I refuse to buy an Apple Silicon Mac with only 8 GB RAM!

[smirking]

It’s the opposite. Nowadays a computer can last a decade. In the past future-proofing was futile. The hardware was obsolete within a year.

Thing is, even older machines are much more serviceable once you exchange the hard drives for an SSD. It'll never cease to amaze me just how much the pre-Retina Unibody Macs sharpen up in performance once you give it any run of the mill SSD.

I would never choose to run my development workflows off of that, but I did try it just out of curiosity and it's doable. In a pinch, I could live like that.

I know people on very tight budgets still using both Macs and PCs of that era. I get asked to fix them occasionally. Usually it's just a dead hard drive. They're always so satisfied when they get back their suddenly brand new 12 year old 4GB laptop speeding along with a new 128GB SSD.

Nobody here believes me that these people exist. It suggests how little people talk to people who aren't just like them.

 

[sam_dean]

It’s the opposite. Nowadays a computer can last a decade. In the past future-proofing was futile. The hardware was obsolete within a year.

Depends on use case. ;-) If does not change then why replace?

 

[wilberforce]

It’s the opposite. Nowadays a computer can last a decade. In the past future-proofing was futile. The hardware was obsolete within a year.

Depends what you mean by future proof. It is impossible to make a current Mac equivalent to a future Mac by somehow maxing out the specs.
For example, if future Macs have a touchscreen. It is impossible to spec a current Mac to have a touchscreen in the future. So all the people that spent many hundreds of dollars to make their Macs last 10 years, still go and buy a new Mac in a few years anyway to get that new feature which makes current Macs relatively obsolete, and all the money spent on "future proofing" is wasted.
Or, if you don't believe that a Mac will ever have a touchscreen, pick any feature that you do not expect or know about yet but that you will want.

Look at those people that "future proofed" their Intel toasters MacBooks with butterfly keyboards by maxing out their specs - how did that work out? They are all replacing, or wishing they could replace, them with M1/M2 Macbooks so they can actually have some decent battery life and keys that actually all work. It wasn't possible to future-proof in extra battery life.

 

[Appletoni]

If somebody wants 32GB, get 32GB. If you want 64GB, get 64GB. We live in a capitalistic society, how everyone else wants to spend their money is their business.

Exactly and I want a MacBook Pro 20- to 22-inch with M2 Extreme and 512 GB RAM.

 

[FreakinEurekan]

We're not talking about SOME USERS. I'm talking about my myself. 16GB is constrained and I'm not pleased with how its working. So in my book, this crosses the line from want to need. SOME USERS may be ok with that, I'm not

Totally - I just happened to reply to your post, but it’s not a commentary on your behavior/opinion per se. My point is, saying that “Apple shouldn’t sell…” a particular configuration, in other words saying that configuration has NO business existing AT ALL, ignores a large group of users. If you (the royal “You,” not you @maflynn) want more than Vaya con Dios. But understand, there are users out there who strain their budgets to get a basic Mac and… personally, I think they’re better off with an 8/256 mini than a 16/1TB Windows computer.

 

[FreakinEurekan]

I know people on very tight budgets still using both Macs and PCs of that era. I get asked to fix them occasionally. Usually it's just a dead hard drive. They're always so satisfied when they get back their suddenly brand new 12 year old 4GB laptop speeding along with a new 128GB SSD.

Nobody here believes me that these people exist. It suggests how little people talk to people who aren't just like them.

I have people ask me about that - they’re on a tight budget, “I can buy this 2010” or whatever Mac and could you update it for me so I can use it for this mission-critical purpose.

I tell them - if you’re a hobbyist, and you want to upgrade an old Mac so that you can use it at home - go for it. But you have to understand, that old Mac CAN and, you must assume, WILL croak. It will croak in the middle of the most important work you’ve ever performed, and when you have no time for it. It’s the absolute definition of “Penny wise and Pound foolish.”

So if it’s something they’re relying on, for their job or education - I always recommend they go current. Refurb from Apple is the best bet, so that they have full warranty, but if they must buy used - ensure it’s a supported model.

 

[smirking]

I have people ask me about that - they’re on a tight budget, “I can buy this 2010” or whatever Mac and could you update it for me so I can use it for this mission-critical purpose.

Well, I'm not sure if the words mission critical could ever apply to how these people use their computers. Lots of them only use it for stuff they can't do on their phone or tablet which is one reason why they're not too invested in owning good up to date hardware.

