I feel as though Windows 10/11 is more stable, smoother and less buggier than recent macOS releases.

[Mendota]

Well, it seems to me that Apple has reinvested in the Mac with the M1. I think they now realize that there will always be those that want a Mac and not just an iPad. After all, if you are professional and want to use Apple, well you want a Mac not an iPad. As for gaming desktop still rules. The games in the IOS app store are still lacking in comparison to the desktop. Remember one of the things Microsoft discovered, much to their surprise was that people were using Windows a lot, and not just in the daytime for work. This is one of the reasons for Windows 11. For a "freak" like myself, I like them all. I have every system and I could never be happy being limited to just one... But that is just me.

What I do wonder is what about the Intel Macs. My niece is a new architect graduate, and she likes Mac, but she cannot use the M1 because the professional Rivet will not run on a M1.

 

[Blue Quark]

This thread's "discussion", if you want to call it that, is nothing but an on-going firefight between Microsoft apologists and, basically, any other luckless soul who desires to express an earnest observation and/or complaint.

Microsoft forces telemetry and UI changes and other updates (including stuff which borks systems) and this is widely documented. Period. MS apologists, your defense and/or counter-arguments are hereby invalid.

 

[The Clark]

You may feel that way but feelings are not facts. Windows 11 will be the same inconsistent, bloated, unoptimized garbage Windows 10 was. MS hasn't nailed an OS since Windows 7. Yes I understand driver support and speed have been improved since then, but with all of the telemetry, ads (in a PAID OS), UI bugs, and inconsistent settings menus it's hard to praise Windows or feel optimistic about future releases.

 

[Mendota]

This thread's "discussion", if you want to call it that, is nothing but an on-going firefight between Microsoft apologists and, basically, any other luckless soul who desires to express an earnest observation and/or complaint.

Microsoft forces telemetry and UI changes and other updates (including stuff which borks systems) and this is widely documented. Period. MS apologists, your defense and/or counter-arguments are hereby invalid.

Because you say so... Apologist? Pot meet kettle. Apple does the very same thing with telemetry. I just set up a new Mac and once again it asks to send information back to Apple. What do you think that is? I just updated my iPad and it ask the same thing. And you only seem to be concerned about the complaints about Windows. What about the complaints others have made about Apple and their observations? Do they not count... Yes, I don't think you are in a position to call anyone else an "apologists".

 

[The Clark]

Because you say so... Apologist? Pot meet kettle. Apple does the very same thing with telemetry. I just set up a new Mac and once again it asks to send information back to Apple. What do you think that is? I just updated my iPad and it ask the same thing.

With regards to Telemetry.. Apple does less of it, they give you more control, they're more upfront/transparent and they do not seem to reset settings on updates (BIG PROBLEM on windows) Furthermore, Apple has a history of standing up for customer privacy.. MS has a history of upgrading Windows 7 user to Windows 10 without their knowledge or consent. Whenever you upgrade an OS there's always a chance of data loss. MS knew this and chose to roll out windows 10 aggressively regardless just so they can brag about it's adaption.

Who do you really trust more with your personal computing needs? For me, it's ironically not PC.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I really wish Apple would punt on the macOS update cycle.

We don't need a new version for several years.

Just keep it going and keep working out issues and make it better - not just different.

The "change for the sake of change" bug has fully infected parts of Apple at this point.

 

[Mendota]

You may feel that way but feelings are not facts. Windows 11 will be the same inconsistent, bloated, unoptimized garbage Windows 10 was. MS hasn't nailed an OS since Windows 7. Yes I understand driver support and speed have been improved since then, but with all of the telemetry, ads (in a PAID OS), UI bugs, and inconsistent settings menus it's hard to praise Windows or feel optimistic about future releases.

And yet Windows continues being the dominate system. And given that current MacOS systems are over 12 gigs in size compared to 6 in Windows, I don't think there is any room to call Windows bloated. And again, Apple also collects information on the system. The people who seem to be overwhelmed by "feelings" seem to be on the Apple side. And I am not interested in emotional discussions. My self worth is not dependent on what computer operating system I am using, so I am going to leave it at that. I use Apple products, I have a MacBook, an M1 Air, a Ipad pro, and a iPhone for a second phone. I don't think that makes me elite or special any more than my Surface Book does. These are tools for me... Not a cause to fight over.

