I don't wan't OSX to be like iOS.

[stevemiller]

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Uhh.. And what happens to your giant secondary monitor when you put an app in full screen mode? A giant expanse of linen.

Also, try using mission control with applications that have more than 3 windows. Mission control stacks windows in a way that makes it useless as the content overview mechanism it claims to be. If you like swiping through desktops for fun I guess it's great, but I can't see a functional advantage over just clicking the damn dock icon for the program you want.

A lot of people seem to think people who are frustrated are just old sticklers who want things to be harder, but it's the opposite, by perpetually pushing paradigms intended for mobile OSs, tasks are getting harder because we're being forced to pretend we are limited by mobile OS restrictions. Launchpad's managent scheme of press and hold to enter "wiggle mode" and then drag icons one by one is as damning proof as you can get for the fundamental flaw of trying to make your desktop act like a small touchscreen

 

[Zwhaler]

I agree with OP.

One observation:

I noticed that Lion/ML is a more seamless experience when using the Magic Trackpad or Multitouch Trackpad on one of the new laptops, that way the "Mission Control" and other features are programmed as multi touch gestures. Doesn't feel as fluid on a mouse. I strongly believe that Snow Leopard is better for who are using a mouse and not trackpad. Think about it, iOS runs exclusively on Multi-touch devices and the gestures between the Mac lineup and iDevice lineup are becoming more and more similar!

 

[Tmelon]

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Uhh.. And what happens to your giant secondary monitor when you put an app in full screen mode? A giant expanse of linen.

Also, try using mission control with applications that have more than 3 windows. Mission control stacks windows in a way that makes it useless as the content overview mechanism it claims to be. If you like swiping through desktops for fun I guess it's great, but I can't see a functional advantage over just clicking the damn dock icon for the program you want.

A lot of people seem to think people who are frustrated are just old sticklers who want things to be harder, but it's the opposite, by perpetually pushing paradigms intended for mobile OSs, tasks are getting harder because we're being forced to pretend we are limited by mobile OS restrictions. Launchpad's managent scheme of press and hold to enter "wiggle mode" and then drag icons one by one is as damning proof as you can get for the fundamental flaw of trying to make your desktop act like a small touchscreen

If you don't like them then don't use them. It's really as simple as that.

 

[A Macbook Pro]

All Apple have done is added some great iOS features, they haven't replaced anything. Game center, messages, notifications etc all make the Mac much more user friendly but don't need to be touched if you don't want to! My only gripe is gatekeeper, people are saying you can turn it off but yes, that is how it is for now. Just like SOPA, which on paper seems good, once it goes into effect it will change the internet forever.

 

[chrono1081]

I just want to hear what others think cause this has been gnawing at me. I'm not really enjoying the idea that OSX is being converted to be more like iOS. I like the iOS system, but I think OSX should be one thing and iOS should be another and not copies, which is what it seems like their doing with Mountain Lion. I want to go on my computer and feel like I'm on a computer, not a big iPad.

Where do you get that they are copies? Just because a few well liked features from iOS came to Mac OS doesn't mean its a copy.

Remember, iOS took a lot more from Mac OS (such as the ability to run apps and not be just a phone).

Your computer will not feel like a big iPad, it'll operate the exact same way, just with some added features to keep your information on both machines in sync.

 

[stevemiller]

If you don't like them then don't use them. It's really as simple as that.

not as simple as that. mission control isn't an "extra" that you can ignore. it completely replaced expose and spaces with an implementation that makes things harder to find if you have more than a few things open.

 

[Lonectzn]

You gotta be joking? I have a 17" MBP at 1920x1200. It's great on that size screen. I can have side by side windows. Yes some apps are not made to be full screen with that much resolution. Web sites are not optimized for a 1920 pixel wide window . . They are made for half that so yes, Safari will have white space around the web page. It's the web page design, not that safari does not scale . . . Launchpad? Yea the icons are bigger than a iPad . . so what? Launchpad icon size is not an indication of scaling well . . that's just nit picking about little things that are not that important.

