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kliph

macrumors newbie
Jul 8, 2022
9
1
I've read about people doing this with macBooks, but myself would be frightened to do so.
As the cpu is not soldered, it could be changed. But maybe the microcode is loaded at startup in cpu. As far as I know, Windows for example is upgrading microcode while starting the OS.
So maybe someone knows about Macs and the was they handle the microcode? Maybe the CPU is programmed with the new microcode at firmwareupgradetime, or each time at startup....
But I am a little glad to hear that it seems not to be Apple who is responsible for the lack of systempower but Intel. Nevertheless, this is a sad story...
Yes this is a very compelling angle for sure. Thanks for the info. It's hard to tell who's to blame. Probably a mix between the 2. Nevertheless, this new machine arrives today and it should statistically run as beautifully as my other iMac once setup.
This will definitely be the last intel Mac I own. They are fantastic machines when dialled in, this is the 1st big issue I've had with any mac I've owned for years, but it does cut deep when you start to realise they do basically just abandon models sooner than you'd think.

Still, I'd take this any day over dealing with a Windows machine and the endless list of pitfalls.

Truth be told, I've actually watercooled these iMacs, which makes them run at full capacity with insane improvements in performance.
Just AIO kits off Amazon modded to run dumb via DC power controllers at a fixed(and silent) speed.
I didn't mention this in the inital comments as i didn't want to blur the diagnosis. But it all runs off its own power supply and doesn't effect anything in the system negatively (tested for EMI, etc)
Anyway that's for another thread with pics I might upload soon.
But this does create a super capable water cooled mac all built into a screen, like they should've done from the get go.
And its through the development of these kits i made where i picked up in the logged analytics, on this mad CPU parasitic effect which seems to be Spectre in some form.
Worth the time and effort when I can get an iMac from 2015 to run as well as a machine 5 years younger and £2000 more, for about £100.
 

pwm86

macrumors member
Oct 23, 2016
60
76
Austria
Here I have:

machdep.cpu.microcode_version: 212

Model Name: iMac
Model Identifier: iMac17,1
Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Core i7
Processor Speed: 4 GHz
Number of Processors: 1
Total Number of Cores: 4
L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
L3 Cache: 8 MB
Hyper-Threading Technology: Enabled
Memory: 32 GB
System Firmware Version: 170.0.0.0.0
OS Loader Version: 540.120.3~6
SMC Version (system): 2.34f3


APPLE SSD SM0512G:
Capacity: 500,28 GB (500.277.790.720 bytes)
Model: APPLE SSD SM0512G
Revision: BXZ53A0Q
Serial Number: S2ZFNY0H906375
Native Command Queuing: Yes
Queue Depth: 32
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk0
Medium Type: Solid State
TRIM Support: Yes
Bay Name: SSD
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
SMART status: Verified


No glitches when working.
 

kliph

macrumors newbie
Jul 8, 2022
9
1
So the good machine is running microcode version 226 and the bad is running 240. Can I edit the BOOT ROM part this concerns?
So another quick update. I don't jave the machines infront of me, but without tii much detail:
Got another 2 iMacs with same spec except with the upgraded top tier 395x 4GB gpu that was available for the Late 2015 imac.
These had both unfortunately been updated to Monterey and Boot ROM had also unfortunately updated. But not updated fully with the very latest Monterey update, so BOOT ROM/os loader version, whatever they now call it in Monterey, is at 247.xx...rather than the latest 251.xx... I'd referenced previously.
So there was hope.

Long story short. Exact same problem.
There is no doubt in my mind now that these firmware updates are NERFing these machines.
Compared to my best iMac with same specs, 4.0ghz, 32gb, flash storage(apple ssd) but with only the m390 2gb gpu BUT running Catalina and much older EFI firmware/BOOT ROM.
These higher spec machines run far worse than my lower spec but older OS iMac.
And this can't be undone!! I've heard/read of removing the SMC/rom chips and reflashing them on external equipment and i think this would be the only option available to regain the performace these things clearly can output.
They must just have them run more cycles than necessary though some roundabout way to give that classic obsolete Apple effect.

It's frankly ****ing ridiculous and sad they do this kind of **** to this day.

So if anyone knows if this kind of reflashing is possible, please reach out!
 

kliph

macrumors newbie
Jul 8, 2022
9
1
Bump. There must be someone else who's noticed this by now?!
The affected iMac is useable but clearly outpaced by what should be the lower spec machine.
 

hagar

macrumors 68020
Jan 19, 2008
2,125
5,418
I have the same Late 2015 iMac and it's been annoyingly slow since upgrading to Big Sur. Now I'm on Monterey (the last supported OS) and it's still too slow because of the Fusion Drive. I'm looking into replacing both the HDD and SSD as the rest of the machine is still great.

