I have to share this

[PittAir]

So I'm on a baseball thread, and some guy asks about Windows 7 versus Mac. This starts a debate, to which I reply:

"Mac versus PC..kind of like Yankees versus Red Sox (yeah, let’s rent some cahs).

Viruses in Mac? Unlikely, since everything is going tablet, and please explain how the iOS is vulnerable. It has 80% market share and where’s the malware? Right, it’s on open source Android.

Cost? Add in software for the PC (the Mac gets a lot for free upfront) and the cost differential is not that great. A Macbook Air (which does 99% of what anybody would want, is light at 2.3 lbs) is about $800-900. The free software you get (iLife, etc) is worth about $200-300.

Win7 is perfectly fine. In fact, I run it on the Mac in BootCamp (yes, you can run both on a Mac, but need some fair sophistication to turn a PC into a Hackintosh). But I would never go back at this point. Plus, an iPad also does most of what I want anyway."

To which a reply was given:

"please explain how the iOS is vulnerable

Something like 30% of all Apple store apps are infected with usage tracking software and spyware. They just call it a “feature” in the Apple-world. Was it only 2 weeks ago they found unencrypted files with location data in iOS? This is the lax oversight I’m talking about with due to inexperience.

“Everything going tablet” is another ridiculous falsehood being perpetuated by Apple and it’s community of sheep. It’s hilarious to me that the iPad is supposed to “eliminate the need for a computer”… yet the first thing you have to do when you take it out of the box? Plug it into a computer.

Most people that champion Mac over PC use their computer as a web browser and media center/photo album, and nothing more. There’s nothing wrong with that, but don’t assume that you even understand the limits and capabilities of the Mac OS let alone Windows. That’s why things like a Macbook Air and netbooks are popular, they gives small feature sets that can’t get cluttered because they aren’t powerful enough to be. Buying a Macbook Air for $900 is paying for every bit of that “free $250 in software”. The hardware is barely worth $300, it’s a netbook with an Apple on it."

Thought I'd post this for some comments. If this is the state of computer knowledge out there (and this guy thought he was smart), we are truly in sad shape.

 

[gcans]

I think that people for the most part are just biased.

 

[JephJ]

I don't understand why people can't understand that the reason consumers buy Apple products is not entirely based on hardware. The main argument always seems to be that you can get more hardware for your money with Windows, but there are many more factors. Either way I don't see the point of Mac vs. Windows threads, everyone has their own opinions.

 

[nunes013]

everyone has their own opinions and there will always be those after Apple because they are doing so well and people want to see them slide. Anyway I like Apple because they put in good hardware (even though it can be outdated at times. its better than new hardware now), the software is stable, runs well and gets what i need done. i have had my Mac for two years and only had one problem which wasnt even a big one. the windows machines in my house are laggy and just dont work well.

everyone will have their opinions and if people can give a decent reason why something is better ill agree. however, when you use a Mac, it just feels right

 

[MacJones]

The only thing I don't get is why Mac owners are always called sheep. Wouldn't the company with 95% of the market share (Windows) have the "sheep" because everyone follows them and Mac owners are the ones that are different?

 

[norobin]

I Like Both

I am a relatively new "convert" to Apple. I must say I enjoy the "feel" of my MacBook Air. Overall, especially with it being relatively virus-free, I am a happy convert.

My PC is still being used, however. I can't find a calendar template to use for Mac...I have to convert a Publisher file sent to me monthly for our church newsletter and even though they told me I would be able to when I bought my Mac, it doesn't work.

Does anybody know of a good calendar template for Mac that I could use for our church website? If I had that, I'd be a complete convert!

 

[BigYellow]

I am a relatively new "convert" to Apple. I must say I enjoy the "feel" of my MacBook Air. Overall, especially with it being relatively virus-free, I am a happy convert.

My PC is still being used, however. I can't find a calendar template to use for Mac...I have to convert a Publisher file sent to me monthly for our church newsletter and even though they told me I would be able to when I bought my Mac, it doesn't work.

Does anybody know of a good calendar template for Mac that I could use for our church website? If I had that, I'd be a complete convert!

