If Apple had two product lines..

[Skoobunny]

Hi,

would you buy a brand new Macbook (Air/Pro) with an Intel processor today? I'm not talking about laptops before changing the processor to M1. The question is: if Apple had two lines of computers/laptops in its offer: one with M1/M2/Mx processors and the other with Intel processors, which processor would you choose? I'm asking because for me M1/M2 processors mean the need to use a laptop from 2018, which, as everyone knows, is Apple's biggest failure in the last decade. It has had two matrix replacements and I know that in two years at most I will have to repair it again. But for professional reasons, I must have on my laptop at least a virtual machine with Windows (version for Intel processors), so Apple has no offer for me. The day my laptop finally fails will be the first time since 1986 that I will buy a laptop from a company other than Apple. It's a bit of a pity, but I have no other choice. And I don't really feel like using two separate laptops. Plus, it's bad for the environment.

 

[Andropov]

would you buy a brand new Macbook (Air/Pro) with an Intel processor today?

No. Take this from someone whose work computer is the last Intel MacBook and has a M1 Pro MacBook as his non-work laptop.

The day my laptop finally fails will be the first time since 1986 that I will buy a laptop from a company other than Apple. It's a bit of a pity, but I have no other choice. And I don't really feel like using two separate laptops. Plus, it's bad for the environment.

Either your non-Apple 1986 laptop lasted for a *really* long time or you'd have had the same issues trying to buy a Windows-compatible Macintosh laptop between 1991 and 2006

 

[ericwn]

I wouldn’t want an intel Mac these days and I also have no use for Windows.

 

[Skoobunny]

Either your non-Apple 1986 laptop lasted for a *really* long time or you'd have had the same issues trying to buy a Windows-compatible Macintosh laptop between 1991 and 2006

I need Windows on my laptop for three years. Since the introduction of a document workflow management in the company I work for, which runs only on Windows...

 

[maflynn]

would you buy a brand new Macbook (Air/Pro) with an Intel processor today?

Apple cannot tout the superiority of their ARM processor and then turn around and release an intel based laptop. That would be marketing suicide and Apple's competitors would jump on them for flip/flopping so quickly.

Also consider that the rosetta 2 is a temporary solution, if Apple introduced intel based computers again, developers would stop converting their apps from intel to ARM. There would be no reason since Apple would be supporting intel compatibility permanently.

 

[Skoobunny]

Apple cannot tout the superiority of their ARM processor and then turn around and release an intel based laptop. That would be marketing suicide and Apple's competitors would jump on them for flip/flopping so quickly.

Also consider that the rosetta 2 is a temporary solution, if Apple introduced intel based computers again, developers would stop converting their apps from intel to ARM. There would be no reason since Apple would be supporting intel compatibility permanently.

There is no thing in the world that is the best of everything. ARM has its advantages, Intel has its own. The desire of every manufacturer is to sell as many of their products as possible. There will be customers for ARM, just like there will be for Intel. On the car market, the same manufacturers offered diesel and petrol engines. What matters is the client, not ideology.

 

[maflynn]

There is no thing in the world that is the best of everything. ARM has its advantages, Intel has its own.

In the world of marketing if you tout how superior ARM is over Intel and then release an Intel computer. You're shooting yourself in the foot. You cannot market how great one platform is over another and then try sell both.

On the car market, the same manufacturers offered diesel and petrol engines.

Your analogy will hold merit if Tesla releases a car with a gas engine. The car industry is closer to the computer industry where manufacturers makes multiple types, i.e., GM, Ford and is comparable to Dell, HP, Lenovo. Then you have the single source company, like Tesla - they're comparable to Apple. You won't hear Musk promoting a V6 engine in his cars after spending years marketing and praising EVs.

Does intel machines do some things better then ARM, yes, but that doesn't automatically mean Apple should abandon their philosophy of single sourcing the components and offer two platforms that will confuse their customers.

 

[Lifeisabeach]

I need Windows on my laptop for three years. Since the introduction of a document workflow management in the company I work for, which runs only on Windows...

Are you unable to do this now in a virtual machine? If you can't, then you can't. If you can, well then why wouldn't you?

