MP 7,1 I'm really trying to switch to Mac Studio from Mac Pro, but it's tough...

[ekwipt]

Someone should start making pretty enclosures/cabinets that can fit a Mac Studio and a bunch of accessories. And sell them for $1,500 with a nice profit.

Edit: and put wheels on it for only $100 extra.

xMac Studio - SONNETTECH

3U enclosure to install and secure one Mac Studio with optional PCIe card expansion in a standard 19-inch rack.

www.sonnettech.com

 

[mattspace]

Another thing to consider is that official support for the M2 Ultra Mac Pro will end only 1 year after the 2019 Mac Pro;

There’s one potential wrinkle in that prediction - Apple is still providing security fixes to iOS12 for devices that can’t run newer versions, like my ~2013 OG iPad Air. While iOS 12 has made it almost unusable in terms of performance, I suspect the feature load / capacity delta is wider for older devices. It might be that AS machines end up with a different support life to that of Intel.

 

[wallah]

Someone should start making pretty enclosures/cabinets that can fit a Mac Studio and a bunch of accessories. And sell them for $1,500 with a nice profit.

Edit: and put wheels on it for only $100 extra.

xMac Studio - SONNETTECH​

3U enclosure to install and secure one Mac Studio with optional PCIe card expansion in a standard 19-inch rack.
www.sonnettech.com

xMac Studio - SONNETTECH

3U enclosure to install and secure one Mac Studio with optional PCIe card expansion in a standard 19-inch rack.

www.sonnettech.com

Mac Pro killer, right here. Add and upgrade 3 PCIe cards (compatible with huge variety graphics cards) and 3 SSDs.

 

[MisterAndrew]

There’s one potential wrinkle in that prediction - Apple is still providing security fixes to iOS12 for devices that can’t run newer versions, like my ~2013 OG iPad Air. While iOS 12 has made it almost unusable in terms of performance, I suspect the feature load / capacity delta is wider for older devices. It might be that AS machines end up with a different support life to that of Intel.

That was an unusual fix for something really critical. Normal security updates ended in 2021.

 

[ninecows]

xMac Studio - SONNETTECH

3U enclosure to install and secure one Mac Studio with optional PCIe card expansion in a standard 19-inch rack.

www.sonnettech.com

Wauv… I even predicted the price point pretty well 😂

But they’re ugly. Really ugly.

 

[mattspace]

That was an unusual fix for something really critical. Normal security updates ended in 2021.

Right, but it still happened. I have to wonder if things like processor errata will be easier for Apple to patch down the road, when they own the whole problem, Vs. having to be reliant on Intel to care about patching older chips etc. Again, just an idle thought, but Apple could certainly play a longer support game for the M series machines, if or no other reason than to say "you get better long term support on an AS Mac."

 

[majus]

Someone should start making pretty enclosures/cabinets that can fit a Mac Studio and a bunch of accessories. And sell them for $1,500 with a nice profit.

Edit: and put wheels on it for only $100 extra.

It is already available for a lot less than $1,500 -- it is usually known as a Mac G5. Gut it, add in a few supports and put your Studio and peripherals inside. Lots of room in there.

 

[Longplays]

I really, really like the Mac Pro 7.1. (And going all the way back to the Powermac G5, I have a deep passion for these big "Macs" that sometimes can border on the unreasonable - but that's the Mac Pro for you!)

My workflow is basically video editing with Final Cut, using R3D raw - which is traditionally very GPU intensive and benefits from the W6800x Duo that's in my machine. I also rely on moderate hard drive space for backups and working, and I like them to be fast if I'm using it to edit or move around files.

In my opinion and after various real world tests, the Mac Studio with M2 Ultra finally gets close enough that I'd consider using it for my workflow. Sure, the 28 Core gets beat, but the W6800x Duo GPU is still on average a bit faster for R3D than the M2 Ultra, but it's pretty close now.

I am *never* getting rid of my 7.1 Intel Mac Pro - let me make that clear. I know that if I did, I would just be looking for one in 5 years to have around for "Nostalgia" - even if it's slower. That's the unreasonable side, I have fun with hardware. (I write for Pcworld and Macworld too - so I like tinkering with lots of hardware!)

At the same time, I like to use for my workflow the fastest technology that I can, even if the 7.1 Mac Pro sits idly by looking pretty.

The Mac Studio certainly feels fast in everyday use - just opening up browsers and things like that. Is it night and day vs the Mac Pro? No, the Mac Pro still feel fast too - it feels just slightly faster on the Studio, a minor benefit.