It's about working and getting my tasks done. I put Safari on the left, Mail on the right and everything else is sitting hidden behind those two unless I am actively working on something else.

The issue is that OS X doesn't actually do anything to help you work with higher resolutions. There aren't any helpful functions for dealing with multiple windows or multiple monitors.

Yes you can put windows next to each other manually. However Windows 7 has Aero Snap, making window management really easy. OS X doesn't have anything, although third party tools like Moom are available.

There's many small things like this. A larger screen has the potential to be much more productive (as in help users do their jobs quicker) than a smaller screen, by being able to present more information and cut down on time spent switching windows.

Mission control, full screen, launchpad... it's all well to say 'don't use it if you don't like it', but a good operating system should try to find ways to help you work more efficiently. Apple know this - after all, they wrote those applications to make small screens more usable. It just seems they're putting all their effort on small screens at the expense of large resolution and multiple monitor groups.

That was my point - there's much that could be done, but they're not doing anything and are already far behind Microsoft in this area. The fact that Apple is now taking all its design cues from a 10 inch optimised OS is not comforting.

 

[throAU]

First some background; I've been a unix network admin since 1996. I've been into computers in various forms since 1986.

I've owned PCs, Amigas, a couple of the old 8 bit machines, and run both Linux and FreeBSD exclusively on my PCs for a couple of years.

I am, what you'd call, a nerd. A power user.

I don't mind where OS X is going. I was dubious of the iOS features at first in lion, but I actually like it.

The gestures are awesome. Versions is pretty seamless, and HAS helped me to not have to re-do work due to the auto versioning.

And, having the option to limit your mac to signed code is going to be a god-send for those who are the family nerd and are going to be the one to fix machines infested with malware, when it happens. Yes, we don't have any malware to speak of on the mac yet, the option to run only signed code will help keep it that way.

Launchpad? I removed it from the dock. However, if you have a trackpad, its actually half decent. I have cut down a whole heap of junk off my dock, and can easily launch apps with a 5 finger pinch, from anywhere.

In short: after a few months, i've actually started using launchpad regularly (i used to just use spotlight).


There's been nothing of note removed from OS X - it is no less capable than before.

There's simply stuff to help you get things done easier, and prevent you from having to worry about backing up, etc.

Dumb repetitive boring tasks (like file version management, backups, etc) are what computer excel at. I don't want to have to care about backing my stuff up and saving multiple versions of a file in case i need to go back. The computer can do that for me.

I think a large number of those bitching about the changes are just set in their ways and wanting to control everything on their machine too much. But the thing is, you don't have to. Ask yourself - why do you care? I'm sure you have more important things to be worrying/thinking about.

De-stress, take a step back, and worry about more important stuff. Let the machine take care of it.

That is the point of these changes, and if you accept them for what they are, you'll be a lot happier about it and more productive. If apple can pull it off (and i think they've done a good job so far in Lion), your time is better spent thinking about other things.



edit:
i agree, on 2 monitors, full screen mode in lion is retarded. don't like it? don't run full screen with two monitors, and you're back to where snow leopard is. no big deal. however when i'm working without my second monitor on my MBP, full screen is useful. So....

 

[nuckinfutz]

It's more likely that Apple has superior market data about how people are using their computers than the typical person.

I think multi monitor setups outside of the professional arena are diminishing and larger monitors are becoming popular. The 27" iMac has sold very well and customers often like the expanse of contiguous screen.

Lion remembers the layout of your apps which I believe Apple feels is more important than simply filling an area 50% with a window. The OS remember how I like the dimensions and location of my Address Book and other windowed items is a godsend to those fastidious computing users who will layout their spaces appropriately.

Lastly the ability to quickly and smoothly zoom text using a gesture makes up for the lack of resolution independence IMO.

