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If the touchbar is so great, why isn't it featured on the iMac keyboard?
- Thread starter Mr West
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TouchBar... Like many, I like the concept, hate the implementation. First off, they need to raise it a few mm so it has the same height profile as another row of keys. Then they need to divide it into probably 4 segments, not just one giant bar. See the one thing that makes keyboards great is the tactile response and sensory nature. They’re not dynamic and we all know where the keys are and what they do. Apple did something here that Steve Jobs probably would have not done. The TouchBar generally requires the user to take their eyes away from their screen to interact with it.
All things considered, I’d like to see a row of standard function keys like most keyboards and have little OLED screens in the tops of each of them to make them app-configurable. Put an elongated button with touch functionality to the right that perhaps takes up the space for F13 thru F15 and incorporates the finger print reader at the end.
So far the most practical use I’ve found for the Touch Bar has been to display audio waveforms or video clip info and to drag my finger back and forth across it shuttle through my timeline or clip length.
And I’m still angry at Apple for deciding that their newer keyboards like the iPad keyboard cover and now the MBP don’t need a physical ESC key. WTF? Programmers and those who use apps like Excel all the time have been cursing this decision for some time now and Apple seems to not care. At least the MBP gives us the ESC key on the Touch Bar, although sometimes it’s not there when it should be. Glad it’s still there on the desktop keyboard, I’m almost surprised they didn’t nix it.
And yes, I’m aware that Ctrl + [ is the same as the ESC key and there are also ways to pull it up on screen on the iPad, that’s not the point. It’s a long-time, standard key that gets press A LOT in many usage scenarios. I will say that I’ve noticed Apple has done a great job phasing it out in their own Apps. Newer versions of iPhoto and now Photos and others from them don’t seem to recognize the key to do anything where they once did.
All things considered, I’d like to see a row of standard function keys like most keyboards and have little OLED screens in the tops of each of them to make them app-configurable. Put an elongated button with touch functionality to the right that perhaps takes up the space for F13 thru F15 and incorporates the finger print reader at the end.
So far the most practical use I’ve found for the Touch Bar has been to display audio waveforms or video clip info and to drag my finger back and forth across it shuttle through my timeline or clip length.
And I’m still angry at Apple for deciding that their newer keyboards like the iPad keyboard cover and now the MBP don’t need a physical ESC key. WTF? Programmers and those who use apps like Excel all the time have been cursing this decision for some time now and Apple seems to not care. At least the MBP gives us the ESC key on the Touch Bar, although sometimes it’s not there when it should be. Glad it’s still there on the desktop keyboard, I’m almost surprised they didn’t nix it.
And yes, I’m aware that Ctrl + [ is the same as the ESC key and there are also ways to pull it up on screen on the iPad, that’s not the point. It’s a long-time, standard key that gets press A LOT in many usage scenarios. I will say that I’ve noticed Apple has done a great job phasing it out in their own Apps. Newer versions of iPhoto and now Photos and others from them don’t seem to recognize the key to do anything where they once did.
mind you, the iPad Smart Keyboard is actually better than the keyboard on the touch bar MacBook Pro
it feels so good to type on and I never worried to break the thing. It has been working great since late 2015 till now on my 12.9. A great surprise.In contrary, the MacBook Pro keyboard failed on me within a year and the B key repeats itself half the time I press on it.
I agree on the iPad Smart Keyboard. Actually typing on it now and I use my iPad for the bulk of my email and a lot of web surfing, and other things. My iPad Pro gets used more than my MacBook Pro these days. I’ve put enough miles on mine since getting it when it first came out that I’m seeing noticeable wear to the cover fabric.
I have mixed feelings over my 15” 2016 TouchBar MBP. I like the thinner design vs. my 2012 MBP it replaced and the screen is great, wish it had more pixels like some of the competition. I find the track pad to be a little too large and well you have my thoughts on the TouchBar above. Battery life sucks, no matter how Apple wants to spin it. I like the keyboard, but the keys don’t need to be quite so large and they need an extra mm or two of travel. If they would have inset the iPad Smart Keyboard it would have been perfect. The Smart Keyboard is by far the more comfortable to type on. Never liked the keyboard on my 2012 MBP, actually do prefer the new 2016~current version better. But my previous 2011 MBP that I only kept for a year and the 2009 MBP I had before that had really nice keyboards. I understand they were thicker and all that. As much as I liked the keyboard feel on my old 2011 MBP, it was crap. I had to replace scissor mechanisms below two different keys on that keyboard within the first 6 months. Only kept it a year though, not because of issues like the keyboard, but because I jumped to the Retina screen when it was released the following year. My 2012 MBP, first gen retina, while not having my favorite MBP keyboard, was probably the best MBP I ever owned... Possibly the best laptop I ever owned. 100% problem free from day 1 and a great workhorse. Totally worn out by the time I replaced it, yet still ran like a champ.
I have mixed feelings over my 15” 2016 TouchBar MBP. I like the thinner design vs. my 2012 MBP it replaced and the screen is great, wish it had more pixels like some of the competition. I find the track pad to be a little too large and well you have my thoughts on the TouchBar above. Battery life sucks, no matter how Apple wants to spin it. I like the keyboard, but the keys don’t need to be quite so large and they need an extra mm or two of travel. If they would have inset the iPad Smart Keyboard it would have been perfect.
