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I dont like my SRMB ......
- Thread starter byke
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Wow, talk about spreading lies. This is one thing I dislike greatly about being part of the "Mac community". You have people like this spreading FUD.
First of all, ALL of Vista Ultimate's features work fine on systems that meet the minimum requirements. You'd be hard pressed to find a system that meets the minimum requirements and has a hard time running Vista Ultimate's extra features, especially the graphics based extra features. All of that is based on pixel shaders, and any card that has PS 2.0 can run that stuff fluidly.
Secondly, Vista Ultimate OEM (same as retail, but can only be installed on one motherboard.. but an unlimited number of installs on that one motherboard) can be had for $179 from newegg. Vista Home Premium OEM can be had for $111.
Third, you DO NOT need drivers for projectors, monitors, or even HDTVs. I hook my HP dv6500t notebook up to my 37" LCD TV through HDMI (when was the last time a Mac had HDMI without adapters?) without any kind of special drivers, configurations or anything. When I connect it running Vista, a little screen appears asking me if I want to use a clone mode, extended desktop, or use it as my primary screen. In XP, nothing happens.. I just have to right click on the desktop, click properties, and select it as my monitor. But once I've done that the first time, it will do it EVERY TIME I connect it to that display. So, lets say I were to connect it to the same projector quite often.. All I'd have to do is select it as my primary display that one single time. Then every time after that, Windows will automatically switch to it with the same resolution/display settings as before without a problem.
If I wanted to connect my MacBook to my HDTV, I'd have to buy the little breakout box (the mini-DVI to DVI or VGA adapter) and then I'd either need an additional VGA cable, or a DVI to HDMI adapter. With my HP I connect it and its all done automatically. No extra adapters, nothing. Plus I get audio and video over a single cable. No need for multiple cables like with a Mac.
HDMI is a standard feature on nearly all Windows notebooks now, and has been since Santa Rosa debuted months ago. It's even been a standard feature for AMD/ATI chipsets since July.
Macs being better than the competition is a personal preference. For me, my Mac was better at first. But then all of the downsides started to outweigh any benefit it might have had. Such as piss poor quality DVD playback (even in Leopard), the need for extra cables and adapters to connect it to the TV, etc. As well as the lack of good 3rd party software and choices.
As well as Apple's bad PR moves lately, like forcing iPod game buyers to repurchase their iPod games, forcibly blocking user made iPhone ringtones (we'll see how long the current hack lasts), bad build quality with the MBPs, iPod nanos, and iPod touch. etc. etc.
First of all, ALL of Vista Ultimate's features work fine on systems that meet the minimum requirements. You'd be hard pressed to find a system that meets the minimum requirements and has a hard time running Vista Ultimate's extra features, especially the graphics based extra features. All of that is based on pixel shaders, and any card that has PS 2.0 can run that stuff fluidly.
Secondly, Vista Ultimate OEM (same as retail, but can only be installed on one motherboard.. but an unlimited number of installs on that one motherboard) can be had for $179 from newegg. Vista Home Premium OEM can be had for $111.
Third, you DO NOT need drivers for projectors, monitors, or even HDTVs. I hook my HP dv6500t notebook up to my 37" LCD TV through HDMI (when was the last time a Mac had HDMI without adapters?) without any kind of special drivers, configurations or anything. When I connect it running Vista, a little screen appears asking me if I want to use a clone mode, extended desktop, or use it as my primary screen. In XP, nothing happens.. I just have to right click on the desktop, click properties, and select it as my monitor. But once I've done that the first time, it will do it EVERY TIME I connect it to that display. So, lets say I were to connect it to the same projector quite often.. All I'd have to do is select it as my primary display that one single time. Then every time after that, Windows will automatically switch to it with the same resolution/display settings as before without a problem.
If I wanted to connect my MacBook to my HDTV, I'd have to buy the little breakout box (the mini-DVI to DVI or VGA adapter) and then I'd either need an additional VGA cable, or a DVI to HDMI adapter. With my HP I connect it and its all done automatically. No extra adapters, nothing. Plus I get audio and video over a single cable. No need for multiple cables like with a Mac.
HDMI is a standard feature on nearly all Windows notebooks now, and has been since Santa Rosa debuted months ago. It's even been a standard feature for AMD/ATI chipsets since July.
