What happened at Apple? They are eroding the reputation they spent the last decade building.
Thank you for that.If you are interested in the changes, I've made this comparison in diffchecker at the link below (from Sept 2019). Note that I had to re-order the new terms to get them to line up better (but I kept the original letters/numerals)
There actually is a subtle reference to CSAM (as noted above), but also hints that iCloud may have more sharing features in future.
Diffchecker - Compare text online to find the difference between two text files
Diffchecker will compare text to find the difference between two text files. Just paste your files and click Find Difference!www.diffchecker.com
UPDATE: Although this paragraph below appears to be 'new' in the diff above, it isn't. It appears twice in the new terms, but only once in the old ones...
Is there a way to download that comparison? like as a pdf?If you are interested in the changes, I've made this comparison in diffchecker at the link below (from Sept 2019). Note that I had to re-order the new terms to get them to line up better (but I kept the original letters/numerals)
There actually is a subtle reference to CSAM (as noted above), but also hints that iCloud may have more sharing features in future.
Diffchecker - Compare text online to find the difference between two text files
Diffchecker will compare text to find the difference between two text files. Just paste your files and click Find Difference!www.diffchecker.com
UPDATE: Although this paragraph below appears to be 'new' in the diff above, it isn't. It appears twice in the new terms, but only once in the old ones...
I’m no lawyer, but yes, this is just the T&Cs of iCloud and you have to view it with the Privacy Policy anyway, because The T&Cs will assert rights but limit them to be within the scope of the privacy policy.Thank you for that.
From my understanding, it is only what's in iCloud, not what is on your phone (as the CSAM would do). Is that the way you understand it as well?
I don’t think so. That might be a feature for paying users.Is there a way to download that comparison? like as a pdf?
THANK YOU STRUMPET!!!! For slogging through the fine print to find the hidden reason for this. I knew there had to be something but just hadn’t gotten to point of doing it. VERY INTERESTING that the link wasn’t hyper-linked. Geez, I have tons of health data on my iPhone - from my Apple Watch to fitness app, which connects to Apples Health app. If they can then access the more important professional Apps made by Hospital Groups that collect ALL my data under one user name, whether it’s endocrinology or orthopedic X-rays. I’m glad I have connected to insurance through their app yet.Sure, all the new terms and conditions seem boring and innocuous until you get to a paragraph about who Apple can share iCloud data with. Strangely, there is a link, but it is not a blue hyper link. Which should make a sentient person suspect. You have to cut and past this link in a browser, despite there being blue hype links throughout the rest of the Terms. So following the link, I note that Apple is making a contract with you (as clearly stated by them up front) to share your HEALTH DATA with 3rd parties. For one, how is apple obtaining any health date on me except nefariously, and in the face of HIPPA violations. And secondly, why are they selling it? Again, against HIPPA … which they can only do if you give them permisson. In the Covid era — in a time when the CDC has a page up about Internment Camps (euphemistically called Green Zones and “shielding) — this is highly SUSPECT and Ominous. (If the communist party wants to push something anti-human through, they attach “green” to it. The better to herd the chattel.
It's all well and good to be informed about these things, but right now there's not a whole lot to go on with this one.THANK YOU STRUMPET!!!! For slogging through the fine print to find the hidden reason for this. I knew there had to be something but just hadn’t gotten to point of doing it. VERY INTERESTING that the link wasn’t hyper-linked.
I posted the differences between the two T&C's a few posts back and I don't see any new URLs related to health, or any new T&C's related to health. You can look for yourself.THANK YOU STRUMPET!!!! For slogging through the fine print to find the hidden reason for this. I knew there had to..
Not sure if anyone brought this up, but the paragraph is not the same between the two sections. One section talks about “screen[ing],” which is the same as before — the other section discusses “prescreen[ing],” which was not there before. The latter seems to cover any future CSAM effort. What I don’t understand is why iOS 14 users have to accept an agreement that doesn’t apply to them, while iOS 12 users — for example — don’t. The new agreement is mainly tailored to iCloud+, and possibly CSAM, but otherwise doesn’t have any impact. Neither of those efforts are applicable to iOS 14.If you are interested in the changes, I've made this comparison in diffchecker at the link below (from Sept 2019). Note that I had to re-order the new terms to get them to line up better (but I kept the original letters/numerals)
There actually is a subtle reference to CSAM (as noted above), but also hints that iCloud may have more sharing features in future.
