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How much would you pay?

  • Nothing. I want it for free.

    Votes: 24 24.5%
  • $20

    Votes: 2 2.0%
  • $50

    Votes: 12 12.2%
  • $100

    Votes: 39 39.8%
  • The same price as Windows 10 Professional Edition

    Votes: 21 21.4%

  • Total voters
    98
Apple Macs were **** back then. Cute, friendly, but very expensive crap.

yeah right... back then as in the mighty Windows 95 era? *muffled laughter*

Anyway... Yes the MacOS back then had its problems, but the "Apple Macs" as you put it were solid machines. And yet...that didn't stop many people from using them and even achieve great work in some cases.
 
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yeah right... back then as in the mighty Windows 95 era? *muffled laughter*

Anyway... Yes the MacOS back then had its problems, but the "Apple Macs" as you put it were solid machines. And yet...that didn't stop many people from using them and even achieve great work in some cases.

Comparing to Win 3.11 or 95 is irrelevant. We were talking about workstations. The Mac didn't have a workstation level OS, while Irix and NT did. Unfortunately the way people remember the classic OS and what it actually was like to use day to day are world's apart. Sure you could be productive with it, slowly and with a lot of hair pulling moments.

Most people who try to remember their computing and gaming experiences from 20 years ago or more tend to whitewash the crashes, the bugs and the downsides and instead mentally upgrade those experiences to something that more closely resembles modern computing. Instead of remembering the bomb sign that appeared on the screen every two days, they only remember it happening a few times ever. When they actually come face to face those old machines and software they realise their memories aren't reliable. It really was crap back then. In fact, it's impossible for anyone to remember a computing experience accurately. If you, I or anyone says they can they've fooled themselves. In the words of Richard Feynman 'The first rule is not to fool yourself, because you are the easiest person to fool!'

Certain game developers who make retro style games such as Hotline Miami or Broforce have realised this fallacy and use modern graphics APIs to 'upgrade' retro style games with the kind of special effects that our minds tend to impose on games we played many years ago.

People don't just do that with technology. Most of our reminisces about childhood, or even history before we were born are based on logical fallacies, cognitive dissonance, subjective viewpoints, beliefs, prejudices, and downright imagination. People even get offended when they realise their imagination and memories have let them down, sometimes reacting quite angrily.
 
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yeah right... back then as in the mighty Windows 95 era? *muffled laughter*

Anyway... Yes the MacOS back then had its problems, but the "Apple Macs" as you put it were solid machines. And yet...that didn't stop many people from using them and even achieve great work in some cases.

There were more options back then and all had a decent share.
 
Cook did state in the last keynote that the ipad pro is the perfect representation of how Apple sees the future of PC.
I take it as a hint that MacOs days are numbered, and if so, it would be great if Apple released MacOs to the public domain when Apple iosifies all their harware.
 
Cook did state in the last keynote that the ipad pro is the perfect representation of how Apple sees the future of PC.
I take it as a hint that MacOs days are numbered, and if so, it would be great if Apple released MacOs to the public domain when Apple iosifies all their harware.

Release Mac OSX to the public domain if OSX reaches EOL? I doubt it. Microsoft refuses to push DOS/Win9x to the public domain, even though Windows ME has been EOL since the release of Windows XP.

I do find it interesting that Tim Cook said that he sees the iPad Pro as the future of PCs. It may well happen, but where would the rMB fit in? I personally would hate to see the iMac go. There is still no substitute for a large screen, ever.
 
Cook did state in the last keynote that the ipad pro is the perfect representation of how Apple sees the future of PC.
I take it as a hint that MacOs days are numbered, and if so, it would be great if Apple released MacOs to the public domain when Apple iosifies all their harware.

There are signs of it. There have been rumours of ARM based Macs.