 

[Lonectzn]

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A lot of people seem to think people who are frustrated are just old sticklers who want things to be harder, but it's the opposite, by perpetually pushing paradigms intended for mobile OSs, tasks are getting harder because we're being forced to pretend we are limited by mobile OS restrictions. Launchpad's managent scheme of press and hold to enter "wiggle mode" and then drag icons one by one is as damning proof as you can get for the fundamental flaw of trying to make your desktop act like a small touchscreen

The concerning thing is that they seem to either be uninterested or no longer capable of thinking creatively about mac UX issues. The design of launchpad especially shows Apple's decision that it is more important for it to be the same everywhere, than for it to work well everywhere. Their advertising and the ML additions seem to follow the same mindset.

----------

etc

Well, I'm not saying they're removing things or forcing me to do anything different than I did before. That's certainly untrue. They're just not making it any better on large screens. It's merely stagnant.

I just think Windows 7 does a much better job in that particular area, and it's a shame Apple aren't trying to catch up. The reference to this update and the last one, is to point out how much work they are putting on smaller screens, compared to the little attention the rest of the resolution spectrum receives.

 

[Yumunum]

The features in Mountain Lion are good...

Right now we have bad implementation of Notes, Reminders, ect. You're just getting better tools for these things.

Notification center = good. It notifies you about important things. You can always adjust settings for this, too.


Explain to me, what's the problem?

 

[throAU]

Well, I'm not saying they're removing things or forcing me to do anything different than I did before. That's certainly untrue. They're just not making it any better on large screens. It's merely stagnant.

I suspect ML or its successor will fix that.

There's been the beginnings of resolution independence in OS X for some time. The retina display, I am willing to bet, will be the catalyst for true resolution independence coming to OS X.

I mean, if they DON'T get it right, a 15" Macbook running something like 2560x1566 is going to be totally unusable.

 

[NZPilgrim]

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Also, try using mission control with applications that have more than 3 windows. Mission control stacks windows in a way that makes it useless as the content overview mechanism it claims to be. If you like swiping through desktops for fun I guess it's great, but I can't see a functional advantage over just clicking the damn dock icon for the program you want.

I realise that in Lion it takes a couple of extra steps but I keep seeing people say that the windows are stacked and that you can't easily select the one you want, when in fact you can.

4 finger swipe up to access mission control.
Select the top most window of the app you want (regardless if it's the actual window you want).
4 finger swipe down and all windows of that app type are arranged in a grid pattern with no overlapping and easy to see labels.

In fairness I've never used Snow Leopard in any meaningful way so I haven't had any exposure to spaces and expose. I just think that maybe mission control isn't as 'broken' as some people make it out to be.

 

[DigitalFreedom]

Apple GateKeeper is a first step to digital slavery and dictatorship

First.. I know there are many Apple fanboys on this forum, who will defend any step Apple does. I am not interested to get any comments from non-adequate fans. But there are other people who were happy to have OS X as a great alternative to crippled MS Windows.

I did like OS X as it had a great feeling of freedom and simplicity for developing and using software. And now, when Steve is gone, they are starting to kill this unique atmosphere with their attempts to lock the system down and make their expensive and powerful computers just another proprietary and locked entertainment system.

Please do not tell me "Apple will never do that" or "You can disable those restrictions" etc. It's OBVIOUS that Apple is pushing the closed system approach with GateKeeper in OS X.

What do you think about this picture?

http://gizmodo.com/5885837/this-is-...napproved-apps-with-mountain-lions-gatekeeper

That is scary (especially for developers who don't get a chance to be approved by Apple) and is the first sign of a total control. Of course, they cannot force a total control immediately cause they'll get flooded with court cases. BUT!
They will try to push developers and users as much as they can to use AppStore, which is a form of closed and restricted system.

I know it's fine for many MacRumors visitors , but I don't want to convert my Mac in a powerful iPad version. I already have an iPad for entertainment and mobile online activities and it's enough for me.

Apple, please don't make Mac os X a victim of your greed and DRM restrictions! This system was so good to make it locked! And it's based on open-source software. You just have no moral rights to close it and even to attempt to control it fully!

And don't tell me it's about security - it's not. It's all about 30% commission they earn from every app sold and about Apple stock graphs their management is watching daily.

