iMac 2013 died - nothing was backed up, join me on this fun adventure!

[Johnny Mickelman]

Here's my story, was running Catalina on an 2013 iMac and it became really sluggish responding, couldn't force quit anything so I tried all the usual stuff (restarting, disk utility, safe mode and then it started not even finding the OS (strikethrough logo)

I tried internet recovery mode, which seems to be using a Mountain Lion set of utilities and ran Disk Utility from there and when I saw the drives all listed in Red I thought I was onto something and could repair these and maybe be on my way..

Unfortunately I was informed on a different thread that this is because this old version of Disk Utility doesn't recognize the new architecture of the hard drive that OS started using differently after High Sierra (correct any of this if you know better) and so it's basically staring at something from the future and not knowing what to make of it.

I'd tried to do the 'fix' but I was just left with a stalled blue progress bar and a spinning wheel - I quit out of that and now when I start it I just get folder with a question mark.

Today I tried target disk mode using Thunderbolt connections from a 2019 MBP (type 3 Thndrblt) to the iMac (type 2 Thndrblt) but couldn't get it to mount at all even though the iMac was displaying a lightning icon..

Just to update this now with everything - I finally managed to install Catalina from a flash drive but at the price of deleting / losing reference to all of my previous data.

I've tried everything I know about, I've just tried 'Disk Drill' which is just some app off the internet but that couldn't even see anything that isn't viewable in the finder anyways.. so I'm wondering if it's all gone.

I got in touch with Drive Savers - they will take it in and look at it for free and you don't have to pay up unless they recover what you asked for but it's gonna be 3+ grand if they do find and recover stuff..

 

[BigBlur]

I assume Command-R didn’t work? That key combination would have tried booting into the built-in recovery system for Catalina.

What key combination were you using to get into Internet Recovery? There are two different ones. Perhaps try the second one if that’s the one you didn’t use.

• Use Shift-Option-Command-R during startup to be offered the macOS that came with your Mac, or the closest version still available.
• Use Option-Command-R during startup to be offered either the latest macOS that is compatible with your Mac, or in some cases the macOS that came with your Mac or the closest version still available.

Hopefully doing the ‘fix’ you did in Mountain Lion recovery mode didn’t make things worse. It sounds like it did something though since you’re now getting the question mark. Here’s what that means…

If your Mac starts up to a question mark - Apple Support

A folder with a flashing question mark means that your startup disk is no longer available or doesn't contain a working Mac operating system.

support.apple.com

 

[Johnny Mickelman]

So I detailed a lot of what I went thru on another thread but it wasn't that interesting.

Basically when I could start it in recovery mode it was a Mountain Lion RM and that literally couldn't even see a drive.

I managed to make a bootable version of Catalina on a flash drive and boot from that and ran disk utility from that and it seemed to do something - then the only option I had left was to reinstall Catalina

This seems to have worked but it's like a new computer and there is no trace of my original files.

That's about 400gb of stuff that was nowhere else - any ideas from this point?

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

So I detailed a lot of what I went thru on another thread but it wasn't that interesting.

Basically when I could start it in recovery mode it was a Mountain Lion RM and that literally couldn't even see a drive.

I managed to make a bootable version of Catalina on a flash drive and boot from that and ran disk utility from that and it seemed to do something - then the only option I had left was to reinstall Catalina

This seems to have worked but it's like a new computer and there is no trace of my original files.

That's about 400gb of stuff that was nowhere else - any ideas from this point?

- Unplug the iMac from power source
- Open the iMac.
- Take the HDD out
- Send it to a professional data recovery service with detailed information about what you have done to your Imac.
- Pray for the best outcome/answer from the service shop.

 

[Johnny Mickelman]

- Unplug the iMac from power source
- Open the iMac.
- Take the HDD out
- Send it to a professional data recovery service with detailed information about what you have done to your Imac.
- Pray for the best outcome/answer from the service shop.

Yeah that's about what I have left now in terms of options but if I had the money to attempt that I wouldn't be in this mess

 

[Fishrrman]

Have you learned why the concept of "backing up your data" might be a good idea, after all...?

Go forth from this day and learn, a sadder, but wiser, man.

 

[Johnny Mickelman]

Have you learned why the concept of "backing up your data" might be a good idea, after all...?

Go forth from this day and learn, a sadder, but wiser, man.

