How to make a bootable CCC backup of M2 Pro Mini?

[zgagato]

Hi guys,
Non of my mac friends have tried this on their AS.
I have a new BTO Mac mini m2 Pro. Running ventura 13.3.
I want to make a bootable copy of the OS like I did for the past 18 years on intel Macs. CCC 6 is able to do this with the legacy option.
The problem is that when i select the backup drive hold the power button and select it it tries to boot but it asks for the user password to verify something amd then it reboots and starts from the internal ssd again.

What am I doing wrong?

 

[chrfr]

Hi guys,
Non of my mac friends have tried this on their AS.
I have a new BTO Mac mini m2 Pro. Running ventura 13.3.
I want to make a bootable copy of the OS like I did for the past 18 years on intel Macs. CCC 6 is able to do this with the legacy option.
The problem is that when i select the backup drive hold the power button and select it it tries to boot but it asks for the user password to verify something amd then it reboots and starts from the internal ssd again.

What am I doing wrong?

It's not recommended to do this anymore.
Creating legacy bootable copies of macOS (Big Sur and later) | Carbon Copy Cloner | Bombich Software

For the reasons noted above, we do not recommend that you attempt to make your backups bootable; we recommend that you proceed with a "Standard Backup" instead. You can restore all of your documents, compatible applications, and settings from a standard CCC backup without the extra effort involved in establishing and maintaining a bootable device.

 

[stradify]

zgagato,
Check out this page for answers to your question: https://eclecticlight.co/?s=bootable+AS

 

[zer0ed]

Currently, Apple has an ASR bug that is preventing system files from being copied. Carbon Copy Cloner as well as all the other backup utils are currently unable to create bootable backups (last 3 OS's) on Silicon machines until Apple fixes the problem. Apple says they will fix it for now but it will probably be removed again permanently in the future, further locking things down!

From Mike Bombich's Blog:

Apple Software Restore isn't quite ready for the new Apple Silicon Mac storage​

When Apple introduced Apple Silicon Macs, we discovered another snag. The "Apple Fabric" storage in these Macs offers per-file encryption keys (like the storage in iOS devices), and for months, ASR didn't work with it. Apple partially resolved that in macOS 11.3, but even now using ASR to clone the system back to the internal storage of these Macs doesn't quite work – it causes a kernel panic.

Back in December I had a conference call with Apple about the reliability and functionality of ASR on macOS and regarding Apple Silicon Macs in particular. They indicated that they were working to resolve the ASR/Apple Fabric issue, but they made it very clear that copying macOS system files was not something that would be supportable in the future. Many of us in the Mac community could see that this was the direction Apple was moving, and now we finally have confirmation. Especially since the introduction of APFS, Apple has been moving towards a lockdown of macOS system files, sacrificing some convenience for increased security.

An Apple Silicon Mac won't boot if the internal storage has failed​

If you were making your backups bootable in case of hardware failure, then that's an extra logistical chore that you can now retire from your backup strategy.
What did come as a surprise, however, was a very subtle logistical change noted in a Product Security document published in February(link is external) regarding the new Apple Silicon Macs. A footnote at the very end of the document notes that, regardless of where the boot device is physically located, the boot process is always facilitated by a volume on the internal storage. The lightweight operating system on that volume ("iBoot") evaluates the integrity of the boot assets and authenticates the OS on that external device, then proceeds with the boot process from that external device. What does all of that mean? In theory it means that Apple Silicon Macs cannot boot at all if the internal storage fails. Lacking a Mac whose internal storage I was willing to damage to prove this, I contacted the authoritative experts within Apple in April and they unambiguously confirmed that that is the actual result – you can't boot an Apple Silicon Mac if the internal storage has died.

Apple has made clear that they will continue to support "external boot" on Apple Silicon Macs, but the reality is that it will be more limited in what it can do. If you were making your backups bootable in case of hardware failure, then that's an extra logistical chore that you can now retire from your backup strategy.