It's not just Cook's vision, or Bill Gates' Origami vision, or the Jobsian vision promoted in concept videos 25 years ago, or in Jetsons cartoons. All this is a vision going back to scifi writers and comics going back to the 1950s. If it happens then OSX becomes the niche OS (it kinda is already) that they can just give away or sell to a niche crowd.

Here's another thought : Metal on the desktop isn't actually intended for our AMD/Nvidia GPUs but instead it's really to prepare developers for gradual transition to desktop iOS-ARM.
 
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I wonder whether, if you bought a PC with a compatible CPU, whether you could run OS X in a VM. When I tried it, my spare computer was an AMD, which wasn't compatible with the checks that OS X has in it's boot code.
 
If I recall 25 years ago or thereabouts there was a documentary that questioned the future of computing where the giants of silicone valley foresaw that all data and software would be in a *master computer* (Big Bro.) and that people would have a receiver terminal type of unit in which they could rent different levels of access to data and software all stored and monitored by big bro super computer in the sky - no personal file system , applications or personal content storage allowed.
 
If I recall 25 years ago or thereabouts there was a documentary that questioned the future of computing where the giants of silicone valley foresaw that all data and software would be in a *master computer* (Big Bro.) and that people would have a receiver terminal type of unit in which they could rent different levels of access to data and software all stored and monitored by big bro super computer in the sky - no personal file system , applications or personal content storage allowed.
There will always be personal private storage otherwise the industry would lose a lot of money. Cloud computing will be a universal reality but only once the public's trust has been won and clickbait sites stop scaring people with stories that Bill Gates wants to know all your details and give it to the cops. Your Facebook friends know more about you than the government ever will.
 
... Instead of remembering the bomb sign that appeared on the screen every two days, they only remember it happening a few times ever. ...
And I wonder if they remember that the lack of memory protection meant that an app crash often required a system reboot - the crashed app could have corrupted system memory or memory in other apps.
 
And I wonder if they remember that the lack of memory protection meant that an app crash often required a system reboot - the crashed app could have corrupted system memory or memory in other apps.

I remember in the late 90s going on some forum and very ardent Mac fans argued that cooperative multitasking was better than preemptive multitasking. They had all sorts of charts to "prove" their hypothesis. Paul Thurrot loved trolling them for a laugh. One year later Steve Jobs showed off OSX for the first time and spoke about the benefits of preemptive multitasking and the new kernel. Those diehard fans never spoke about cooperative multitasking again.
 
I remember in the late 90s going on some forum and very ardent Mac fans argued that cooperative multitasking was better than preemptive multitasking. They had all sorts of charts to "prove" their hypothesis. Paul Thurrot loved trolling them for a laugh. One year later Steve Jobs showed off OSX for the first time and spoke about the benefits of preemptive multitasking and the new kernel. Those diehard fans never spoke about cooperative multitasking again.

Wild guess, those ardent Mac fans were probably a minority. In the 90s I was using both MacOS and Irix. I've always been a Mac user and always will be, but when I first heard about MacOS X, after they abandoned the much talked-about Copland plans, I immediately thought we would get the best of both worlds, in other words the user-friendliness of the MacOS coupled with the speed, stability and reliability of its Unix foundation.
 
Wild guess, those ardent Mac fans were probably a minority. In the 90s I was using both MacOS and Irix. I've always been a Mac user and always will be, but when I first heard about MacOS X, after they abandoned the much talked-about Copland plans, I immediately thought we would get the best of both worlds, in other words the user-friendliness of the MacOS coupled with the speed, stability and reliability of its Unix foundation.
And how did that turn out for you? ;)
 
That would be their choice, but whenever I see someone who is against activation I have to ask : if you were a software developer would you distribute your software without activation?


I look at it this way: if i am a paying customer, i have to deal with the hassles of product activation.
If i am not a paying customer and pirate it, i don't. This is another reason I like OS X as it is - it does not have product activation.

Not that I am advocating piracy, but you need to provide customers VALUE, not treat them like criminals and just plain cause inconvenience that a pirate will not face.