It's certainly quiet - and very small. Fits neatly on my desk, but I don't mind the Mac Pro size, and in fact, the sheer beauty of the design wins over any concerns I'd have with moving it around occasionally. (It's very heavy with the hardware inside)

Right now, here's what is *inside* the Mac Pro aside from the W6800x Duo:

1. Pegasus R4i 32TB raid 5 storage (Great for backups, fits neatly inside, mostly very quiet - but the occasional beep on startup is annoying for sure)

2. Sonnet NVME PCIE card with 8TB of Samsung EVOs in raid 0 - fast, silent, I use this for my main workflow alongside the Mac drive itself which is a 4TB

3. Sonnet PCIE card with 2x 4TB SSDs for more secondary storage in raid

4. Pegasus J2i hard drive caddy, with 2 more SSD drives for more storage

5. External OWC Thunderbolt 3 Bay with more storage space for redundant Time Machine/backups


So as you can see, a whole lot fits neatly into the Mac Pro, and I only have that 1 external backup raid that isn't necessary, but I like the redundancy.

In moving to the Mac Studio, I have to somehow manage all of this externally and see what I can reduce or duplicate.

1. Trying the OWC 4M2 NVME external enclosure - speeds are OK with 4 NVME at 2600MB/s, which is about half the speed of when the PCIE card is in the Mac Pro. The fan is super noisy though, so I have to modify it somehow with a more quiet fan or heatsinks.

2. Likewise, all that internal storage has to now go to more external drives which take up a lot more room, thunderbolt ports, power cables, then the single Mac Pro by far.

That neat little Mac Studio just turned into a 2013 Mac Pro with a lot of cables to external devices, negating the small size and quietness of the unit itself.


Oops, I think I just made the case for myself for the....*GASP*.... M2 Ultra Mac Pro? I could stuff everything back in there aside from the Pegasus R4i Raid, but I could add more PCIE cards and migrate that over to more SSDS or NVMEs..


Or maybe I just keep using the Intel Mac Pro because it's usually faster than the M2 Ultra for my workflow anyway, and live with safari opening up .001 seconds slower vs the M2 Ultra.

What a time to be alive! Your heart wants you to get the new Mac Pro or Studio, but your brain tells you "NO!".

I wish Apple made it easier by giving us irresistible new hardware that performed light years ahead of existing 7.1 capabilities, but alas, it's confusion time for most buyers.

Conclusion:


1.) If I never owned an Intel 7.1 Mac Pro, I'd consider the M2 Ultra Mac Pro because (To my brain speaking now) it would allow a neater, quieter, faster workflow setup with more integrated hardware. Plus it is a gorgeous piece of design that is unparalleled, this is now my heart speaking. While the $3k higher price is spicy, it can be somewhat justified with the PCIe slots and build quality for some.

2. If you don't need all that extra external stuff and can work with the Mac Studio and maybe like 1 external device, it is perfect and performance is a Mac Pro level.

3. If you REALLY want to prioritize saving money - the $3k difference from Mac Studio to Mac Pro is just the start of it. You'd be amazed at just how much more you can save by going to even a more basic Mac Studio, which still performs relatively close to the top end hardware now. Some of us are enthusiasts who take joy in having faster hardware, but it's not always the most logical decision with diminishing returns.

If you have a watt meter could you measure your

- 2019 Mac Pro Xeon with Radeon Pro W6800X Duo MPX Module
- 2019 Mac Pro Xeon without Radeon Pro W6800X Duo MPX Module
- 2023 Mac Studio M2 Ultra with PCIe enclosure
- 2023 Mac Studio M2 Ultra without PCIe enclosure
- 2023 Mac Pro M2 Ultra

I was looking up the price of your W6800X and it starts at $4.5k. If the M2 Ultra is able to be at par of a very near 2nd place in raw performance then that saves anyone who does not have that MPX Module $4.5k.

 

[Longplays]

Judging by how long Apple can take to update hardware, I would not plan anything future wise with the M3 or other updates. They could literally go 10 years and just leave this M2 Ultra Mac Pro as is without changing it, like they did for years with the 2013 Mac Pro.

It is very likely that when the Mac Studio is bumped up to M3 Ultra the Mac Pro will get it as well.