 

[Mendota]

With regards to Telemetry.. Apple does less of it, they give you more control, they're more upfront/transparent and they do not seem to reset settings on updates (BIG PROBLEM on windows) Furthermore, Apple has a history of standing up for customer privacy.. MS has a history of upgrading Windows 7 user to Windows 10 without their knowledge or consent. Whenever you upgrade an OS there's always a chance of data loss. MS knew this and chose to roll out windows 10 aggressively regardless just so they can brag about it's adaption.

Who do you really trust more with your personal computing needs? For me, it's ironically not PC.

I am sorry, but no Apple does not do "less" of it. You are now just making up things based on what you want to believe. Again, computers are not a "cause" or something that makes you special. They are tools... And if you are so concerned about privacy, I hope that you are not using Google search.

 

[The Clark]

And yet Windows continues being the dominate system. And given that current MacOS systems are over 12 gigs in size compared to 6 in Windows, I don't think there is any room to call Windows bloated. And again, Apple also collects information on the system. The people who seem to be overwhelmed by "feelings" seem to be on the Apple side. And I am not interested in emotional discussions. My self worth is not dependent on what computer operating system I am using, so I am going to leave it at that. I use Apple products, I have a MacBook, an M1 Air, a Ipad pro, and a iPhone for a second phone. I don't think that makes me elite or special any more than my Surface Book does. These are tools for me... Not a cause to fight over.

It's the "dominate system" because it's sold on everything from 7 thousand dollar gaming laptops to toasters. Not to mention business and schooling licenses. If apple products were more affordable, you'd see them everywhere. You already do despite their price tag. Just goes to show you people are willing to pay more for a "different" experience.

I would hope you don't tie your self worth into which OS you use. However this is a discussion form, about Mac's and PC's and that's all you and I are doing. I am not angry or upset with you, this isn't a fight as far I'm concerned. I understand people do get quite upset over these discussions however.

 

[The Clark]

I am sorry, but no Apple does not do "less" of it. You are now just making up things based on what you want to believe. Again, computers are not a "cause" or something that makes you special. They are tools... And if you are so concerned about privacy, I hope that you are not using Google search.

They absolutely do, and I get my information from testing. I highly recommend downloading wireshark and watching each keystroke get sent anonymously to MS. No other OS is as invasive as MS when it comes to collecting information and advertising.

You should watch Barnacules Nerdgasm's videos on Windows 10. They're older now but they highlight the massive issues with telemetry/privacy in Windows. He was also a software developer on the Windows team for 15 years so I do trust his insight.

Yeah google is ruthless but privacy for me personally isn't a huge deal. It's 2021 and if I want to use certain services I have to accept certain realities. That being said, when my network performance drops because of the 3 dozen processes running in the background, that are there to collect information or display advertisements for the Windows Store, I take issue.

MS fired their 1000+ QA team devs in 2014 and since then Windows has been a buggy nightmare. It's a paid OS that used globally by 1.5 billion people; no excuse for that.

 

[GSWForever8]

Big Sur is trash, Montery is the same buggy OS.
Windows 10/11 are used on VARIETY of hardware and yet seem better than macOS recently.

macOS has always been stable for me. However, windows keep on changing my stuff. I prefer macOS. In fact, I’m running the beta and it is very stable!

 

[GSWForever8]

And yet Windows continues being the dominate system. And given that current MacOS systems are over 12 gigs in size compared to 6 in Windows, I don't think there is any room to call Windows bloated. And again, Apple also collects information on the system. The people who seem to be overwhelmed by "feelings" seem to be on the Apple side. And I am not interested in emotional discussions. My self worth is not dependent on what computer operating system I am using, so I am going to leave it at that. I use Apple products, I have a MacBook, an M1 Air, a Ipad pro, and a iPhone for a second phone. I don't think that makes me elite or special any more than my Surface Book does. These are tools for me... Not a cause to fight over.

Bloat as in candy crush, twitter, instagram, Spotify, and much more apps preinstalled on your pc. Not as in size.

