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iCloud force us to agree to new terms to continue using it's service
- Thread starter eastworm
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Thank you for that.If you are interested in the changes, I've made this comparison in diffchecker at the link below (from Sept 2019). Note that I had to re-order the new terms to get them to line up better (but I kept the original letters/numerals)
There actually is a subtle reference to CSAM (as noted above), but also hints that iCloud may have more sharing features in future.
Apple T&C changes - Diffchecker
Apple T&C changes - THIS LEGAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN YOU AND APPLE GOVERNS YOUR USE OF THE iCLOUD PRODUCT, SOFTWARE, SERVICEwww.diffchecker.com
UPDATE: Although this paragraph below appears to be 'new' in the diff above, it isn't. It appears twice in the new terms, but only once in the old ones...
From my understanding, it is only what's in iCloud, not what is on your phone (as the CSAM would do). Is that the way you understand it as well?
Is there a way to download that comparison? like as a pdf?If you are interested in the changes, I've made this comparison in diffchecker at the link below (from Sept 2019). Note that I had to re-order the new terms to get them to line up better (but I kept the original letters/numerals)
There actually is a subtle reference to CSAM (as noted above), but also hints that iCloud may have more sharing features in future.
Apple T&C changes - Diffchecker
Apple T&C changes - THIS LEGAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN YOU AND APPLE GOVERNS YOUR USE OF THE iCLOUD PRODUCT, SOFTWARE, SERVICEwww.diffchecker.com
UPDATE: Although this paragraph below appears to be 'new' in the diff above, it isn't. It appears twice in the new terms, but only once in the old ones...
I’m no lawyer, but yes, this is just the T&Cs of iCloud and you have to view it with the Privacy Policy anyway, because The T&Cs will assert rights but limit them to be within the scope of the privacy policy.
Regarding CSAM, I don’t know, but the system described by Apple does only half a job on the phone, and relies 100% on iCloud, so I’d expect the iCloud T&Cs would be enough to cover Apple legally. ie “if you use iCloud Photos your uploads will be pre-screened on your device’.
THANK YOU STRUMPET!!!! For slogging through the fine print to find the hidden reason for this. I knew there had to be something but just hadn’t gotten to point of doing it. VERY INTERESTING that the link wasn’t hyper-linked. Geez, I have tons of health data on my iPhone - from my Apple Watch to fitness app, which connects to Apples Health app. If they can then access the more important professional Apps made by Hospital Groups that collect ALL my data under one user name, whether it’s endocrinology or orthopedic X-rays. I’m glad I have connected to insurance through their app yet.
This whole “must agree or can’t use our service, and screw you if you don’t like it” trend should be a big heads up.
I say trend because I bought this cool mouse (yes just a mouse) by Microsoft. But it had the exact same wording, agree to terms or send it back. I asked my tech savvy kids and they thought sounded a bit suspect. I have no idea what a mouse could tell them but a keyboard! So I returned it.
I’m guessing this is a test to see if people will just say okay, like some above have said.
And it’s pure arrogance as well. Apple is counting on iPhone users not to want to mess with their phone. They know they have corner on the market. I love my iPhone but this behavior. NO. I KNEW there had to be something in there.
sigh. So as long as I don’t use iCloud at all, I should be able to say okay because I won’t be backing anything up to iCloud. WOW this is going to SO totally be the biggest pain ever!!!! How sweet to send me emails telling me I’m being given iCloud+ for FREE at the same time.
Anybody know of a basic and safe cloud data storage?
I used to use Carbonite but they got pushy and unwieldy.
Again, thanks for filtering through all that to find the hidden bombshell.
Health data in the next decades is guaranteed to be fought over by the government and insurance companies: With our debt? And the healthcare that’s promised? The money just isn’t there, folks. Hospital officials are already discussing years ago (I have a relative who was in healthcare administration at one time and about the time the Obamacare was hitting, these discussions began. It’s amazing how easily people fall for the logic trap: when asked if you are guiding a train and you can go left and kill one person or go right and kill five, what is your choice? That was the discussion. And people follow along and of course say 1, and now you have them accepting the concept. But if you say let’s back up here- how about we brainstorm for ways nobody gets hit by a train? -that changes the conversation.). We all need to brush up on logical argumentation, being led to conclusions because someone else got to frame the questions.