 

[Fishrrman]

Don't pay attention to chrfr's warning that "it's not recommended" (sorry on this one, chrfr).
You can still create and use a bootable external drive.

First, a VERY important question:
What KIND OF DRIVE did you use to create the backup?
Was it an SSD?
Or... was it a platter-based hard drive?

WHY I ask this:
Even though CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper can create backups on platter-based hard drives, the Mac may still refuse to boot from them. I believe this can be related to two things:
1. Drive is "seen by the Mac" as being too slow to support the functions of the OS (mainly, VM disk swapping)
or
2. Drive enclosure is incompatible in some way.

Personal experience:
When I first got my MacBook Pro 14", I tried using an old platter-based PATA/IDE drive in a USB2 enclosure to create a backup.
At first, it looked like the backup went fine (I used CCC). But when I tried to boot it... it wouldn't boot.
I tried doing it over. I tried using SD instead of CCC.
No difference. Wouldn't boot.

Then...
I took an nvme blade drive (mounted in a USB3.1 gen2 enclosure) that I had been using elsewhere, and tried that instead.
This time... it worked fine. MBP 14" can now boot and run from the external SSD.

So... again... What KIND of drive you use can "make the difference" here.
You have a better chance at getting things working when you use an SSD.

Now... to address why else you might have had problems.

Here's how I boot from the SSD, step-by-step:
(I have my MBP setup and booting as I type)
1. Mac must be powered off
2. Connect external drive
3. Press and HOLD power button down continuously
4. You will see "continue holding for startup options"
5. When you see "loading startup options" you can release button
6. Screen should show available boot drives, plus "options" (gear icon)
7. Select external drive and press "continue"

Now... I believe the first time you try to boot from the clone, you are going to be asked for an administrator name and password.

IMPORTANT:
The administrator "name" you enter is your "machine" ID, not your "sign in" name.
Example:
Suppose you set up your account with the name "John Doe" (case sensitive and a space between first and last name).
The OS will probably change this to "johndoe" -- and this is what you want to enter.
You can find this out by going to the "users & groups" settings panel, and checking the advanced options for your account (this may be changed with Ventura, I'm not using Ventura).

The password will be the same, either way.

This tripped me up, early one, as well.

Once I got this right, the external SSD booted.

Hope something here helps.

 

[chrfr]

Don't pay attention to chrfr's warning that "it's not recommended" (sorry on this one, chrfr).

that’s not my recommendation. That’s a quote from Mike Bombich, the developer of Carbon Copy Cloner.

 

[zer0ed]

Don't pay attention to chrfr's warning that "it's not recommended" (sorry on this one, chrfr).
You can still create and use a bootable external drive.

First, a VERY important question:
What KIND OF DRIVE did you use to create the backup?
Was it an SSD?
Or... was it a platter-based hard drive?

WHY I ask this:
Even though CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper can create backups on platter-based hard drives, the Mac may still refuse to boot from them. I believe this can be related to two things:
1. Drive is "seen by the Mac" as being too slow to support the functions of the OS (mainly, VM disk swapping)
or
2. Drive enclosure is incompatible in some way.

Personal experience:
When I first got my MacBook Pro 14", I tried using an old platter-based PATA/IDE drive in a USB2 enclosure to create a backup.
At first, it looked like the backup went fine (I used CCC). But when I tried to boot it... it wouldn't boot.
I tried doing it over. I tried using SD instead of CCC.
No difference. Wouldn't boot.

Then...
I took an nvme blade drive (mounted in a USB3.1 gen2 enclosure) that I had been using elsewhere, and tried that instead.
This time... it worked fine. MBP 14" can now boot and run from the external SSD.

So... again... What KIND of drive you use can "make the difference" here.
You have a better chance at getting things working when you use an SSD.

Now... to address why else you might have had problems.