Macs being better than the competition is a personal preference. For me, my Mac was better at first. But then all of the downsides started to outweigh any benefit it might have had. Such as piss poor quality DVD playback (even in Leopard), the need for extra cables and adapters to connect it to the TV, etc. As well as the lack of good 3rd party software and choices.
As well as Apple's bad PR moves lately, like forcing iPod game buyers to repurchase their iPod games, forcibly blocking user made iPhone ringtones (we'll see how long the current hack lasts), bad build quality with the MBPs, iPod nanos, and iPod touch. etc. etc.
I think it is how your thread started. Sounds like you have had a run of bad look. I did a clean install when Leopard was delivered on the 26th - yeah, there was no need for me to get it, just wanted to be part of the fun I guess - I don't know why it is but I would never have done that for Microsoft... Anyway, had quite a few OS issues even without installing anything. iLife crashed, iMovie wouldn't start and iPhoto was very buggy (but that was the case on Tiger too)...
Anyway, clean installs are 'always' better IMO, but I do think they rushed Leopard out. However, you have got to ask yourself this. When Vista was released it was a nightmare (I work in IT) I hated it because it was so buggy, drivers wouldn't work etc and even thought it has nearly been a year, the Service Pack isn't going to be released until next year sometime!!
I am grateful at least with leopard, 10.5.1 has come out a couple of weeks later - still got an issue connecting to a WEP wireless network, but it has become a bit more snappier and I like the whole way OS X just flows between apps..
Have you used Vista for a good period of time in comparison?
Stick with it, I have a C2D black book 2nd gen, and it is fine. Had problems with the 1st but managed to get it swapped for this one. I am happy with it, not had any problems, however I have sold my iMac 24" White and just bought a 23" Cinema HD Display and finding the Blackbook isn't that good a powering it up.
I am therefore in the Market for a MBP. If I didn't do big photos, videos etc, this would be fine...
Yes that is very conceivable. Vista has been out for nearly a year and they 'precopied' all those horrendous glass interface ideas from Leopard, which only got them late in the process meaning that Microsoft most likely also copied some fortune tellers ability that was leaked to them.
Please change from this fanboy cologne to a realistic one. Please. The odour is killing me.
HDMI is nowhere near standard on all notebooks... Nor is it anywhere near standard on most notebooks...
I thought it was a little annoying that I had to buy the adapters to connect my MacBook up to projectors and monitors, but frankly, I would rather have that situation than the one with some (most that I have seen frankly) notebooks where I can either connect over VGA, or not at all. S-Video, or not at all. With my MacBook, post adapter, I can connect to anything (except displayport)... so for that ability, I'll pay the little extra. And, OS X remember all the displays that it has been connected to as well. And you are right that Vista is much better about connecting to external displays as compared to XP (o god, that was a chore and a half trying to connect to a TV), and it is a good thing.
I just love it when people come up with usless and totally bogus stats in forums. This one really made my day. If people think its crap its always less than 1%. If people think its glorius they always say 99%, well they can throw in a .9 or .99 if its a really large sample group. The actual numbers Im sure would surprise you. Not that I know them, nor do you.
Your just too funny LOL
First you miss read the original post, which clearly showed speculation via use of the word "expect".
And then make a long speech about numbers and facts which as just as hypocritical as what you are trying to accuse another of.
But dont worry, i wont try and come out with a smart remark to make you look stupid since your above post has done that already LOL.
Thank you for your in-depth review of Leopard. I, for one, could not possibly disagree more. Regardless, this post is still 98.376% awesome and will surely be loved by an estimated 73.287% of forum readers. Gotta finish my 7/12ths cup of coffee before it gets cold - later!
This isn't in regard to what you are saying here, but rather just to make sure that you realize that this post is pointed at you.
I really am sorry to hear that you have had so many problems... but why put up with them? Why not return the machine, get your money back and get a refurbed MacBook that is running Tiger? If you dislike the OS and machine so much, then don't just complain, do something about it. This is in no way, shape, or form me trying to bash on you, but instead trying to understand the situation.
I have had my MacBook for 14-15 months now (I think it is 15 as of yesterday) and it has been an absolute rock. Day in and day out, it is ready to go. However, that is not to say that it is without issues. I have had a couple kernel panics, lock ups, this morning I woke up to some service in Leopard using 182% of my processor (first time I saw something using more than 100% i was confused as hell until I remembered 'Duh, dual core') so I had to restart my machine for that. So i do understand a little of your annoyance. But frankly, now that I have used OS X, I would not go back to Windows unless they really got their act together. I have Vista Business installed on my Mac, and use it mainly for gaming, and I have spent a fair amount of time in there, using it for a week solid when I first got it, trying to make sure that I pass as fair a judgement as I could.
