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I took a trip in Microsoft Hell today...

I have a question I am learning XHTML and CSS, where do I go next?

Java, Ajax, more XHTML and CSS or Dreamweaver(waiting on CS3)

Thanks
 
WYSIWYG editors such as GoLive and Dreamweaver are just as valid for building websites as Quark and Indesign are for building printed documents.
(I don't recall the last time I heard of someone writing the postscript code for a page layout manually)
 
Sdashiki said:
Quick glance thru the TV today:

Judging Amy....and the main character's (ready for the shocker, her name is Amy) daughter, who is about 10, says:

"We're learning to make a web page in class..."

and this works for this thread...

cuz it shows that people dont learn the actual substance, just a tool.

This class should be called "How to use Front-Page", because its what it really is. Trying to bill it as Web Design is a complete and utter bastardization of the word(s).

I dont know, maybe its snooty, but if someone says they did their site in a WYSIWYG program, I instantly lose alot of respect for the site. Granted, hand coding has its place, and WYSIWYG has its own, but not knowing what your app even does, is kind of silly.
Click to expand...

i have to disagree with this. The vast majority of people who take intro level classes using wysiwyg editors produce just fine without knowing exactly what the program does. The reason these programs exist and there is a market for them is because people don't want to know what they do, they just want the results. Why is that silly? Is it any more silly than learning how to enter data in a database without knowing SQL?
 
If you want to learn actual web design, hook yourself up with coda and bookmark tizag.com.
 
joelovesapple said:
Well guys... I took matters into my own hands and told the teacher to shove it where the sun don't shine.

I decided to make my own page... http://web.mac.com/jobi1_kenobi/iWeb/www.joeayresblog.com/Welcome.html

Yah, it's an iWeb page:eek: but far better than anything that can be made in FrontPage, that's for sure. All I needed was a basic blog and that's what I got:) .

What do you all think?
Click to expand...

Hmmm, can't access it. Asks for your dot mac password. Sure you have it in the right folder? Is the URL correct?

EDIT: Clicked it again and it worked this time. Weird.
 
joelovesapple said:
Well guys... I took matters into my own hands and told the teacher to shove it where the sun don't shine.

I decided to make my own page... http://web.mac.com/jobi1_kenobi/iWeb/www.joeayresblog.com/Welcome.html

Yah, it's an iWeb page:eek: but far better than anything that can be made in FrontPage, that's for sure. All I needed was a basic blog and that's what I got:) .

What do you all think?
Click to expand...
I learned HTML with a text editor back in 1998, but after a while didn't bother keeping up with how to code with all the changes being introduced to it and all the Web 2.0 stuff. Your first Web site is a heck of a lot more stylish than mine was 9 years ago - granted, the Web has changed a lot since then, but the nice thing about iWeb is that it has a few templates that you can start from and change more as you develop a greater understanding of Web coding. Very nice - congrats!

iWeb is just the beginning - it's a program meant to help you get your feet wet (or in my case, bring my Web site into the 21st Century) and if you like doing Web coding, you can really take off from there. There's a couple main schools out there regarding learning how to code: learn from scratch with a text-editor, or learn from seeing and doing with a WYSIWYG program like iWeb and the more advanced ones like DreamWeaver. It's your preference that really matters, and your goals for understanding what you want to do.

IMHO, iWeb is a lot like a few other Apple programs I use regularly: DVD Studio Pro, iDVD, and iMovie. It's templates are there to get you going, but the more you spend wandering around the Web (or using video tools), you learn to recognize them - you'll pop in a DVD someone authored and see a DVD Studio Pro menu template and think, "oh, they made this DVD with that program." So, depending on how much you get interested, you can then take the next step and make your own site from scratch, which alters the first impression people "in the know" have from "oh yeah, that's an iWeb page template" to "oh wow, that's a nice crisp design." FYI, my Web sites will always be "oh yeah, that's an iWeb page template" because I haven't had the inclination to learn more HTML and other Web coding in greater depth.

At any rate, have fun - what I like about Apple's iLife stuff is that it makes learning to do things fun as well because you're not worrying about mangled HTML code and computer crashes (or stack overflows, or memory errors, or other blue screen of death problems).
 
It's fine for a first-outing! iWeb productes it's own serious bloat, and that shows in the load-time, but sylistically it's just fine.
 
I just wrote a thousand lines of code in Dreamweaver while doing validation and browser check compatibility as I went along in the app today. I'm warming up to Dreamweaver a little bit.

I just can't imagine doing it in Front Page. At all.

I'll readily admit that my own website is made using iWeb. I'm just not that talented at graphic design and the whole artsy-fartsy stuff. I code in PHP and MySQL with just enough CSS and HTML to make text look nice, since I'm responsible for moving our College towards a "paperless" office where all of the paperwork is a dynamic web page with a SQL back end.

I can't create a PHP and MySQL application and call that my homepage.
 
kitki83 said:
I have a question I am learning XHTML and CSS, where do I go next?
Click to expand...


PHP most likely. Then some sort of dialect of SQL so you can bind all that fancy front-end to a fancy back end, which makes web 2.0 actually dynamic.
 
it's AJAX that makes it dynamic... at least for web 2.0. The magic combination of the XHTTPRequest or what ever the hell it is and javascript. You should probably learn javascript also.
 
joelovesapple said:
Its a free course but I could do spreadsheets too.... on wonderful Microturd Spreadshit 2000 TM if I wanted.
Click to expand...

Knowing how to use Microturd Spreadshit is actually very useful, however, at this rate, it's highly unlikely that the class would actually get into the interesting part of things. I use Excel fairly frequently for a variety of things, however, I also have an "above-average" knowledge of how to use Excel.

If you bother to learn to actually use Excel (and I mean to the point where you know VBA well enough to automate everything that can be automated effectively, and not with Macros) you'll find that it's extremely powerful and very useful.
 
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