Yes I should have made it more clear that I meant everything that I would be doing or wanting to do for a while would be supported. But since my design days are behind me, finding a way to justify having another Mac Pro is kind of tough.
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MP 1,1-5,1 I think I'm done with my 5,1...
- Thread starter FirDerrig33
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Oh I agree with that, but then I would trying to make my 5,1 do what my mini does and that just shows me that where I’m at computationally is no longer the more “power user” that I was once interested in being.
This kind of makes me a little bit jealous! How are your 2014s running as far as memory usage and what OS are they running?
Mine is a refurbished unit; it cost me around $1800. Expect dramatic fall in prices when M4 Studios are announced next Spring.
For me, my MP 5.1 is just like an old valuable collector item car. Something like 62‘ Corvette or a 70‘ Porsche. It’s something for that rare golden and sunny day in the fall. To ride it with a very good friend. The performance is just not the way you measure it any more. It’s a composite of many factors to make this perfect day.
In many ways, the MP5.1 is exactly that, just in the legacy Mac hardware hobby Market.
And since new cars are way way less less durable and long living, the older cars are much more desirable to have, especially in a new world that goes to the ******* because of programmed product obscolescence. The same with Mac’s & PC‘s.
SSDs will far outlive your computer. I bought a 2014 mac mini that I use as a database and server for a small production app. Despite the hundreds of thousands of reads/writes a day from users all over the world, 24 hours a day 7 days a week I have only used roughly 10% of the SSD's life span according to SMART (or about 1% a year).
I am seeing roughly the same results on my dev laptop which FREQUENTLY uses 10-20 GB of swap (despite having 64 gigs of ram) and I am seeing about 1-1.5% of wear a year. It really annoys me how sensational people are about SSD wear thanks to countless articles of journalists doing none of their homework. If SMART was off by 50% that means my laptop SSD, with similar usage would die in 50 YEARS. I have yet to see any apple SSD die from wear (and not a mfg defect or someone spilling something on their laptop)
The 2014s did run all my apps (CS3, Fusion, etc) fine using High Sierra (until I got the 2018s and Mojave). Now the 2014s are mostly used for streaming to my TV, and backup.
As of right now…nothing. #sadness
I am hoping to sell stuff to justify getting an upgrade but due to my now demotion to regular standard user I will have time to wait a while. But if I can sell some stuff then my ideal budget would be less than $500.
I like this thought a lot and it might be what I end up doing just for fun maybe. My goal though is to sell this beautiful 1957 Lincoln continental instead of keeping it in the garage for the sunny day drive down the strip.
I liked your comparison to a classic car a lot. My uncle used to rebuild Lincoln continentals and I would often go to swap meets finding parts and original accessories so he could make them look as original as possible. It was awesome.
I totally hear you. Mini would be a good replacement. Upgrading your Mac Pro though wouldn't be too expensive? You sure you are pricing everything right?
a pair of x5690s are maybe $60? A PCIE to NVME converter from OWC is 35, and then whatever storage you want. Could get a VEGA 56 GPU for 100 bucks off eBay.
a pair of x5690s are maybe $60? A PCIE to NVME converter from OWC is 35, and then whatever storage you want. Could get a VEGA 56 GPU for 100 bucks off eBay.
I am pricing this correctly for what I would want for the best possible things. Otherwise I could get budget options and be under $900. Either way though it’s still the thing where why am I making this even more powerful to do simple things that I don’t need all that power for anymore?
The nvme adapter sure is cheaper but I recently found out that using that keeps me at the x4 even in the x16 slot when I really need something better to really get all I can out of the ssd. So that would be the McFiver or something similar. ~150-200 for that alone. Maxing out the memory, better GPU, raiding SSDs in the drive bay, etc. so it Could be done for less but it still would be too much.
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I have the OWC adapter with a 2TB Pioneer SSD installed in the x16 slot (I know it is marketed as x4). I get about 1200mb/s which is more than enough. I highly doubt you would notice a practical difference in terms of another Intel Mac. Most Intel Mac SSDs that are soldered run at this speed.
So lets say you get a 1TB SSD, OWC Adapter 128GB of Ram, a Vega 56 (Pretty much the best you can get) and the best CPUS
CPU 2x X5690 - $75
OWC Adapter - $35
SSD $100-200?
Vega 56 - $100
128GB RAM - $80
So about $500 to max it out... Which honestly isn't terrible. If your plans are this or your 2014 Mac mini I would pick the Mac Pro in a heartbeat. Honestly though Having an M1 Max MacBook Pro, the ARM Macs are lightyears ahead of the Mac Pro dinosaur.
so IMO
Mac Pro > any Intel Mac
Mac Pro < any ARM Mac
I appreciate you taking the time to look at all of this! And yes about $500 through way and other type sites for sure. And I seriously considered that as well. And yeah, that amount isn't terrible at all to max out a super powerful machine.
It's really coming down to though how much I want to spend (money/time/energy-both physical and electrical) upgrading a machine that is not going to give me the performance of a smaller newer machine that I'm trying to emulate.