A quick google search turned up two options (and more I'm sure...)

Instructions on using a web-based conversion tool to convert from PUB to PDF:
http://www.ehow.com/how_4924781_open-pub-file-mac.html

or a very expensive plugin for Adobe InDesign:
http://markzware.com/products/pub2id/

then there's obviously the option to use VMWare or Parallels, or BootCamp, on your Mac.

And finally, get your church to stop using Publisher? There are plenty of cross-platform options, probably even some free/open-source ones.

Sorry for the thread hijack

 

[thatisme]

I am a relatively new "convert" to Apple. I must say I enjoy the "feel" of my MacBook Air. Overall, especially with it being relatively virus-free, I am a happy convert.

My PC is still being used, however. I can't find a calendar template to use for Mac...I have to convert a Publisher file sent to me monthly for our church newsletter and even though they told me I would be able to when I bought my Mac, it doesn't work.

Does anybody know of a good calendar template for Mac that I could use for our church website? If I had that, I'd be a complete convert!

Office 2011 has calendar templates.

 

[glen e]

I'm sure many of you guys visit other boards that deal with your other hobbies. Mine are cars and boats - the arguments are the same: Ford vs Chevy, Sea Ray vs Regal, German vs Japanese cars.....

It never ends, and often ends up with personal bashing, the thread locked and people banned (LOL)

welcome to cyberspace.....an environment where you can be fighting with a 12 year old boy from Duluth Minnesota and not know it....

 

[jmoore5196]

We're "sheep" because we ostensibly buy whatever Apple sells. I don't see anyone lining up to do the same with Microsoft. In the PC world, however, that deficit is seen as a positive. Goes to show you that many PC users don't understand a profitable business model.

My argument with the Windows world has remained the same for the past 15 years - it's about time. I simply don't have time to waste trying to determine why something won't work ... I need it to work right out of the box. Many of my PC-using friends would happily spend hours and hours buying and assembling their own components; I don't have the luxury of that much free time.

If your time is worth something, OS X is the obvious choice. It just works. If, on the other hand, you don't attach much value to your time or enjoy squandering vast amounts of time chasing gremlins, you probably should opt for a PC.

My experience is that few PC users ever seriously consider the value of the time they're wasting getting their hardware and software to play nice together. Everything we do means there's something else we cannot do. If I'm going to spend time chasing a virus through my system, that may mean I cannot go play catch with my kid. Time, like life, is finite. PC-oriented problems are infinite. To those who value cash in pocket more than time, Windows probably offers a worthwhile alternative. For people who have other things to do besides screw around with the latest patches, antivirus protection and hardware issues, there's always the superior alternative.

I think it was John Ruskin who said there was hardly anything someone could not make a little cheaper and that those who considered price alone were that man's lawful prey. Gates and his band of pirates obviously learned this lesson early on ... had Apple fallen victim to the same thinking, they wouldn't be the top tech company in the world just now.

 

[TC25]

...an environment where you can be fighting with a 12 year old boy from Duluth Minnesota and not know it....

People who engage in these pointless arguments, regardless of their chronological age, are all 12 year olds, complete with the self image problems of adolescents who think arguing with strangers on the Internet is a worthwhile endeavor.

 

[4phun]

I think that people for the most part are just biased.

No most people in the UA are the product of a failing public school system that does a horrible job of teaching them how to think.



Windows and Android are popular with silly people as they are cheap when in truth both are extremely dangerous for the unlucky users as they are easily pawned by Cyber Criminals.

 

[PraisiX-windows]

I am yet to try out mac os x, but I will be making the switch with the SB MBA, and I plan to use mac os x as my only operating system.

I used to be an "iHater" until recently, about 5 months ago, where at a conference I heard a computer guy giving a lecture, and even though he was a windows user, he remained completely unbiased when he mentioned mac osx, and that meant something to me, I want to be like that someday, so I figured I'd stop the iHating and try and stick to facts alone. (I'm 19 years old)

Windows has a lot of good features, especially windows 7, compared to vista and xp, windows 7 is a LOT better. Got the "half screen snapping" thing, which really helps boost ones productivity.