Here's how I boot from the SSD, step-by-step:
(I have my MBP setup and booting as I type)
1. Mac must be powered off
2. Connect external drive
3. Press and HOLD power button down continuously
4. You will see "continue holding for startup options"
5. When you see "loading startup options" you can release button
6. Screen should show available boot drives, plus "options" (gear icon)
7. Select external drive and press "continue"

Now... I believe the first time you try to boot from the clone, you are going to be asked for an administrator name and password.

IMPORTANT:
The administrator "name" you enter is your "machine" ID, not your "sign in" name.
Example:
Suppose you set up your account with the name "John Doe" (case sensitive and a space between first and last name).
The OS will probably change this to "johndoe" -- and this is what you want to enter.
You can find this out by going to the "users & groups" settings panel, and checking the advanced options for your account (this may be changed with Ventura, I'm not using Ventura).

The password will be the same, either way.

This tripped me up, early one, as well.

Once I got this right, the external SSD booted.

Hope something here helps.

The prior comments from myself and Bombich are specifically referring to Apple Silicon machines. You can no longer create external bootable media on them until Apple fixes their ASR bug. We are also referring to Monterey and Ventura.

 

[chabig]

On Apple Silicon machines, it's not necessary to backup the operating system so there isn't a good reason to make a bootable backup because the modern macOS is immune to corruption. The SSD on your Mac already contains the bootable OS, a recovery OS, and a fallback recovery OS. The only data you need to back up is your own.

Secure Boot and disaster recovery for Apple silicon Macs

Apple silicon Macs are better-equipped to prevent and deal with disaster. Restoring in DFU mode is extremely unusual, and more powerful than anything you can do with an Intel Mac.

eclecticlight.co

Recovery on Apple silicon Macs has changed again

A new way to enter fallback Recovery can now be triggered during a restart. Here’s a full review of primary and fallback Recovery modes for M1 and M2 Macs.

eclecticlight.co

 

[zer0ed]

Sorry, I'm still not buying that the modern OS is immune to corruption. Time will tell!

 

[chabig]

It’s on a signed, sealed, immutable volume. Every machine ruining Ventura has the same operating system—but for bit. It won’t boot if even a single bit is changed.

 

[zer0ed]

It’s on a signed, sealed, immutable volume. Every machine ruining Ventura has the same operating system—but for bit. It won’t boot if even a single bit is changed.

Indeed, it won't boot. Like I said time will tell about corruption.

 

[HDFan]

I said time will tell about corruption.

APFS (which is the storage format for most Mac machines now) has been around for almost 6 years with no major reports of corruption on the boot SSD. Is that time enough?

 

[Realityck]

Hi guys,
Non of my mac friends have tried this on their AS.
I have a new BTO Mac mini m2 Pro. Running ventura 13.3.
I want to make a bootable copy of the OS like I did for the past 18 years on intel Macs. CCC 6 is able to do this with the legacy option.
The problem is that when i select the backup drive hold the power button and select it it tries to boot but it asks for the user password to verify something amd then it reboots and starts from the internal ssd again.

What am I doing wrong?

I have a Monterey/Ventura thread where I do this all the time.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macos-12-13-carbon-copy-cloner-users-thread.2302964/

Post #3 is specific to doing a limited time legacy bootable snapshot Copy.

My last post, No issues with CCC v6.1.5 (7490) and MacOS 13.4 beta 1. At least for awhile everything is good.

I regularly announce the we start seeing betas from the developer along with notes.

 

[Realityck]

Indeed, it won't boot. Like I said time will tell about corruption.

You have to give it admin permissions for an external APFS volume to boot. Do the permissions before trying to boot from by attaching it after you reboot the MacOS. There have been times where it works better and not as each beta seed is released. The last problem we had with Ventura was adding additional time after the 4 pass AFPS utility copy was so it could unmount temp and rename the volume as you selected.

The latest post has a interesting observation.

