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JeepGuy

macrumors 6502
Sep 24, 2008
332
110
Barrie
There's a question about it for those to whom $200 is a lot of money. They still have to weigh the cost against the benefits, if any, no way around it.
If $200 is going to cause some kind of hardship, then maybe they shouldn't be spending $999 either, it's not like their older mac's will suddenly stop working. It just seems like everyone is rushing to jump on these M1's without having a real need. If you really have a need and you are just a light duty user that's a different situation.

Don't get me wrong I'm very excited for these new macs, but they don't have a configuration that I want, and I'm not jumping onboard just for the sake of it.
 

jgorman

macrumors regular
Jul 16, 2019
186
108
I think there are reasonable arguments for either configuration, so it would be really up to the individual.

For example, one person may be put off by paying Apple $200 for an 8GB memory upgrade, but another person may have no problem with it. Just as a matter of psychology, a person may feel like Apple is taking them for a ride around Central Park a few times with this pricing.

Further, if the base model goes on sale, then the relative cost of the memory upgrade goes up. When Amazon takes $100 off the price of the base model, if you opt to buy the same model with a memory upgrade from Apple, that 8GB memory upgrade becomes $300.

On the topic of resale, I think it is reasonable to expect to recoup some of the upgrade cost when reselling the machine in a few years. However, if you never paid the upgrade cost in the first place, you would have saved the whole $200. In fact, you would have more than $200 in a few years, if you consider inflation and/or if you keep the money in an interest-bearing account.

These are great machines, so I think it depends on your usage.
 
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whiteonline

macrumors 6502a
Aug 19, 2011
633
463
California, USA
Just my thoughts: I sold all my Intel MBP kit, inc a BM eGpu, and replaced them with a MBP 13 M1 standard configuration. I was wondered about the lack of 4 TB3 ports, but it hasn't been an issue as I purchased a Caldigit TB3 Plus Dock, and it is superb!

Having watched numerous reviews and videos and due to the new way the M1 uses memory, I only think those that do heavy video editing will benefit from the 16GB model, and this maybe overkill as Apple makes tweaks to the OS and Firmware. For me its photo editing, and the 8GB model seems to be holding up fine.

Would be interested in any other photo editors that have a different opinion,

Regards
I'm in the same situation as you. There is so much RAM paranoia (and disinformation) in this forum.
8GB appears to perform more than adequately for photo editing/retouching. The OS is doing a great job of managing any limitations.

Performing serious photo compositing with tons of layers and smart objects, or massive image stacking requires more than 16GB anyway.
 

Sanpete

macrumors 68040
Nov 17, 2016
3,695
1,665
Utah
If $200 is going to cause some kind of hardship, then maybe they shouldn't be spending $999 either, it's not like their older mac's will suddenly stop working. It just seems like everyone is rushing to jump on these M1's without having a real need. If you really have a need and you are just a light duty user that's a different situation.

Don't get me wrong I'm very excited for these new macs, but they don't have a configuration that I want, and I'm not jumping onboard just for the sake of it.
It's not a moral issue. Actually, old Macs do suddenly stop working, or more often become less efficient. Students have to buy a new machine for college, people have to buy a new machine for new work, or to make current work more efficient, etc. People want a better machine just to enjoy it, but have a tight budget. Etc. Odd to me that it's an issue whether $200 is a significant factor for many to consider in these decisions.

I don't follow how your last remark relates to what I've said, but of course no one is suggesting you should buy a configuration you don't want.
 
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aajeevlin

macrumors 65816
Mar 25, 2010
1,427
715
Let us know how it goes - if you really see any difference in your use case
I have the 8/256 Mac mini very impressed still, although I have a 16/512 on the way. I'm now more concerned with the storage than the RAM (iMessage sync alone took 12-15GB was not counting on that). For now I have Xcode (for light iOS development), Intellij running my side project not continuously but it's opened, but when I run it's usually heavy math related computation (simulation), but not with large data set. WhatsApp, Spotify, Safari 25 tabs, running Resilio sync (a sync software in the background), Discord. I'm usually at 6.4GB and 2GB swap. No slow down, I have seen couple red here and there but very rarely. I have even had more tab and with Youtube playing.

I'm still trying to figure out what I want to do with it, but I'm almost at the point to go with 16/512 just because I'm super impressed with the performance and I think it's worth keeping it for around 5 or so years. My previous machine was a Mac Pro 2009 and MacBook Pro 13 2011. I would have kept both machine but I'm starting to look at Xcode for iOS development and Catalina or later OS is needed.
 

