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I still miss scrollbar arrows

redheeler said:
... the arrows at the bottom like shown in my screenshot above are still gone ...
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When I returned to the Mac: of course, you're correct.

In retrospect: whilst I always show scroll bars, I rarely get suitably fine control from the scrolling area; and neither the Magic Mouse nor the trackpad (MacBookPro5,2, early 2009) is what I want. I sometimes reach away from the mouse to use the trackpad, which does feel better beneath my finger(s), but it's in the wrong place.

Whilst without the Mac I was certain that scroll arrows exist in my everyday use of Mavericks. Knowing myself, the likeliest explanation is that I naturally look very frequently, maybe hundreds of times a day, to where they're expected.

@leman (keyword: saccades) years of no longer finding a part of the UI to windows have not caused me to cease looking for that part, for that lost ideal.
 
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MagnusVonMagnum said:
I'm sorry, but that's a complete and utter load of horse manure you're trying to sell me as fertilizer for a concrete driveway. We're talking about two arrow buttons here that have been there forever, not maintaining Carbon compatibility forever (and from a company that can afford to buy its own series of islands). :rolleyes:
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You obviously don't understand software development then.
 
bbeagle said:
You obviously don't understand software development then.
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You obviously have an attitude problem. :(

You point is absurd. I made recreated pinball games for seven years. It was not hard to maintain preference options (with menus). In fact, I found it ridiculous that fellow authors did not include them when it only took a few minutes to create and even less to maintain. Again, I didn't ask for them to maintain Carbon support here forever or even to keep paying for Rosetta until the end of time. That would cost money, although I maintain it would be pocket change for Apple to do so. A little arrow button option? That's a joke to maintain. Give it up. :rolleyes:
 
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imacan said:
+1, at least make it an option so that everyone is happy.
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Don't kid yourself. When I suggested the same thing for the green button to maximize rather than full screen, people shot down the idea... EVEN IF ITS AN OPTION;

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/green-button-maximize-not-full-screen.1891942/

Too many people treat what Apple does as gospel and reject any room for choice. It's as if to say 'Apple said it, therefor I must follow suit and not think different.'
 
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bladerunner2000 said:
Don't kid yourself. When I suggested the same thing for the green button to maximize rather than full screen, people shot down the idea... EVEN IF ITS AN OPTION;

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/green-button-maximize-not-full-screen.1891942/

Too many people treat what Apple does as gospel and reject any room for choice. It's as if to say 'Apple said it, therefor I must follow suit and not think different.'
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bladerunner2000 said:
For YOU.

Not for others. Please know that not everyone likes chocolate, some people like vanilla.
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I see you have not learned anything since your remarks in that thread.

Small White Car said something I find very reasonable. These scroll bar arrows were a primary method to scroll through the content when scroll wheels were not common. Scroll wheels have been very popular and on Apple systems they have likely been superseded by multi-touch by now. Apple is known to disregard minority or power-user preferences, they've been doing it on their hardware too. They don't offer an option, not because it is hard, but likely because they don't want it anymore. That's how Apple rolls.

In spite of this, just as with the discussion on the green button, there are alternative solutions. I posted some a few posts above. If that doesn't satisfy you at all then that's your problem. I don't see the point to these scroll arrows and while I would support an option to change it, I don't see this as a pressing issue, given the options available. Not even Windows or Linux desktop environments offer full customisation in that aspect.
 
bladerunner2000 said:
Don't kid yourself. When I suggested the same thing for the green button to maximize rather than full screen, people shot down the idea... EVEN IF ITS AN OPTION;

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/green-button-maximize-not-full-screen.1891942/

Too many people treat what Apple does as gospel and reject any room for choice. It's as if to say 'Apple said it, therefor I must follow suit and not think different.'
Click to expand...

