I keep coming back to Windows and I am going to stay on it forever.

[lepidotós]

I was introduced to Linux at like the age of eight, so that kinda skews my perspective, but it's never been difficult for me. We're a long way from having to compile software from source code for most distributions, and a graphical package manager makes it even easier. Windows 8.1 is the last version I've ever used willingly and I'm pretty happy about that, I just couldn't get past the double trouble of W10's telemetry and godawful UI changes, especially the mangled, rotting mess of a start menu that takes up 90% of your screen.
So I decided to, instead, use the money I would have paid for W10 and funnel it into ReactOS. And I don't regret that decision in any way, it may still be an alpha but it's picking up serious speed, and just hired full-time developers.​

 

[allan.nyholm]

I'm just glad that we can settle this debate forever; That people are switching operating systems.

If I ever see a similar thread again, I will mail in my own dirty diaper to the Microsoft Headquarters.

LOL haha just kidding y'all

 

[lcseds]

I have some confusion. Are folks complaining about setting up a Microsoft account? Is it not the same as setting up an Apple ID?

 

[polyphenol]

I have some confusion. Are folks complaining about setting up a Microsoft account? Is it not the same as setting up an Apple ID?

I complain in the belief we should, so far as possible, have the choice - both for Apple and for Microsoft systems.

 

[ahurst]

I have some confusion. Are folks complaining about setting up a Microsoft account? Is it not the same as setting up an Apple ID?

On macOS, you can set up your computer just fine without an Apple ID, the only limitations are that you can't use things that you actually need an Apple ID for (iMessage, FaceTime, iCloud, etc.). It took me like 2 weeks before I bothered to sign into my new MBP with my Apple ID.

On modern versions of Windows, Microsoft makes it *really hard* for you to avoid setting up a Microsoft Account on a computer. At first they just made the "create a local account" button really small on the Microsoft Account screen in setup, but then they removed the button completely so the only way to avoid it was to remember to refuse to connect to a network during setup, forcing it to offer you an offline account option again. Now with Windows 11, you need to actually create a custom installer USB to make an offline user account. A huge pain if you're trying to set up a VM for software testing or trying to fresh-install an old PC before selling it.

 

[mi7chy]

I have some confusion. Are folks complaining about setting up a Microsoft account? Is it not the same as setting up an Apple ID?

Also, they still don't say anything about forced cloud device check with MacOS. At least with Windows you can still bypass cloud device check and cloud user account.

I'm just glad we still have a choice of OS'. I've put up with it since the 1980s but if I was forced to only use MacOS with its backwards design decisions I'd mistakenly send my stool samples to Apple HQ.

 

[ahurst]

Also, they still don't say anything about forced cloud device check with MacOS. At least with Windows you can still bypass cloud device check and cloud user account.

What’s “cloud device check”? I looked it up and found no exact matches, the top result was that if you choose to sign in with your Apple ID you can check online from other devices what computer/phones/etc your Apple ID is currently signed in on.

Certainly nothing I’d mail my poop to Cupertino for, but I suppose we all have different thresholds.

 

[LeeW]

the only limitations are that you can't use things that you actually need an Apple ID for (iMessage, FaceTime, iCloud, etc.).

So what we can say then is that for the average consumer, which is the majority of Apple users you must have an Apple ID.

 

[ahurst]

So what we can say then is that for the average consumer, which is the majority of Apple users you must have an Apple ID.

If they want to use Apple messaging/storage services, sure, but you can’t make a messaging service or cloud service that doesn’t need a user ID.

If Windows only needed an online account to use things Xbox Live and Skype it wouldn’t bother me, it’s that it works really hard to prevent you from even *installing the OS* without creating a Microsoft Account when there’s no clear reason to need one.

 

[mi7chy]

What’s “cloud device check”?

Try doing a reinstall of MacOS. It phones home to Apple HQ and asks please master can I proceed? Apple still has a leash on your device even after you've fully paid for it.

 

[ahurst]

Try doing a reinstall of MacOS. It phones home to Apple HQ and asks please master can I proceed? Apple still has a leash on your device even after you've fully paid for it.

I... have, recently? I'm not sure what part of the installation process you're referring to.