 

[zer0ed]

You have to give it admin permissions for an external APFS volume to boot. Do the permissions before trying to boot from by attaching it after you reboot the MacOS. There have been times where it works better and not as each beta seed is released. The last problem we had with Ventura was adding additional time after the 4 pass APD utility copy was so it could unmount temp and rename the volume as you selected.

The latest post has a interesting observation.

I concur with your latest post link above. Permissions isn't the problem here. This issue won't be resolved until Apple corrects their ASR bug!

 

[pshufd]

The prior comments from myself and Bombich are specifically referring to Apple Silicon machines. You can no longer create external bootable media on them until Apple fixes their ASR bug. We are also referring to Monterey and Ventura.

Could you create a bootable Big Sur on external SSD and then upgrade it to Ventura?

 

[zgagato]

Don't pay attention to chrfr's warning that "it's not recommended" (sorry on this one, chrfr).
You can still create and use a bootable external drive.

First, a VERY important question:
What KIND OF DRIVE did you use to create the backup?
Was it an SSD?
Or... was it a platter-based hard drive?

WHY I ask this:
Even though CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper can create backups on platter-based hard drives, the Mac may still refuse to boot from them. I believe this can be related to two things:
1. Drive is "seen by the Mac" as being too slow to support the functions of the OS (mainly, VM disk swapping)
or
2. Drive enclosure is incompatible in some way.

Personal experience:
When I first got my MacBook Pro 14", I tried using an old platter-based PATA/IDE drive in a USB2 enclosure to create a backup.
At first, it looked like the backup went fine (I used CCC). But when I tried to boot it... it wouldn't boot.
I tried doing it over. I tried using SD instead of CCC.
No difference. Wouldn't boot.

Then...
I took an nvme blade drive (mounted in a USB3.1 gen2 enclosure) that I had been using elsewhere, and tried that instead.
This time... it worked fine. MBP 14" can now boot and run from the external SSD.

So... again... What KIND of drive you use can "make the difference" here.
You have a better chance at getting things working when you use an SSD.

Now... to address why else you might have had problems.

Here's how I boot from the SSD, step-by-step:
(I have my MBP setup and booting as I type)
1. Mac must be powered off
2. Connect external drive
3. Press and HOLD power button down continuously
4. You will see "continue holding for startup options"
5. When you see "loading startup options" you can release button
6. Screen should show available boot drives, plus "options" (gear icon)
7. Select external drive and press "continue"

Now... I believe the first time you try to boot from the clone, you are going to be asked for an administrator name and password.

IMPORTANT:
The administrator "name" you enter is your "machine" ID, not your "sign in" name.
Example:
Suppose you set up your account with the name "John Doe" (case sensitive and a space between first and last name).
The OS will probably change this to "johndoe" -- and this is what you want to enter.
You can find this out by going to the "users & groups" settings panel, and checking the advanced options for your account (this may be changed with Ventura, I'm not using Ventura).

The password will be the same, either way.

This tripped me up, early one, as well.

Once I got this right, the external SSD booted.

Hope something here helps.

my username is 1 short word in lowercase. its the same in advanced, right click in users & groups in ventura. the same it has always been.
So when you say: "The administrator "name" you enter is your "machine" ID, not your "sign in" name."
what do u mean?
Lets name the account "user" in lower case.
But entering user and its password doesn’t work.

 

[zer0ed]

Folks, let me repeat this again, there is a bug in Apple's ASR that prevents creating bootable external backups on Silicon Macs. Until that is fixed by Apple you won't be able to make one in Monterey or Ventura, using any of the backup programs like CCC or SD, period!

 

[Apple_Robert]

A bootable backup of a M series Mac is not needed. I don't know why people keep posting about this.

If the SSD goes bad, the M series Mac will not boot. If you had a bootable drive, it wouldn't matter.

The OS drive is sealed and does not contain personal user data. It doesn't get corrupt. At this point in time, there is no such thing as the OS getting updated with an infected update or some other OS malicious code that so many here are fretting over. The Mac performs a self-audit every time it boots as well as every time a system update is performed.