Sorry this is such a long response, but this is serious and important. It’s been on the horizon for a while.
It's all well and good to be informed about these things, but right now there's not a whole lot to go on with this one.
Myself and gistme have already asked Strumpet to provide the actual URL they found to have a look at it, but so far they've failed to produce the URL. This despite MR rules specifically stating that sources must be provided when requested:
"If you can't produce evidence when someone asks you to cite your sources, we may remove your posts."
Searching for "http", "www", "/" and "apple.com" in the iCloud T&C document reveals no non-hyperlinked URLs either. Though possible, it's highly unlikely that one would exist without at least one of these.
Basically... can't verify, need more info.
I posted the differences between the two T&C's a few posts back and I don't see any new URLs related to health, or any new T&C's related to health. You can look for yourself.
Also, you already know your device collects health data, because you are already using it for that purpose. The T&Cs just ensure that everyone understands that you are putting your health data on their services, because they are legally required to get your permission. It doesn't mean they are snooping on it and selling it and using it to build a master race. It's like the 'contains nuts' label on a packet of nuts. Lawyers getting paid to state the bleeding obvious.
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Not sure if anyone brought this up, but the paragraph is not the same between the two sections. One section talks about “screen[ing],” which is the same as before — the other section discusses “prescreen[ing],” which was not there before. The latter seems to cover any future CSAM effort. What I don’t understand is why iOS 14 users have to accept an agreement that doesn’t apply to them, while iOS 12 users — for example — don’t. The new agreement is mainly tailored to iCloud+, and possibly CSAM, but otherwise doesn’t have any impact. Neither of those efforts are applicable to iOS 14.If you are interested in the changes, I've made this comparison in diffchecker at the link below (from Sept 2019). Note that I had to re-order the new terms to get them to line up better (but I kept the original letters/numerals)
There actually is a subtle reference to CSAM (as noted above), but also hints that iCloud may have more sharing features in future.
Apple T&C changes - Diffchecker
Apple T&C changes - THIS LEGAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN YOU AND APPLE GOVERNS YOUR USE OF THE iCLOUD PRODUCT, SOFTWARE, SERVICEwww.diffchecker.com
UPDATE: Although this paragraph below appears to be 'new' in the diff above, it isn't. It appears twice in the new terms, but only once in the old ones...
My biggest problem is the wording "You MUST agree", definitely interesting wording by apple. I do not need to agree to anything and for the currently time period, I do not need any of apple services regardless of wha their TOS states.
Apple might want to consider that fact that I DO NOT need their phone or their services in order to live my life.
True, however their word choice currently should yield warning to anyone to agree. "You MUST", or else what? I will take the or else, thanks.
I agree as well, first time in 10 years I have disagreed to Apples TOS and equally been locked out of iCloud and any of apples services. No problem, I do not need an iPhone, An imac, or a macbook. We unfortunately have seemed to enter an area were Apple seems to think we "need' them, no we do not. Not having an Apple device of any of their services is going to change my life in anyway.Yes I received the same prompts on my devices, and yes I believe this is the beginning of Apple's CSAM feature roll out.
You are referring to Apple's "New iCloud Terms and Conditions" dated September 20, 2021:
I never paid much attention to Apple's T&C before August 5, 2021, the date that Apple announced the imminent release of their new CSAM feature. Over the years I have always selected "Agree" when prompted because of Apple's reputation on privacy. This quote from Tim Cook on February 16, 2016 was always near and dear to my heart:
With Apple's CSAM feature announcement something changed, like a crack in the earth, and it was so disorienting to me that I was prepared before September 20, 2021 to select "Disagree", which I did, and which has now locked me out of iCloud services going forward on these devices.
The word "CSAM" does not appear explicitly in Apple's new T&C, but my read of the new terms and conditions told me that this was it.
"You MUST agree" no, no thank you lol.
The new billboards are going up:
What happens on your iPhone, gets scanned on your iPhone.
Regardless of what it is, Apple seems to think we have NO CHOICE but to agree, this is what is alarming for anyone using apple devices. If you use an apple device "You MUST" no, I do not. Why the change in wording in all the previous years to TOS update and terms?Almost every service makes you agree to a book full of statements that would even bore a lawyer. You have to do the same for software apps. They know we likely won’t read all, or even any, of it. Hell we could be signing away our first born child for all we know!