Just last night I was using the 3.0 expansion card I put in the 5,1 to Ofer data from an internal HDD onto an external usb 3.0 drive and it was hovering at around 80MB/sec. Fine; not the worst of course. However, I put that same internal drive into an enclosure, then connected the 3.0 external and the enclosed drive to the mini's 3.0 ports and was getting between 115-135MB/sec xfer speeds.
I would also pretty much need to get an upgraded Wifi/BT card to keep it upgradeable (as far as OCLP is concerned) but that will only last so long based on the Xeon's incompatibility with AVX2 (which the mini has).
My 5,1 has been incredibly useful for sure. I used the combo HD-DVD/blu-ray drive along with MakeMKV to fill up my iTunes library with a bunch of 1080p movies converted using handbrake (which would be more difficult and time-consuming on the mini for sure), I did some design work for case artwork, 3-d modeling, Autodesk type stuff for car design..etc. the expandability is fantastic and so are the storage capabilities. All that being said; I don't design any more, I have burned all of my movies and now I use the digital download codes to get them in iTunes or just watch the 4K version either through AppleTV or through my actual 4K devices. I realistically will not use my 5,1 for PS or xbox remote play, and the stark difference in electrical energy consumption between the two machines I have is Crazy.
Do you really think the 5,1 is better than say...even a 2018 Mac mini i7 maxed out? As far as basic use as a primary home computer with no professional level work is concerned.
And it could be that I might just be doing all of this to simply decide to upgrade to a M series mini or machine and that would be fine too.
I think I have finally learned that I need to actually buy the version of the computer that I need when I'm buying it instead of saving some money at the time and then needing to upgrade earlier than potentially necessary.
I've been attached to my 5,1 since it was released. It's been invaluable running everything from Mac OS 10.6 onward and Windows 7-10, but you're absolutely right, a constant 300W+ during use is unnecessary compared to today's CPU advances. Also with legacy software support running out, it's getting harder to use, even with OCLP's assistance. It's difficult to upgrade past Big Sur without hardware modifications. Seems silly to sink more money into it, which at this point signals a time to call it quits.
I'll be upgrading to the incoming M4 Max MBP which will replace both the 5,1 and MacBook Pro 9,2 from 2012. All data has been moved to a local NAS so "cloud" storage is taken care of. Windows on ARM is also good enough where I will load that in a virtual machine for Windows software needs.
I held out as long as I can, but it's time to move on to a new era, as nostalgic as I am for the good 'ol Intel days.
Sure!
Yeah it really depends on the expansion card you have. I have a PCIE one with 2 USB C ports and 3 USB A Ports and get about 95-110mb/s. Still slower than "typical" but really just a touch slower. Not really stuff you notice in real world use.
In terms of wifi/bluetooth you'd be looking at probably 20-40 bucks. Mac Pro Upgrade guide makes it pretty easy to follow but you can basically upgrade it to the same specs as a 2019 iMac.
It really depends on use IMO. I mean sure If I had Both a 2010 Mac Pro and a 2018 i7 Mac mini lying around? Yeah Id probably use the 2018 Mac mini, (unless I was gaming, GPU performance in those is AWFUL) BUT if I had the Mac Pro and didn't have the mini? Save your money and save up for an ARM machine. No sense in buying anything intel. Buy a used M1 mini at that point. It'll run circles around a 2018 mini.
BH Photo has a lot of great deals on Minis https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?q=mac mini&filters=fct_price:..900
Yeah at the end of the day, I wouldn't put any more money into my Mac Pro. If I were in your shoes Id buy an M series Mac (as I did in 2021) and just have the Mac Pro to tinker around with when you want some nostalgia (as I still do)
Last thing I will add - Mojave is slow as a dog on my Mac Pro compared to newer macOS on my M1 Max. I do use my Mac Pro for windows 10 though and it is an absolute speed demon. I think a lot of the performance issues come down to OS level and not necessarily hardware.
Yeah I got attached too absolutely. It's difficult not to when there's a machine that for 15 years has been able to do pretty much everything. and yeah, the 300W+ is the real killer here in Southern California. Having the 5,1 connected to an ACD, AND maxed out with all the storage and all the expansion ports I think I would be running closer to 550W. The energy to run it is one thing, and then the energy needed to cool down the area around it is another.
Are you going to do something fun with the 9,2? maybe install Linux and have fun with that?
And I think that last line is great. I felt the same way when PPC Macs went away and when they finally just had no chance for me being very useable. I graduated from college in 2013 using a 14" iBook G4 and tenfourfox, iTunes 10.6.3 to stream my 1080p movies to my AppleTV, etc. it was interesting.
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True and I could have made other choices for expansion cards and increased the speed a bit. the McFiver would be awesome but I'm not going to buy that for a while if I ever do.
And those cards aren't expensive and I even considered taking the one out of my mini and using it that way as well. That's when I started looking at my Mac mini more closely and taking a really good look at the specs and started noticing how great it really is.