This was my backup, I had two other externals but one wasn't trustworthy and the other was older than this Mac and with much less space on it - the iMac was new to me and empty when I got it so it had the most empty space of anything I had and both of my externals had had a lot of use over the years so it had seemed like the safest option.

All I've learned is not having much money means when emergencies happen you get ****ed.

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

Yeah that's about what I have left now in terms of options but if I had the money to attempt that I wouldn't be in this mess

You shouldn't have messed up with Disk Utility in the first place. Nothing you can do by yourself at this moment to save your data.

 

[Johnny Mickelman]

Been using Disk Utility since 1997 - hitting 'fix' shouldn't mess things up.

Why did recovery mode run a version of disk utility that was 10 years out of date that couldn't even understand the file structure of my hard drive and then would eff it all up when I clicked a button literally called 'fix' - but thanks

Also, Internet Recovery Mode was not supposed to delete all my data

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Depending on if "Fix" actually did anything, you might still have an accessible drive in there. Before you send it to what is likely to be an expensive data recovery service, put it in an external enclosure and see if you can access your files with a more modern Mac (able to access APFS drives). Instead of your iMac dying perhaps the tech that accesses the drive are fried/frying. In an alternative enclosure, the drive itself might be fine. And/or a Disk Utility "fix" on a Mac running APFS might be able to repair it enough to recover your files.

However, all that offered, always have at least 2 copies and keep them up to date. Programs like Super Duper, Carbon Copy Cloner can be very handy. Use Apples own Time Machine if possible. With at least 1 other copy, you would have zero worries right now. Learn from this (stress) and don't gamble with your data in the future.

 

[Johnny Mickelman]

I did seem like Fix did a bunch but also it couldn't finish just got stuck in the middle. After using it when I tried to boot it just displayed a folder with a question mark on.

I've been in touch with a recovery place 'drive savers' in Novato, CA - looks like they want at least 3K

I downloaded a tool called 'Disk Drill' and ran it off of a flash drive but it couldn't see anything that I couldn't see in the Finder which makes me wonder if that 'fix' and the subsequent fresh install of Catalina has indeed destroyed everything..

 

[Johnny Mickelman]

I assume Command-R didn’t work? That key combination would have tried booting into the built-in recovery system for Catalina.

What key combination were you using to get into Internet Recovery? There are two different ones. Perhaps try the second one if that’s the one you didn’t use.

• Use Shift-Option-Command-R during startup to be offered the macOS that came with your Mac, or the closest version still available.
• Use Option-Command-R during startup to be offered either the latest macOS that is compatible with your Mac, or in some cases the macOS that came with your Mac or the closest version still available.

Hopefully doing the ‘fix’ you did in Mountain Lion recovery mode didn’t make things worse. It sounds like it did something though since you’re now getting the question mark. Here’s what that means…

If your Mac starts up to a question mark - Apple Support

A folder with a flashing question mark means that your startup disk is no longer available or doesn't contain a working Mac operating system.

support.apple.com

None of that worked - the in-built recovery was gone so I had to try it from the web - where I was offered Mountain Lion's disk utility (10 years old) which didn't have a clue what it was looking at and offered to 'fix' the drive to a workable condition which I think just screwed it up even further.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Yes, again, what if the iMac drive accessing hardware is the issue- not necessarily the drive. Then, Disk Utlity, all other Disk repair tools, target disk mode, etc will all have potential of failing. Think of it like this: think iMac is DEAD. You want to recover the files. If iMac is dead, getting the hard drive out of there and into a separate enclosure, separates it from dead/faulty hardware. Then, some other Mac may have access to it because you will be eliminating all possibilities from potential faulty/dying hardware in that iMac.

More simply: the hypothesis is what if the drive is still OK but the iMac has issues? Separating drive from iMac gives you one more opportunity to possibly recover files yourself.

At this point, simply trying this doesn't seem to have much downside. If the drive is dead/damaged/wiped, you'll soon know that for sure and can then do something else (including potentially putting a new drive in that iMac and possibly having a working iMac again). If drive is actually fine, new drive-accessing hardware may get you up to all of your files back for relatively little expense.

Bonus: afterwards, put a spare drive in that enclosure and you'll have a solid backup drive option going forward too.

 

[Johnny Mickelman]

That's probably my next step. It's either that or give up on it all.

To use a data recovery service I gotta get the drive out anyways so..