That's call fantaticism and sadly Apple has a lot of so-called fan boys. Their attachment isn't based on logic. It's based on emotion and as most of us know from the news, basing actions on strong emotions can lead to trouble. I think we'd all be a little better off if we were a little bit more like the fictional Mr. Spock from Star Trek and a little less like the Timothy Mcveighs of the world.

KALLT said:
I see you have not learned anything since your remarks in that thread.

Small White Car said something I find very reasonable. These scroll bar arrows were a primary method to scroll through the content when scroll wheels were not common. Scroll wheels have been very popular and on Apple systems they have likely been superseded by multi-touch by now. Apple is known to disregard minority or power-user preferences, they've been doing it on their hardware too. They don't offer an option, not because it is hard, but likely because they don't want it anymore. That's how Apple rolls.

In spite of this, just as with the discussion on the green button, there are alternative solutions. I posted some a few posts above. If that doesn't satisfy you at all then that's your problem. I don't see the point to these scroll arrows and while I would support an option to change it, I don't see this as a pressing issue, given the options available. Not even Windows or Linux desktop environments offer full customisation in that aspect.
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Just because you don't like the buttons doesn't mean your views represent the entire world. Personally, I have no problem with preference pane options for every feature that was ever in former versions of OSX. People become attached to things presented to them by Apple and then Apple just takes them away again. While I don't really care about the arrow buttons, I have neither a problem with them being there (little reason to remove them when they're not hurting anything, IMO) or a preference option for the user to select them. How does that harm me? You and others, however seem to enjoy being spiteful towards those that feel Apple is making OSX less enjoyable to them and then rubbing salt in the wounds. I don't like that at all.
 
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MagnusVonMagnum said:
Just because you don't like the buttons doesn't mean your views represent the entire world. Personally, I have no problem with preference pane options for every feature that was ever in former versions of OSX. People become attached to things presented to them by Apple and then Apple just takes them away again. While I don't really care about the arrow buttons, I have neither a problem with them being there (little reason to remove them when they're not hurting anything, IMO) or a preference option for the user to select them. How does that harm me? You and others, however seem to enjoy being spiteful towards those that feel Apple is making OSX less enjoyable to them and then rubbing salt in the wounds. I don't like that at all.
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Did I say that? Where was I spiteful? I specifically said that I don't mind an option, but recognise that Apple has particular reasons for doing it that way and is usually stubborn when it comes to their solution. Classic Apple corporate mentality and it's been like that for as long as I know Apple. When I switched to OS X the first time I couldn't get my head around the fact that windows could only be resized from one corner. I found it dumb and never understood why it was like that. I stopped caring about it and at some point Apple changed it (completely unexpected). The scroll arrows have now been gone for years, by the way, Apple didn't release Lion yesterday.

My point is that some people here like to pretend as if Apple and Apple users are doing them a great injustice by not adding or supporting that one feature they want, when in fact they could find alternative solutions in third-party apps. When you just can't move beyond accepting that the system is like that, then you can continue complaining about it or move to another system. That's not me being spiteful, it's a genuine piece of advice (I use Linux nowadays as a second system for those things that OS X does not deliver). There is this tendency specifically on Apple forums to complain about rigid default features and the absence of customisation when third-party solutions exist. I don't encourage people to leave, I advocate embracing other solutions and overcoming the mindset that only Apple can give you what you want.
 
KALLT said:
Did I say that? Where was I spiteful? I specifically said that I don't mind an option, but recognise that Apple has particular reasons for doing it that way and is usually stubborn when it comes to their solution. Classic Apple corporate mentality and it's been like that for as long as I know Apple. When I switched to OS X the first time I couldn't get my head around the fact that windows could only be resized from one corner. I found it dumb and never understood why it was like that. I stopped caring about it and at some point Apple changed it (completely unexpected). The scroll arrows have now been gone for years, by the way, Apple didn't release Lion yesterday.

