Nope, if HP was selling Mac OS X with it's machines they'd want the same amount of profit margin that Apple is getting.
They'd price their machines at the same, or close to what Apple is selling their machines for.
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HP files lawsuit against Microsoft, and considers abandoning Windows all together !
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Nope, if HP was selling Mac OS X with it's machines they'd want the same amount of profit margin that Apple is getting.
They'd price their machines at the same, or close to what Apple is selling their machines for.
That's true.
I just have a conundrum. I prefer standard PC hardware, and I prefer the Apple OS.
Don't worry, all of those in the "Know" do.
I would have said the same thing if I didn't read a very very VERY good discussion about it on these forums.
And it's currently a general/accepted fact that Apple leverages OSX to raise the price of pretty much ordinary hardware.
You bring up a point I never thought about. I wonder, if HP does try to adapt Linux based OSes for their machines and even gave it the support of major 3rd party apps, would the average user want to have to choose between 3 different operating systems.
As geeks we may find it very interesting, but I wonder what the average user may think about it.....
Then again, something similar has been done before.
HP has their own OS: HP-UX. Of course, getting user-based application support would be interesting to say the least.
I think they'll stick with MS. They would need to get Linux support scaled up very quickly to handle it. Besides, users who are used to Windows will leave HP behind if HP tries to force them to switch. It'll take many manufacturers pulling together to ditch Microsoft.
I think they'll stick with MS. They would need to get Linux support scaled up very quickly to handle it. Besides, users who are used to Windows will leave HP behind if HP tries to force them to switch. It'll take many manufacturers pulling together to ditch Microsoft.
Exactly. HP and some of the other big OEMs have chafed under Microsoft's yoke in the past, but they have never broken loose. In fact, they've never even tried. The reason? They simply can't. Their business is reselling Windows. What are they going to do, stop?
The boldest move I could see them making would be to make a sub-line of HP-Supported Linux PCs, and adding that to their current lineup. If these PCs do even modestly well, MS will feel it.
Thing is, and this is why I can't totally dismiss this as a fantasy, this is not totally unlike HP to do something like this. As a rule, HP will try new and wacky products, so long as they don't exist at the expense of their existing line. The money saved on Windows licenses could easily offset the added cost of keeping a few extra SKUs in inventory.
Even if this were to fail, it'd likely be a very cheap failure. Is HP going to dump Windows? Crap no! But might they experiment with other options? I'd say it's something they want to do.
Agreed.
This is a strategy and nothing more.
HP's departure from MS would only server to build up Dell's presence in the marketplace. It would be suicidal, since it would just confuse the consumer and the consumer would go elsewhere.
Apple might benefit from some of the backlash, but for the most part, the major Vista issues have been corrected in the consumer lines.
HP sells Windows PCs because there's a demand for Windows PCs. Simply selling the same boxes with Linux installed is not going to create a demand for Linux boxes. Companies like HP might like to experiment, and to distance themselves from Microsoft, but they really don't have any realistic opportunities for doing so -- or they would have already.
HP won't give up Windows - that would be the end of them if they did.
I can see them doing more bundling with Linux, as it's a bit cheaper and consumers are starting to pinch pennies.
It would be more of a major blow if Steve Jobs decides to make iTunes and QuickTime for Linux so you can use your iPod/iPhone on those sytems.
Then, who would REALLY need Microsoft (unless you have a Zune, of course...)
I can see them doing more bundling with Linux, as it's a bit cheaper and consumers are starting to pinch pennies.
It would be more of a major blow if Steve Jobs decides to make iTunes and QuickTime for Linux so you can use your iPod/iPhone on those sytems.
Then, who would REALLY need Microsoft (unless you have a Zune, of course...)
Unless Linux has sufficient market share, it would make no sense for Apple to do this. Why open up a war on another front and add to your development costs?
You are only 3/4 right. HP will not abandon Windows and yes the cost of building other OSes is high
But as for developing their own OS. They already have done that several times over HP sells and supports several non-Windows OSes. HP-UX is one and Open VMS is the other. (there are some minor ones too.) They also sell Linux based machines but HP did not develop Linux.
Look on the hp.com web site. And you will find two entire "ecosystems" of OSes and software. training and support classes and on-site services and consulting all based in non-Windows, non-linux OSes that were developed by HP.
You were also 100% correct when you wrote "The infrastructure that HP would need is staggering" Yes it is staggering. thousands of people are involved.
Check it out on HP's own web site
http://h20338.www2.hp.com/hpux11i/cache/324545-0-0-0-121.html
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/
Remember when HP bought DEC? DEC was one of those older computer companies. In those days all computer companies bullt their own CPUs, computers and wrote their own OSes and most of the software. They were like Apple in the PPC days. Now Apple, Sun, IBM and maybe HP are the only ones left who can build everything from the ground up There used to be dozens of companies like that.
