i7 7700 K for next high end iMac ?!

[cynics]

Cinebench Singlethreaded:
6700K 183
6950XX: 151

That's a 20 percent hit. For this, you pay $1350 more.

Of course, you'll get an impressive boost in multithreaded workloads (1852 in mt cinebench vs 925) But if the work you do can't take advantage of more than 4 cores-- a very common scenario--, you're shelling out big bucks for a slower computer.

I'm not arguing that fast computers are best reserved for a special, elite class of computer user who does more than facebook. I'm arguing that these things involve compromises, and depending on your workload, you could well end up with the short end of the stick.

Don't get me wrong I wouldn't pay that much for that performance difference. My time is valuable, just not that valuable.

What I'm referring to is if AMD is making their 6+ core CPUs their consumer line unlike Intel and their pricing reflects that.

 

[CWallace]

There was a report that Apple's laptop shipments dropped 40%, so it seems people are not willing to buy a premium computer that is not really premium.

Well that figure was from Trendforce, and was only for Q1 of 2016. For Q2 2016, MacBook shipments rose 30% (attributed to the release of the new MacBook, a laptop that is "useless" due to only having a single USB-C port according to Macrumors' forum).

According to IDC, Apple's MacBook shipments between Q2 2015 and Q2 2016 dropped just under 5%. And IDC's "research" and reports are paid for by the PC industry - so they're not going to sugar-coat something for Apple.

Skylake was available for the 21" iMac, but they rolled it out for Broadwell why?

Because the Skylake models would not be released from Intel until almost seven months later - that's why.

The 21" iMac uses an "embedded" processor - a specialized non-socketed CPU and GPU package. The Broadwell version of those chips were released in June of 2015 so they were effectively "brand new" when Apple launched them. Their Skylake equivalents were not released until May of 2016, which is why we'll see them with next month's refresh.

Why do the 15" MBP and Mini are on Haswell?

Apple doesn't care about the Mini. I'm surprised it's still available, but I suppose the Co-Los buy enough of them to warrant continuing to offer it.

As for the MBP, the i5 model is on Broadwell, not Haswell. The i7 model is on Haswell because, again, the Broadwell equivalent had not yet shipped from Intel. Which is unfortunate, as the Broadwell model had a TDP a full 10 watts lower.

 

[maflynn]

Well that figure was from Trendforce, and was only for Q1 of 2016. For Q2 2016, MacBook shipments rose 30% (attributed to the release of the new MacBook, a laptop that is "useless" due to only having a single USB-C port according to Macrumors' forum).

No matter how you slice it, Apple is selling less Macs and the decline is steeper then others, in fact in the prior quarter HP, ASUS and Dell increased sales but Apple did not.

ComputerWorld

Apple yesterday said it sold 4 million Macs in the March quarter, a 12% decline from the same period the year before, and a larger contraction than for the personal computer business as a whole.

And there, Apple has failed by largely ignoring the Mac -- Gottheil cited the line's lack of innovation on both hardware and the OS X operating system -- and confusing customers with overlap between models, particularly the MacBook and the MacBook Air.

According to IDC, Mac sales during the June quarter checked in at an estimated 4.4 million units, representing an 8.3% decline year over year. In turn, Apple’s share of the PC market also took a hit, dropping from 7.4% down to 7.1%.

BGR

With Apple already trying to withstand the brunt of declining iPhone sales, recent data from both Gartner and IDC suggests that Apple now has to contend with a worrisome decline in Mac sales.

The 21" iMac uses an "embedded" processor - a specialized non-socketed CPU and GPU package. The Broadwell version of those chips were released in June of 2015 so they were effectively "brand new" when Apple launched them. Their Skylake equivalents were not released until May of 2016, which is why we'll see them with next month's refresh.
...
As for the MBP, the i5 model is on Broadwell, not Haswell. The i7 model is on Haswell because, again, the Broadwell equivalent had not yet shipped from Intel. Which is unfortunate, as the Broadwell model had a TDP a full 10 watts lower.

So basically you're saying, that Apple is using non-standard designs which has hampered and prevented them from updating their machines with current chipsets, where as Apple's competitors having no such problems are able to update to skylake, and Kaby lake but Apple is sticking with Broadwell and Haswell. To summarize, Apple designed computers that cannot easily use the latest chipsets.

