i7-7700K vs. i5-7600K for Logic Pro X

[EugW]

Started doing a little work with Kontakt (a popular Virtual Instrument Collection) and I think I finally have an answer for myself. Virtual instruments can be very CPU intensive. With only five active I was able to utilize 55% of the i5 CPU (all 96kHz 128 buffer today). The i7 was more like 20%. This was even more true during the recording process where resources are taxed even a little higher. Surprisingly for the same load the temperature difference between the i7 and the i5 is very minimal. It's a gig day for me so no more this today but I will leave these pictures for people to take a look at....

So, what's your decision then? It wasn't clear from the post but it sounds like you're leaning i7.

Also, do you absolutely have to buy now? I get that you want to sell your Mac Pro now for resale value reasons, but it sounds like neither the base model 7500 nor the top model 7700K may be the perfect fit yet.

Have you considered just waiting until next year? Interestingly, rumour has it the new i7 will be 6-core around 3.5 GHz with Turbo Boost up to 4.2 GHz. Or at least, there is an engineering sample with those specs floating around. The final product could be even faster. Undoubtedly, this will be a hot chip, but even more interesting is the i5 as you likely know will be around 3.5 GHz or faster, 6-core with 6 threads. I don't know how hot this one will be but it would be significantly cooler than the above i7. A chip like that if the power numbers are reasonable might be a reasonable middle ground for you next year. Not as powerful as a 12-thread i7, but much more powerful than the current 7600K for multithreaded applications like yours, and powerful enough to give you lots of headroom for the next few years.

 

[ctrlzone]

Yes I agree but you said an old 2011 laptop was already sufficient for what you need, so the 7600K already gives you a lot more headroom.

I'm not saying don't buy the i7. I'm just saying that the 7600K isn't a bad machine and shouldn't be ruled out just for future proofing. If people don't like dealing with fan noise, there's nothing wrong with getting a "lesser" machine. That person may actually be happier keeping the machine 4 years comparatively noise-free and upgrading then instead of upgrading after 6 years with the fan on all the time. That extra 40% headroom may allow them to keep it those 4 years. Or it may not. ie. It's not a slam dunk black-and-white choice, esp. judging by propower's posts here and in the noise thread.


Geekbench score: 3522 / 11705 - 15" MacBook Pro quad Core i7-2860QM 2.5 GHz Late 2011
Geekbench score: 5484 / 16463 - 27" iMac quad Core i5-7600K 3.8 GHz mid-2017

Delta: +56% / +40.6%

BTW, how come you were surprised? Did you think the 2011 laptop i7 would be faster than it is? Or did you think the 2017 iMac i5 would be faster than it is?

your absolutely right, dunno what the heck i was thinking
[doublepost=1498944630][/doublepost]

Started doing a little work with Kontakt (a popular Virtual Instrument Collection) and I think I finally have an answer for myself. Virtual instruments can be very CPU intensive. With only five active I was able to utilize 55% of the i5 CPU (all 96kHz 128 buffer today). The i7 was more like 20%. This was even more true during the recording process where resources are taxed even a little higher. Surprisingly for the same load the temperature difference between the i7 and the i5 is very minimal. It's a gig day for me so no more this today but I will leave these pictures for people to take a look at....

i makes perfect sense that under load they generate similar heat, the i5 will just run cooler if not under heavy load.

is cooling on the iMac so bad ?
wtf apple, this is not a mobile unit!
why do they have to make it so thin to not be able to cool it silent and properly

 

[propower]

Also, do you absolutely have to buy now? I get that you want to sell your Mac Pro now for resale value reasons, but it sounds like neither the base model 7500 nor the top model 7700K may be the perfect fit yet.

I do lean towards i7 (though having the darned Fusion Drive for my test i5 has complicated many things with testing)! BUT - I also may just go back to the Mac Pro - was always the real backup plan! But there is much to the iMac that I do like (screen, SSD speed, AIO). Now that I am addicted to this darned 5K monitor though if I did stay with the MP I would have to find a worthy replacement for my Dell U2715H. Any suggestions for that are welcome

-----------------------
I fear there is an issue in the last test - i5 machine actually went down due to Fusion drive issues....

 

[here4evr]

Audio multitrack recording and mixing represents a constant load in any given session that increases with tracks or plugins. In testing on the 2017 i5 and i7 imacs I find a moderate session to be in the 20% range on an i7 (40% on i5). A heavy session will be more like 30% i7, 60% i5. 85 to 95degC i7, 45 to 55degC i5.