JeepGuy

macrumors 6502
Sep 24, 2008
332
110
Barrie
It's not a moral issue. Actually, old Macs do suddenly stop working, or more often become less efficient. Students have to buy a new machine for college, people have to buy a new machine for new work, or to make current work more efficient, etc. People want a better machine just to enjoy it, but have a tight budget. Etc. Odd to me that it's an issue whether $200 is a significant factor for many to consider in these decisions.
I can understand if you really need it, and your on a tight budget, but it may not always be the right fit.
I don't follow how your last remark relates to what I've said, but of course no one is suggesting you should buy a configuration you don't want.
It's not directed at you, but only a comment in regards to people picking up the 8gb model only because they don't want to wait 2-5 weeks for the 16gb models, which I find odd.
 

Paul1980

macrumors regular
Nov 15, 2020
115
97
United Kingdom
I can understand if you really need it, and your on a tight budget, but it may not always be the right fit.

It's not directed at you, but only a comment in regards to people picking up the 8gb model only because they don't want to wait 2-5 weeks for the 16gb models, which I find odd.

Aren’t people who have picked up the 8gb models just returning them when the 16gb ships? I know that’s what I’m doing
 

JeepGuy

macrumors 6502
Sep 24, 2008
332
110
Barrie
Aren’t people who have picked up the 8gb models just returning them when the 16gb ships? I know that’s what I’m doing
It still seems odd, that you would pick up an the 8gb, even though you really want the 16gb, I can understand if you discovered the 8gb didn't meet your needs, and your returning it, it just seems like a waste of time to me to go through all that trouble.
 

Paul1980

macrumors regular
Nov 15, 2020
115
97
United Kingdom
It still seems odd, that you would pick up an the 8gb, even though you really want the 16gb, I can understand if you discovered the 8gb didn't meet your needs, and your returning it, it just seems like a waste of time to me to go through all that trouble.
I guess it depends what type of user you are. I think the hype around the M1 has made people a little impatient and they want to see what all the fuss is about. I honestly made a mistake when ordering and realised quickly the 16gb was the one I wanted. I wish it was because I'm a power user but its just because having 16gb makes me feel better!
 
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Booji

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Nov 17, 2011
793
519
Tokyo
I guess it depends what type of user you are. I think the hype around the M1 has made people a little impatient and they want to see what all the fuss is about. I honestly made a mistake when ordering and realised quickly the 16gb was the one I wanted. I wish it was because I'm a power user but its just because having 16gb makes me feel better!

After going back and forth, cancelling two orders I finally decided on the 16GB. For the simple reason that it just feels too weird (and risky) in 2020 to order a new computer with only 8GB - the same that my two-year-old Android phone has. The 8GB could probably work though in the short term.
 

Paul1980

macrumors regular
Nov 15, 2020
115
97
United Kingdom
After going back and forth, cancelling two orders I finally decided on the 16GB. For the simple reason that it just feels too weird (and risky) in 2020 to order a new computer with only 8GB - the same that my two-year-old Android phone has. The 8GB could probably work though in the short term.

That is exactly the same as me. I cancelled the 16gb order and have now reordered it. Just feels right!
 

SuperMikey

macrumors newbie
Nov 18, 2020
18
15
This really is the big question. I can see them having only standard configs for the laptops and perhaps for a lot/most of the iMacs, but not really the iMac Pro and certainly the Mac Pro. There are high-end uses where they want well in excess of 64gb, heck, up to 1.5tb on the mac pro. It doesn't seem possible/likely to provide for that without some kind of DIMM, at some point expense of putting all on 'chip' just gets too crazy.

They probably could dedicate the on-board (on system on a chip) memory for use as a fast memory cache - but it would need some kind of cache management software/logic, and that has its own overhead. Overhead's not the end of the world of course, but at some point the overhead eats up the speed advantages.

On the other hand, it's apple and they control the operating system and SoC. I think traditionally ram has almost always been assumed to be same speed (after the established on-chip caches); perhaps apple has a plan or way to use two different types/speeds of ram without formally treating as a cache but allowing for different speeds and 'nudging' more important data onto the on-chip ram.

Perhaps they have simpler solutions in mind; I suppose you could do worse than extending the concept / use of ramdisks, with some APIs for developers that really have the need.
Bit of aside, but it wouldn’t be the first time for that kind of pattern, see XBox One and its DDR/ESRAM combo: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013...imilar-specs-but-the-devils-in-the-details/2/
 
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Herrpod

macrumors 65816
May 29, 2019
1,000
1,979
After going back and forth, cancelling two orders I finally decided on the 16GB. For the simple reason that it just feels too weird (and risky) in 2020 to order a new computer with only 8GB - the same that my two-year-old Android phone has. The 8GB could probably work though in the short term.
It'll work in the long term too. People have been saying for years that 8 is insufficient, and here we still are with 8gb being the perfect amount for the vast majority of users.
 

Herrpod

macrumors 65816
May 29, 2019
1,000
1,979
If the M1 is to keep for 4 or 5 years 16Gb is the way to go. I was undecided, but I finally reached a conclusion.
Why? What's going to happen in 5 years? Such a ridiculous argument to try to talk people into wasting an extra 200 dollars. If you don't have the need for 16 now, you most likely won't have the need in the foreseeable future either. Odds are most people will upgrade their computers for other reasons that have nothing to do with memory. New screen tech, better processors etc etc. Seems dumb to overspend on memory you absolutely don't need now out of some weird fear that you might need it later.
 