I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility that dual-booting Windows for ARM will come eventually. Microsoft is only just now blessing the use of Windows 11 in virtual machines... presumably they had an exclusive agreement with Qualcomm that has expired. Remember... Boot Camp wasn't a thing out the gate with Intel Macs and Apple isn't blind to the needs of their user base. Now that MS is free to support VMs on ARM, native booting on Apple Silicon could be in the cards in the near future.

 

[Skoobunny]

In the world of marketing if you tout how superior ARM is over Intel and then release an Intel computer. You're shooting yourself in the foot. You cannot market how great one platform is over another and then try sell both.


Your analogy will hold merit if Tesla releases a car with a gas engine. The car industry is closer to the computer industry where manufacturers makes multiple types, i.e., GM, Ford and is comparable to Dell, HP, Lenovo. Then you have the single source company, like Tesla - they're comparable to Apple. You won't hear Musk promoting a V6 engine in his cars after spending years marketing and praising EVs.

Does intel machines do some things better then ARM, yes, but that doesn't automatically mean Apple should abandon their philosophy of single sourcing the components and offer two platforms that will confuse their customers.

Just don't use the rather controversial argument that ARM is best at everything. Say that if you want to have the same (more or less) performance as Intel, but work on the battery twice as long, then choose ARM.


Many car manufacturers, despite the start of production of electric cars, offer both gasoline and diesel engines. Tesla started with electrics because it didn't exist before.


Intel processors can address terabytes of RAM. ARM can do 192 GB..... This is a significant difference for potential customers.

 

[ftaok]

I need Windows on my laptop for three years. Since the introduction of a document workflow management in the company I work for, which runs only on Windows...

If your company requires you to use a Windows computer, then they should provide you with a Windows computer.

I understand there are situations where a company will give you an allowance for you to purchase a computer for work. Is that the case for you? If so, don't mess around and try to buy something that may/may not work 100% of the time with the company software. Just buy a proper Windows laptop for work.

 

[Skoobunny]

Are you unable to do this now in a virtual machine? If you can't, then you can't. If you can, well then why wouldn't you?

I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility that dual-booting Windows for ARM will come eventually. Microsoft is only just now blessing the use of Windows 11 in virtual machines... presumably they had an exclusive agreement with Qualcomm that has expired. Remember... Boot Camp wasn't a thing out the gate with Intel Macs and Apple isn't blind to the needs of their user base. Now that MS is free to support VMs on ARM, native booting on Apple Silicon could be in the cards in the near future.

I need a laptop on which I can run a virtual machine with Windows for Intel processors.

 

[Lifeisabeach]

I need a laptop on which I can run a virtual machine with Windows for Intel processors.

Well then enjoy your future as a Windows user and enthusiast.

 

[Skoobunny]

If your company requires you to use a Windows computer, then they should provide you with a Windows computer.

I understand there are situations where a company will give you an allowance for you to purchase a computer for work. Is that the case for you? If so, don't mess around and try to buy something that may/may not work 100% of the time with the company software. Just buy a proper Windows laptop for work.

Of course, I got a Lenovo laptop at work. But having two laptops is just tiring. Always the most important document will be on the second one, which of course stayed at work.

 

[maflynn]

I need a laptop on which I can run a virtual machine with Windows for Intel processors.

Then you need a PC, not a Mac. Get the right tool for the job

 

[Skoobunny]

Well then enjoy your future as a Windows user and enthusiast.

if I do that, Apple won't lose anything. If a lot of customers do it, Apple will go Nokia's way.

 

[Skoobunny]

Then you need a PC, not a Mac. Get the right tool for the job

I can still work on my 2018 MacBook Pro. I'd like to be able to do this on a macbook currently sold in the Apple Store

 

[Lifeisabeach]

if I do that, Apple won't lose anything. If a lot of customers do it, Apple will go Nokia's way.

We're 2... no 3. Nearly three years in. Apple is doing fine.

 

[Skoobunny]

We're 2... no 3. Nearly three years in. Apple is doing fine.

Really?