I wish Apple would have had the option for an i7 7700 nonK!

Apple does offer the i7 7700 option (65 watt TDP) in a BTO 2017 21.5" Retina iMac.

I agree with some of the other concerns about the heat of the 7700k in the 27" iMac. You do not throw a 91 watt TDP gaming enthusiasts chip (that is normally watercooled or aircooled with a massive heatsink/heatpipe/fan setup...Intel doesn't even include a stock fan/heatsink with these since it assumes a robust aftermarket cooler will be used) in such a thermally-constricted environment...what were the Apple engineers thinking?

According to Intel, both chips (7600/7700k) are rated at a max of 100C (T Junction), but I would not feel comfortable running even close to 70C for very long considering the close proximity to all the other internal stacked parts/PCBs/LCD display. Not to mention, on the iMac, the GPU and the CPU share the same heatsink/heatpipe setup...which is then cooled by ONE fan. If you also opt for the hotter 580 GPU that has a TDP of 150 watts (30 watts higher than the other two) that's a lot of heat for a combined system to dissipate during heavy use! I'm sure the iMac engineers have thought of this and engineered the iMac to aggressively down-throttle the CPU and GPU so that they stay just below their respective T Junctions and hope the end user won't notice the crippled performance. And yes, I'm sure that either setup will work fine for awhile, but I also suspect that by operating so close to the their T Junctions, they'll slowly "bake" the internal components, causing premature failure/issues.

Personally, I would go for the lower TDP CPU and GPUs to allow for a little thermal headroom and maximum intended performance.

 

[macdaw]

Apple does offer the i7 7700 option (65 watt TDP) in a BTO 2017 21.5" Retina iMac.

Hello,
This could be the solution !? The screen is not 27" but the 21.5" is 4K though.
According to these results https://browser.geekbench.com/mac-benchmarks, could we expect the same performance as the Mac Pro 6 cores ?
Is anybody have this iMac and could run the bench session above ? This would be The test ;-)

Thanks

 

[DQ11]

Hello,
This could be the solution !? The screen is not 27" but the 21.5" is 4K though.
According to these results https://browser.geekbench.com/mac-benchmarks, could we expect the same performance as the Mac Pro 6 cores ?
Is anybody have this iMac and could run the bench session above ? This would be The test ;-)

Thanks

I also want to know this. I'm buying a new imac in June specifically for making music in Logic Pro X. I can't decide between the 2017 21.5" 4k imac + i7-7770 +16gb Ram + 512 SSD = $2,850 ( with tax+applecare+Logic Pro X+Cd Burner+Track Pad)

or if I should get the 2017 27" 5k imac +i5-7600+8/16gb Ram + 512 SSD = $2,950 or possibly $3,100 depending if I upgrade something else.

I was wondering how the i7-7700 does for heat issues compared to the i5 and the i7-7700k.

The i7-7700 is only a 65w chip...the same as the i5-7600....but it has hyperthreading.

I'm currently using a 2007 Macbook Pro with 2gb Ram+ 2.2 ghz duo core + 120gb HD, running Logic Pro 7 + OSX 10.4.1

I haven't changed a thing on it since 2007 but it still runs. It just can't do what I need it to do and it's time for an upgrade if I want to take this making music thing a bit more serious.

I'd top out at around 20-22 tracks before getting memory or cpu overload issues or whatever it's called.

I'd rather not have to freeze tracks, so I'd ideally be looking to run up to maybe 50-60 tracks on my larger projects.

I'd be using a lot of VSTs but also a good amount of Logic internal stuff as well.

I was topping out at 20 tracks on my 2007 MBP using 95% Logic internal synths. Even one instance of kontakt or I think that was it would be almost too much.


So yea I was hoping somebody else on here had used the 21.5 4k for music production.

I really don't want to have to deal with the fan noise in the 27" which is why I'm wanting to avoid the i7 in the 27".



So yea any help would be appreciated.
[doublepost=1523565106][/doublepost]^ This is the geekbench for my old 2007 MBP. https://browser.geekbench.com/macs/6

 

[1050792]

i7 always for music production since there's always a need to use tons of VST's and still the need for headroom so the CPU cores won't spike.

 

[propower]

Fully 1 year later - still love my 2017 i5 for Audio, Music Video. As long as your sessions fit in an i5 there is no downside. Still would love to see feedback on 7700 and 21.5 iMac.