The System Firmware Version is 499.40.2.0.0. Does that mean my machine is not limited by the issues described in this thread?
 

Brian33

macrumors 65816
Apr 30, 2008
1,472
372
USA (Virginia)
The System Firmware Version is 499.40.2.0.0. Does that mean my machine is not limited by the issues described in this thread?
This thread started out talking about the failure of some 27" Late 2015 iMacs to update their firmware when they should. It appears that the failure to update problem occurs only for those machines that came from Apple with only SSD storage (like mine). The problem does not seem to happen to those shipped with Fusion drives.

Since yours has a Fusion drive, your firmware has been updated. You're fine. Replacing the Fusion drive setup with solid-state storage should give you a nice performance boost. I'm still happy with mine (with 500GB Apple SSD) on Monterey (still running with old firmware).
 
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Jensie

macrumors newbie
Dec 15, 2022
1
2
Using the SATA drive worked flawlessly for me on my Late 2015 iMac 17,1 27"
Mine did not have a SATA drive so I ordered the cable and opened up the machine mounted the cable and attached an SSD drive with MacOS 12.6.1. on it.
My PCIe drive had 12.6.2 on it already and was languishing on the 170.0.0.0 firmware despite all the acrobatics with upgrading and attaching USB drives etc. Its an OWC Aura which they rightly advertise as not compatible (given the effort it takes to do this :) )
It really did not take long to take it apart the second time. Probably 30 minutes from start to finish (The second set of glue strips were clearly not the same quality)
After I put it together I booted up on the PCIexpress drive since that was the startup disk, changed the startup disk to the SATA drive (It just happened to have 12.6.1 on it, not a deliberate decision).
Once the SATA booted I figured I might as well just try and update to 12.6.2 from the update prompt and see what happened:
  1. It did the usual restart with the Apple logo and a progress bar first
  2. Then the "10 seconds of darkness" with the fan still running. It did not appear to powercycle
  3. Came back with the apple logo and progress bar for a bit
  4. Rebooted (I think it did because the speakers clicked indicating a power cycle)
  5. Did the logo again with the progress bar
  6. Rebooted again, speaker clicks
  7. Came back with the Apple logo, progress bar and now also the "x minutes remaining..." label
After this it showed "System Firmware Version: 499.40.2.0.0" on the SATA OS so I switched the startup disk back to the PCIe drive and rebooted and it showed the same. Woot woot!
Now I just hope it will stop crashing when waking up from standby :)

Hope this is helpful to someone.

Here is the original post I followed (except I did not remove the PCIe drive which others has also mentioned success with)
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...irmware-update-failures.2228324/post-29573032

Cheers from San Diego!
 

patient0

macrumors newbie
Jul 27, 2023
2
0
Switzerland
Hi,

I got an iMac 27 late-2015 with this issue. And read through this thread and over at eclecticlight.

Now that I want to give this iMac away I reinstalled it and was stuck with Internet Recovery on El Capitan. With an USB stick I was able to installed the lastest available (Monterey), so all good except the local Recovery not working.

Since I got time on my hand I was wondering: Is it possible to remove/blacklist the SSD/NVME drivers from the installation disk, in so to simulate the removal of the SSD without opening the iMac? Or to remove the block (if it can be modified in some *.plist file)?

And then install let's say Monterey onto an USB disk and check if the firmware gets updated?
 

Brian33

macrumors 65816
Apr 30, 2008
1,472
372
USA (Virginia)
Since I got time on my hand I was wondering: Is it possible to remove/blacklist the SSD/NVME drivers from the installation disk, in so to simulate the removal of the SSD without opening the iMac? Or to remove the block (if it can be modified in some *.plist file)?
I haven't heard of any software way to get the firmware updated. Anyway, IIRC it's not the removal of the SSD that allows the firmware update, it's the addition of a SATA device (either HDD or SATA SSD). I'm afraid if you really want the update, you'll have to open up the iMac. In my case, I've lived with the old firmware and all seems fine so far...! You don't really need the Recovery partition. You can always make a bootable installer and boot from that to run Disk Utility, Terminal, etc.
 