 

[Mendota]

And Apple installs its News app, music app, iMessage, books, etc... And by the Way Windows has not installed Candy Crush in years after feedback, and no they do not install twitter, or Instagram, or Spotify... That is false. Now perhaps various venders put things on, but it is easy enough to just uninstall. Until recently Apple forced you to keep their apps, and it is only because of their fear or antitrust that they discontinued the practice. And good for you that you like Apple. I like Apple products, and Microsoft Products, and Adobe products, and Corel Products (best of all) ... So, liking Apple does not mean one has to trash everyone else.

 

[Mendota]

They absolutely do, and I get my information from testing. I highly recommend downloading wireshark and watching each keystroke get sent anonymously to MS. No other OS is as invasive as MS when it comes to collecting information and advertising.

You should watch Barnacules Nerdgasm's videos on Windows 10. They're older now but they highlight the massive issues with telemetry/privacy in Windows. He was also a software developer on the Windows team for 15 years so I do trust his insight.

Yeah google is ruthless but privacy for me personally isn't a huge deal. It's 2021 and if I want to use certain services I have to accept certain realities. That being said, when my network performance drops because of the 3 dozen processes running in the background, that are there to collect information or display advertisements for the Windows Store, I take issue.

MS fired their 1000+ QA team devs in 2014 and since then Windows has been a buggy nightmare. It's a paid OS that used globally by 1.5 billion people; no excuse for that.

I am well aware of the other tribal people out there especially in the Linux world. It all comes down to jealousy. Jealousy of Microsoft for being the success that it is. No personal information is transmitted with Microsoft telemetry, and they have always stated that fact. And if privacy is no issue for you, then what is your complaint? Again, your comments are nothing more than some strange "Us vs. Them". Hey, I am not the one that said MacOS is garbage, I have no issues with MacOS... Why don't you take your complaints to the original OP of the thread? Explain to them why MacOS is not garbage.

All I said was that in my view MacOS is not as versatile or powerful as Windows and I gave examples as to why. MacOS by design by Apple is restricted because Apple wants a walled garden. And I am not saying that is a bad thing, some people want a walled garden. You and other "defenders" choose to see it as an attack on Apple.

 

[The Clark]

I am well aware of the other tribal people out there especially in the Linux world. It all comes down to jealousy. Jealousy of Microsoft for being the success that it is. No personal information is transmitted with Microsoft telemetry, and they have always stated that fact. And if privacy is no issue for you, then what is your complaint? Again, your comments are nothing more than some strange "Us vs. Them". Hey, I am not the one that said MacOS is garbage, I have no issues with MacOS... Why don't you take your complaints to the original OP of the thread? Explain to them why MacOS is not garbage.

All I said was that in my view MacOS is not as versatile or powerful as Windows and I gave examples as to why. MacOS by design by Apple is restricted because Apple wants a walled garden. And I am not saying that is a bad thing, some people want a walled garden. You and other "defenders" choose to see it as an attack on Apple.

I can assure you most people aren't jealous about the success of an operating system lol..

I know, and I stated that too, it gets transmitted anonymously. My issue - like I previously said - is it uses up both network and system resources. Why should my internet suffer because a standbye windows machine is used in a botnet-like sense to help someone else update their PC.

That's great that you have no issues with MacOS. I do, it's not perfect either but I also have issues with Windows. This thread is a discussion about Windows vs MacOS. What's the issue here again? I'm not allowed to say Windows is garbage? Does that hurt your feelings? It shouldn't. It's an operating system.

 

[Mendota]

I am well aware of the other tribal people out there especially in the Linux world. It all comes down to jealousy. Jealousy of Microsoft for being the success that it is. No personal information is transmitted with Microsoft telemetry, and they have always stated that fact. And if privacy is no issue for you, then what is your complaint? Again, your comments are nothing more than some strange "Us vs. Them". Hey, I am not the one that said MacOS is garbage, I have no issues with MacOS... Why don't you take your complaints to the original OP of the thread? Explain to them why MacOS is not garbage.

All I said was that in my view MacOS is not as versatile or powerful as Windows and I gave examples as to why. MacOS by design by Apple is restricted because Apple wants a walled garden. And I am not saying that is a bad thing, some people want a walled garden. You and other "defenders" choose to see it as an attack on Apple.

And with that I am out of this thread. I like real discussion about tech. If you disagree with a point "Windows is more powerful" give counter points about your OS, in this case Mac... Comments along the line of attacking Windows with old propaganda points is not quality discussion.