Diffchecker - Compare text online to find the difference between two text files
Diffchecker will compare text to find the difference between two text files. Just paste your files and click Find Difference!www.diffchecker.com
UPDATE: Although this paragraph below appears to be 'new' in the diff above, it isn't. It appears twice in the new terms, but only once in the old ones...
My biggest problem is the wording "You MUST agree", definitely interesting wording by apple. I do not need to agree to anything and for the currently time period, I do not need any of apple services regardless of wha their TOS states.I'm on iOS14, so this morning when i click into iCloud settings, it prompts me to agree to new terms. Anyone here getting the same prompt? Any idea what's the difference? Could it be related to CSAM as iOS15 release today?
True, however their word choice currently should yield warning to anyone to agree. "You MUST", or else what? I will take the or else, thanks.This is not new. It's been in the license agreement in this format at least since December 26th 2019:
I agree as well, first time in 10 years I have disagreed to Apples TOS and equally been locked out of iCloud and any of apples services. No problem, I do not need an iPhone, An imac, or a macbook. We unfortunately have seemed to enter an area were Apple seems to think we "need' them, no we do not. Not having an Apple device of any of their services is going to change my life in anyway.Yes I received the same prompts on my devices, and yes I believe this is the beginning of Apple's CSAM feature roll out.
You are referring to Apple's "New iCloud Terms and Conditions" dated September 20, 2021:
I never paid much attention to Apple's T&C before August 5, 2021, the date that Apple announced the imminent release of their new CSAM feature. Over the years I have always selected "Agree" when prompted because of Apple's reputation on privacy. This quote from Tim Cook on February 16, 2016 was always near and dear to my heart:
With Apple's CSAM feature announcement something changed, like a crack in the earth, and it was so disorienting to me that I was prepared before September 20, 2021 to select "Disagree", which I did, and which has now locked me out of iCloud services going forward on these devices.
The word "CSAM" does not appear explicitly in Apple's new T&C, but my read of the new terms and conditions told me that this was it.
What happened at Apple? They are eroding the reputation they spent the last decade building.
View attachment 1849917
C. Removal of Content
You acknowledge that Apple is not responsible or liable in any way for any Content provided by others and has no duty to screen such Content. However, Apple reserves the right at all times to determine whether Content is appropriate and in compliance with this Agreement, and may screen, move, refuse, modify and/or remove Content at any time, without prior notice and in its sole discretion, if such Content is found to be in violation of this Agreement or is otherwise objectionable.
Its this that worries me, can anyone explain this and if this is new? can they remove my content if they deem it objectionable? I dont do anything illegal but this world is so polarized anymore, who knows whats objectionable anymore
Regardless of what it is, Apple seems to think we have NO CHOICE but to agree, this is what is alarming for anyone using apple devices. If you use an apple device "You MUST" no, I do not. Why the change in wording in all the previous years to TOS update and terms?Almost every service makes you agree to a book full of statements that would even bore a lawyer. You have to do the same for software apps. They know we likely won’t read all, or even any, of it. Hell we could be signing away our first born child for all we know!
BTW, I think this CSAM panic is because people don’t ave a clue what it is all about. Get informed first, then make a decision. Don’t jump to conclusions until you understand what it actually will involve.
I guess we do not "need" iPhones now do we. This has been an interesting "pattern" in the tech industry the last few years is the attitude "We need them", we do not. It is a luxury and is something we "want" but it definitely is not "needed".The new billboards are going up:
What happens on your iPhone, gets scanned on your iPhone.
I guess we do not "need" iPhones now do we. This has been an interesting "pattern" in the tech industry the last few years is the attitude "We need them", we do not. It is a luxury and is something we "want" but it definitely is not "needed".
"You MUST agree', no thank you Apple.
This is exactly what I wanted to know. Thank you!If you are interested in the changes, I've made this comparison in diffchecker at the link below (from Sept 2019). Note that I had to re-order the new terms to get them to line up better (but I kept the original letters/numerals)
There actually is a subtle reference to CSAM (as noted above), but also hints that iCloud may have more sharing features in future.