And for a while I was going to make the 5,1 my triple threat machine. I had Mac OS installed on NVME SSD, Ubuntu on SSD in Bay 1 and working toward Windows as well so I could do those games. I even found an app in Linux that could remote play my PS5 at 1080p. I started posting in lots of places looking for help with custom sleeved GPU cables (which don't seem to exist thanks to Apple's proprietary min 6-pin LB connection so I'd have to disconnect and do all the cabling and get the tools), modding the side panel to make it clear and even started working on a design to make it a Starfield-themed machine on the inside and visible and RGB and everything.
I second this. Unless you need an Intel system for a specific reason it makes so much more sense to buy an AS Mini. They're not much more expensive than a higher configuration 2018 Mini. Though you might not get as high of specs, to which I say sit down and really consider your needs versus wants. While I don't know the exact details of your tasks it seems like a mid-level configuration (say a 16GB / 512GB) might work fine for you.
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Well now you're just making me long for the days of 68k/PPC lol. I'm old enough to remember owning a Mac SE in the 90s, Performa 630CD during college, and PowerMac G3 desktop at the turn of the millennium.
SoCal native too, so yes the ToU rates between 37-75¢ per kWh ain't no joke around here. The M4 will be a welcome addition!
Probably not, the trackpad stopped working properly (doesn't click anymore) and it seems useless to spend $$ on yet another battery replacement so I'll probably sell it for super cheap or just recycle it. Linux VMs are running on my NAS, plus a RPi5 driving a few things. The 5,1 will stick around as a back-up nostalgia hit.
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I remember those days too! I must be old. Thanks for that. My dad brought one home and it was such a fun thing to use! I thought it was great compared to the DOS machines I was taking basic programming classes on in high school. Then in the Navy I finally got my own barracks room and went to buy a computer and decided to spend less and get a crap Windows machine instead of the beautiful iMac G4 at the time when that was brand new. :-| To be fair though, that G4 did cost about 2K at the time and I was newly enlisted so it's fine. It's FINE.
Yeah, and living in a place with a 35 year old AC unit, single pane windows and doors, very poor R rating AND a Mac Pro 5,1? That sounds like expensive math.
Oh well then yeah unless you want to permanently have mouse connected to it and then it becomes a pseudo desktop which would not be ideal. At one point that was my favorite Apple laptop. well that one and the MD101. I sold so many of those at Best Buy once the retina models first came out just by showing people how much faster the non-retina reloaded apps and the fact that it used less VM AND it was upgradeable. I even convinced one of my co workers to buy one and while he and I were working at customer service I installed more memory for him and dual SSDs in RAID and then updated his system and he was floored.
Well then let me know if you're ever in need of anything for your 5,1!
High specs isn't really what I'm looking for any more I think. high specs are nice but I'm not trying to compare or make mini the same as a Mac Pro. The fact that I've been doing the opposite is what drove this desire to suddenly look for a better and more reasonable computing option. What I am thinking is that I need to start thinking longer term when I make the initial purchase instead of getting the mid-range model. that way I get the high performance initially and then slowly it dwindles kind of as it should.
I hear what you're saying about the M series Macs and I see that as well and that might be where I end up. I wonder though if the differences between the M iterations are sometimes just as marginal as the Intel ones. For example, a 2014 maxed out mini and a 2018 mini are fairly comparable.
But is that the same for how the M series is going? I'm not sure really. My wife's late 2009 iMac died a couple of years ago so she and I decided to replace it with the M1 16GB unified and it's been working really well and it's great. How is that going to go regarding the M series cycling that looks like it is exponential?
IMO the M1 systems were the best "upgrade" value for the buck given the leaps in performance and power consumption. Normally I would suggest buying a used one but the more I think about it, at least for your needs, a new one is probably a better choice. I say this because the M1 series has long been discontinued which means the remaining OS support timeframe Apple will offer for them might not be as long as you'd like. It sounds as if you're looking to buy something and then use it for as long as you can. A new system will give you that (though you may want to hold off until the refreshed Mini is released).
Well I like this advice and as long as I can keep this 2014 going I will and upgrade when I have to. I like what Apple is doing and it reminds me a lot of how they went from PPC to Intel partially due to power consumption and now it's the same again.
I also don't really care about the support period per se. If there is an initial warranty, then that's great. but as long as it lasts for a while and makes it worth the investment then I'm happy about it. My wife got 12 years out of her 2009 iMac with constant use and my 3 kids have 2010 i3 iMacs that are still going strong. well...strong-ish. LOL.
I'm thinking that if they do bring out the M4, then maybe the M2 Pro will drop down in price and that will be nice.
I also don't really care about the support period per se. If there is an initial warranty, then that's great. but as long as it lasts for a while and makes it worth the investment then I'm happy about it. My wife got 12 years out of her 2009 iMac with constant use and my 3 kids have 2010 i3 iMacs that are still going strong. well...strong-ish. LOL.
I'm thinking that if they do bring out the M4, then maybe the M2 Pro will drop down in price and that will be nice.
So....today is the day. LOL. I have now moved everything over to the Mini! I securely erased the HDDs in the bays, reformatted and reinstalled Mojave and going to rearrange my desk. Now the largest computational device on my desk will be my PS3 slim.