 

[CWallace]

No matter how you slice it, Apple is selling less Macs and the decline is steeper then others, in fact in the prior quarter HP, ASUS and Dell increased sales but Apple did not.

Apple's still making a fair bit more per machine than the PC vendors, so in the end, they're still making plenty of money.

But once the new MBPs arrive, Apple will see a significant uptick and will be making even more.]

Terrible position to be in.

So basically you're saying, that Apple is using non-standard designs which has hampered and prevented them from updating their machines with current chipsets, where as Apple's competitors having no such problems are able to update to skylake, and Kaby lake but Apple is sticking with Broadwell and Haswell. To summarize, Apple designed computers that cannot easily use the latest chipsets.

Intel created these "embedded" CPUs to make it easier for vendors to design and bring new machines to market. As to why Apple is using them on the 4K iMac (and only on the 4K iMac that I can tell), perhaps that is what it took to make a 4K iMac possible in that timeframe.

 

[maflynn]

As to why Apple is using them on the 4K iMac (and only on the 4K iMac that I can tell), perhaps that is what it took to make a 4K iMac possible in that timeframe.

I don't think they had too, and they did have choices, such as keep using a dGPU in the 21" iMac instead of going to iGPU, which is silly, since you're dropping down to a iGPU but you're requiring it to work even harder to push a 4k display. (not CPU related but the 4k iMac has a stock configuration of a 5400 rpm hard drive - WTF)

I love my 5k iMac, its the best computer I've owned, but I think overall, Apple has made certain choices that have painted themselves into a corner. Its not Intel's fault, but rather Apple over their design/chip choices. Regardless of the reason, its really sad that Apple is selling a 2,000 dollar laptop, promoting it as a premium product and yet using the Haswell chipset. Just my $.02

 

[Maxx Power]

Even if the Zen CPUs will be as fast as latest Intel CPUs...?

What would you loose with switch from Intel to AMD, to say something like this?

Last thing: Apple will not go away from Intel. At least - for now. But AMD Zen does promise that they might bring hell of a competition back to CPU market.

I agree. Let's keep our fingers crossed and hope AMD pulls Zen out with its full gory. Even if Zen is not up to Kaby Lake standards but within striking distance, I would urge Apple to offer an AMD Zen alternative, particularly if this means cheaper pricing or better integrated graphics.

I also urge Apple to adopt standardized M.2 NVME form factors for their blade SSDs in all their machines. Finding replacements and upgrades for their SSDs is very difficult and costly presently.

 

[komiez]

So, Today's the day, 1 hour and 30 mins left:

We'll see what will happen
http://www.apple.com/apple-events/october-2016/

 

[CWallace]

Not surprised there were no iMac announcements since Ming-Chi Kuo has a pretty solid track record and he said 2017.

So looks like Apple is waiting for Kaby Lake and the higher-spec AMD GPUs (470/480) before they refresh the iMac. Kaby Lake Xeon should be ready by then, as well, so they could do a Mac Pro update.

 

[komiez]

Not surprised there were no iMac announcements since Ming-Chi Kuo has a pretty solid track record and he said 2017.

So looks like Apple is waiting for Kaby Lake and the higher-spec AMD GPUs (470/480) before they refresh the iMac. Kaby Lake Xeon should be ready by then, as well, so they could do a Mac Pro update.

Yeah! Posted in the No iMac thread but, wonder how much better the 7700K will be compared to the current setup...

 

[danielwsmithee]

Not surprised there were no iMac announcements since Ming-Chi Kuo has a pretty solid track record and he said 2017.

So looks like Apple is waiting for Kaby Lake and the higher-spec AMD GPUs (470/480) before they refresh the iMac. Kaby Lake Xeon should be ready by then, as well, so they could do a Mac Pro update.

Yeah definitely looks like the new iMac will have Kaby Lake and the 470/480s.

I'm wondering what else Apple will bring over from the MacBook Pro to the iMac. USB-C/TB3 certainly, maybe they will have an upgrade option to a wireless keyboard with a touch bar, or even a new Trackpad (called the touchPad). A very large trackpad, with display, and Apple Pencil support could be pretty cool.