 

[Longplays]

Another thing to consider is that official support for the M2 Ultra Mac Pro will end only 1 year after the 2019 Mac Pro; the clock starts ticking when it’s replaced by the M3 version next year. So considering that, and the amount of money people have spent on their 7,1, there is zero reason to replace it yet if it does a good job for you. Except if you want to stay current you’ll need to buy a new machine in a few years regardless whether you currently have the 2019 or the 2023 Mac Pro (or a Studio).

2007-2016 Macs received 9+ years of support.

2017-2020 Macs received 8 years of support.

It is likely that Apple Silicon Mac s will get 9+ years of support.

So a 2023 Mac Pro M2 Ultra will receive its final Security Update by as late as 2033.

While the 2019 Mac Pro as early as 2027.

M3 Ultra/Extreme is likely to be out Q1 2025. That is 15 month from now.

 

[Matty_TypeR]

I dont believe M3 Ultra or extreme will be out in 15 months time, maybe 2 years. the Extreme version might not come out at all. Splicing 4 CPU+GPU's together at 3nm will not be easy, plus the link speed will not offer 4 x speed.

Nvidia Sli and AMD crossfire suffer badly once you go beyond 2 as the link speed does not offer great performance gains. 4X is even worse, unless apple can sort the link out which Nvidia and AMD could not, the $$$ spent would not offer 4 X performance.

I dont think Apple had great results with M2 Extreme, the reason it never got released, cost V gain was not worth it, plus the waste in wafers trying to achieve it. M3 ultra might show in 18 months if your lucky.

 

[rpmurray]

Why do I have this strange feeling that in five years Apple will still be selling this same Mac Studio Pro (AKA 2023 Mac Pro) for the same price as now, while the Mac Studio will have been upgraded to newer M chips.

 

[Longplays]

Why do I have this strange feeling that in five years Apple will still be selling this same Mac Studio Pro (AKA 2023 Mac Pro) for the same price as now, while the Mac Studio will have been upgraded to newer M chips.

Very unlikely unless newer Ultra chips sell better on the Studio than on the Pro. But if sales projections aligns with its positive trajectory then they will offer M3 Ultra and possibly an Extreme.

 

[Longplays]

I dont believe M3 Ultra or extreme will be out in 15 months time, maybe 2 years. the Extreme version might not come out at all. Splicing 4 CPU+GPU's together at 3nm will not be easy, plus the link speed will not offer 4 x speed.

M1 Ultra (Mar 2022) > M2 Ultra (Jun 2023) = 15 months

Nvidia Sli and AMD crossfire suffer badly once you go beyond 2 as the link speed does not offer great performance gains. 4X is even worse, unless apple can sort the link out which Nvidia and AMD could not, the $$$ spent would not offer 4 X performance.

Game support and driver support for SLI & Crossfire were poor. Apple's UlfraFusion skips that.

 

[Matty_TypeR]

Apples Ultrafusion still wasn't up to connecting 4 X M1's or M2's yet reliably for retail. So we shall see if they try again with M3 or ditch the Extreme concept. Will also be interesting to see what performance Apple ray tracing offer's as both NV and AMD take quite a hit implementing RT when used. By the time the M3 shows it hand both NV with the 5090 and RDN4 will have landed. So i hope apple are working hard to make a true Mac pro and not a studio Pro that looks like a Mac pro.

 

[mcnallym]

Why do I have this strange feeling that in five years Apple will still be selling this same Mac Studio Pro (AKA 2023 Mac Pro) for the same price as now, while the Mac Studio will have been upgraded to newer M chips.

Because once the R&D spent on the m3 Ultra, m4 ultra etc then changing the board to mount the m3 ultra etc not going to be that much.

 

[MisterAndrew]

2007-2016 Macs received 9+ years of support.

2017-2020 Macs received 8 years of support.

It is likely that Apple Silicon Mac s will get 9+ years of support.

So a 2023 Mac Pro M2 Ultra will receive its final Security Update by as late as 2033.

While the 2019 Mac Pro as early as 2027.

M3 Ultra/Extreme is likely to be out Q1 2025. That is 15 month from now.

Where are you getting these figures? They are added to the Vintage & Obsolete lists before that, so that is not correct. Some of them received longer support because Apple sold them for a number of years, but M2 Ultra Macs will be discontinued next year. You can’t count on more than 5 years of support after that, which is 1-2 years after the 2019 Mac Pro.

One of the reasons for Apple Silicon is so that Apple has more control over the obsolescence of their Macs.

