Apple's official stance is that there is no problem. Apple's emolyees therefore say the same.
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If Apple refuses to fix the signal issue, they can't keep selling the iP4 by law
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Apple's official stance is that there is no problem. Apple's emolyees therefore say the same.
People keep tossing this around, but I don't see how this affects the reception.
I'm a righty and when I speak on the phone, I use my right hand and my right pinky is covering Area 51.
As for "whiners", please have some sympathy. No one is out the get your beloved company or your idol. We just want our phones to work.
My iPhone 4 makes phone calls quite easily. If it was IMPOSSIBLE to make phone calls with it, you might have something...
If a hand-held telephone cannot hold a sustainable telephone connection while being held in the hand, it cannot be said to be fit for purpose.
Would you like me to take a video of me making a phone call with the phone in my hand for you?
I am enjoying my new iPhone for the second day and really love the new look and the screen resolution (compared to 3GS). The main negatives I have for iPhone 4 are the same as I had for 3GS. 3.5" screen feels small now, and after using Android for about 3-4 months I like how they don't display the bottom menu for apps and browser until you press the menu button. This really makes more of screen available for viewing apps and web pages.
But, today I hit into the antenna issue several times when I was at my kids basketball game. My palms were little sweaty which might have helped the dropped calls and no service problems pop up even when I have just my thumb there on the dreaded spot. Being a lefty I have my palm there when browsing and even for calls when I don't use bluetooth. I tried to hold it differently but with the sweaty palms and the glassy finish, I was worried I will drop the phone. I hate to cover my phone but I always try to use screen protectors. Just ordered ZAGG full body protector to see if it will help me in at least making the phone non-slippery.
I hope apple comes with some fix soon or else I might simply exchange it for Samsung galaxy if it comes within my 30-day return period. Else, I will just ebay it and get Xperia X10a which I already loved on T-mobile.
But, today I hit into the antenna issue several times when I was at my kids basketball game. My palms were little sweaty which might have helped the dropped calls and no service problems pop up even when I have just my thumb there on the dreaded spot. Being a lefty I have my palm there when browsing and even for calls when I don't use bluetooth. I tried to hold it differently but with the sweaty palms and the glassy finish, I was worried I will drop the phone. I hate to cover my phone but I always try to use screen protectors. Just ordered ZAGG full body protector to see if it will help me in at least making the phone non-slippery.
I hope apple comes with some fix soon or else I might simply exchange it for Samsung galaxy if it comes within my 30-day return period. Else, I will just ebay it and get Xperia X10a which I already loved on T-mobile.
How about a video of what happens to your signal after picking the phone up for a bit?
I wouldn't say it's impossible to make calls but when you have to make sure to hold your phone a certain way for it to work, I think that's a problem.
You can drive this car but only if you don't lean the seat back.
"Demean and deter" that's exactly right, well said!
I can't be bothered responding endlessly to the crowds/swarms of them here, so, later. Give 'em hell for me!
wow. A few short years and we all forget.
Dont you guys remember a few years back when almost all cell phones where Flip style and most had a stubby antenna sticking out the top? I seem to recall several different phones that I had telling me in the manual not to hold the phone with my finger resting on the antenna base or else I could experience signal loss.
Well for me and much of the population, resting my finger there was "Natural" yet due to the limitations of technology we either learned to hold it differently or dealt with the signal loss.
Why is this different? why was no one ready to sue samsung & LG for this a few years ago?
P.S. Proving that this issue constitutes "not fit for purpose" would be difficult. part of the reason is that in my experience, strong signal areas this phenomenon is not that noticeable, it is in fringe areas that it is an issue. in which case apple could argue that this is a carrier issue rather that a hardware/device Issue.
Dont you guys remember a few years back when almost all cell phones where Flip style and most had a stubby antenna sticking out the top? I seem to recall several different phones that I had telling me in the manual not to hold the phone with my finger resting on the antenna base or else I could experience signal loss.
Well for me and much of the population, resting my finger there was "Natural" yet due to the limitations of technology we either learned to hold it differently or dealt with the signal loss.
Why is this different? why was no one ready to sue samsung & LG for this a few years ago?
P.S. Proving that this issue constitutes "not fit for purpose" would be difficult. part of the reason is that in my experience, strong signal areas this phenomenon is not that noticeable, it is in fringe areas that it is an issue. in which case apple could argue that this is a carrier issue rather that a hardware/device Issue.
Think of it this way:
If you own a car, and there was a spot on the dashboard that you could touch, and upon contact with the fingertip/skin, the car shut off, totally dead, would you consider that a problem? Ok, let's take it a step further.
Let's say that spot on the dashboard wasn't in a directly visible spot, from the normal seated position behind the steering wheel. In fact, it's under the bottom lip of the dashboard, and while you can't see if in the normal seated position, if you were to twist your body somewhat to the right you just might be able to see it. Regardless of the visible reference, you know where the spot is an it's easily "pressed" regardless of your position, either sitting completely upright behind the wheel - the "normal" driving position - or even if you twisted your body or contorted it to some degree onto the passenger seat.
