I'm With Apple Facebook Group

[*LTD*]

It's all about the i-<device> OS. If this is true, there are people wanting Flash on their devices.

No, that simply means people happen to be visiting sites that require Flash and are being prompted to "Get the Flash Player to see this video." They don't actually *want* Flash, just access to whatever content the site has. The fact that it may or may not require Flash is incidental. Obviously, there's still a lot of Flash content out there. The transition to HTML5 isn't going to happen overnight, but on the bright side, consumers seem to care more about their iDevices more than this or that video site. That's Apple for ya.

Of course, if most of those requests are coming from porn sites, that's more a commentary on the user's issues rather than Apple's issues.

But 7 Million out of 75 million devices is not a whole lot, anyway. In fact, it's surprisingly encouraging for the non-Flash crowd.

Flash doesn't seem to be a factor (which is also what Adobe can't stand):

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...lay_international_ipad_launch_by_a_month.html

 

[roadbloc]

No, that simply means people happen to be visiting sites that require Flash and are being prompted to "Get the Flash Player to see this video." They don't actually *want* Flash, just access to whatever content the site has. The fact that it may or may not require Flash is incidental. Obviously, there's still a lot of Flash content out there. The transition to HTML5 isn't going to happen overnight, but on the bright side, consumers seem to care more about their iDevices more than this or that video site. That's Apple for ya.

Wrong. Plenty of people I know have avoided the i<devices> due to the lack of Flash. If it was incidental, no-one would care, and we would not be busy flaming each other on these forums about it.

Of course, if most of those requests are coming from porn sites, that's more a commentary on the user's issues rather than Apple's issues.

So what you are saying is that it is the user at blame for going on sites that need flash, not Apple's fault for not allowing it? Ha.

 

[belvdr]

Oh dear... This isn't working out is it?

I'm with Apple: http://www.facebook.com/pages/IM-WITH-APPLE/112286262133623?ref=mf
I'm with Adobe: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=info&ref=search&gid=113492765344092

Hardly scientific but not what you'd expect giving the mass hate for Adobe here.

Well, the groups have increased by:

Apple - 2 members
Adobe - 272 members

You'd think Apple would realize that consumers are the one hurting here. It's no different than if any vendor were to restrict components. I have no way of getting websites converted to non-Flash content.

I like Apple's closed system to a point, but I feel they've stepped across the line. If I find an app using Flash is subpar, then I ditch the app; I don't go blaming the manufacturer of the device.

 

[jaw04005]

You'd think Apple would realize that consumers are the one hurting here. It's no different than if any vendor were to restrict components. I have no way of getting websites converted to non-Flash content.

Yes, you do! You vote with your browser identification. If enough people using the iPhone/iPad go to a Web site that’s Flash-heavy, you better believe the webmaster will notice how many potential customers/readers/etc they’re locking out. And if they’re smart, they’ll make changes.

You can always e-mail the webmaster.

The worst offender is restaurant Web sites. Seriously, we don’t need fancy animated Web sites that take forever to load (on a Mac/PC browser). All anyone wants is your location, contact information and menu. A PDF will suffice. GAH.

I actually got a local restaurant in my town to change from Flash. They had no idea their Web site didn’t work on iPhones.

I like Apple's closed system to a point, but I feel they've stepped across the line. If I find an app using Flash is subpar, then I ditch the app; I don't go blaming the manufacturer of the device.

That’s because you’re a rational person that understands what’s involved with the App Store. The average user would contact AppleCare/iTunes Store support, complain and probably demand a refund.

 

[IntelliUser]

Anybody tell Steve Jobs to join the group?

 

[belvdr]

Yes, you do! You vote with your browser identification. If enough people using the iPhone/iPad go to a Web site that’s Flash-heavy, you better believe the webmaster will notice how many potential customers/readers/etc they’re locking out. And if they’re smart, they’ll make changes.

It's a catch 22. Should I buy the product then wait for the site to change? Should the site change so then I can have a product that functions where I want? They are not going to change without the traffic and I don't want to spend $500 (or more) to attempt to convince them.

You can always e-mail the webmaster.

Much better idea.

The worst offender is restaurant Web sites. Seriously, we don’t need fancy animated Web sites that take forever to load (on a Mac/PC browser). All anyone wants is your location, contact information and menu. A PDF will suffice. GAH.

I actually got a local restaurant in my town to change from Flash. They had no idea their Web site didn’t work on iPhones.

I'm not sure why everything is so heavy these days. I like things simple.

 

[*LTD*]

W
You'd think Apple would realize that consumers are the one hurting here.

Except they aren't, no matter how desperately Shantanu Narayen tries to make everyone believe that.

People are just buying more iPads. Yup. Consumers are so hurt they keep buying more Apple gear.

The average user will barely notice, and if they do they can't be bothered to care. Apple devices sell themselves, Flash or not. Apple will post their usual impressive numbers come the end of the quarter. All this worrying about Flash or cross-compiling is moot.

 

[maflynn]

actually they are hurting the consumers because they are providing a product that is incapable of accessing all of the websites that they can on their computer.