My favorite was Symbolics. I actually used and programmed Symbolics Lisp Machine, SGI workstation running Irix,a VAX/VMS, Univac and CDC Cyber 6400, Perkin Elmers and so on. It would really be nice to see a few dozen OSes back on the market again. Actually we still have this when you move away from the desktop and sever markets and get into embedded computing and DSP
True, but I don't think it works to compare desktop computers to minicomputers and mainframes, especially not to days of yore (which I remember all to well) when these computers were not called upon to do the wide variety of tasks that PCs are today. The real issue is not so much developing and supporting the OS, difficult as that may be, but in developing the shelf of high-quality, widely-used applications that people expect to have for their PCs. Even Apple, with its long track record with the Mac, and the thousands of software titles available, in the eyes of many, suffers in comparison to Windows in this respect. As much as it would be great to see many more operating systems on the market again, I think we have to acknowledge the vast difficulties involved in doing so successfully.
HP doesn't need to create demand for Linux PCs, that demand is already there, albeit in small numbers. There are customers who actually would like a prebuilt PC with Linux preloaded, and there are also customers that could be talked into it if they're presented with the option. HP is in business to help HP, not MS, and if MS starts affecting HP's bottom line, they will seek alternatives.
I'm not saying this is a bulletproof business move-- it carries risks like any other. What I am saying is that it does make sense for HP to put this option on the table, and that it's not unlike them to try something like this.
Hasn't Dell offered Linux preinstalled on PCs for some time? I know they did for a while at least. Others have, certainly -- I've seen these products advertised. The fact is, it hasn't caught on in the PC buying world, and I don't see how HP could change all of that. I mean, good luck to them if they want to try. They're going to need it, especially if Microsoft decides to punish them for wandering off the reservation.
A particullary dark period of time in
history IMO. While I don't hold companies to the same standards as my friends and family, I have come to abhor lying regardless of it's source.
Agreed!
Dell won't go there, but it is fun to speculate.
For those that don't know, Microsoft has a full IP License to OpenVMS. Cutler worked on early verions of VMS at DEC and since the VMS guys can do some pretty incredible stuff, MS went ahead and licensed the IP.
HP also owns the old Tandem non-stop OS, HP/UX and a host of others. I believe they (actually DEC / Digital Unix) were part of the MACH committee back in the day. I believe that Digital Unix / BSD / OS X are all based on MACH microkernel or used to be.
Where is the reality in all of this?
The power of any OS is to garner developer support in creating applications for that platform. Given that, Microsoft and .NET are the premier (God I hate saying that) Front end development platform in big business. Web development for internal apps is probably a distant second with custom platforms even further back. I don't see HP being able gather enough support to do anything significant to bring in ISV support.
Linux is getting closer every day, but most will never make that leap of faith. Dell tested the waters, but I don't think they sell Linux PC's anymore do they?
Apple is growing mainly because of the switch to Intel and those shiny happy Apple stores. Apple can run MS Office, which is huge. Don't underestimate the power of Microsofts consumer mindshare. Apple also has some big niche markets (publishing / video) which are now considered mainstream. A few years ago, people weren't making videos of themselves and posting on youtube.
Would Apple ever consider licensing OS X? I doubt it... The one exception would be for cross licensing of technologies and worldwide support. HP is one of those organizations that bought into several very large support organizations. Apple can't succeed in the global business world because they don't have the support infrastructure to handle that.
In the old days when MS was growing, they enlisted the help of the big ISV's (HP, DEC, Compaq, others) to provide the hardware, but also to provide support for MS products. That was the real start of the MS Certifications, led mainly by Compaq at the time. MS grew, because the big vendors were now selling MS software into their corporate customers and doing the OS support which MS could never have handled on their own. It was win-win at the time, because the vendors could sell their value-added services at a nice premium and customers got large scale deployment and support of the desktop.
Apple would need help from the ISV's to do a big global push.
I don't think that's Apple nor Steve's style. It goes against everything he believes in.
As far as controlling the hardware, Apple is into syle and aestetics of its hardware. HP (and Dell for that matter) can build anything that Apple can and to Apple's standards if need be, but they don't bring that style to the table. It would also undercut Apples core business as people would line up in droves at Walmart to buy $299 Dell OS X machines on Black Friday. They would have a hard time selling those higher end iMacs and Macbooks.
On the contrary. HP's Pavilion laptops as of late have been extremely stylish and cutting edge on design with their housing imprinting. Their notebook designs are also quite high in quality.
I've been impressed.
I've been impressed.