 

[GSWForever8]

And Apple installs its News app, music app, iMessage, books, etc... And by the Way Windows has not installed Candy Crush in years after feedback, and no they do not install twitter, or Instagram, or Spotify... That is false. Now perhaps various venders put things on, but it is easy enough to just uninstall. Until recently Apple forced you to keep their apps, and it is only because of their fear or antitrust that they discontinued the practice. And good for you that you like Apple. I like Apple products, and Microsoft Products, and Adobe products, and Corel Products (best of all) ... So, liking Apple does not mean one has to trash everyone else.

Agreeable. I like Microsoft, too. I just don’t like the fact that the live tiles show apps that you don’t have. Both have their disadvantages, and neither are better.

 

[Blue Quark]

And Apple installs its News app, music app, iMessage, books, etc... And by the Way Windows has not installed Candy Crush in years after feedback, and no they do not install twitter, or Instagram, or Spotify... That is false. Now perhaps various venders put things on, but it is easy enough to just uninstall. Until recently Apple forced you to keep their apps, and it is only because of their fear or antitrust that they discontinued the practice. And good for you that you like Apple. I like Apple products, and Microsoft Products, and Adobe products, and Corel Products (best of all) ... So, liking Apple does not mean one has to trash everyone else.

Oh, I assure you Microsoft does far worse than put Candy Crush, Twitter, Instagram or Spotify on people's computers. They pre-install Windows! No lie! Can you believe it?

 

[11235813]

Nobody who really uses Windows 10 and macOS can actually think Windows 10 is smoother. Windows is the second crappiest OS out there (after Android) when it comes to providing a smooth and consistent user experience.

 

[FCLGAppleLoversince2010]

Yup - many reports by users to IT departments thinking it was malware disguised as some weather app garbage. Which it certainly resembles at first glance -- think IE toolbars.

I don’t have it I run windows 11 v22000.111

 

[MacDaddyPanda]

lol, yes I use them back to back. They're both equal in smoothness. And I get more consistent experience with Windows. I have both here's a nice pic.

 

[grmlin]

Nobody who really uses Windows 10 and macOS can actually think Windows 10 is smoother. Windows is the second crappiest OS out there (after Android) when it comes to providing a smooth and consistent user experience.

This so much. macOS feels a bit slower at times with all the animations enabled. But my god is Windows a rough experience all around. There are so many glitches, animation issues, different UI patterns and bugs combined from decades of Windows development it’s kind of mind blowing tbh.

 

[LeeW]

ads (in a PAID OS)

Huh? where? Windows 10 has no ads. At worst you have spotlight, which can be turned off.

Why should my internet suffer because a standbye windows machine is used in a botnet-like sense to help someone else update their PC.

You don't have to. I don't want Apple using my devices on their botnet to track every AirTag I come into contact with amongst everything else they use my resources for. But we can both turn these off, right?

 

[LeeW]

And good for you that you like Apple. I like Apple products, and Microsoft Products, and Adobe products, and Corel Products (best of all) ... So, liking Apple does not mean one has to trash everyone else.

And this is really what these threads eventually come down to. Those that appreciate all tech and find benefit/value in a wide range of builds and OS vs Apple faithful that only see value in Apple.

The former know nothing is perfect, the latter believes only Apple is.

 

[boswald]

I feel like Microsoft has changed a bit since the "old guard" retired, which is a good thing. Satya's mindset seems to be quite opposite to Gates/Ballmer. He seems more progressive; approachable, open-minded. I think that resonates with younger generations, but what do I know? I use a Mac.

That said, I haven't had any issues with Windows until version 8 came out. Ignoring the UI disaster (my opinion), I had an inconsistent interface (old UI here, new UI there, old Control Panel/Settings, etc), rearranged preferences for the sake of "simplicity," instability, update issues, and random network interruptions. Could've been my hardware, but it annoyed me enough to make a change.

I bounced back to Windows 10 when it came out, and I liked a few things. It was faster, the UI looked more consistent (still a mess IMO), and I really liked Edge. But it had its own set of issues (many of the same, actually) that kept me from it long-term. In the end, I bought my first Mac just to see how I'd like it, and it became my primary machine ever since. I don't hate Windows. It just wasn't for me.