Wait, are you talking about iCloud Activation Lock, which lets you lock your device's firmware remotely if it gets stolen? In the majority of cases I think that's a nice feature to have, though I did have a friend who got burned pretty bad once many years ago (back before 2FA) when a Gmail password leak happened: the attacker used her compromised email to reset her Apple ID password, then used that to iCloud lock her second-hand MacBook Air, then tried to get her to pay an extortionate ransom to get access again. Since she bought it used and the original seller didn't keep a receipt there was no paper trail proving its purchase, Apple couldn't be 100% about chain-of-ownership and wouldn't reset the lock. Definitely an extreme edge case, though.

 

[mi7chy]

Nice spin and double standard as expected. Windows cloud check with bypass evil; forced MacOS cloud check worship.😂

 

[sunnyjohn2]

With Parallels one can have both. I'm a fan of the Mac but Windows is fine when I need to use it. I tend to prefer the overall design and look of the Mac OS but needs as needs must. When my family descend, they need Windows!

 

[ahurst]

Nice spin and double standard as expected. Windows cloud check with bypass evil; forced MacOS cloud check worship.😂

When did I say the Windows equivalent of iCloud Activation Lock was evil? It's a good feature to have on any OS! Except in extreme ransomware circumstances (which are largely mitigated by 2-factor authentication), the only point in time you'll ever come into contact with that feature is if your device is stolen and you lock it yourself, or you unwittingly buy a stolen device. What specifically bothers you about it, on either platform?

Also, from what I can find, you need to deliberately need to enable "Find My Mac" to turn it on and it can be disabled by changing the boot policy (https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT208987). I've never used the feature before so I've never really thought about it.

 

[mi7chy]

Also, from what I can find, you need to deliberately need to enable "Find My Mac" to turn it on and it can be disabled by changing the boot policy (https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT208987).

False. I've never turned it on and it still forces a cloud device check. Apple's leash is always there regardless.

 

[ahurst]

False. I've never turned it on and it still forces a cloud device check. Apple's leash is always there regardless.

I’m sorry, I’m deeply confused. If it shows as being off in your settings, and you presumably aren’t using the feature, how do you know it’s turned on at all? Are you looking at raw network packets when fresh-installing macOS or something? Did you run into an issue where macOS refused to install because of this setting?

Edit: Wait, are you talking about 2 factor authentication? Like, when you sign in to a new Mac with your Apple ID and it asks you on your phone to verify that it’s actually you signing in? That’s the only thing I can think of that makes sense here. You’re correct, *if you sign in with your Apple ID* Apple forces you to do that, for the exact reason laid out in my anecdote about my friend’s ransomed MacBook above. That’s not Apple having your computer on a leash, that’s Apple taking industry-standard steps to prevent your account from getting compromised if you’re the victim of a password leak. I’m surprised Microsoft still allows you to opt out.

 

[lepidotós]

I have some confusion. Are folks complaining about setting up a Microsoft account? Is it not the same as setting up an Apple ID?

Something I've never had to do, besides when setting up an iPhone 4 back in the day. It's been all local accounts for me for as long as I've used computers.​

 

[allan.nyholm]

I've heard/read that making a Cooperate(perhaps not the right term - the actual term has slipped my mind) account will help you make an offline account for the purpose of getting past the nonsense of making an account that's immediately online.

The account you choose is the opposite of the one that is the "normal" one. Vaguest comment yet, by me? Yes. Most likely.

Try it out.

P.S My comment is Windows 11 related

 

[ian87w]

The problem is not just the requirement of an online account, but the fact that Windows 11 Home first time set up REQUIRES you to be connected to the internet. There's no consumer accessible option to avoid this. This means that you cannot just use the brand spanking new Windows 11 PC out of the box just to do basic things without internet connection AND Microsoft account. In some situations, internet connectivity is not always available, and a freaking laptop should be able to be set up and used out of the box to do its basic function without requiring internet connectivity. It's not a freaking Chromebook.

In contrast, macs, at least at this point, can still be used as a computer out of the box without an internet connection nor an Apple ID. You can safely use a mac out of the box without needing AppleID at all. You only need AppleID if you want to use iCloud features, the App store, and/or iTunes.

