearly out of space on a full drive". The device has the standard (at the time) 4GB of RAM, of which about 2.8GB is being used as I type this (including ~ 340MB used by link to this forum and Safari).

I ran Disk Utilities / First Aid on my drive and it came up with "nothing's wrong".

Thanks for the idea about running Activity Monitor and logging what's going on: that I will do.

If folks think the rest of the hardware will last a while, maybe I'll just shove an SSD in the empty slot and make it the boot drive: at least I'll get faster boots. Maybe pretty black ones with silver wings embroidered on the tops! [Back to reality]
That way, I can keep this old thing running longer, not have to buy a new one and add this one to the junk heap. I kind of hate to be adding to the "throw it away" and "buy buy buy" mentality we are surrounded by.

 

[macgeek18]

I have the same iMac, with 2GB RAM. 60GB SSD, and OSX Snow Leopard. Using ArcticFox for a web browser it still runs great!