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If Windows had Mac sales and Mac sales had window sales,
- Thread starter Mr. MacBook
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People don't chose Mac's just to be different !! We chose mac's because of their hardware and software superiority 
And of course because PC's are crap.
FJ
And of course because PC's are crap.
FJ
How so? Social factors play a big part. Microsoft is perceived amongst the geek community as a controlling (and slightly sociopathic) behemoth., one the virus writers think it's "cool" to have a go at. You simply don't get that Fight The Man attitude amongst the UNIX/Linux community. Users of minority OSs want to expand the use of their system of choice, so they are more likely upon discovering a vulnerability to provide patched source code than try to exploit it.
Apple isn't quite in the same camp as the fully open-source OSs, but they do benefit quite massively from this being the culture.
And you know this how? Which survey have you taken or read or heard of that quantified the social factors that motivated virus writers.
Do you have even a sliver of evidence to support the notion that virus writers are geeks who think that their dirty business is "cool"?
Again, do you have even a microshred of evidence to support this assertion?
So minority OS users necessarily will do nothinig to hurt public perception of their favorite OS, while majority OS users want to reduce their favorite OS to minority status? Is that what you believe? Have you ever read any posts on this forum or other Mac-oriented sites? It seems to me that there are a lot of people who are highly critical of Apple and the Macintosh.
Your takeaway message is that MacOS X has no viruses, not because of superior design and not because a lot of criminals take advantage of the plethora of vulnerabilities in Windows, but because the MacOS X culture is more benevolent? Is this correct?
Say your prayers and go to sleep.
For the most part, Windows viruses are not written by Unix/Linux/Mac fanboys who can't stand Windows. Most viruses are written overseas by people who don't like the US and Capitalism in general. The reason for a large percentage of these attacks is to disrupt business and to cost corporations money. Do you not think that a successful Unix/Linux/Mac virus would accomplish this? It most certainly would! Then why do you not see such viruses for Unix/Linux/Mac when 80% of major web servers run one of these operating systems?
The idea that Unix/Linux/Mac are secure only because they have a smaller user base is rediculous. Find a reliable vector to propogate a destructive virus on one of these operating systems and someone out there will be willing to pay you big bucks for that information.
The idea that Unix/Linux/Mac are secure only because they have a smaller user base is rediculous. Find a reliable vector to propogate a destructive virus on one of these operating systems and someone out there will be willing to pay you big bucks for that information.
I would have bought Mac regardless of how popular it is.
I still use PC too so I have the best of both worlds.
I still use PC too so I have the best of both worlds.
I think my point is being missed here. I'm certainly not saying it's the UNIX guys writing viruses for Windows. I'm saying that anyone who becomes so knowledgeable on a UNIX platform that they are able to write an exploit for it tend to also develop a respect for the OS itself and its user community. This doesn't happen with Windows users to the same extent. Combine that with the history of Microsoft, which over the past 20 years has contained examples of the worst of capitalistic business practices, and many of those with adequate Windows knowledge see no problem whatsoever with damaging the company's reputation.
Yes, the number of people who could write a successful UNIX/Linux virus is much smaller, and yes it is far more challenging to do so, but the sense of community amongst minority OS users is a big contributing factor to why there are less viruses for them. Those who know how don't have any desire to do so.
Those who follow dynamicv's posts would know that he's a networking and security consultant with well over a decade of experience, that he attends numerous conferences and industry seminars a year on this sort of thing, and that he's conversed with white hat hackers and people from various camps within the Open Source community.
I'd say he's at least as qualified to defend his statements as you are to attack them. But... he's not really one to self-promote his qualifications, so I'll do it for him.
They are?
Do you have some examples of Apple suing because someone discovered a vulnerability in Mac OS X?I'm quoting Theo De Raadt there, and his comment was most likely made in the context of Apple's reaction to the Wifi exploit of some months ago, when people in the OSS community were rather touchy. My point (and Theo's) was about perception. An Apple that is perceived as "evil" will attract a lot more negative attention than one that is seen as a neutral or benign influence.They are?
Firstly, sorry for bumping an old thread.. I was searching for something else entirely and this caught my eye.
My opinion on this is that if everything stayed as it is now with the 2 OS's except for market share then quite simply, I don't believe Windows would exist!?!
It has so many flaws and quirks that it never would have gained the market share Apple has now. Let's face it, there is a reason why Apple has the market share it does. It's computers (mostly) work and their software is both elegant and efficient.
Windows a clunky system that works if you have the time to put into it and the know how to keep it ticking over. But the more you do with it, the less it works.. this is a complete turnaround to OS X. The more I add to OS X the better it works. I'm adding things to increase the functionality and add new resources.
If I try to do this on Windows, the very act of trying to improve the OS has a negative effect on other aspects of the system and the overall speed due to it's clunky back end.
So IMO, windows never would have gained the market share to begin with and would be in the realms of something like the Amiga OS rather than something like Linux. You would be paying for a lesser product that was essentially a fanatics OS. Things like gaming would not be what they are because it wouldn't be viable for games companies to go out of their way to port things to the Windows OS. Look at the state the Mac gaming industry has been through because of small market share.
Anyway.. Just my opinion!
My opinion on this is that if everything stayed as it is now with the 2 OS's except for market share then quite simply, I don't believe Windows would exist!?!
It has so many flaws and quirks that it never would have gained the market share Apple has now. Let's face it, there is a reason why Apple has the market share it does. It's computers (mostly) work and their software is both elegant and efficient.
Windows a clunky system that works if you have the time to put into it and the know how to keep it ticking over. But the more you do with it, the less it works.. this is a complete turnaround to OS X. The more I add to OS X the better it works. I'm adding things to increase the functionality and add new resources.
If I try to do this on Windows, the very act of trying to improve the OS has a negative effect on other aspects of the system and the overall speed due to it's clunky back end.
So IMO, windows never would have gained the market share to begin with and would be in the realms of something like the Amiga OS rather than something like Linux. You would be paying for a lesser product that was essentially a fanatics OS. Things like gaming would not be what they are because it wouldn't be viable for games companies to go out of their way to port things to the Windows OS. Look at the state the Mac gaming industry has been through because of small market share.
Anyway.. Just my opinion!
The situation is reversed with the iPod and you don't see many people switching to the Zune just to be different.
A. OSX would be in pretty poor shape and would be full of more security holes. It would not be nearly as nice. Hell OSX more than likely would not even exist it would be based on OS9.
Reason for this is M$ is so big it can not move as fast. It is a slow beast. Apple is small and able to adjust.
2nd the hardware/ software link would be broken apart as part of US/EU law. 2nd the computer industry would be years behind where it is today because apple would fight so hard not to open up so you might need to go back to OS8.
Windows would be more than likely a better and would work better because it is small there for able to adjust and break stuff easier.
Reason for this is M$ is so big it can not move as fast. It is a slow beast. Apple is small and able to adjust.
2nd the hardware/ software link would be broken apart as part of US/EU law. 2nd the computer industry would be years behind where it is today because apple would fight so hard not to open up so you might need to go back to OS8.
Windows would be more than likely a better and would work better because it is small there for able to adjust and break stuff easier.