Even an Android phone can be used out of the box without internet nor Google account. Windows 11 PC has become worst.

 

[Lihp8270]

The problem is not just the requirement of an online account, but the fact that Windows 11 Home first time set up REQUIRES you to be connected to the internet. There's no consumer accessible option to avoid this. This means that you cannot just use the brand spanking new Windows 11 PC out of the box just to do basic things without internet connection AND Microsoft account. In some situations, internet connectivity is not always available, and a freaking laptop should be able to be set up and used out of the box to do its basic function without requiring internet connectivity. It's not a freaking Chromebook.

In contrast, macs, at least at this point, can still be used as a computer out of the box without an internet connection nor an Apple ID. You can safely use a mac out of the box without needing AppleID at all. You only need AppleID if you want to use iCloud features, the App store, and/or iTunes.

Even an Android phone can be used out of the box without internet nor Google account. Windows 11 PC has become worst.

Are you just repeating this or have you actually tested it?

Because 100% you can set up windows 11 home without an internet connection. I did so for my parents less than 1 month ago.

 

[LeeW]

In contrast, macs, at least at this point, can still be used as a computer out of the box without an internet connection nor an Apple ID. You can safely use a mac out of the box without needing AppleID at all.

How many actually would want to though? I have no idea of the exact number but I am sure it's an irrelevant one.

 

[iMac'd]

A link to that article would be helpful.

macOS vs. Windows: Which OS Really Is the Best?

When it comes to performance, usability, security, and specific tasks, which of the two leading desktop operating systems reigns supreme? We break it down feature by feature.

www.pcmag.com

. My recollection of the score was incorrect.

 

[Huntn]

I have a 2016 MBP that needs to be upgraded, but works fine, and a PC used for gaming, the sole purpose for it’s existence. That used to be true.

1990s- Windows sucked. I hated the idea of a registry that if it gets scrambled, your PC is dead in the water. I also did not like the constant software maintenance it required and the many times I was required to do a clean install to fix an issue on Windows. Fixing a Windows issue was easy, CLEAN INSTALL! I spit on it. Yet it is better today than it used to be. I’ve not had to perform a clean install of Windows for about 9 years and I keep my C drive backed up just in case.

The MacBook Pro in 2016 was over priced in 2016, I was incensed that Apple yet again had raised their prices so I downgraded to “just” a $2k MBP because I greatly prefer the MacOS and like how my iPhone, and iPad integrate together. I use this computer for my daily computer related tasks, finances, documents, note taking, browsing. I used to think of the Mac as the Photo manipulation master, and I still do like what it offers on my iPad for altering mages. I also remember the stories of how many techs it took in the corporate setting to keep Windows boxes running as compared to Mac. Lack of OS related maintenance issues gave the MacOS a big leg up Imo.

My PC, home built in 2013, rebuilt in 2019 use to exist just for gaming, until December when I jumped into Unreal Engine learning as a hobby, and realized just how inadequate my Mac is for such an endeavor. The PC has got the power, the video card, and the monitor for the job, and it originally cost me $1100 to build, although with the new video card, more like $1500. In comparison, the pricing on capable Macs still suck, and my impression is that a truly capable video card capability on a Mac is North of $3k.

If you look at my desk today, there is a large 4k monitor, powered by my PC and my little MBP sits on the corner, I play games and work on UE on the PC and take notes on my Mac. And while I’m not ready to abandon the MacOS, it still pisses me off, the price to have it. I’ve thought about downgrading to a MacBook Air, but would really prefer to have 4 USB connections instead of a measly 2. Those extra USB ports are really expensive in Mac land. The PC advantage today is an open hardware architecture, a better price, and an OS that no longer sucks. 🤔

 

[mi7chy]

Table has flipped. MacOS now has reputation for memory leak, uses more memory, takes longer to reinstall, etc. Only things that have remained constant are it's still overpriced for what you get and limited software availability.

 

[LeeW]

And while I’m not ready to abandon the MacOS, it still pisses me off, the price to have it.

Pretty much the same with me. It's not about being able to afford it, just that the price is getting higher and the ability to run all the software you want (well) is getting lower. The new M2 MBA, £1,749 for the minimum spec I could live with. It's a great machine, no doubt, £1,749 of great? Nope.