Diffchecker - Compare text online to find the difference between two text files
Diffchecker will compare text to find the difference between two text files. Just paste your files and click Find Difference!www.diffchecker.com
UPDATE: Although this paragraph below appears to be 'new' in the diff above, it isn't. It appears twice in the new terms, but only once in the old ones...
I had to look up the CSAM stuff, was not aware that is what they were doing. I do not really care about the CSAM scanning, this is a pretty standard thing in hosting/cloud services and has been for many years. What I do care about is their new approach is agree or else. You did mention that Apple is still the very best company for privacy, you know what is even better? Not using their products anymore, does not get anymore secure than that.Apple is still the very best company for privacy and protecting our data.
The CSAM stuff is an implementation detail. I think it should happen in the cloud personally. It would feel less creepy, I'd also prefer my precious battery wasn't wasted scanning, and like that iOS wasn't bloated up with databases they need to scan against (even though, the database is likely to be quite small given its just hashes). Pretty much everyone else is doing the CSAM scanning, but in the cloud. Apple likes to think different, but on this occasion I think they got it wrong. Do the same as everyone else - cloud scan for illegal images.
Accepting terms for cloud services is standard. If you don't want to do that, host it yourself or don't put it in the cloud.So it looks like if I want access to say, the picture of me and my mom before she died in 1980, I must succumb to this "YOU MUST COMPLY" crap. In reality after buying 11 iphones for the family, countless ipads and ipods, I MUST look to another vendor. Does anyone have a rec on other phone brands/models? Thanks
oh I get that for sure, what I object to is them automatically doing an update, that locks me out out my photo's and docs. Then forcing me to click "ok" to a "You Must Comply" form to regain access to the date, I was having them protect for me. I see it as no different than if you put $5,000 in a bank, then the bank changes rules and says you can't have access to your money unless you comply to XYZ. Why do they get to change the rules with no warning? It's over reach and abusing me as their customer. Also, why is not everyone having to do this? None of my friends have gotten this notice. I got locked out of my cloud after copying a photo from f-book. Not posting a picture, but just copying an irony type cartoon of a handgun that was not identifying as a hand gun. YOU MUST COMPLY reeks of over reach.Accepting terms for cloud services is standard. If you don't want to do that, host it yourself or don't put it in the cloud.
access to the *DATAoh I get that for sure, what I object to is them automatically doing an update, that locks me out out my photo's and docs. Then forcing me to click "ok" to a "You Must Comply" form to regain access to the date, I was having them protect for me. I see it as no different than if you put $5,000 in a bank, then the bank changes rules and says you can't have access to your money unless you comply to XYZ. Why do they get to change the rules with no warning? It's over reach and abusing me as their customer. Also, why is not everyone having to do this? None of my friends have gotten this notice. I got locked out of my cloud after copying a photo from f-book. Not posting a picture, but just copying an irony type cartoon of a handgun that was not identifying as a hand gun. YOU MUST COMPLY reeks of over reach.
Thus back to my question does anyone have a non apple phone they like
You won’t find it different in any other legitimate cloud service. When the features change the agreement has to change. If you think there’s an unacceptable change in there why not quote it here to alert other readers. There’s a handy comparison on page 1 which only takes a minute to scan.oh I get that for sure, what I object to is them automatically doing an update, that locks me out out my photo's and docs. Then forcing me to click "ok" to a "You Must Comply" form to regain access to the date, I was having them protect for me. I see it as no different than if you put $5,000 in a bank, then the bank changes rules and says you can't have access to your money unless you comply to XYZ. Why do they get to change the rules with no warning? It's over reach and abusing me as their customer. Also, why is not everyone having to do this? None of my friends have gotten this notice. I got locked out of my cloud after copying a photo from f-book. Not posting a picture, but just copying an irony type cartoon of a handgun that was not identifying as a hand gun. YOU MUST COMPLY reeks of over reach.
Thus back to my question does anyone have a non apple phone they like
So following the link, I note that Apple is making a contract with you (as clearly stated by them up front) to share your HEALTH DATA with 3rd parties. For one, how is apple obtaining any health date on me except nefariously, and in the face of HIPPA violations. And secondly, why are they selling it? Again, against HIPPA