Also the malware issue, I don't think it's that much more of a problem for windows 7 than it is for like mac osx, obviously I wouldn't know, but I think the same rules apply, that with just a bit of user experience, one can dodge all those pesky viruses, I mean, I have used my gaming rig for surfing and lots of other stuff for 1½ year now, I run with the windows firewall off and with all ports open in my router, I have not however been attacked, why however I did this I don't know, probably just to make life easier.

The reason I want to try apple out though is:
1st - I'd like to be familiar with that OS.
b - Getting rid of all those overwhelming amount of choices from windows could be nice
4 - I've grown bored of windows
d - My acer craptop is almost completely broken now, I hope that I'll take care of this substantially more expensive machine.

Windows and Android are popular with silly people as they are cheap when in truth both are extremely dangerous for the unlucky users as they are easily pawned by Cyber Criminals.

You sound very biased towards Apple, Windows is really not vulnerable enough to call it "extremely dangerous" to use it, I myself would call it safe, just like I would call using OS X or Linux safe.

About "iLovers"/"apple fanboys" being called sheep.

Usually, if at least used by a person with some sort of thinking mechanism still intact, I'd believe it refers to the guys, who I've met loads of, they're in a lot of apple vs microsoft discussion, that tell you all sort of things about OS X or mac that are false and/or EXTREMELY OVER THE TOP misleading.

Like claiming that there are NO viruses, that the hardware is not pc hardware and all that, I'm sure you've heard it all yourselves.

To me at least sheep are people who spreads myths as if they were facts, now, in my book, this could both be referring to Microsoft fanboys, apple fanboys, and religious people.

 

[endhalf]

4phun: Android is cheap? There are a lot of >500 dollars android phones. You want to pay more for your phone than for your laptop to be considered as "expensive"? Android conserned, it is nice and safe system, that is getting very popular. When original iPhone came out, it couldn't even send/receive MMS if I recall correctly. And I guarantee you that if something has 80% share of market, there will be way more hackers focused on it than on 15% Android system.


Just to be clear, I own Nokia N900 with Linux in it (Maemo and Debian), but I like Android as much as I like iOS. Only system I don't really like is Symbian

 

[ritmomundo]

We're "sheep" because we ostensibly buy whatever Apple sells. I don't see anyone lining up to do the same with Microsoft. In the PC world, however, that deficit is seen as a positive. Goes to show you that many PC users don't understand a profitable business model.

My argument with the Windows world has remained the same for the past 15 years - it's about time. I simply don't have time to waste trying to determine why something won't work ... I need it to work right out of the box. Many of my PC-using friends would happily spend hours and hours buying and assembling their own components; I don't have the luxury of that much free time.

If your time is worth something, OS X is the obvious choice. It just works. If, on the other hand, you don't attach much value to your time or enjoy squandering vast amounts of time chasing gremlins, you probably should opt for a PC.

My experience is that few PC users ever seriously consider the value of the time they're wasting getting their hardware and software to play nice together. Everything we do means there's something else we cannot do. If I'm going to spend time chasing a virus through my system, that may mean I cannot go play catch with my kid. Time, like life, is finite. PC-oriented problems are infinite. To those who value cash in pocket more than time, Windows probably offers a worthwhile alternative. For people who have other things to do besides screw around with the latest patches, antivirus protection and hardware issues, there's always the superior alternative.

I think it was John Ruskin who said there was hardly anything someone could not make a little cheaper and that those who considered price alone were that man's lawful prey. Gates and his band of pirates obviously learned this lesson early on ... had Apple fallen victim to the same thinking, they wouldn't be the top tech company in the world just now.

Just to give my opinion from a less biased standpoint-- I have and use both a Mac (MBA running snow leopard) and a desktop PC (win7) on a regular basis, and I don't feel that either is superior to the other on the most part. They both do what I need, and neither have ever given me problems. They do the same things, just in different ways, and I think it all comes down to personal preference. There are some features & programs that work better on OSX, and some features & programs that work better in Win7.

As for the poster I quoted who said that PCs don't work out of the box and you need to spend your quality time getting your software to work, well thats bogus, or you don't know how to use a PC. You shouldnt run into any issues unless you are building your computer from scratch, or if you buy a really cheap PC pre-filled with crapware.