Software developers have been pursuing copy-protection schemes for over 30 years, and every single one has been broken so far. Stop wasting resources on it, and stop treating your customers like criminals.
 
There are signs of it. There have been rumours of ARM based Macs.

It's not just Cook's vision, or Bill Gates' Origami vision, or the Jobsian vision promoted in concept videos 25 years ago, or in Jetsons cartoons. All this is a vision going back to scifi writers and comics going back to the 1950s. If it happens then OSX becomes the niche OS (it kinda is already) that they can just give away or sell to a niche crowd.

Here's another thought : Metal on the desktop isn't actually intended for our AMD/Nvidia GPUs but instead it's really to prepare developers for gradual transition to desktop iOS-ARM.

Metal is just a graphics API to get better performance. It is platform agnostic, it just originated on mobile first because the GPUs there are weaker.

ARM based Macs will happen IF intel drops the ball with regards to power consumption vs. performance. At the moment, there is nothing available from ARM that comes anywhere close to Broadwell or Skylake in terms of performance per watt.

Also, moving to ARM would kill boot-camp, virtualisation of x86/x64 software, etc.

You can bet apple already have OS X running on ARM in the lab as a contingency plan, but i very very seriously doubt you'll see OS X moving to ARM in the near future because there simply aren't enough benefits to outweigh the drawbacks.
 
Cook did state in the last keynote that the ipad pro is the perfect representation of how Apple sees the future of PC.
I take it as a hint that MacOs days are numbered, and if so, it would be great if Apple released MacOs to the public domain when Apple iosifies all their harware.
A lot of the negative attitudes about iOSification remind me of when the Mac first appeared with its GUI and mouse, and PC users insisted that real work got done with DOS.

I'm not always happy about the bumpy ride, but the industry is in the midst of a paradigm shift to smaller and mobile and cloud. However, there's a symbiotic relationship between the technology and productivity - there's no reason to suspect that iOSification will ultimately be a negative thing.

Things that work will stick around, and things that don't tend to go away eventually. In the big scheme of things, it's just another evolutionary step in the march of technological progress.
 
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Comparing to Win 3.11 or 95 is irrelevant. We were talking about workstations. The Mac didn't have a workstation level OS, while Irix and NT did. Unfortunately the way people remember the classic OS and what it actually was like to use day to day are world's apart. Sure you could be productive with it, slowly and with a lot of hair pulling moments.

Most people who try to remember their computing and gaming experiences from 20 years ago or more tend to whitewash the crashes, the bugs and the downsides and instead mentally upgrade those experiences to something that more closely resembles modern computing. Instead of remembering the bomb sign that appeared on the screen every two days, they only remember it happening a few times ever. When they actually come face to face those old machines and software they realise their memories aren't reliable. It really was crap back then. In fact, it's impossible for anyone to remember a computing experience accurately. If you, I or anyone says they can they've fooled themselves. In the words of Richard Feynman 'The first rule is not to fool yourself, because you are the easiest person to fool!'

In my office at work at this very moment, I have two computers running Mac OS 9.2.2(B&W G3, along with a beige G3 upgraded to a G4). I also a computer running Irix 6.5(SGI Octane, along with a dead O2 that I'm trying to get working) and at any given time multiple computers running OS X-generally a Quad G5, a Mac Pro 1,1, and my MBP, but also sometimes other systems(both G3s can also boot into X).

I occasionally use the G3s for some proprietary applications I have that require the "classic" Mac OS in a real(not virtualized) environment and need a physical ADB port since they rely on HASPs for piracy prevention. I own the Macs, and also occasionally fart around on them-whether it's writing up a document in WP 3.5e and using Chemdraw 7(I'm a chemist) or taking a break for a few minutes to play Civ II :) .

I never really use the Octane but "babysit" it and can troubleshoot it when something goes wrong. I don't own it(University property) but occasionally other folks drop by to use Felix(NMR offline data processing) and some protein modeling software on it.

