Huge problem! Fake "free" activation!

[ccrandall77]

1) Your brother 14, a minor, is not competent to make a contract. That alone should make the contact invalid.

I have 2 problems with this whole situation.

First, as pointed out above, a 14 y/o usually cannot enter into a legal contract by themselves. IANAL, but I just took and insurance law course and at least in that industry an insurance policy requires an adult to sign the policy.

A few years back, Cingular sent my wife's aunt and uncle a piece of junk mail advertising their service. They were out of town at the time and someone stole their mail while they were away. The thief used personal info they obtained from the mail he stole to set up a Cingular account in their name. A while later, a bill for $1800 showed up. They disputed it with Cingular, but they wouldn't budge. Since they were in the process of securing a loan for a new home, they relented and paid so as not to affect their credit rating.

How can Cingular hold anyone to a contract if they never signed the contract? I believe with Sprint, a long time ago, they used a 3rd party and recorded my voice when I signed up over the phone... but I'm not sure of that. And if Cingular did do that, then they should've been able to go back to that recording. But still, any of these methods that allows you to enter a contract like this w/o verification are unsettling to me.

Second, what if someone accidentally entered the wrong SSN and it happened to go through. Then you forgot the SSN you incorrectly entered? Are we saying here that at least in that event you could go to the AT&T store to get the mess straightened out?

 

[ukor]

You should contact your credit card company immediately and report the card stolen. They will be able to help you with ATT in most cases. As others suggested you should send ATT something in writing explaining the situation. Communication in writing carries a lot more weight.

 

[lag1090]

Dictionary says

Fraud
Intentional deception resulting in injury to another, as when a person makes false statements, conceals or omits material facts.

Last time I checked, any common dictionary, not even the OED or Webster's, is the word of the US Justice Department.

 

[asxtb]

Yeah you both did actually. You got phones under false pretenses

Buying an iPhone with no intention to activate it does not constitute fraud.

The kid being a minor doesn't make any difference. The contract has no standing because they are in the Domican Republic.... By the way I bet his credit card company would appreciate knowing he does not live in the US either. That is not some convenience feature to get a credit card, he fraudulently set that up as well. This guys life revolves around committing fraud.

Actually you have no idea what his situation is. Maybe he has a mailing address because he goes to school in America. Since he's not a citizen he has no right to a cell phone? Or a mailing address?

And again, I highly doubt his credit card companies care if his permanent address is in the Dominican Republic. If he has a US mailing address and pays his bills they won't care. I live in Japan and have a US mailing address and US credit cards... Oh my, I'm committing fraud!

Maybe you should learn what fraud is before you go accusing someone of it.

 

[diabolic]

Buying an iPhone with no intention to activate it does not constitute fraud.

Using a fake SSN to get through the activation process probably does.

 

[asxtb]

Using a fake SSN to get through the activation process probably does.

Yes. But just buying an iPhone does not, regardless of what country you are from.

 

[devilot]

I would close this thread now, but the OP hasn't had a chance to come back and read some of the more relevant posts yet.

So folks? Let's just back off the fraud talk for the time being. If anyone has any helpful suggestions for the OP, then by all means, make 'em known. If anyone is so incensed by the thought of possible fraud, feel free to create your own thread in a more appropriate forum. Thanks.

 

[kalisphoenix]

My opinion of the OP has been severely damaged by the posts of some here, who made unfounded and unwarranted accusations. I suggest that the OP start suing people for libel

 

[bostonte]

I would call back and make them immediately transfer you to a supervisor. Then explain a phone was fradulently activated by your younger brother in your name and you do not know what SSN he used. I cannot believe that AT&T wouldn't be so concerned as to cancel everything to avoid the obvious problems -- especially since you are still within the period you can cancel for any reason anyways.

Keep it to fraud happening to YOU so they will listen. But please make sure they know the SSN is false at some point in the call so they can fix that.

If you are nice yet firm, you can get past the "gatekeeper question" of last 4 of ssn.

And or try interrogating the younger brother more. The odds of a "random" ssn being valid and passing the credit check are slim. I would guess he at a minimum found a site with information to make educated guesses -- and maybe he's just afraid to come clean about where the number really came from.

 

[RedTomato]

I would call back and make them immediately transfer you to a supervisor. Then explain a phone was fradulently activated by your younger brother in your name and you do not know what SSN he used.

Keep it to fraud happening to YOU so they will listen.

In my humble opinion, and I am no expert on this, I would avoid saying 'fraud' as then it becomes a criminal matter, and AT&T may then require a police report / crime report number. This does not seem to be a fruitful path for you to take.

I cannot believe that AT&T wouldn't be so concerned as to cancel everything to avoid the obvious problems -- especially since you are still within the period you can cancel for any reason anyways.

But please make sure they know the SSN is false at some point in the call so they can fix that.

If you are nice yet firm, you can get past the "gatekeeper question" of last 4 of ssn.

Agree. Maybe stick to saying you/your brother made a mistake in the number or completely cocked it up somehow.

And or try interrogating the younger brother more. The odds of a "random" ssn being valid and passing the credit check are slim. I would guess he at a minimum found a site with information to make educated guesses -- and maybe he's just afraid to come clean about where the number really came from.

Agree. Hope this is a 'relevant and helpful post'? eh Devilot?

 

[marksman]

Maybe you should learn what fraud is before you go accusing someone of it.

I know what fraud is and everything he has done, including the credit card set up is fraud. He is not some expat. He has a US mailing address for his credit card so he could defraud the credit card company to giving him credit they would not have extended to him in the Domincan Republic.

 

[feelthefire]

How can Cingular hold anyone to a contract if they never signed the contract? I believe with Sprint, a long time ago, they used a 3rd party and recorded my voice when I signed up over the phone... but I'm not sure of that. And if Cingular did do that, then they should've been able to go back to that recording. But still, any of these methods that allows you to enter a contract like this w/o verification are unsettling to me.?

The wonder of the federal regulations around "e-sigs" make it possible to consider any entry made of your name online to constitute a binding signature. Usually there is a very fine print disclaimer to this effect. When this guy's nephew or whatever put in his name, it was the equivalent of him signing that name to the paper contract. Whether that constitutes forgery is another question entirely.

If you're interested, this definition of an electronic signature comes from the ESIGN act, Section 106:

"(4) ELECTRONIC RECORD- The term `electronic record' means a contract or other record created, generated, sent, communicated, received, or stored by electronic means.
(5) ELECTRONIC SIGNATURE- The term `electronic signature' means an electronic sound, symbol, or process, attached to or logically associated with a contract or other record and executed or adopted by a person with the intent to sign the record."

That is how you can sign a contract without speaking to a live person or having any hard paper record.

 

[RedTomato]

I know what fraud is and everything he has done, including the credit card set up is fraud. He is not some expat. He has a US mailing address for his credit card so he could defraud the credit card company to giving him credit they would not have extended to him in the Domincan Republic.

He never said he brought it on credit. He has said that if necessary, he will pay the full two years contract.

I used to have a credit card myself, and I always kept a positive balance on it. I know it's an alien concept to many people.

I feel you're being overjudgemental, and refusing to help him sort out what could become a problem to some other guy. Ok so he's been a pillock, I agree with you there. But he made the effort to come back to this forum and admit his mistakes and ask for help to stop the harm spreading.

If someone came to you and said their sister was on fire, would you stand there and abuse them for letting their sister play with matches, or would you sort out the problem first and save the abuse for later?

 

[devilot]

Mmkay, enough's enough and the OP's been on again. I'll assume s/he has read this thread and would have responded had s/he felt compelled to.