Disclaimer: I'm using a US-style auto for reference, steering wheel on the left, so twisting to the right leans the person towards the passenger side of the front seat.
Now, regardless of the fact that you can easily touch that spot, you could argue that it's not something that you would be pressing or touching with any frequency of regularity - it exists, it disables the car, and you don't even have to really go "out of your way" to reach it - it's within reach from the normal driving position or even if you did have to contort/twist yourself from the "normal" upright behind the wheel position.
With the iPhone 4, which is a hand-held cellular telephone first and foremost even in spite of all the cool stuff it's capable of, isn't working as a cellular telephone when many of us owners (and more by the minute) hold it in our hands in the normal way that most any human being on the planet would hold a cellular telephone.
There's nothing funky about it, no need to contort or twist ourselves or our hands, no requirements to alter our normal "grip" that we've all been using for many many years now, etc. The "spot" on the iPhone 4 is there, it's in easy reach, it doesn't require any special "death grip" (even in spite of the name, I disapprove of it) at all, and in what pretty much everyone would call normal usage, many of us end up with a dead phone not able to make a call, stay on a call, or use the data capabilities of the iPhone 4.
If this was some defect that only one or two people out of all the iPhone 4 owners reported on, it could easily be dismissed and accepted (at the same time, actually) as a defective unit or two for those one or two specific devices exhibiting the defect(s) only. But that's not the case, it's not even close as thousands upon thousands of people are reporting on their troubles.
MacRumors ain't the only forum covering this, with people reporting. There's hundreds of forums with thousands of reports out there... this is real, and it's because the iPhone 4 - I believe - is defective because of the design, just as I state in my sig. While some folks aren't experiencing issues, a lot actually, a lot of us are.
End of story.
If you own a car, and there was a spot on the dashboard that you could touch, and upon contact with the fingertip/skin, the car shut off, totally dead, would you consider that a problem? Ok, let's take it a step further.
Let's say that spot on the dashboard wasn't in a directly visible spot, from the normal seated position behind the steering wheel. In fact, it's under the bottom lip of the dashboard, and while you can't see if in the normal seated position, if you were to twist your body somewhat to the right you just might be able to see it. Regardless of the visible reference, you know where the spot is an it's easily "pressed" regardless of your position, either sitting completely upright behind the wheel - the "normal" driving position - or even if you twisted your body or contorted it to some degree onto the passenger seat.
Disclaimer: I'm using a US-style auto for reference, steering wheel on the left, so twisting to the right leans the person towards the passenger side of the front seat.
Now, regardless of the fact that you can easily touch that spot, you could argue that it's not something that you would be pressing or touching with any frequency of regularity - it exists, it disables the car, and you don't even have to really go "out of your way" to reach it - it's within reach from the normal driving position or even if you did have to contort/twist yourself from the "normal" upright behind the wheel position.
With the iPhone 4, which is a hand-held cellular telephone first and foremost even in spite of all the cool stuff it's capable of, isn't working as a cellular telephone when many of us owners (and more by the minute) hold it in our hands in the normal way that most any human being on the planet would hold a cellular telephone.
There's nothing funky about it, no need to contort or twist ourselves or our hands, no requirements to alter our normal "grip" that we've all been using for many many years now, etc. The "spot" on the iPhone 4 is there, it's in easy reach, it doesn't require any special "death grip" (even in spite of the name, I disapprove of it) at all, and in what pretty much everyone would call normal usage, many of us end up with a dead phone not able to make a call, stay on a call, or use the data capabilities of the iPhone 4.
If this was some defect that only one or two people out of all the iPhone 4 owners reported on, it could easily be dismissed and accepted (at the same time, actually) as a defective unit or two for those one or two specific devices exhibiting the defect(s) only. But that's not the case, it's not even close as thousands upon thousands of people are reporting on their troubles.
MacRumors ain't the only forum covering this, with people reporting. There's hundreds of forums with thousands of reports out there... this is real, and it's because the iPhone 4 - I believe - is defective because of the design, just as I state in my sig. While some folks aren't experiencing issues, a lot actually, a lot of us are.
End of story.
Your iPhone is obviously more adversely affected than many others and Apple should replace your phone. You should be able to duplicate the problem very easily at an Apple store for a valid replacement.
That said I have the problem as well. I have to fully grip it with the fleshy part of my left hand under my thumb pressed tightly against the left antenna and my fingers touching the right antenna and then I lose cellular data and voice. HOWEVER, holding the phone in a normal manner with my right hand, I have NO problems. NO dropped calls, either, not a single one. I would guess my issue is more similar to the masses than your issue.
Again, yours is obviously worse than the rest and should definitely be replaced as defective. The iPhone 4 IS fit for purpose, your particular unit may not. Thanks for your generalization, though. Though I like my iPhone, I despise Apple, and I do agree the antenna was not designed as well as I would have liked. My phone does work though, so.....