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patient0

macrumors newbie
Jul 27, 2023
2
0
Switzerland
I haven't heard of any software way to get the firmware updated. Anyway, IIRC it's not the removal of the SSD that allows the firmware update, it's the addition of a SATA device (either HDD or SATA SSD). I'm afraid if you really want the update, you'll have to open up the iMac. In my case, I've lived with the old firmware and all seems fine so far...! You don't really need the Recovery partition. You can always make a bootable installer and boot from that to run Disk Utility, Terminal, etc.
You're right, I also lived fine without it (never had to reinstall the iMac in the last 7.5 years) and I do work with bootable installers and SuperDuper Clones for year. Installed Developer Previews and Betas, never an issue.

I assumed that if there is no SATA drive and NVME disabled there would be nothing stopping the firmware update. But you're right I leave it as it is and just let the new owners know of the limitation.
 
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JDW

macrumors 6502
Jul 12, 2005
343
249
Japan
I have a late 2015 27" 5K iMac (iMac 17,1) with Apple 1TB internal SSD that is currently running macOS Monterey 12.7.6. I installed the SilentKnight app and discovered my EFI firmware is stuck at 170.0.0.0 and it says it should be 529.120.1.0.0. Others in this thread have suggested that there's no harm in running older firmware, but I disagree. Back when I updated the OS from High Sierra to Mojave, my internal SD card slot stopped reading 128GB and 256GB SD cards, although smaller cards continued to work. Even after updating to macOS Monterey, the SD card issues continue. I cannot say if newer firmware would resolve that, but I cannot help but believe it just might. Even so, there's no way I am going to open this hard-to-open Mac to do what others have done to upgrade the firmware. And then we have another fellow in the latter part of this thread who claims newer firmware comes with a performance hit!

While Googling this issue, I found this tool:


Is the Boot ROM something different from EFI? It mentions the iMac 17,1 is compatible. Has anyone tried it?
 
Last edited:

rgmenke

macrumors member
Jun 22, 2020
93
49
I have a late 2015 27" 5K iMac (iMac 17,1) with Apple 1TB internal SSD that is currently running macOS Monterey 12.7.6. I installed the SilentKnight app and discovered my EFI firmware is stuck at 170.0.0.0 and it says it should be 529.120.1.0.0. Others in this thread have suggested that there's no harm in running older firmware, but I disagree. Back when I updated the OS from High Sierra to Mojave, my internal SD card slot stopped reading 128GB and 256GB SD cards, although smaller cards continued to work. Even after updating to macOS Monterey, the SD card issues continue. I cannot say if newer firmware would resolve that, but I cannot help but believe it just might. Even so, there's no way I am going to open this hard-to-open Mac to do what others have done to upgrade the firmware. And then we have another fellow in the latter part of this thread who claims newer firmware comes with a performance hit!

While Googling this issue, I found this tool:


Is the Boot ROM something different from EFI? It mentions the iMac 17,1 is compatible. Has anyone tried it?
I didn't have any issues once my firmware was upgraded. In fact, it seemed to run better. Another thing, remote recovery worked again which was very important!
 

MilaM

macrumors 65816
Nov 7, 2017
1,201
2,681
I didn't have any issues once my firmware was upgraded. In fact, it seemed to run better. Another thing, remote recovery worked again which was very important!
Did you use the tool mentioned by user TDW to upgrade the firmware/bootrom? I'm not certain that both are the same.

I also have a iMac that is stuck on the old FW. I can't say though, that I noticed any grave issues. I'm running the latest supported OS for this Mac which is Ventura.
 

rgmenke

macrumors member
Jun 22, 2020
93
49
I opened up the iMac and installed a SATA drive. On your iMac, can you run internet recovery? I couldn't until I upgraded.
 

MilaM

macrumors 65816
Nov 7, 2017
1,201
2,681
I opened up the iMac and installed a SATA drive. On your iMac, can you run internet recovery? I couldn't until I upgraded.
Ok, thanks. I heard about the trick where you install a SATA drive instead of the SSD. But it's too much effort for me, especially because the glue involved around the display. I'm also moving to a M2 mini soon, so it's not really worth it anymore.
 

JDW

macrumors 6502
Jul 12, 2005
343
249
Japan
Did you use the tool mentioned by user TDW to upgrade the firmware/bootrom? I'm not certain that both are the same.

I also have a iMac that is stuck on the old FW. I can't say though, that I noticed any grave issues. I'm running the latest supported OS for this Mac which is Ventura.
It's "JDW" and I haven't the faintest idea if "Boot ROM" = EFI, hence my previous post here to find out from you experts.

As such, I've not tried the the following software yet:

I posted about it here in hopes of hearing back from someone smarter than me who may have tried it. I look forward to hearing that feedback.

Thanks.
 
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