The OS X Macs are, of course, my main machines. I do most of my "work stuff" on the MP and use MBP more for personal stuff, but those aren't 100% defined roles(I own both systems personally). I use the Quad for some legacy software that is PPC only, and before I hauled the MP in it was my main work desktop. I still use it a fair bit just because I'm "comfortable" on it.

Despite nearing 20 years old(1998 ship date) Irix on the Octane is absolutely rock stable. The last time I turned it off was when I moved offices a month ago.

All the OS X systems are rock stable also. The MP was giving me occasional KPs that I tracked down to a dusty memory slot, but I don't think I've even turned it off since fixing that. BTW, it's somewhat "hacked" as it's running 10.9 despite not officially supporting anything newer than 10.7(an EFI-compatible flashed video card from MacVidCards plus Tiamo's 32bit EFI patch got me to 10.9).

As much as I love OS 9, comparing it to the contemporary Irix or to OS X-whether on PPC or Intel hardware-really does make realize a lot of the limitations of things like cooperative multi-tasking and not having protected memory. Yes, I can certainly multi-task in OS 9, but-as you said-until you compare it side by side with modern hardware you don't appreciate how bad it is. For running a single application, OS 9 is often perceived as being faster and more responsive than OS X on the same hardware. That is true, but if you're running something processor intensive in the background, you might as well forget getting anything else done. Heck, even copying a big file from a flash drive to the hard disk can grind the system to a halt until the copying operation is done. Most of us don't even think twice about doing something like this in OS X. Despite the fact that I can actually(lightly) browse the internet somewhat pleasantly if not doing anything else in OS 9 thanks to Classilla, I wouldn't dare do it if-for example-running a big calculation in Spartan both because Classilla will be so slow as to be unuseable and a bad script on a web page could cause a complete crash that would make me lose everything I'd done up to that point.

I should also mention that the B&W G3 is more or less stock other than an upgraded hard drive and more memory while the beige is heavily upgraded. It has a Sonnet 1ghz G4, 15K SCSI HDDs run off a factory UW SCSI card, a Radeon 7000, and a couple of other odds and ends added. It's much faster than the B&W, but also less stable under OS 9. In fact, it's so much so that I'm considering transitioning it back over to full time OS X use(it actually runs Tiger really well).

One last thing-there are a lot of good parallels to be drawn between OS 9 and the much hated Windows ME. Both came out around the same time, and represented the last evolution of their respective OS "type"-ME was the last version of Windows that was basically a GUI wrapper around DOS, while OS 9 was the last of the "classic" Mac OS. OS 9 seems to be remembered very fondly now, but on at least a couple of systems I've actually regressed to OS 8.6. It offers most of the same features and software support, but I've found it somewhat more stable on a lot of hardware than 9.2.2. Of course, on a lot of hardware, OS 9 or later is the only option(and in some cases you even need a version of OS 9 specific to particular hardware).
 
There will always be personal private storage otherwise the industry would lose a lot of money. Cloud computing will be a universal reality but only once the public's trust has been won and clickbait sites stop scaring people with stories that Bill Gates wants to know all your details and give it to the cops. Your Facebook friends know more about you than the government ever will.

Rather than conspiracy theories concerning privacy, in my mind cloud computing is more about monopoly- such as tier based cloud dependency such as storage, applications, databases, TV, etc. Thats where I think the ipad pro might be representative of, where all computing is done via the cloud, not a home based independent system.
 
This thread was created before El Cap went GM. I've been doing some exhaustive testing since then with large TIFF, RAW and PSD files.

From my testing, if you work with image files that weigh over 200MB in size, which is very common these days, El Cap is slow at some very essential file manager operations. We're talking between 3-5 times slower than Windows 10 in terms of viewing thumbnails, previewing images and opening them in included image viewers. I even have folders where thumbnails haven't been generated after two days on an SSD. Windows can generate a folder full of thumbnails within seconds with the same folders copied to an HDD. It can preview those images in Windows Photo Viewer in a second. El Cap takes the aforementioned 3-5 seconds to open a large image in Preview and even longer in the preview pane.