Given the fact that other computer makers have tablets in the pipeline, some of which have already stated that flash will run only shows the consumer that apple technology may not be a good fit.

 

[*LTD*]

actually they are hurting the consumers because they are providing a product that is incapable of accessing all of the websites that they can on their computer.

LOL

http://www.macnn.com/articles/10/04/14/cites.study.showing.21.percent.interest/

https://www.macrumors.com/2010/04/1...pple-delays-international-delivery-until-may/

https://www.macrumors.com/2010/04/1...as-successful-entry-for-television-streaming/

Flash is no longer a factor.

 

[maflynn]

It is to the consumer.

No matter how many links about the iPad you provide, it still does not take away the fact that the iPad fails to handle any sites that contain Flash and that detracts from the consumer's experience. Given that there will be competitors providing devices that can run flash only exacerbates the issue with apple.

Apple is coming out if this badly and while flash certainly does have its issues, people still want a device that can access web sites that are important to them.

I know you're blindly follow apple and are a uber-fanboi but not all of us are like that. We want a device that can actually access websites flash included.

 

[*LTD*]

It is to the consumer.

Not according to iPod Touch sales, iPhone sales, and now iPad sales.

Unless you're living in some alternate reality. Consumers and the industry at large are in a veritable iPad frenzy. Apple's already running away with this market and it's barely been a month.

No matter how many links about the iPad you provide, it still does not take away the fact that the iPad fails to handle any sites that contain Flash and that detracts from the consumer's experience.[/B]

Apparently, it isn't.

 

[belvdr]

Except they aren't, no matter how desperately Shantanu Narayen tries to make everyone believe that.

People are just buying more iPads. Yup. Consumers are so hurt they keep buying more Apple gear.

The average user will barely notice, and if they do they can't be bothered to care. Apple devices sell themselves, Flash or not. Apple will post their usual impressive numbers come the end of the quarter. All this worrying about Flash or cross-compiling is moot.

The iPad was just launched and people tend to follow the hype and/or latest cool device. That doesn't mean they will return to Apple again.

You think an average user won't see that icon that asks them to install Flash but can't? It's not a moot point. Apple may screw the customer once (shame on them). If they screw the customer again, that's the customer's fault.

My sister was excited to get one until I mentioned Flash and how it could potentially hinder her web browsing experience. She didn't buy the device because it's too much money for a device that doesn't deliver a full web browsing experience.

People may buy the first device, and if they have a failure with its functionality, they are likely not to return.

As for iPhone and iPod Touch, I'm not sure everyone expects that to browse without issue, considering it's small screen. Now along comes a 10-inch screen and expectations will change.

*LTD*, you say apparently it isn't detracting from the user experience. Where's your proof? I want concrete proof from an average consumer that is satisified with not being able to view all web content.

My proof is in my story above and from others (non-technical) at work that won't buy it either for the lack of Flash (not that any of us love Flash, but we deal with what is programmed). We cannot pickup the iPad and order something from Pizza Hut. That's pretty bad for a mobile device.

 

[*LTD*]

The iPad was just launched and people tend to follow the hype and/or latest cool device. That doesn't mean they will return to Apple again.

I think you know the answer to this as well as anyone else.

You think an average user won't see that icon that asks them to install Flash but can't? It's not a moot point. Apple may screw the customer once (shame on them). If they screw the customer again, that's the customer's fault.

My sister was excited to get one until I mentioned Flash and how it could potentially hinder her web browsing experience. She didn't buy the device because it's too much money for a device that doesn't deliver a full web browsing experience.

*LTD*, you say apparently it isn't detracting from the user experience. Where's your proof? I want concrete proof from an average consumer that is content with not being able to view all content.

Sales numbers. It's all in the sales numbers. Demand for the iPad is through the roof. People are throwing an absolute fit that they can't have one on time. Apple usually boasts about sales figures. They've got another thing to gloat about when it comes to the iPad.

Apple has a way of running away with markets and getting return customers. No problem with that. The iPad isn't only here to stay, it will dominate.

But hey, whatever your sister says.

 

[belvdr]

But hey, whatever your sister says.

Again you quote sales because that's all you have (which is obvious again because of the hype and no data). Once people get their hands on it and realize it's not a full OS and that you can't see all web content, they are going to wonder why they dropped at least $500 for something they could do on their iPod Touch or iPhone. People expect more from a device with a 10" screen than one with a 4".

It's not just what my sister says. I've got around 100 people at work who won't get it.

See, the difference is I have people who particularly blame the lack of Flash to a loss of sale. You, on the other hand, just say the same thing over and over and expect it to change things. There's a reason why you chose the username LTD. LTD is an abbreviation for "limited".

But hey, whatever you say.

 

[*LTD*]

Again you quote sales because that's all you have

That's all that matters. Reports and numbers for demand, sales, and customer satisfaction. Those are the only sure measures we have.

Not your sister, your buddies, and the other anecdotal flotsam you're throwing out. Though I'm sure your sister is very nice . . . and also very patient.

If there's no link, if it's unpublished, if it's limited to you, your relatives and your buddies, it's bull****.