 

[EugW]

Fully 1 year later - still love my 2017 i5 for Audio, Music Video. As long as your sessions fit in an i5 there is no downside. Still would love to see feedback on 7700 and 21.5 iMac.

It would be good to see Apple release those hex-core i5 iMacs next week. That would be perfect for your workload: The performance of the 7700K but cheaper and quieter.

Unfortunately, some recent rumours have cast doubt on that and are saying possibly not until maybe fall.

 

[mreg376]

i7 always for music production since there's always a need to use tons of VST's and still the need for headroom so the CPU cores won't spike.

I agree. I find amusing all of this angst about the i7 7700K running hot. Yes, at full load you'll hear the fan (I've heard mine twice when I deliberately ran three 8K videos at the same time). I have heard not a single complaint about the i7 other than the fan running high at full load. Ok fine. I have seen zero evidence that there is actually any throttling, zero reports of chip failures or the other doomsday scenarios people have been grousing about, and zero complaints about the i7 performance, this both with the 7700K's used in the iMac and on Windows machines. Just a lot of yapping, because people have decided that they don't like a chip running to its specs. So buy a lower performing CPU. My 2007 iMac has been running for a decade basically 24/7 with the back of the machine blazing hot.

 

[EugW]

I agree. I find amusing all of this angst about the i7 7700K running hot. Yes, at full load you'll hear the fan (I've heard mine twice when I deliberately ran three 8K videos at the same time). I have heard not a single complaint about the i7 other than the fan running high at full load. Ok fine. I have seen zero evidence that there is actually any throttling, zero reports of chip failures or the other doomsday scenarios people have been grousing about, and zero complaints about the i7 performance, this both with the 7700K's used in the iMac and on Windows machines. Just a lot of yapping, because people have decided that they don't like a chip running to its specs. So buy a lower performing CPU. My 2007 iMac has been running for a decade basically 24/7 with the back of the machine blazing hot.

I started noticing the fan ramp up within the first two days just with even lighter to moderate usage. Or more accurately, full CPU usage even for very short periods.

No throttling at all, no, but the fan noise was simply irritating. Doing something as simple as exporting a 1 minute video of my 4 year daughter's dance recital to send to her grandma would cause the fan to ramp up.

I wasn't concerned about the longevity at all, but the noise. So I returned it.

 

[mreg376]

I started noticing the fan ramp up within the first two days just with even lighter to moderate usage. Or more accurately, full CPU usage even for very short periods.

No throttling at all, no, but the fan noise was simply irritating. Doing something as simple as exporting a 1 minute video of my 4 year daughter's dance recital to send to her grandma would cause the fan to ramp up.

I wasn't concerned about the longevity at all, but the noise. So I returned it.

I agree, that would be unacceptable. I have not experienced that. How long ago did you make the purchase, and how much RAM were you running? My iMac is relatively recent. I wonder if they made any changes to the later builds. I also read once that there is more fan activity with only the 8GB of base ram.

 

[EugW]

I agree, that would be unacceptable. I have not experienced that. How long ago did you make the purchase, and how much RAM were you running? My iMac is relatively recent. I wonder if they made any changes to the later builds. I also read once that there is more fan activity with only the 8GB of base ram.

I ordered it very shortly after it was announced - so 11 months ago I had it in hand. The memory shouldn’t make a huge difference in terms of fan noise for a lot of that stuff, and the behaviour described is/was pretty common for the 7700K at that time regardless of the amount of memory.

 

[rjsounds]

FWIW, I have the i7 model and it's almost completely silent even when working on very large music projects in Logic Pro X with a ton of VSTs and effects. I'm very glad I went with this one.

The only time the fan has ramped up for me, (and as EugW had accurately mentioned), is when exporting video. Yes, the fan does ramp up to max when exporting video, but I'm fine with that. For some people it matters, but for me, when I'm exporting video, it's a non-issue. I let the computer do its thing until it's done exporting.

The question is if you're ok with this. It might be a bit of a compromise. If you need the i7 I say get it. If you think you'll be ok based on your sessions not requiring much CPU power for the foreseeable future, then perhaps get the i5. OR, if you're NOT in dire need of a new PC right this second, wait a bit longer and see what Apple cooks up with the next gen iMacs. Might be worth waiting for a silky smooth hexa-core.

 

[EugW]

FWIW, I have the i7 model and it's almost completely silent even when working on very large music projects in Logic Pro X with a ton of VSTs and effects. I'm very glad I went with this one.

