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I lust after a nMP, but its insane what I could build with the money
- Thread starter Phonzoxd
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Seems like you want to buy nMP for the sake of buying nMP, which is completely fine if you have the money to burn. But consider your needs and how happy you will be with nMP which will not offer any sort of upgradability beyond CPU swap and popping in more RAM sticks.
Then you'll have to add case, gold rated power supply, pcie SSD to get equivalent performance. Not to mention a decent cooler like an h100 and many case fans.
Do you currently need OpenCL acceleration?
If the answer is "no", don't bother. You'd be buying a computer with a second under clocked GPU that basically sits around doing nothing all day long (versus a PC with two GPUs, where at least you can run SLI or Crossfire and put them both to use).
-SC
edit: <derp, beaten to it by OrangeSVTguy>
couple of things, though. first, SVT's are cool. love subarus.
2nd, slughead, that's very nice. I'm strongly tempted to build something similar these days. How difficult was the watercooling to set up?
couple of things, though. first, SVT's are cool. love subarus.
2nd, slughead, that's very nice. I'm strongly tempted to build something similar these days. How difficult was the watercooling to set up?
SVT is Special Vehicle Team, Ford's performance division. You are thinking of Subaru Technica International, or STI. Not to be confused with Honda's Si or Chevy's SS.
Excellent point. My 2009 cost $3K new and sold it last month for $1000. It's actually the cheapest computer on an annualized basis that I've ever owned - before that I built PCs.
x2.
sold my $2800 2008 MP for $850...though i did a graphics upgrade along the way. i was shocked. most other computers are worthless at that stage.
best computer i'd owned prior to getting the nMP. time will tell on this one.
Watercooling is easy if you buy a closed loop system. You just plug it in, screw it in, and off you go. I'm using a Corsair H90. I used an H60 but it leaked.
I got it for <$100.
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LOL according to who?
You can use a 120mm fan to cool a processor, works great, very quiet.
Here's what my PC looks like - 12 hard drives and all.
Image
Not everyone wires things like an idiot
I like how you brought up resale value --which is to say, future value. The machine he's talking about will be < $2000. He could basically throw it away and lose less money than keeping a nMP for that time and reselling it. You're also not factoring in upgradability. In 2 years, he can upgrade his GPU, his CPU, his motherboard, his case. In 2 years he could have a very new and different machine, with a total price still less than the nMP is today--which will be antiquated in comparison.
What does resale value matter if you're replacing the components as you need to. If the PSU and case are still good, keep them!
So, in 2 years time, his PC can still be top of the line for the money he saves today. At the same time, here's what your nMP with GPU & CPU upgrades will probably look like:
Image
Clean & Mean Windows Machine !!!
I've been in a lot of discussions on this topic, as I have friends who would really like to get a new Mac Pro but have a hard time justifying the cost. I think the economics of the computer actually do make sense, depending on your use scenario. As somebody here mentioned, older Macintosh computers have a much higher resale value than equivalent PCs.
Ultimately for me, while I don't need a computer for rendering (I got the hex core and the D700s) my productivity for programming is so much higher on the Macintosh it's invaluable. Combine that with the local repair shop (the Apple Store), the aesthetics and especially the noise level and the size makes it all completely worth it to me. This is the first desktop computer I can actually fit on my desk.
Ultimately for me, while I don't need a computer for rendering (I got the hex core and the D700s) my productivity for programming is so much higher on the Macintosh it's invaluable. Combine that with the local repair shop (the Apple Store), the aesthetics and especially the noise level and the size makes it all completely worth it to me. This is the first desktop computer I can actually fit on my desk.
Don't forget that an 8 core Haswell-E will murder a 6 core Ivy-EP Xeon.
Its difficult to do apples-to-apples comparisons because no one in their right mind that is building a single socket machine would use a Xeon to do so.
Having just had the heads up that a dual 5,1 could be heading my way next month I just had a look at the resale value of my maxed out 8 core 3.2 32Gb 3,1 here in the UK. Granted I bought it ridiculously cheap but I can't help but think that even with all my upgrade kit taken out, the old 8800GT plus a single HDD in sled 1 I'm going to price it at a lot more than I thought I would.