Photoshop performance is unaffected obviously but a speedy file manager is very important for people with deadlines.

Even though this discussion is based on an hypothesis, in reality El Cap is much slower than the promise and hype. I don't think anyone in heir right mind would install it on a PC. Apple has a long way to go because whatever El Cap can do Windows 10 can do equally as good or much better. Until Apple fixes this issue I'm finally going to use Windows for work and not just leisure time.
 
I have no idea if anyone really misses Mac System 9, but I am glad its limitations were scrapped for a real OS. Otherwise, I would stick with Windows forever(?).

Trust me, NOBODY misses Windows ME. I did support for a PC company and WinME was the worst OS Microsoft pushed out to the general public in at least a decade. I received a LOT of calls begging us to downgrade back to Windows 98. I always had to say no. The good news is that Windows XP came out, and other than screen resolution issues, XP solved a LOT of those ME issues and has been simply the better OS until Windows 7 out of the box.
 
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This thread was created before El Cap went GM. I've been doing some exhaustive testing since then with large TIFF, RAW and PSD files.

From my testing, if you work with image files that weigh over 200MB in size, which is very common these days, El Cap is slow at some very essential file manager operations. We're talking between 3-5 times slower than Windows 10 in terms of viewing thumbnails, previewing images and opening them in included image viewers. I even have folders where thumbnails haven't been generated after two days on an SSD. Windows can generate a folder full of thumbnails within seconds with the same folders copied to an HDD. It can preview those images in Windows Photo Viewer in a second. El Cap takes the aforementioned 3-5 seconds to open a large image in Preview and even longer in the preview pane.

Photoshop performance is unaffected obviously but a speedy file manager is very important for people with deadlines.

Even though this discussion is based on an hypothesis, in reality El Cap is much slower than the promise and hype. I don't think anyone in heir right mind would install it on a PC. Apple has a long way to go because whatever El Cap can do Windows 10 can do equally as good or much better. Until Apple fixes this issue I'm finally going to use Windows for work and not just leisure time.


Maybe El Capitan needs more RAM than Yosemite. . . . . or at least some bug fixes.
 
This thread was created before El Cap went GM. I've been doing some exhaustive testing since then with large TIFF, RAW and PSD files.

From my testing, if you work with image files that weigh over 200MB in size, which is very common these days, El Cap is slow at some very essential file manager operations. We're talking between 3-5 times slower than Windows 10 in terms of viewing thumbnails, previewing images and opening them in included image viewers. I even have folders where thumbnails haven't been generated after two days on an SSD. Windows can generate a folder full of thumbnails within seconds with the same folders copied to an HDD. It can preview those images in Windows Photo Viewer in a second. El Cap takes the aforementioned 3-5 seconds to open a large image in Preview and even longer in the preview pane.

Photoshop performance is unaffected obviously but a speedy file manager is very important for people with deadlines.

Even though this discussion is based on an hypothesis, in reality El Cap is much slower than the promise and hype. I don't think anyone in heir right mind would install it on a PC. Apple has a long way to go because whatever El Cap can do Windows 10 can do equally as good or much better. Until Apple fixes this issue I'm finally going to use Windows for work and not just leisure time.

MS did an outstanding job with Windows 10 but I don't know if I like it better than OS X. To me it's like choosing between two ugly women/men and saying this one is prettier the reality is they're both still ugly and you don't want your friends to see you with either.
 
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MS did an outstanding job with Windows 10 but I don't know if I like it better than OS X. To me it's like choosing between two ugly women/men and saying this one is prettier the reality is they're both still ugly and you don't want your friends to see you with either.

Haha funny....but what if one performs really well? ;)
 
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