Also some of the people I deal with are extremely tech challenged or cognitively impaired. Changing anything on them is a bad idea. The only sane option is updating what they already own and know.

 

[FreakinEurekan]

Well, I'm not sure if the words mission critical could ever apply to how these people use their computers. Lots of them only use it for stuff they can't do on their phone or tablet which is one reason why they're not too invested in owning good up to date hardware.

Also some of the people I deal with are extremely tech challenged or cognitively impaired. Changing anything on them is a bad idea. The only sane option is updating what they already own and know.

Yep - the computer each person needs, is the computer THAT person needs. What I try to get across, is “older isn’t necessarily cheaper” - particularly in terms of TCO. You want an old computer for nostalgic reasons, hobby reasons, personal challenge reasons - fine. You want an old computer because it’ll be cheaper - well….. 😬 maybe.

 

[Abazigal]

people have been saying 8GB isn't enough and you will need to upgrade in order to future proof since 2013. And yet - here casual users are ten years later still with 8GB and being just fine.

What they really mean is that it either isn’t enough for them, or they would simply like having more ram and storage for free. The majority are actually fine with 8 gb ram / 256 gb storage, and we somehow got co-opted into someone’s tirade against Apple simply because they didn’t want to pay a few extra hundred bucks.

 

[MBAir2010]

since my MacBook Air m1 2020 max's at 6 BGRAM
I can supply the original poster with the excess 2GB of mine RAMs.
PM me for the conduit!

 

[Silvestru Hosszu]

It really depends on particular use case. Presently I own a 32 GB 16" M1 Max and a 16 GB 14" M2 Pro.
Before the M2 Pro for travel and mobile office I had a base (8gb) M1 Air.
To be honest it was more than enough. Email, word, large pdf files + minimum 10 safari tabs were no challenge.
So, if you are not using vm's or other resource intensive stuff but confine your activity to office stuff (even advanced one) the base model with 8gb RAM is more than enough.
I own and use overpowered machines because of spec snobbery and because I am fortunate enough to be able to easily afford it.

 

[smirking]

Yep - the computer each person needs, is the computer THAT person needs. What I try to get across, is “older isn’t necessarily cheaper” - particularly in terms of TCO.

Oh definitely. At some point every used car is no longer a modestly used less expensive version of a new car, but a money pit. My last repair could be in this category. It was for my mother-in-law. Her 2011 MBP was running really slow. I bought a bunch of parts and restored it to better than its original working order. What I really wanted to do was sell it for parts and get her a base model MBA.

 

[marstan]

I take the opposite view. I will never again buy more computer power than I need right now. I will never ever try to "future proof" my current purchase.

 

[tstafford]

I take the opposite view. I will never again buy more computer power than I need right now. I will never ever try to "future proof" my current purchase.

There's some wisdom in this approach. I used to buy a bit more RAM than I maybe needed but lately I'm just buying the base versions (MBP14, Studio and M2 MBA). Frankly they all work fine for me. I've been very pleased with the base MBA which I got on sale at BBY. 8GB RAM kind of worried me but I took a shot on it as it's essentially a replacement for an old iPad. M1/2 are such good chips that all of these machines are more powerful than I need.

 

[sam_dean]

I take the opposite view. I will never again buy more computer power than I need right now. I will never ever try to "future proof" my current purchase.

There is wisdom to this.

If it was only possible I'd have wanted a iMac with a 3nm chip that has a raw performance similar to 2015 iMac 14nm. This would probably be a 3nm A17 Bionic chip that has more than 6-core CPU & 5-core GPU destined for iPhone 15 Pro that is coming 7 months from now.

it is sufficient raw performance if your use case has not changed since 2015.

By comparison my current iMac is a 2012 model with a 4-core Intel Core i7 22nm.

As it is the 2020 M1 5nm SoC is already overpowered. I'd just want fresh new iMac 27" that sips less than 80W of power from the more than 200W that it currently uses now.

 

[dmccloud]

I take the opposite view. I will never again buy more computer power than I need right now. I will never ever try to "future proof" my current purchase.

I took that approach with my M1 MBP, and it wasn't long before I started hitting the upper limit of the 8GB RAM. That's one big reason I took the opposite approach with my new MBP. I'd rather purchase based on what I plan to be doing in the next 6 months-3 years than based on the present, because I'd rather keep my machines for several years than be faced with upgrading and/or replacing in 2-3 years. I also took the same approach when building my Windows PC (gaming rig), because I got tired of how quickly prebuilt machines can fall behind.