BTW, I think this CSAM panic is because people don’t ave a clue what it is all about. Get informed first, then make a decision. Don’t jump to conclusions until you understand what it actually will involve.
Disagree, I disagree and so should anyone else.
"Hi, I bought an Iphone and now I am a victim to Apple Inc." no thank you.
I guess we do not "need" iPhones now do we. This has been an interesting "pattern" in the tech industry the last few years is the attitude "We need them", we do not. It is a luxury and is something we "want" but it definitely is not "needed".
"You MUST agree', no thank you Apple.
Apple is still the very best company for privacy and protecting our data.
The CSAM stuff is an implementation detail. I think it should happen in the cloud personally. It would feel less creepy, I'd also prefer my precious battery wasn't wasted scanning, and like that iOS wasn't bloated up with databases they need to scan against (even though, the database is likely to be quite small given its just hashes). Pretty much everyone else is doing the CSAM scanning, but in the cloud. Apple likes to think different, but on this occasion I think they got it wrong. Do the same as everyone else - cloud scan for illegal images.
This is exactly what I wanted to know. Thank you!If you are interested in the changes, I've made this comparison in diffchecker at the link below (from Sept 2019). Note that I had to re-order the new terms to get them to line up better (but I kept the original letters/numerals)
There actually is a subtle reference to CSAM (as noted above), but also hints that iCloud may have more sharing features in future.
Apple T&C changes - Diffchecker
Apple T&C changes - THIS LEGAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN YOU AND APPLE GOVERNS YOUR USE OF THE iCLOUD PRODUCT, SOFTWARE, SERVICEwww.diffchecker.com
UPDATE: Although this paragraph below appears to be 'new' in the diff above, it isn't. It appears twice in the new terms, but only once in the old ones...
I had to look up the CSAM stuff, was not aware that is what they were doing. I do not really care about the CSAM scanning, this is a pretty standard thing in hosting/cloud services and has been for many years. What I do care about is their new approach is agree or else. You did mention that Apple is still the very best company for privacy, you know what is even better? Not using their products anymore, does not get anymore secure than that.
This whole privacy thing is entirely reliant on any of us using their products and services, stop using them, the problem goes away, pretty simple. I do not know about you, but I am not much of a fan of being controlled by things that I own because the people who made it said I "must" do it or else.
However, Apple is going to try.. lol.
So it looks like if I want access to say, the picture of me and my mom before she died in 1980, I must succumb to this "YOU MUST COMPLY" crap. In reality after buying 11 iphones for the family, countless ipads and ipods, I MUST look to another vendor. Does anyone have a rec on other phone brands/models? Thanks
Accepting terms for cloud services is standard. If you don't want to do that, host it yourself or don't put it in the cloud.
oh I get that for sure, what I object to is them automatically doing an update, that locks me out out my photo's and docs. Then forcing me to click "ok" to a "You Must Comply" form to regain access to the date, I was having them protect for me. I see it as no different than if you put $5,000 in a bank, then the bank changes rules and says you can't have access to your money unless you comply to XYZ. Why do they get to change the rules with no warning? It's over reach and abusing me as their customer. Also, why is not everyone having to do this? None of my friends have gotten this notice. I got locked out of my cloud after copying a photo from f-book. Not posting a picture, but just copying an irony type cartoon of a handgun that was not identifying as a hand gun. YOU MUST COMPLY reeks of over reach.
Thus back to my question does anyone have a non apple phone they like
You won’t find it different in any other legitimate cloud service. When the features change the agreement has to change. If you think there’s an unacceptable change in there why not quote it here to alert other readers. There’s a handy comparison on page 1 which only takes a minute to scan.
100% incorrect. Before quoting HIPAA please understand what the law covers and, more specifically, what it does NOT cover.
First of all, it's HIPAA and not HIPPA, and the P in HIPAA stands for Portability - not Privacy.
Next, HIPAA covers only certain information held by covered entities. The vast majority of these entities are Healthcare providers, companies offering health plans, and medical clearinghouse - and business associates that directly work with the covered entities.
And thirdly, HIPAA defines how health records by covered entities can be provided to other HIPAA covered entities.
Apple are NOT a covered entity under HIPAA. Therefore data stored on Healthkit isn't covered by HIPAA either.