There are people that do have the phone, and do experience the issues. They take them into the stores (this was a few days ago) and clearly demonstrate that something is going on, and the Apple Genius or whoever promptly offered replacements (I'm not citing specifics, I'm citing that this return-replace-whatever cycle has happened thousands of times in the past few days), and the customer was then rather shocked to find the replacement phone suffered the same problems, sometimes slightly better, ofttimes exactly the same, and in some cases, the replacement offered worse performance and more noticeable issues.
The issue now, as of about Monday afternoon (here in the US, that is), Apple Stores aren't quite so accepting anymore because something changed which lends strong credibility to that Boy Genius Report leaked info (if it's accurate, and all signs point to that being a positive) that basically instructs Apple Support staff in the stores to not offer replacements, to charge restocking fees if the customer attempts to or forces the return of the phone outright, and other considerations.
The fact that on Sunday someone could return or exchange an iPhone 4 at an Apple Store in a few minutes without many hassles - or a restocking fee - showed one thing, now if you make the same attempt to replace or return the phone outright the Apple Store reps are basically going to say "No, but if you pay the restocking fee we'll issue you a refund for the difference."
I have 1 friend here in Vegas that returned - not for replacement, but for complete total refund of every penny he put into it at purchase last Friday - his iPhone 4 for the very same issues others have: reception problems, green tint on snapped photos, yellowish tint on the screen (didn't go away in 4+ days of use), and he could effectively kill his iPhone 4 with a fingertip the same way I can and do and continue to be able to do (info at the link in my sig) and they tried to hit him for the restocking fee.
He was standing there demonstrating the issues and they simply ignored him, didn't act interested, like they'd heard this a thousand times before (gee, I wonder why) and didn't want to help him at all. I stood beside him and just listened - I was going to record the whole event using my iPhone 4 since it does video pretty well but, I didn't want to get involved or potentially get thrown out of the store and cause my friend grief during his return process.
Basically they did eventually refund him the entire cost he put into the phone, transferred his service back to his iPhone 3GS (which he said he's going to sell now and get an Android based device, for the specific reason that he's sick of Apple's BS from Cupertino all the way to the Apple Store here in town and everything in between), and we left.
After we walked outside into the mall area (this is the Apple Store at the Fashion Show Mall here in Las Vegas), several people came up to us and asked if he got the refund - they'd been in the store and overheard/witnessed what was going on. He told them that yes he did get the refund, that he was never going to do business with Apple again, showed his 3GS and asked "Anyone want an iPhone 3GS that actually works, cheap?" and promptly sold it to one of them for $250 on the spot. We walked over to one of the eateries in the mall, got a seat, he yanked his SIM card out, reset the device to clear off his personal data and restore factory condition, and sold it right in front of me.
Then we went to the Sprint booth and he grabbed an HTC EVO, and in 20 minutes time he was up and running, with what he considers to be a superior device, and he had full 5 bars of signal no matter where he was in the mall, and most importantly no matter how the hell he chose to hold it in his hand.
Works for him...
So something has changed: a few days ago, fairly easy returns - not replacements, returns. As of Monday or Tuesday, forget it. Apple company policy appears to be "There is no problem of any kind with the iPhone 4. If the customer is adamant, close the transaction and charge the restocking fee. If the customer refuses, rebut. If the customer persists, grant the refund and get them the hell out of the store, as quietly as possible."
Luckily, we probably saved a few folks from drinking the Kool-Aid.
It's been a good day.
As you said, they said that in the manual. The iPhone 4's included documents say nothing of the sort. The ads even show the phone being held in a way which blocks signal in real life usage.
And I don't know anyone who held their phone in a way which involved putting their hands over the sticking up antenna on the top.
I hope you sent this to sjobs@apple.com, telling us is not going to help. Now run run and tell him before he gets in trouble.
Wait what about all those people, like me, that have No issues?
But in all seriousness, Apple needs to recognize that there is a problem with their product and stop denying the truth, and if this isn't fixed in a week or two, consumers are going to be very angry.
ZOMFG! That picture cracks me up!
OK, then here is your solution. RETURN IT!!!!! If I buy a product that I dont think lives up to my standards, I take it back and dont buy it again.
Why all this whining about the signal, and threatening law suits.
EVERYONE that has purchased an iPhone 4 is still within the return period. it's not like you are locked in YET!. SO take it back. the only reason this is such an issue is because it is Apple. and everyone loves to complain about apple.
I am not a fanboy, I know they do things wrong. Quality control and defects from the factory for one. BUT, i can either take it back and move on or keep it and shut my mouth because I made that decision.
It's not a solution, it's a Band-Aid. Apple will take the phone, wipe it clean (literally, to keep it all pretty and shiny), toss it in a white box, slap a big REFURBISHED sticker on the box, and then the next sheep will have to deal with the hassles.
It's not enough.