All that aside however, what exactly are the problems taht you are having? What glitches are you experiencing and how is the build quality so-so? (you want crap build quality, spend some time on a Toshiba! Ho-Boy those are terrible). If you list those here, at least the glitches, maybe some insight can be given to make your experience a little better. I have been using Leopard since the WWDC beta (ADC truly is awesome) and I like how it has come along, and have noticed very few glitches. So if you were to put them down here, maybe some assistance can be given.
Clearly the OP is lying in some way. If he was a long term Mac user with half a brain he would have bought an MB with Tiger after the announcement, then got Leopard cheaply as an upgrade. The problem he has is related to his own foolishness, nothing else. Of course 10.5 wasn't going to be perfect for everyone, but it was for me, and by the looks of things almost everyone else.
What to do? Sell it + buy an MB with Tiger, but PLEASE don't whine about vista blah blah and expect people to say "duh, yeah, you're right..." when the truth is rather different.
What to do? Sell it + buy an MB with Tiger, but PLEASE don't whine about vista blah blah and expect people to say "duh, yeah, you're right..." when the truth is rather different.
On the topic of Tiger on a Santa Rosa... I just bought a new MacBook SR to replace my previous MacBook Core2Duo 2G and I didn't want to deal with moving all my stuff to the new book so I just swapped harddrives and it booted up just fine... I didn't bother putting Leopard on for a couple days and it ran just fine with Tiger... it used the GMA 950 video drivers due to the lack of drivers for the x3100 but it did work... so it will work for you... maybe if you could just get ahold of the Tiger install disks for the last MacBook... ?
Cheers
Cheers
THANKYOU!
this is what i have been looking for, I have heard so many little tid bits, and this is a refreshing piece of news.
Mods note: This thread has needed a bit of work, and we all know what that means...
Let's be courteous, thanks.
Let's be courteous, thanks.
Threads like this can really make your brain hurt... There are correct, incorrect, stupid, smart, and every other type of statement possible in this thread. Come on, you guys, you don't need to be an un-moving fanboy, for Mac or PC, and you don't need to hate anything, whether it's Vista, XP, Tiger, Leopard, just because you've had a bad experience or two. I don't have names, but there's some summaries from what I've read:
1) Claim: (Insert OS) is better than (Insert OS)
Whether you like Leopard better than Tiger, or Leopard better than Vista, or Vista better than Leopard, it's all subjective. I think Vista is having a lot more problems than Leopard has, and I think Leopard will be working better sooner than Vista will, but this doesn't mean either of them are perfect. To the person who was glorifying Vista, it's not true that Vista runs perfectly, or even really well on computers with the minimum requirements. I tried to run BASIC on a computer with higher-than-ultimate requirements, and still had issues. Most people will accept that Vista isn't perfect, and most will accept that it's not terrible. So don't try to counter fanboyism with fanboyism. This same thing goes for Leopard.
2) Personal attacks.
JEEZ. Half of the posts in this thread, and a lot of threads on this entire forum are just "YOU MUST BE STUPID IF YOU HATE LEOPARD." or "YOU ARE A FANBOY, VISTA IS PERFECT AND LEOPARD SUCKS." Just stop it. I would take OSX over any other Operating System ANY day of the week, including XP, which I also love (and am on right now.), but I don't go around calling people who use WinPCs morons. Obviously forums like this don't represent the majority of users of either Windows machines, or Mac machines, but people on both sides of the argument hate to take the other side seriously because the Windows side is making fun of Mac users for being Fanboys of their OS, and for a lot of them spewing BS, while the Mac Users trash Windows and Windows users for being fanboys and for loving their OS.
Just come on, everybody. This stuff is elementary at best. Does it really need to be pounded into people's heads the basic facts that cause all the forms of these arguments. Let's summarise again:
Infant OSes are always glitchy, get used to it.
Liking or disliking an OS, whether infant or mature, does not mean the person needs to be called names.
"You're stupid" is not an argument for an OS being better and neither is "I haven't had these problems..." all the latter states is that the problem is not an issue for EVERYONE and instead of stating that you haven't had the problem, you should help them fix the problem.