Fans, you can write your usual comments. I know you'll say "don't use it if you don't like it, get away from Apple". That's all you can say.

 

[nuckinfutz]

So you've got 4 posts which most are all spamming the same message

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/14337159/

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/14337103/

Your arguments are filled with straw-man arguments and conjecture. Your attitude is derisive of anyone that disagrees with you. There's no point in engaging you on this subject. You're going to believe what you want to believe.

 

[DigitalFreedom]

fans

oh, so fast angry fans are here. as usual, no any real arguments but just hate. I want to hear from people who are concerned with my issue (as its real and matters for the industry) and not from crazy fanboys who are just consumers.

 

[MartiNZ]

I dont mind the features, but i hate how they're making them look alike. I preferred Snow Leopard and how it looked.

You might be able to ignore features like launchpad, but i dont want that pointless ******** clogging up my computers. It looks tacky as **** (i really hate the folders) and is useless. :/

Apple need to leave iOS on iPhones and go back to making good stuff. The only reason im on lion is for compatibility, i pirated it anyways (**** you apple )

LOL without the malice albeit checked with smileys, you're right about the looks. For years Apple selectively ignored its own human interface guidelines, but with each iteration of OS X we did tend to get closer and closer to a consistent GUI. With Snow Leopard we really only had the iTunes vs Aqua scrollbars left to standardise. For some reason they decided in Leopard to make menus white on black when coming from the Dock, but we got over that one. Dashboard was always safely hidden away to do (or more likely not do) its own thing.

Then came the Mac App Store and its non-standard titlebar, which was really just a sign of the ugliness to come - Lion's Address Book and iCal, and now ML's host of other iOS ports. They never did do a good job of leading by example, ever since the mess of AppleWorks for OS X, but now devs must think they have all the freedom they like ... à la windows and one of those things we used to be able to mock them for. Now the shoe fits the other foot pretty well, and I'm really enjoying Windows 7!

THAT is what concerns me as iOSification, as do features like autosave/versions, which I guess makes sense when you can't access the file system, but is just a bag of hurt™ when you are actually trying to do traditional file manipulation on a desktop device. I just cannot push that point enough.

 

[nuckinfutz]

What on Heaven's Earth are you talking about?

Versions is OS X Lion only which exposes every bit of the filesystem. Auto Save works on both iOS and OS X

Monolithic UI isn't a good thing always. What people meant when they talked about the standard UI conventions wasn't duplicating everything down the to the UI element but rather a Mac user new they'd always have a selection of menu choices from the menu bar. They didn't have to go to different places to quit or save a document. It was all there in the menu bar.

Now Apple is focusing on cleaning up the toolbars a bit and making it easy to use an iOS and OS X device without being confused.

 

[Fabricman112]

we need an OS X Pro with options to turn "features" on/off

 

[macmongral]

one point to consider


If you do not like do not buy it , stay as you are and enjoy the OS you have

good grief if we did not change we would still be using DOS with a tape drive or UNIX command line

 

[heimbachae]

one point to consider


If you do not like do not buy it , stay as you are and enjoy the OS you have

good grief if we did not change we would still be using DOS with a tape drive or UNIX command line

SL user checking in here. and i like it!

 

[294307]

Is it really like iOS though? They way i see it they want to unify OS X technologies across all platforms.

-Notifications on a desktop makes sense (Growl already did this).
-Integration with iCloud is simply the future.
-Messaging integration was long overdue. It was starting to fragment (iChat, Facetime, iMessage)
-Launchpad is just an app browser and you don't even have to use it. Ditto for scrolling, gestures etc.

I'm more worried with the direction MS is taking with Windows 8 as it seems they are actually trying to merge the desktop and mobile platform right down to the UI. Whereas Apple are just streamlining OS X, bringing useful mobile features into the desktop, and integrating with the cloud.

Granted it hasn't been error free but overall...

Can't say i really have too many objections.