This whole "it just works" campaign is all marketing, and Apple milks it for all its worth to bring all the computer-illiterates to Mac. The salesguy at the Apple store talked to me about it as if I were a complete newbie to computers, and tried his hardest to convince me that life doesn't get easier than with a Mac. So then I ask you all, IF it really "just works," then what is the need to have tutorials on the Apple website for people to learn how to use OSX? Or the need for set-up help at the genius bar? Or for people to adjust to OSX from windows? I mean, I understand these are conveniences, but if it "just works," then you shouldn't need any help. It should just plain work. But no, alas its all just clever marketing.

And as for the sheep thing - I agree. Not all, but some Apple fans will buy Apple, and Apple alone, blindly... and then brag about it, annoyingly so, as if it is the greatest invention on Earth. We've all met them at some point.

Btw, for someone who talks an awful lot about the importance of time in his post, you sure do seem to have wasted a bunch adding fire to this mac-vs-pc argument. And thinking about it, I probably shouldn't have spent so much time typing this up either. lol...

 

[nebulos]

the Mac vs PC debate is the lowest function the human brain can perform.

there are plenty of stupid beliefs on both sides. who cares?

 

[RockPortTech]

I think that people for the most part are just biased.

+1 from me on this, after all, you like what you like.

 

[32b]

I would like to present as unbiased an opinion I can afford for this forum of users which I have been lurking behind for a while now.

I'm wondering why the Macintosh platform cannot be considered a PC? It's a personal computer I don't see it any different from say, an Asus or Dell built machine. It has the parts like all other personal computers (PC).I'm assuming for the purpose and intents of this conversation, the PC is a generic term given to identify all computers that are not in the Apple production line. Please correct me otherwise.

Recently having purchased the MBA. I work with systems mainly in the *nix and Windows environment and I'll have to say this - whether you're classed as an Apple Fanboy or the other side (PC dudes), this is simply another idea of dualism (or duality, depending on your choice of words) that we all as a society have been indoctrinated for years and years.

EDIT: *cough* look at your political parties (usually dominated by two, in most countries) *cough*

I see no difference in these two "spheres" of computing. Both does the same thing in essence, to become a machine that is able to translate bits into presentable information. The OS X and Windows operating system is, an operating system. Having transitioned between systems, it is not "easier" with any operating system. You're just more inclined to use the one you have been alleviated of the mental pain to get adjusted with. Whatever choice you may have chosen, it is yours, much like the flavour of ice cream you prefer over your partner's, and good on you two if the same choice was made, reducing the numbers in your shopping list.

The outcry of both sides when a war between the supporters is much fueled by the need to solidify one's choice that has been made. Technical points, price ranges, and many other forms of rational argument are often brought up as another way to reinforce the cognitive reasoning that may have or may not allowed us to make the right choice in purchase.

Whatever your choice may be, it is your choice. Be it a Macintosh based computer, or otherwise. End of the day, its just a machine. I think we've all forgotten this.

That said, I'll hide and duck since I'll probably be flamed by both sides!

EDIT: Oh and yes the MBA is an awesome computer. OS X was also great, especially with MacPorts and MacFUSE with NTFS-3G. So is Windows, and Slackware, and my Precision.

 

[GGJstudios]

Usually, if at least used by a person with some sort of thinking mechanism still intact, I'd believe it refers to the guys, who I've met loads of, they're in a lot of apple vs microsoft discussion, that tell you all sort of things about OS X or mac that are false.

Like claiming that there are NO viruses

Name one.

It is a fact that no viruses exist in the wild that can run on Mac OS X, and there never have been any, since it was released 10 years ago. The handful of trojans that exist can be easily avoided with some basic education, common sense and care in what software you install:

Mac Virus/Malware Info​

I'm not going to debate Mac vs Windows because choosing a computer and OS is a personal preference. I'm also not juvenile enough to call someone a "fanboy" just because they disagree with me. However, I do take issue with people spreading falsehoods. It is not a myth that no viruses exist in the wild that run on Mac OS X. It's a fact.