The only time the fan has ramped up for me, (and as EugW had accurately mentioned), is when exporting video. Yes, the fan does ramp up to max when exporting video, but I'm fine with that. For some people it matters, but for me, when I'm exporting video, it's a non-issue. I let the computer do its thing until it's done exporting.

The question is if you're ok with this. It might be a bit of a compromise. If you need the i7 I say get it. If you think you'll be ok based on your sessions not requiring much CPU power for the foreseeable future, then perhaps get the i5. OR, if you're NOT in dire need of a new PC right this second, wait a bit longer and see what Apple cooks up with the next gen iMacs. Might be worth waiting for a silky smooth hexa-core.

At this point it doesn’t make sense to buy right away unless you find a killer deal or you absolutely must have a computer right now. If new iMacs don’t come next week, they should be here by fall, but with cheaper mid-range lower power CPUs that perform as well as the 7700K. This year’s release is going to be a big performance update.

 

[pier]

Fully 1 year later - still love my 2017 i5 for Audio, Music Video. As long as your sessions fit in an i5 there is no downside. Still would love to see feedback on 7700 and 21.5 iMac.

Thanks for all the info you put out here and in other forums about your research between the i5 and i7 for audio.

I decided to get the i5 based on your experiences and I haven't been disappointed. The i5 7600K is a beast for most use cases and remains cool and silent.

 

[sublunar]

Coffee Lake would make a decision this year interesting as the i5-8400 2.8GHz would come with 6 cores (6 threads) which should be be decent up against 7th generation i7 CPUs with 4 cores and 8 threads.

Of course, we could be waiting until October to find out if that's the case if recent rumours are to be believed.

 

[EugW]

Coffee Lake would make a decision this year interesting as the i5-8400 2.8GHz would come with 6 cores (6 threads) which should be be decent up against 7th generation i7 CPUs with 4 cores and 8 threads.

Of course, we could be waiting until October to find out if that's the case if recent rumours are to be believed.

I wonder if Apple will use the i5-8400. There are also the i5-8500 and i5-8600. I think my preferred CPU would be the i5-8600, but the i5-8400 is a very decent one.

 

[DQ11]

Fully 1 year later - still love my 2017 i5 for Audio, Music Video. As long as your sessions fit in an i5 there is no downside. Still would love to see feedback on 7700 and 21.5 iMac.

How large are your sessions and how many vsts are you using?

 

[DQ11]

Fully 1 year later - still love my 2017 i5 for Audio, Music Video. As long as your sessions fit in an i5 there is no downside. Still would love to see feedback on 7700 and 21.5 iMac.

How many tracks are you running ?

 

[propower]

How many tracks are you running ?

Usually 40 or less. A few VIs but mostly audio. Plugin count gets up to near 100. Still never over 40% load on things i do. Will be exploring a lot more VI work this summer and report back in a couple of months. This is the first non i7 or higher I have ever used for Audio and so far I am still 100% satisfied.

 

[DQ11]

Usually 40 or less. A few VIs but mostly audio. Plugin count gets up to near 100. Still never over 40% load on things i do. Will be exploring a lot more VI work this summer and report back in a couple of months. This is the first non i7 or higher I have ever used for Audio and so far I am still 100% satisfied.

That is great to hear. Id personally be using a good amount of VI's...mostly VI's actually, although I do have a Roland JU-06 that I love, and will use some some tracks, so that could help lighten the load a bit on those songs, but I see myself mostly using 3rd party plugings and stuff...

There are so many I've been wanting to try that I couldn't user with my 2007 MBP so I'm excited to use them once I get the imac + Logic Pro X.

If I could run 10+ VI's at once....3rd party and maybe a few internal + some audio tracks I'd be fine I think.

Most I was doing before was 15-25 tracks of pretty much all internal Logic Pro 7 synths, but once I tried to use kontakt or or use more tracks over 20-25 it just wouldn't work, and I'd be 25% into my song idea, and would just have to quit because it was so demotivating and almost depressing to know I couldn't do what I want to do musically..

It's part of the reason I stopped for a few years, but I've been saving money and will have enough to get something in the $3,000-3,500 range, so I didn't want to spend all that money, and run into similar problems I was in the past. I'd rather pay a little more and lessen the potential issues I'd maybe deal with.

Glad it's working out for you though. Which i5 did you get? the i5-7600 ?