If everyone can just remember these things, we'll get rid of a lot of fanboyism, a lot of ad hominems, and a lot of pointless forum space-wasting.
Edit: I'm sure these kinds of posts are made frequently. I just got annoyed at all the BS here, and if the post needs to be removed, feel free.
1) Claim: (Insert OS) is better than (Insert OS)
Whether you like Leopard better than Tiger, or Leopard better than Vista, or Vista better than Leopard, it's all subjective. I think Vista is having a lot more problems than Leopard has, and I think Leopard will be working better sooner than Vista will, but this doesn't mean either of them are perfect. To the person who was glorifying Vista, it's not true that Vista runs perfectly, or even really well on computers with the minimum requirements. I tried to run BASIC on a computer with higher-than-ultimate requirements, and still had issues. Most people will accept that Vista isn't perfect, and most will accept that it's not terrible. So don't try to counter fanboyism with fanboyism. This same thing goes for Leopard.
2) Personal attacks.
JEEZ. Half of the posts in this thread, and a lot of threads on this entire forum are just "YOU MUST BE STUPID IF YOU HATE LEOPARD." or "YOU ARE A FANBOY, VISTA IS PERFECT AND LEOPARD SUCKS." Just stop it. I would take OSX over any other Operating System ANY day of the week, including XP, which I also love (and am on right now.), but I don't go around calling people who use WinPCs morons. Obviously forums like this don't represent the majority of users of either Windows machines, or Mac machines, but people on both sides of the argument hate to take the other side seriously because the Windows side is making fun of Mac users for being Fanboys of their OS, and for a lot of them spewing BS, while the Mac Users trash Windows and Windows users for being fanboys and for loving their OS.
Just come on, everybody. This stuff is elementary at best. Does it really need to be pounded into people's heads the basic facts that cause all the forms of these arguments. Let's summarise again:
Infant OSes are always glitchy, get used to it.
Liking or disliking an OS, whether infant or mature, does not mean the person needs to be called names.
"You're stupid" is not an argument for an OS being better and neither is "I haven't had these problems..." all the latter states is that the problem is not an issue for EVERYONE and instead of stating that you haven't had the problem, you should help them fix the problem.
If everyone can just remember these things, we'll get rid of a lot of fanboyism, a lot of ad hominems, and a lot of pointless forum space-wasting.
Edit: I'm sure these kinds of posts are made frequently. I just got annoyed at all the BS here, and if the post needs to be removed, feel free.
Where can I get this shirt?!?!
I've been on these forums doing my due diligence before pulling the trigger on a MBP, and frankly the "fanboyism" scares me. There have only been a few posts that actually address the OP's issue of upgrading/downgrading to Tiger and most posts have been just bashing.
The real question isn't when vista or leopard were released. The real question is 1) how long was leopard in development before Vista was released. and 2) Vista may not of overtly copied leopard, but it seems obvious that Vista did take a cue from Mac OSX in general when they designed Vista.
to say vista copied leopard, has flawed logic because leopard is building on the MAC OSX which is very evident. Mac re-invented its OS when they moved from 9 to X.
my point is leopard has improved on tiger, not copied Vista.
Yes there are 300 some odd new things with leopard, so Mac can compete with Vista, but at the heart where it matters, leopard is the evolution of Tiger.
One could make a similar argument for vista. but from XP to Vista, IMO it is obvious Vista took a huge leap to join the 64 bit world. where as the OS X been gradually building toward this from it's inception.
I have heard it over and over, that Microsoft when making Vista put the OS X on a board and said copy this.
The difference is that MAC has been developing OS X for several years evolving from one system to the next before it has now reached Leopard.
to say vista copied leopard, has flawed logic because leopard is building on the MAC OSX which is very evident. Mac re-invented its OS when they moved from 9 to X.
my point is leopard has improved on tiger, not copied Vista.
Yes there are 300 some odd new things with leopard, so Mac can compete with Vista, but at the heart where it matters, leopard is the evolution of Tiger.
One could make a similar argument for vista. but from XP to Vista, IMO it is obvious Vista took a huge leap to join the 64 bit world. where as the OS X been gradually building toward this from it's inception.
I have heard it over and over, that Microsoft when making Vista put the OS X on a board and said copy this.
The difference is that MAC has been developing OS X for several years evolving from one system to the next before it has now reached Leopard.
Exactly. This is exactly what I'm saying. The fanboyism, the ad hominem attacks, and the BS is just ridiculous.