 

[setasai]

I am a relatively new "convert" to Apple. I must say I enjoy the "feel" of my MacBook Air. Overall, especially with it being relatively virus-free, I am a happy convert.

My PC is still being used, however. I can't find a calendar template to use for Mac...I have to convert a Publisher file sent to me monthly for our church newsletter and even though they told me I would be able to when I bought my Mac, it doesn't work.

Does anybody know of a good calendar template for Mac that I could use for our church website? If I had that, I'd be a complete convert!

What about iCal? Just print to PDF a monthly calendar with everything entered into it, or blank, your choice. PDFs work great and the result is very professional looking.

 

[PraisiX-windows]

Name one.

It is a fact that no viruses exist in the wild that can run on Mac OS X, and there never have been any, since it was released 10 years ago. The handful of trojans that exist can be easily avoided with some basic education, common sense and care in what software you install

MACdefender for example, I realize that by your classification it may not qualify as a virus but to the average Joe that's exactly what it will.

I'm not talking about viruses that you just pick up randomly by being connected to the internet, as I'm sure even if you run Windows that's not going to be any real issue either.

However spreading the word that OS X doesn't get any viruses as a fact is very misleading, since it hints that using OS X would keep you entirely safe and thus provides a sense (false) of security that basically says that you can leave your brain in the drawer and browse the internet without any sort of awareness.

Harmful software does in fact exist on both platforms.

Edit:
I'm thinking there's a definition of what a virus is, and I'm sure that since you in this quote state that there has been several trojan horses, that viruses and trojan horses are 2 different things, but to the general public this all blends into one - hence the misleading.

 

[hfg]

The PC vs. Mac debate I encounter the most is that "Macs cost too much, look what I can get a 'similar' PC for".

I have a lot of experience with both, and for one thing, I don't buy the super cheap PC hardware which doesn't last. I buy or build for quality. But, I find that you can't hardly GIVE AWAY a 2-3 year old PC, where I can sell my Macs of that age for at least half, if not more, of what I paid for them new. So, factor that return on purchase price with the included software, and I think Mac computers are actually cheaper!

 

[cfedu]

Plus you must factor in the hours you need to reformat and reinstall software when you buy a new PC. Takes hours to get rid of all that crapware and a million updates! With a new Mac I get my clone drive ready before I buy. Once I'm home I clone to the new mac and have a beer or 2 while I wait. I'l never forgive microsoft for the 24 hours I lost trying to reinstall Vista on a computer. Even if i'm a walmart greeter making 10$ an hour, that is $240 of my time!

 

[PraisiX-windows]

The PC vs. Mac debate I encounter the most is that "Macs cost too much, look what I can get a 'similar' PC for".

I have a lot of experience with both, and for one thing, I don't buy the super cheap PC hardware which doesn't last. I buy or build for quality. But, I find that you can't hardly GIVE AWAY a 2-3 year old PC, where I can sell my Macs of that age for at least half, if not more, of what I paid for them new. So, factor that return on purchase price with the included software, and I think Mac computers are actually cheaper!

PC's use the same type of hardware as macs.
Macs are really pc's, or so I'd think would be reasonable to call them? An apple mac is just like an acer aspire, except sure, they might use other parts and stuff. - But still the same type of hardware.

 

[Mode-III fan]

The PC vs. Mac debate I encounter the most is that "Macs cost too much, look what I can get a 'similar' PC for".

I have a lot of experience with both, and for one thing, I don't buy the super cheap PC hardware which doesn't last. I buy or build for quality. But, I find that you can't hardly GIVE AWAY a 2-3 year old PC, where I can sell my Macs of that age for at least half, if not more, of what I paid for them new. So, factor that return on purchase price with the included software, and I think Mac computers are actually cheaper!

This is pretty much my response to folks who ask me about the Apple Tax. A used Mac in good condition will sell for an excellent price. For instance, I recently sold a year-old Macbook Pro on Ebay for over 60% of my original purchase price. That meant my upgrade to a new 17" MBP was less than $1000. Of course, you have to pay the higher price for the original unit in the first place, but upgrading to a newer mac is then relatively cheap thanks to the high resale value of used macs.