 

[Zest28]

We got the following:
1. 8 GB RAM is all you need
2. Slow SSD is all you need
3. AAC bluetooth is all you need

....

And with the latest HomePod 2 release, I'm sure we will get the following:
4. Outdated Wifi is all you need.

Apple should start selling Mac's from 10 years ago as new models.

 

[marstan]

I took that approach with my M1 MBP, and it wasn't long before I started hitting the upper limit of the 8GB RAM. That's one big reason I took the opposite approach with my new MBP. I'd rather purchase based on what I plan to be doing in the next 6 months-3 years than based on the present, because I'd rather keep my machines for several years than be faced with upgrading and/or replacing in 2-3 years. I also took the same approach when building my Windows PC (gaming rig), because I got tired of how quickly prebuilt machines can fall behind.

I didn't mean to automatically buy the bottom-of-the-line machine. If you need 16GB ram now, then you get that but no more. Chances are what you need now will be good for a few years. I think it is reasonable to include 1-2 years in "what you need now"; but 5-10 years, no.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I'm mainly frustrated with the 8GB base still because the vast amount of preowned machines out there end up being those. (Actually, this is even true at most of the 3rd party marketplaces even for new ones, now that I think about it)

I'm a value shopper and it's really frustrating to not be able to either upgrade the RAM/SSD myself ... or ... have a good assortment out there to choose from in the preowned world or from alternative retailers who actually put things on sale.

I see base M1 MBA's just languishing on the used market around me and I do wonder what ends up happening to those. Prices keep dropping and no buyers (seemingly).

Just a shame the "we care about the environment" company can't make some machines that are upgradeable down the line -- like they used to.

 

[Scarrus]

I'm aware that 8 GB RAM as of now fits most people's needs. And that the Si/ARM SoC technology isn't as RAM dependent as x86.

But macs are so expensive that I want them to last for regular use for a very long time. We know nothing of that now.

I have had my 2012 mini since 2013 and it works just fine. But, then, I installed 16 GB RAM immediately, and feel secure with that. 8 GB RAM for the future, not upgradeble, no way.

If the entry level gets 16 GB of RAM, and today's prices continue, I'll buy one. But not otherwise.

What do you think?

Honestly so do I.

 

[AlixSPQR]

I'm aware that 8 GB RAM as of now fits most people's needs. And that the Si/ARM SoC technology isn't as RAM dependent as x86.

But macs are so expensive that I want them to last for regular use for a very long time. We know nothing of that now.

I have had my 2012 mini since 2013 and it works just fine. But, then, I installed 16 GB RAM immediately, and feel secure with that. 8 GB RAM for the future, not upgradeble, no way.

If the entry level gets 16 GB of RAM, and today's prices continue, I'll buy one. But not otherwise.

What do you think?

This discussion seems to continue. Here:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-needs-to-make-16-gb-of-ram-standard-or-they-may-never-have-a-laptop-monopoly.2387083/

 

[Populus]

The good thing is that you can actually upgrade your Mac to 16GB of RAM… or even 24GB in the moment of the purchase. Which is what I’ll do.

That thread states that macs should come with base 16GB of RAM. Yours, that you’ll never buy a 8GB Mac, and I agree with you! My next Mac will have the RAM maxed out.

Whether macs are expensive or not, that’s another story (spoiler: they are, and for the most part of Apple’s history they have been expensive).

 

[Digitalguy]

The good thing is that you can actually upgrade your Mac to 16GB of RAM… or even 24GB in the moment of the purchase. Which is what I’ll do.

That thread states that macs should come with base 16GB of RAM. Yours, that you’ll never buy a 8GB Mac, and I agree with you! My next Mac will have the RAM maxed out.

Whether macs are expensive or not, that’s another story (spoiler: they are, and for the most part of Apple’s history they have been expensive).

The bad thing is that once you want to upgrade RAM from the base model you lose all the nice discounts you can find almost everywhere (except from Apple) on the base model and generally have to buy at full price.

 

[unrigestered]

... which wouldn't really be too bad either, if Apple's prices for memory and storage upgrades were not completely insane to begin with

 

[salamanderjuice]

... which wouldn't really be too bad either, if Apple's prices for memory and storage upgrades were not completely insane to begin with

It's pretty wild that you can buy an entire laptop with 16GB RAM and 512GB storage for less than the price Apple charges for upgrading a MBA to 16GB RAM and 512GB storage.

https://www.amazon.com/OTVOC-VocBook-15-Expansion-Bluetooth/dp/B0BKGBVCZ6/