 

[Consultant]

You're not getting Flash fans commenting. You're getting Adobe CS fans commenting, most of whom will be using PCs. That introduces a wrench into the gears . . . 90% PC share vs. 10% Mac share.

The problem is, half of Adobe customers are Mac users as of 2 years ago, and Apple has gained more Mac users since then.

 

[roadbloc]

I've got around 100 people at work who won't get it.

I know no one who will get it. Although I am considering getting one for my gran, becuase she's getting old and useless. And she has no idea how to use the £1000's worth of PC up in her office, which she cant even climb the stairs to get up to.
Relatives and Buddies is not BS. It's your over exaggerated links that is BS. But, hey, if it's on the Internet, it must be true.

 

[ChazUK]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)

Adobe: 8290 members as of now.
Apple: A cool 203.

In the words of Yazz, the only way is up, baby.

 

[*LTD*]

I know no one who will get it.
Relatives and Buddies is not BS. It's your over exaggerated links that is BS. But, hey, if it's on the Internet, it must be true.

Quarterly reports are true enough. Wait until the 20th to see the "exaggerated links" confirmed re the iPad. We already know Apple has sold hundreds of thousands of them.

Apple's reports, the surveys done yearly by research firms, which are only confirmed in following years, are not lies or gross exaggerations. They are the best measures we have for getting at the truth. Not my friends, my family, or the guy down the street.

You "know of no one" who will get the iPad. Yet we have thread after thread of people who got an iPad. In fact there are hundreds of thousands of people already who have gotten an iPad. So what does that do to your sampling of friends and relatives? Not very accurate, is it?

For instance, up until about six months ago, I knew of no one who had an iPhone or who was planning to get one. Yet Apple had already sold tens of millions of them.

"I have a friend who", "I don't know anyone who", "I think", etc . . . all that is anecdotal, and while interesting insofar as that information is, it's really the least useful information anyone can provide.

 

[roadbloc]

^ I have three letters in responce. U S A.

The United States may be Apple mad. Europe certainly isn't. So yeah, Apple may sell their i<device>'s to you guys and a few hundred thousand scattered across the rest of the globe, but how does that stand up against the whole Adobe and flash buissness? Apple may be booming in the US, but they are often regarded as a small and unimportatnt company here. Microsoft and Sony are the big sellers where I'm at. So just becuase they sell a lot, it doesn't mean that they will come out of this immature fight with Adobe unaffected.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

I just joined.... the Adobe one

Seriously, I don't understand why anyone would NOT want cross-platform compatibility for all these programs. If it's that obvious that a program wasn't written using XCode, and ergo written horribly (because every single native written program is written perfectly , then just make that program not able to multi-task. Problem solved.

 

[beg_ne]

We cannot pickup the iPad and order something from Pizza Hut. That's pretty bad for a mobile device.

Um, yes you can. There is an iPhone version of the site. There is also an app for that. http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pizza-hut/id321560858?mt=8

 

[hamlinspahn]

Unimportant?

^ I have three letters in responce. U S A.

The United States may be Apple mad. Europe certainly isn't. So yeah, Apple may sell their i<device>'s to you guys and a few hundred thousand scattered across the rest of the globe, but how does that stand up against the whole Adobe and flash buissness? Apple may be booming in the US, but they are often regarded as a small and unimportatnt company here. Microsoft and Sony are the big sellers where I'm at. So just becuase they sell a lot, it doesn't mean that they will come out of this immature fight with Adobe unaffected.

If you take a look at Apples SEC documents you will see that apple doesn't have the same percentage of market share in Europe as it does in the US but what is interesting is that each year for last 5 years Apple total number of units sold have increased by 50% avg each year in Europe so if you are a competitor with Apple is that type of an increase each year unimportant. Yes they are small in Europe if you think unimportant your fooling yourself. And I think like you that Apple will be affected by this spat with Adobe, just look at the evidence 10 million iPhones sold over a few years and 500000 iPads in a week, so it is obvious the market has spoken and Apple is running their company into the ground.

 

[belvdr]

If there's no link, if it's unpublished, if it's limited to you, your relatives and your buddies, it's bull****.

So a link makes it valid? Well, geez, let me throw it on a website and validate it. What a dumb way to ensure something is useful.

Also, it's not just limited to me. There are others around that are not happy with it either (and apparently several thousand on Facebook alone). Any information coming from you is worthless. It's just a repeat of whatever Apple deems necessary or useful. If Apple removed NFS capabilities, you'd be the first one on the bus to declare AFP as the way to go.

These people were potential immediate sales to Apple (and likely future sales of other devices), so I'd hardly push it aside as useless info.

Um, yes you can. There is an iPhone version of the site. There is also an app for that. http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pizza-hut/id321560858?mt=8

Well, look at that. I didn't know that. Thanks!

 

[beg_ne]

Well, look at that. I didn't know that. Thanks!

Actually I take half of that back. I tested in the iPad simulator and the web site goes the the standard flash using site at the moment. The free Pizza Hut app would work though.

I can imagine it's only a matter of time until there is an iPad optimized version of their site as well.