Apple sales in biggest fall since 2019

The decline came as people cut back in the face of higher living costs, said Apple's boss.

www.bbc.com

....Sales of its popular iPhones were down more than 8%, and sales of Mac computers dropped 29%......

 

[ftaok]

Of course, I got a Lenovo laptop at work. But having two laptops is just tiring. Always the most important document will be on the second one, which of course stayed at work.

Windows only software is one thing, so there's nothing you can do about it. However, if you need access to documents and files, just use a cloud drive (with your company's approval, of course). My company uses OneDrive and Sharepoint. If I needed to, I could access it through my Mac.

Another option, although not ideal is to remote connect into a real Windows machine. Or maybe use a service like Citrix.

 

[cthompson94]

Really?

Apple sales in biggest fall since 2019

The decline came as people cut back in the face of higher living costs, said Apple's boss.

www.bbc.com

....Sales of its popular iPhones were down more than 8%, and sales of Mac computers dropped 29%......

This isn't do to Apple though many tech companies are down in sales. The economy globally is taking a hit, interest rates in the U.S. are going up and so the average person has less money to spend on on new devices

 

[velocityg4]

If you are dead set on using a Mac for work. You can leave the work's Windows laptop running in clamshell mode. Then remote into it with Remote Desktop from the Mac. Using the Windows workspace similar to how you would use a VM.

To have secure access anywhere. You can setup a VPN. Allowing your Mac remote access to the work laptop.

For your document problem. You can create a shared folder from either the Mac or Windows laptop. Mounting it like any other network volume. Alternatively you can make something like OneDrive your default save directory. So, the files are all cloud synced.

Really, at that point you wouldn't even need a work laptop. They already provided it. So, you may as well use it. But unless the workflow software requires a lot of CPU power. You could use something like an Intel NUC headless for the Windows work.

As for needing Intel Windows. The ARM version of Windows runs a wide range of x86 software. Windows 11 expanded 64 bit compatibility. Have you actually tried running your workflow software in a Windows 11 VM on an ARM Mac and verified it doesn't work?

 

[iAssimilated]

If you are dead set on using a Mac for work. You can leave the work's Windows laptop running in clamshell mode. Then remote into it with Remote Desktop from the Mac. Using the Windows workspace similar to how you would use a VM.

To have secure access anywhere. You can setup a VPN. Allowing your Mac remote access to the work laptop.

For your document problem. You can create a shared folder from either the Mac or Windows laptop. Mounting it like any other network volume. Alternatively you can make something like OneDrive your default save directory. So, the files are all cloud synced.

Really, at that point you wouldn't even need a work laptop. They already provided it. So, you may as well use it. But unless the workflow software requires a lot of CPU power. You could use something like an Intel NUC headless for the Windows work.

As for needing Intel Windows. The ARM version of Windows runs a wide range of x86 software. Windows 11 expanded 64 bit compatibility. Have you actually tried running your workflow software in a Windows 11 VM on an ARM Mac and verified it doesn't work?

I do something very similar. I work in a school district that is almost all Windows based, but I have a Mac mini as my main computer. This is possible because most of the systems I support are cloud based, but for the few on prem systems I do have to use, I have a Windows VM provided by our server guys that I remote into. All the files I need to access on both systems reside in OneDrive. The whole setup works great! I am grateful and blessed my boss is okay with this since I prefer macOS.

 

[jz0309]

what if Intel were loosing up and allow/offer x86 emulation on ARM?
Apple's direction is clear for almost 3 years now, if you don't like it, get a PC...

 

[snak-atak]

I need Windows on my laptop for three years. Since the introduction of a document workflow management in the company I work for, which runs only on Windows...

I am in a similar situation with my employer, so I bought a cheap Lenovo laptop that quietly sits in the corner of my office which I remote into from my Mac Studio to do the work I need to. That was the best compromise for me, AND I don’t have to load any work specific apps onto my Mac.

 

[Lifeisabeach]

Really?

Apple sales in biggest fall since 2019

The decline came as people cut back in the face of higher living costs, said Apple's boss.

www.bbc.com

....Sales of its popular iPhones were down more than 8%, and sales of Mac computers dropped 29%......

Yes. That has nothing to do with the transition from Intel to ARM.