Stop wasting time with Intel type mentality and focus on backing up personal data. The OS can easily be reinstalled on a working SSD and personal data migrated.

 

[pshufd]

Folks, let me repeat this again, there is a bug in Apple's ASR that prevents creating bootable external backups on Silicon Macs. Until that is fixed by Apple you won't be able to make one in Monterey or Ventura, using any of the backup programs like CCC or SD, period!

So can you make a bootable external SSD Big Sur and then upgrade it to Ventura?

 

[chrfr]

Folks, let me repeat this again, there is a bug in Apple's ASR that prevents creating bootable external backups on Silicon Macs. Until that is fixed by Apple you won't be able to make one in Monterey or Ventura, using any of the backup programs like CCC or SD, period!

While outsiders may think ASR is broken, it's not at all clear that Apple agrees nor that it intends to fix it, and it's foolish to expect they will. Given the existence of the sealed system volume, there really is no need for a bootable backup anymore, especially with Apple Silicon.

 

[zer0ed]

While outsiders may think ASR is broken, it's not at all clear that Apple agrees nor that it intends to fix it, and it's foolish to expect they will. Given the existence of the sealed system volume, there really is no need for a bootable backup anymore, especially with Apple Silicon.

Not according to Mike Bombich!

From Mike Bombich's Blog:

Apple Software Restore isn't quite ready for the new Apple Silicon Mac storage​

When Apple introduced Apple Silicon Macs, we discovered another snag. The "Apple Fabric" storage in these Macs offers per-file encryption keys (like the storage in iOS devices), and for months, ASR didn't work with it. Apple partially resolved that in macOS 11.3, but even now using ASR to clone the system back to the internal storage of these Macs doesn't quite work – it causes a kernel panic.

Back in December I had a conference call with Apple about the reliability and functionality of ASR on macOS and regarding Apple Silicon Macs in particular. They indicated that they were working to resolve the ASR/Apple Fabric issue, but they made it very clear that copying macOS system files was not something that would be supportable in the future. Many of us in the Mac community could see that this was the direction Apple was moving, and now we finally have confirmation. Especially since the introduction of APFS, Apple has been moving towards a lockdown of macOS system files, sacrificing some convenience for increased security.

 

[zer0ed]

It may not be necessary but the process now tacks on an extra step of having to reload the OS from scratch for a clean restore, then migrate ones data instead of just being able to restore it all from a bootable backup! Yes, I know the OS shouldn't have to be reloaded because it doesn't get corrupted etc...

 

[chrfr]

Not according to Mike Bombich!

From Mike Bombich's Blog:

Apple Software Restore isn't quite ready for the new Apple Silicon Mac storage​

When Apple introduced Apple Silicon Macs, we discovered another snag. The "Apple Fabric" storage in these Macs offers per-file encryption keys (like the storage in iOS devices), and for months, ASR didn't work with it. Apple partially resolved that in macOS 11.3, but even now using ASR to clone the system back to the internal storage of these Macs doesn't quite work – it causes a kernel panic.

Back in December I had a conference call with Apple about the reliability and functionality of ASR on macOS and regarding Apple Silicon Macs in particular. They indicated that they were working to resolve the ASR/Apple Fabric issue, but they made it very clear that copying macOS system files was not something that would be supportable in the future. Many of us in the Mac community could see that this was the direction Apple was moving, and now we finally have confirmation. Especially since the introduction of APFS, Apple has been moving towards a lockdown of macOS system files, sacrificing some convenience for increased security.

You bolded the wrong part. This is the key statement here: "they made it very clear that copying macOS system files was not something that would be supportable in the future."

 

[chabig]

It may not be necessary but the process now tacks on an extra step of having to reload the OS from scratch for a clean restore, then migrate ones data instead of just being able to restore it all from a bootable backup! Yes, I know the OS shouldn't have to be reloaded because it doesn't get corrupted etc...

Incorrect. The OS never needs to be reinstalled because it's always "clean".