First of all, who says you need to have the exact same performance in all ways? His computer will have a better processor and better GPU for CUDA.
And why does the PC have to match the Mac and not the other way around? He'll be able to run CUDA, the nMP can't--that's a dealbreaker for some. What about the cost savings of having internal hard drives? What about trying to find an external hard drive array that's reasonably priced and doesn't use a freakin power brick.
This is a common thing around here: focus on what the PC can't do and ignore what the Mac can't do.
Second, you can get *faster* HD performance out of a MiniSAS controller ($200) and 4 x 240GB SSD ($120 each) - $680. We're talking like 30-40%. Plus he's got connections for another 4 SSD (not including the motherboard). How much does it cost to get that kind of space in a nMP? $800 upgrade PLUS the 256GB you gave up to get it. By the way, TB 2 cannot exceed 1400MBps for HD throughput -- so his PC will be better in that respect as well.
As far as "gold" rated PS--it is total speculation on your part that Apple is using them, but even platinum PSUs are only $130-150.
Of course but most users who require ECC also require a higher memory load than you can hang off of a single CPU.
It can if you daisy chain TB drives together.
Source: http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/05/lacie-little-big-disk-thunderbolt-2/
Edit, oh you said HD. I assume that is different to data transport?
How many do you need? MiniSAS can control hundreds of drives with port mutipliers at a fraction of the cost.
They're raiding 2 TB2 ports together. To run that kind of bandwidth you effectively use two whole controllers--4 ports. That means no monitors plugged in or daisy chained to those ports, no other devices.
I hadn't considered that, I stand corrected
With a PC with 40 lanes, you use a mere 8 lanes (really could be done with 4 PCIE 3.0) to control that kind of bandwidth. You could have tons of other PCIe slots sharing the remaining lanes without issue.
There's little reason to buy a MacPro unless you have a specific need for it. Unlike the Apple laptops, they do nothing better than a traditional pc, at least with a MacBook you can say they have good build quality. Most people don't need or care for looks in a desktop pc which you will put under your desk anyway. It will have some resale value, but not nearly enough to offset the huge difference in cost.
MacPro costs too much, won't be as upgradable, unless you really really need OSX and small form factor, its hard to recommend.
MacPro costs too much, won't be as upgradable, unless you really really need OSX and small form factor, its hard to recommend.
Considering he has already said that not using Professionally the things like the need for ROI, ECC and Cuda etc aren't really that valid requirements here.
Described already as Games and things, so already moving away from where the nMP goes.
Unless your a Professional and going to be using the nMP for your living then is simply going to be an indulgence purchase.
When it was announced how the Mac Pro was going I was straight out for a refurbed 5,1 that upgraded to what is in the signature. I knew just couldn't justify the amount would cost and didn't want to spend my time thinking what else could have spent the money on.
If it was me facing that choice it would be PC all the way. If spending that sort of cash I want to be able to to configure what I want and upgrade as I want.
Described already as Games and things, so already moving away from where the nMP goes.
Unless your a Professional and going to be using the nMP for your living then is simply going to be an indulgence purchase.
When it was announced how the Mac Pro was going I was straight out for a refurbed 5,1 that upgraded to what is in the signature. I knew just couldn't justify the amount would cost and didn't want to spend my time thinking what else could have spent the money on.
If it was me facing that choice it would be PC all the way. If spending that sort of cash I want to be able to to configure what I want and upgrade as I want.
Yea I decided yesterday I would go with the PC route. I'll probably load both OS.
Of course but most users who require ECC also require a higher memory load than you can hang off of a single CPU.
LOL - all the new Mini Pros are single socket.
And the E5-1600v2 can handle 256 GiB - 4 times what the nMP supports.
A single E5-2600v2 can handle 768 GiB - 12 times the nMP.
There's also the advantage that single socket systems don't have NUMA issues.
I think that you struck out with this argument.