 

[Longplays]

Where are you getting these figures? They are added to the Vintage & Obsolete lists before that, so that is not correct. Some of them received longer support because Apple sold them for a number of years, but M2 Ultra Macs will be discontinued next year. You can’t count on more than 5 years of support after that, which is 1-2 years after the 2019 Mac Pro.

One of the reasons for Apple Silicon is so that Apple has more control over the obsolescence of their Macs.

Macs By Maximum Supported Version of macOS/Mac OS X: EveryMac.com

Macs compatible with macOS Sequoia, Sonoma, Ventura, Monterey, Big Sur, Catalina and more. Macs by maximum compatible Mac OS X version.

everymac.com

These applies to Macs that matter to me

macOS versions that received a Software Update or Security Update in 2023

- 2023 macOS Sonoma (version 14) that likely ends in 2026
- 2022 macOS Ventura (version 13) that likely ends in 2025
- 2021 macOS Monterey (version 12) that likely ends in 2024
- 2020 macOS Big Sur (version 11) that likely ends in 2023

The 2005 Macs were the last to have any PowerPC chip. All received their final 2007 Mac OS X Leopard (version 10.5) Update in Aug 2009. So that's at most nearly 4 years.

​

macOS version	iMac	Macbook Pro	Macbook	iMac Pro	Mac mini	Macbook Air	Mac Pro	*Mac Studio	Final update	Latest update
2023 Sonoma	2019	2018	-	2017	2018	2018	2019	2022	2026	To Be Released
2022 Ventura	2017	2017	2017	2017	2018	2018	2019	2022	2025	May 2023
2021 Monterey	2015	2015	2016	2017	2014	2015	2013	-	2024	Jul 2023
2020 Big Sur	2014	2013	2015	2017	2014	2013	2013	-	2023	May 2023
2019 Catalina	2012	2012	2015	2017	2012	2012	2013	-	2022	Jul 2022
2018 Mojave	2012	2012	2015	2017	2012	2012	2013	-	2021	Jul 2021
2017 High Sierra	2009	2010	2009	2017	2010	2010	2010	-	2020	Nov 2020
2016 Sierra	2009	2010	2009	-	2010	2010	2010	-	2019	Sep 2019
2015 El Capitan	2007	2007	2008	-	2009	2008	2008	-	2018	Jul 2018
2014 Yosemite	2007	2007	2008	-	2009	2008	2008	-	2017	Jul 2017
2013 Mavericks	2007	2007	2008	-	2009	2008	2008	-	2016	Jul 2016
2012 Mountain Lion	2007	2007	2008	-	2009	2008	2008	-	2015	Aug 2015​

*All the above are referring to Intel Macs. The Mac Studio was included because someone will likely point out that I "excluded it" without thinking.

Macs with Xeon chips like the 2013 Mac Pro had 11 years of total support. The 2017 iMac Pro Xeon is likely to be supported until 2028.

Although I think all Intel Mac support will end by 2028 with 2025 macOS 16. This sadly includes 2019 Mac Pro.

Hopefully by 2028 the Mac Pro M5 Ultra/Extreme 1.4nm (A14) would have 1.5TB RAM. So the complaints would be reduced to just no swappable CPU, dGPU, eGPU, RAM & NVMe M.2 SSD.

 

[MisterAndrew]

Macs By Maximum Supported Version of macOS/Mac OS X: EveryMac.com

Macs compatible with macOS Sequoia, Sonoma, Ventura, Monterey, Big Sur, Catalina and more. Macs by maximum compatible Mac OS X version.

everymac.com

These applies to Macs that matter to me

macOS versions that received a Software Update or Security Update in 2023

- 2023 macOS Sonoma (version 14) that likely ends in 2026
- 2022 macOS Ventura (version 13) that likely ends in 2025
- 2021 macOS Monterey (version 12) that likely ends in 2024
- 2020 macOS Big Sur (version 11) that likely ends in 2023

The 2005 Macs were the last to have any PowerPC chip. All received their final 2007 Mac OS X Leopard (version 10.5) Update in Aug 2009. So that's at most nearly 4 years.