Sanpete

macrumors 68040
Nov 17, 2016
3,695
1,665
Utah
Why? What's going to happen in 5 years? Such a ridiculous argument to try to talk people into wasting an extra 200 dollars. If you don't have the need for 16 now, you most likely won't have the need in the foreseeable future either. Odds are most people will upgrade their computers for other reasons that have nothing to do with memory. New screen tech, better processors etc etc. Seems dumb to overspend on memory you absolutely don't need now out of some weird fear that you might need it later.
Not dumb if they don't mind spending the money for a higher sense of security. Security is worth something. Some on both sides here have a tendency to think the subjective preferences of the other side are dumb.
 
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BeatCrazy

macrumors 603
Jul 20, 2011
5,125
4,487
Why? What's going to happen in 5 years? Such a ridiculous argument to try to talk people into wasting an extra 200 dollars. If you don't have the need for 16 now, you most likely won't have the need in the foreseeable future either. Odds are most people will upgrade their computers for other reasons that have nothing to do with memory. New screen tech, better processors etc etc. Seems dumb to overspend on memory you absolutely don't need now out of some weird fear that you might need it later.

This right here.

3 years ago, I bought a 2017 12" Retina MacBook. I spec'd it with 16GB of RAM in attempts to "future proof" it :( Skip ahead three years, and a base $999 Air will run circles around it. I don't recall a time in particular where 16GB would have made my computing experience any better than 8GB. I should have saved that $200 up front, as there's no way the resale value will be improved by even $50.
 
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JeepGuy

macrumors 6502
Sep 24, 2008
332
110
Barrie
This right here.

3 years ago, I bought a 2017 12" Retina MacBook. I spec'd it with 16GB of RAM in attempts to "future proof" it :( Skip ahead three years, and a base $999 Air will run circles around it. I don't recall a time in particular where 16GB would have made my computing experience any better than 8GB. I should have saved that $200 up front, as there's no way the resale value will be improved by even $50.
This is a major tech shift, which effects anyone who just recently bought an Intel Mac, so for them there is no future. Future proof is something that is always over used, there is no real future proof, there will always be something better on the horizon, all we can hope for is that what we buy today doesn't become obsolete too quickly.
 
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madat42

macrumors 6502
Mar 25, 2011
326
128
It sounds like native Apple Silicon apps could take advantage of the extra memory - it's what this YouTube video implies:
. It's in the context of gaming - Baldur's Gate 3 was recently patched with M1 optimizations but possibly still running via Rosetta. However, those M1 bits uses extra RAM and allows the game to run with high-quality textures. It's like having more memory on your dedicated graphics card. Anyway, makes me think about exchanging for 16GB if I want to do serious gaming with AAA titles.
 
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RobbieTT

macrumors 6502a
Apr 3, 2010
576
830
United Kingdom
If cost and value are a concern then base-spec on a new model is where the performance, value and resale potential are at their best.

Money saved by not 'future proofing' should actually be saved, ready for the release of the next generation base-spec base model.

Almost without fail* that future base-spec will run rings around a machine that someone who spent all the extra money on in an effort to 'future proof'.

For those with specific needs will know what they are and will buy what they need.

* Every rule has an exception and Apple managed it with the switch from the 2012 Mac mini to the terrible 2014 model.
 

Paul1980

macrumors regular
Nov 15, 2020
115
97
United Kingdom
Why? What's going to happen in 5 years? Such a ridiculous argument to try to talk people into wasting an extra 200 dollars. If you don't have the need for 16 now, you most likely won't have the need in the foreseeable future either. Odds are most people will upgrade their computers for other reasons that have nothing to do with memory. New screen tech, better processors etc etc. Seems dumb to overspend on memory you absolutely don't need now out of some weird fear that you might need it later.
So in 5 years which will perform better? 8gb or 16gb? Whether that performance is worth $200 is completely down to the individual and their opinion of their needs.
 

Herrpod

macrumors 65816
May 29, 2019
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Not dumb if they don't mind spending the money for a higher sense of security. Security is worth something. Some on both sides here have a tendency to think the subjective preferences of the other side are dumb.
"Future proofing" is indeed dumb. 200 dollars for ram isn't going to add the features to the computer that future computers are going to have that will actually render your current computer obsolete, or at the very least - less attractive.
 

Herrpod

macrumors 65816
May 29, 2019
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So in 5 years which will perform better? 8gb or 16gb? Whether that performance is worth $200 is completely down to the individual and their opinion of their needs.
The computers that came out every year after the year you bought yours will perform better. You can't future proof a computer! It's never been done.
 
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