The Smart Keyboard is by far the more comfortable to type on. Never liked the keyboard on my 2012 MBP, actually do prefer the new 2016~current version better. But my previous 2011 MBP that I only kept for a year and the 2009 MBP I had before that had really nice keyboards. I understand they were thicker and all that. As much as I liked the keyboard feel on my old 2011 MBP, it was crap. I had to replace scissor mechanisms below two different keys on that keyboard within the first 6 months. Only kept it a year though, not because of issues like the keyboard, but because I jumped to the Retina screen when it was released the following year. My 2012 MBP, first gen retina, while not having my favorite MBP keyboard, was probably the best MBP I ever owned... Possibly the best laptop I ever owned. 100% problem free from day 1 and a great workhorse. Totally worn out by the time I replaced it, yet still ran like a champ.I think this has a lot to do with it. The secure enclave, touchid and device/computer needs to remain connected to function as they are currently designed because keys change on boots and hardware is checked.
I'm sure it can be done but they are likely holding off for FaceID in the Mac and then use a keyboard with a Touch Bar. Personally I think it is very cool however not very useful for me since I rarely look at the keyboard. On a MBP its a different story because shifting my eyes slightly isn't as distracting.
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To play devils advocate. It could be moving too much expense to the keyboard itself especially if the Touch Bar included Touch ID and the related hardware for Apple to make that security work. Likely a using a networking chip (W1/W2 or similar) using a proprietary protocol (like HAP) plus the hardware required to encrypt the TouchID to apples standards.
I think if enough people wanted it and Apple truly saw the need for it, they would offer a TouchBar version of the keyboard. As an option and at a higher cost. Overall reviews of the TouchBar have been pretty underwhelming. In owning and using mine for a bit over a year, I can say that it’s most definitely not the revolutionary experience Apple hoped it would be. And with current Bluetooth abilities, there’s no technical reason why a TouchBar couldn’t be incorporated.
Battery life being one. The second one being security. Having a touch sensor to open your computer from an external device might not be a good idea. Remember the thumbprint is secured in a chip in the mac. Having that away from the computer is a security risk. Also, Apple is moving away from touch ID to face ID. Which makes a lot more sense for a computer IMO. That being said I would lovean external touch bar keyboard.
Yep, especially since the unlock-via-Apple-Watch feature already works wirelessly and via Bluetooth, so there's no reason why it should be too much of a risk with Touch ID. Having a sufficiently encrypted Bluetooth connection when transferring sensible information is pretty standard nowadays.
The biggest issue I see right now is that the Touch Bar is a 2160x60 screen running at 60FPS, and everything this screen shows would need to be wirelessly transferred to the external keyboard in realtime (and without too much sacrifices in battery life, but I actually think that's the smaller issue as the Touch Bar is already much more energy-efficient than many people realize).
On an internal keyboard like on the MBPs, none of that is an issue, and on a wired external keyboard it most likely would be pretty straightforward aswell, but knowing Apple, they will only ever release an external keyboard with Touch Bar if they manage to do it wirelessly. And transferring all that data in realtime is a lot for a Bluetooth connection to handle. I haven't done the math but I could imagine that if we talk about raw data, that might exceed the boundaries of what Bluetooth can handle currently. We're talking about transferring an uncompressed 2160x60 screen 60 times per second – these are 129,600 pixels needed to be transferred, 60 times per second, or 7,776,000 pixels each second.
Now, all of that does not mean that an external keyboard with Touch Bar is never coming. First of all, Bluetooth 5.0 significantly increased the bandwidth for Bluetooth connection, which might significantly ease the difficulty of transferring all that data. In fact I wouldn't rule out that this is what Apple has been waiting for; we'll probably see BT 5.0 in all Macs from now on, but we just didn't have it when the TB debuted 2 years ago. (But it could mean that an external keyboard with TB will only support Macs from 2018 going forward, i.e. those with BT 5.0 and a T2 chip for Touch ID).
Secondly, the "2160x60 pixels 60 times per second" would in reality only be an upper boundary that almost never has to be reached. A lot of what the Touch Bar displays at any given time consists of black or the same shades of gray and white, which is perfect for image compression. Even more so, a lot of elements of the Touch Bar don't really change all that often, which is another great plus for compression. I'm no compression expert but this significantly shrinks down he data needed to be transferred at any given time.
Based on this, I think that thanks to Bluetooth 5.0 (and the T2 chip probably becoming standard across he Mac lineup from now on, which would allow for Touch ID on external keyboards), we have reached a point where an external keyboard with Touch Bar should very-well be in the realm of what is technically possible. Not without engineering efforts, but possible. If Apple really believes that replacing the function row with an interactive, contextual OLED strip with fingerprint sensor is the future and hasn't given up on it after all the backlash they received (and, let's be honest, it's Apple so they probably haven't given up on it), then I'm pretty sure we'll see an external keyboard with Touch Bar in the foreseeable future.
Because it's not long for this Earth. Whilst some MacBook Pro owners like it, it hasn't been a universal success. Whenever there is a redesign I'm sure this will taken out.