​

macOS version	iMac	Macbook Pro	Macbook	iMac Pro	Mac mini	Macbook Air	Mac Pro	*Mac Studio	Final update	Latest update
2023 Sonoma	2019	2018	-	2017	2018	2018	2019	2022	2026	To Be Released
2022 Ventura	2017	2017	2017	2017	2018	2018	2019	2022	2025	May 2023
2021 Monterey	2015	2015	2016	2017	2014	2015	2013	-	2024	Jul 2023
2020 Big Sur	2014	2013	2015	2017	2014	2013	2013	-	2023	May 2023
2019 Catalina	2012	2012	2015	2017	2012	2012	2013	-	2022	Jul 2022
2018 Mojave	2012	2012	2015	2017	2012	2012	2013	-	2021	Jul 2021
2017 High Sierra	2009	2010	2009	2017	2010	2010	2010	-	2020	Nov 2020
2016 Sierra	2009	2010	2009	-	2010	2010	2010	-	2019	Sep 2019
2015 El Capitan	2007	2007	2008	-	2009	2008	2008	-	2018	Jul 2018
2014 Yosemite	2007	2007	2008	-	2009	2008	2008	-	2017	Jul 2017
2013 Mavericks	2007	2007	2008	-	2009	2008	2008	-	2016	Jul 2016
2012 Mountain Lion	2007	2007	2008	-	2009	2008	2008	-	2015	Aug 2015​

*All the above are referring to Intel Macs. The Mac Studio was included because someone will likely point out that I "excluded it" without thinking.

Macs with Xeon chips like the 2013 Mac Pro had 11 years of total support. The 2017 iMac Pro Xeon is likely to be supported until 2028.

Although I think all Intel Mac support will end by 2028 with 2025 macOS 16. This sadly includes 2019 Mac Pro.

Hopefully by 2028 the Mac Pro M5 Ultra/Extreme 1.4nm (A14) would have 1.5TB RAM. So the complaints would be reduced to just no swappable CPU, dGPU, eGPU, RAM & NVMe M.2 SSD.

That’ll be cool if your predictions about future support turns out to be true, but my point is that I think it’s wrong to expect that. Also, it doesn’t really matter how long support will last for the M2 Ultra Mac Pro, or M3 Ultra, because you’ll want to replace it much sooner than that since it cannot be upgraded and will become outdated.

At least the 2019 Mac Pro will be able to stay current in GPU processing power 5+ years from now, even if it requires Windows or Linux.

 

[Longplays]

That’ll be cool if your predictions about future support turns out to be true, but my point is that I think it’s wrong to expect that.

All the macOS versions I listed above have the supported Macs on Apple's website. All those macOS versions have those historical number of years of support.

My speculation is below assuming Apple shortened non-Xeon Macs to 8 years & Xeon Macs to 8-11 years.

macOS Intel version	iMac	Macbook Pro	iMac Pro	Macbook Air	Mac Pro	Final update	Latest update
2025 macOS 16	2020	2020	?	2020	?	2028	To Be Released
2024 macOS 15	2019	2019	2017	2019	2019	2027	To Be Released

Optimistically Apple will drop Intel support by 2026 maOS 17. By 2030s only fringe hackintosh users would still use macOS 16.

Also, it doesn’t really matter how long support will last for the M2 Ultra Mac Pro, or M3 Ultra, because you’ll want to replace it much sooner than that since it cannot be upgraded and will become outdated.

At least the 2019 Mac Pro will be able to stay current in GPU processing power 5+ years from now, even if it requires Windows or Linux.

Apple expects Macs to be replaced every 4 years and Intel expects it to be 5-6 years.

Business people typically keep their machines longer to say a decade even if you cannot do swaps on CPUs, dGPUs, eGPU and RAM especially when the use case hardly changes.

 

[Boil]

Mac Pro killer, right here. Add and upgrade 3 PCIe cards (compatible with huge variety graphics cards) and 3 SSDs.

Three slots versus six slots...

Since both the Mac Studio & the Mac Pro are both Apple silicon based, neither can utilize any GPUs that may fit in their respective (Sonnet rackmount chassis versus Mac Pro) expansion slots...

Three SSDs (or two HDDs & one SSD) is also possible in the new Mac Pro with the kit from Sonnet...

And one would need some sort of rack enclosure to place the Sonnet xMac Studio Echo III chassis into...?

 

[chfilm]

Is there a good external pcie thunderbolt enclosure to put a sonnet 4x4 raid card into?

 

[mcnallym]

Is there a good external pcie thunderbolt enclosure to put a sonnet 4x4 raid card into?

Sonnet echo 3 desktop.

3 x full length full height PCIe slots.

 

[randy85]

I think if you've got all those storage cards and the cash to get the Mac Pro over the Studio, then it's not an awful idea. Sell it on just before the M3 drops and you've had a decent run with a nice tidy setup that tears through h265 footage.

 

[profdraper]

Nope.