I agree. While I think Windows 8 seems like a great idea personally and should do well, I don't personally like the thought of getting apps exclusively from the Windows Store (Metro apps, anyway). I don't want Microsoft to be the sole arbiter as to what Metro apps I can and cannot install, because eventually most apps will inevitable be Metro apps.

I don't think Apple are going in the same direction, instead they are making using Macs safer with their Gatekeeper feature in OS X Mountain Lion where by default, you are more safe from malware because any apps that are installed and launched are going to be from recognised developers through the Mac App Store or apps available outside of the Mac App Store that are digitally signed by the developer. But for others, you can easily "disable" Gatekeeper if you don't like it being enabled. And if you want to install and launch an app that isn't digitally signed and also not available in the Mac App Store but you have the default Gatekeeper setting, as it says on the OS X Mountain Lion security page, "You can even temporarily override your setting by Control-clicking, and install any app at any time."

I have to admit, I too am concerned Apple may cross the line and make apps installable that have only been either digitally signed or are available through the Mac App Store (in future versions of OS X, anyway). You'd think Apple wouldn't do this but they may do in order to protect the end user. But thinking about it, there probably is a better way to do it while not restricting technically-inclined users and those that don't want to be restricted in such a way, and I think Apple has done the right approach with Gatekeeper. If people install malware on OS X Mountain Lion, it is essentially going to be their fault because they would of likely changed the default settings for Gatekeeper (or overridden them temporarily). And really, I don't think Apple will go that "step too far"; I don't think they intend to do so.

I just hope Apple doesn't go any further with Gatekeeper; I think it's perfect as it currently stands, and I actually think it's a good feature to protect us from installing malware while giving us power to override if we need to do so. iOS is after all a mobile platform, whereas OS X isn't. I'm sure Apple won't make OS X like iOS in regards to the curated platform and "locked down" experience, where apps can only be installed that are made available through the App Store. I like the thought of having certain iOS features on OS X (and obviously redone for a desktop operating system), and Apple has definitely promised that with the useful new features in OS X such as Notification Centre, which seems great.

 

[adztaylor]

Is it really like iOS though? They way i see it they want to unify OS X technologies across all platforms.

-Notifications on a desktop makes sense (Growl already did this).
-Integration with iCloud is simply the future.
-Messaging integration was long overdue. It was starting to fragment (iChat, Facetime, iMessage)
-Launchpad is just an app browser and you don't even have to use it. Ditto for scrolling, gestures etc.

I'm more worried with the direction MS is taking with Windows 8 as it seems they are actually trying to merge the desktop and mobile platform right down to the UI. Whereas Apple are just streamlining OS X, bringing useful mobile features into the desktop, and integrating with the cloud.

Granted it hasn't been error free but overall...

Can't say i really have too many objections.

This. Spot on.

 

[Azathoth]

My personal feel is that a lot of the apprehension is the result of decades of listening to Microsoft schmoozing about the forthcoming "great thing" and the horrendous disappointment that almost always followed. It has created a very negative view of tech company promises.

Well I found iCloud confusing, overhyped and ultimately useless, and many professional OS X aficionados (Andy Ithnanko, John Siracusa (sic)) agreed on points one and two.

Versions and autosave has also caused the company I work for to almost ban new macs (the founder was a big Apple fan since the 90s) - due to the way is messes up stuff on non-HFS partitions.

Fullscreen apps are useless for working with dual monitor setups.

So Apple can also do things wrong.


I dont see why I should have my OS integrating with the social network-du-jour. They should devote developer time to fixing omissions and OS weaknesses, not adding auto-tweet functionality.

 

[maflynn]

So Apple can also do things wrong.

Of course they can, but I think iCloud is moving in the right direction, especially with ML now. Back in its prior incarnation - mobileme it was not moving in the right direction.

I dont see why I should have my OS integrating with the social network-du-jour. They should devote developer time to fixing omissions and OS weaknesses, not adding auto-tweet functionality.

There's some credence to that remark but it seems everyone is rushing to integrate, so you can hardly blame apple for jumping on the bandwagon