My point is that some people here like to pretend as if Apple and Apple users are doing them a great injustice by not adding or supporting that one feature they want, when in fact they could find alternative solutions in third-party apps. When you just can't move beyond accepting that the system is like that, then you can continue complaining about it or move to another system. That's not me being spiteful, it's a genuine piece of advice (I use Linux nowadays as a second system for those things that OS X does not deliver). There is this tendency specifically on Apple forums to complain about rigid default features and the absence of customisation when third-party solutions exist. I don't encourage people to leave, I advocate embracing other solutions and overcoming the mindset that only Apple can give you what you want.
Click to expand...

It'd be nice if you and others would stop being apologists and just agree that either options in systems preferences or at the very least, open APIs for 3rd party developers should exist for people those of us who 'prefer chocolate' instead of guys like you who prefer vanilla.
 
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thejadedmonkey said:
El Capitan seems to be about undoing a lot of problems that Lion through Mavericks created. Let's hope it extends to the UI as well.
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The screenshots I've seen have shown very few improvements (mostly fonts and many say it's still not as good as Mavericks). And while I have high hopes for this Metal, I'm not holding my breath. Frankly, just the lack of the "gem" stoplight buttons annoys the hell out of me. It was always my favorite visual thing about the Mac GUI and Mr. Ives ruined it (not it looks like some cheap-arse Linux buttons).
 
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why would u need arrows to see which way u have to scroll? grandpa is it u? i told u to stay off that internet! :p
 
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Every single time I see such posts, there would often be an argue between preferences and sometimes, culture(?).
I sometimes even doubt if there are die hard OS X users in the thread.
As a windows and Mac user, which use windows obviously much more than Mac until now, I don't think OS X really needs arrows to navigate as long as you are used to use Magic Mouse or trackpad. Of course, this is just only because I don't know what could happen if I use a conventional mouse, while Apple is envy to provide only two USB ports and add two 90% of the time useless thunderbolt port, preventing me to use more USB devices at a time without adding a USB hub. Well.
 
Shirasaki said:
As a windows and Mac user, which use windows obviously much more than Mac until now, I don't think OS X really needs arrows to navigate as long as you are used to use Magic Mouse or trackpad.
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I still use the arrows on my 2008 MBA when it's booted into Snow Leopard, despite that the trackpad supports two-finger scrolling no differently from modern MacBook trackpads. They simply work best for fine or slow scrolling.
Shirasaki said:
Of course, this is just only because I don't know what could happen if I use a conventional mouse, while Apple is envy to provide only two USB ports and add two 90% of the time useless thunderbolt port, preventing me to use more USB devices at a time without adding a USB hub. Well.
Click to expand...
Invest in some uses for your TB ports. Both of the TB ports on my iMac are permanently occupied.
 
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redheeler said:
I still use the arrows on my 2008 MBA when it's booted into Snow Leopard, despite that the trackpad supports two-finger scrolling no differently from modern MacBook trackpads. They simply work best for fine or slow scrolling.

Invest in some uses for your TB ports. Both of the TB ports on my iMac are permanently occupied.
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I admit arrows effort on fine scrolling, although, Apple may force you to use their touch trackpad or mouse since those devices could do some sort of fine scrolling.

Talking about TB ports, I find no budget disk for data storage, while this is my main usage scenario. Display on secondary device? Oh, I need to buy many super expensive converters to use it. Use ethernet? OK, this might make some sense, especially for those MacBooks with limited thickness to add a full ethernet port without compromising the structure of the frame. Storage? All hard disks equipped with thunderbolt cable is often $100 more than conventional USB 3 ones.
 
OrangeCrush980 said:
There's just some situations where other solutions just don't cut it. Goddamnit Apple, just bring them back!
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It's October 2017. and I STILL MISS THEM!!!! Why get rid of things that work? It's just dumb. At least give us the option.
 
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Old thread, but...

Nerball6 -
If you want scroll bars back, try downloading a free app called "Mountain Tweaks" and see if it can restore them. The app is a bit old now, but still works...
 
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