I've had two quotes - they might end up being around the same but the 2nd was up to $700 which is about doable

Anyone ever take the drive out of a 2013 iMac? - gonna hit YouTube

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I'd just take it to a local Apple product repair shop, explain that you want the drive pulled, put into an external enclosure to see if it is still accessible. If:

• so, you might then ask them to put a new hard drive in the iMac because that may be ALL of your problems with that iMac.
• not, you can then make a decision about data recovery services... or just move on. $700 could buy you a chunk of a brand new Mac (up to all of a basic Mac Mini). There's FOUR 21" iMac Refurbs in the store right now for < $1000. Refurb "latest" 24" and recent 27" are up around $1500-$1700 for various base configurations. Either would be a BIG jump from a 2013 iMac.

 

[Johnny Mickelman]

Yeah I looked up removing it on iFixit and that looks like a good way to break the screen and more..

Once the drive is out, if it is found to be faulty the iMac would be in a good state to put a replacement drive back in

$700 is worth it to get the data back but that's probably the low-end of their evaluation, the data is much more important as I already have a Mac BookPro (small screen though) and if the iMac is kaput there's a chance I can still use it as a 2nd display for that

 

[DeltaMac]

Remember that OP has a fusion drive. The hard drive is just one device out of two. There is a hard drive, and an SSD, working as a single storage drive through software. The hard drive is not too bad to remove, but the other device, the SSD card, requires removal of the logic board, much more involved that the hard drive.
If you decide to go ahead with data recovery, that service needs to know that you have a fusion drive.

 

[Johnny Mickelman]

Remember that OP has a fusion drive. The hard drive is just one device out of two. There is a hard drive, and an SSD, working as a single storage drive through software. The hard drive is not too bad to remove, but the other device, the SSD card, requires removal of the logic board, much more involved that the hard drive.
If you decide to go ahead with data recovery, that service needs to know that you have a fusion drive.

The lady at the data recovery place actually asked that but to be honest after looking at the iFixit post I'm not going to risk taking it apart anyways - but thanks I will make sure they know that

 

[Fishrrman]

My predictions:

1. You're probably not getting the data back, especially since it looks like you've both erased the existing data, reformatted the drive, and installed a new OS "over it".

1a. Even if there is -something- that is "recoverable", the cost is going to be so high that it's probably not worth it. You said you were quoted $3,000, right?
What was on the drive that is worth that much?

2. Take whatever $$$ you would have wasted in a failed effort to get the data back -- and put it towards a new Mac.

3. I know I said it already, but in the future learn something about the concept of "backing up". Because whatever you did in the past, you didn't do it right.

IF I HAD THE iMAC IN MY HANDS, this is what I'd do:
a. boot to internet recovery
b. install a brand new copy of the OS ONTO AN EXTERNAL DRIVE
c. boot the iMac from the external drive
d. NOW I'm in a good position to "go to work" on the internal drive, to see "what's there" and what might be "gotten off of it"...

 

[Johnny Mickelman]

1. I agree, I'm going to spend $150 on having it looked at just in case..
1. a) yup I know, it's not worth 3 grand because I can't spend that - they've quoted me up to $700 - that's about my limit

2. I already have another Mac but it has a tiny screen - maybe I can use the iMac as a display for that

3. Yeah I know - I didn't do anything to back things up - I just didn't have another drive which had the space on it - my bad

(a-d) I've done all those steps but there was no time when it was possible to 'see what was there' - the closest I came was target disk mode but it didn't work.

I tried Disk Drill - a consumer tool but that didn't see anything different to the Finder, so now it's the turn of the professionals

 

[Johnny Mickelman]

Ok, some news.

So I got the Mac back and a 2TB drive with everything the guy had recovered.

The recovery was in two steps. First of all I got to check what he'd recovered remotely. This was kinda interesting. First of all the guy was more of a PC dude but had worked with Macs and had been a Apple support person at one point.

He presented with a Recovered folder which split up into lots of Folders named with the file type (many of which were types I have never even used, from Applications which had never been on that computer so that was kind of bizarre)

When you get stuff back from a recovery like this, all of your usual criteria for being able to sort thru files has gone, the filenames are mostly completely generic and seemingly randomly generated sequences of numbers or they have been renamed based on something like the dimensions of a jpeg and so thousands can be basically indiscernible from each other.

Anyway more on that later...

I did find some stuff of mine and from that I thought yes let's go ahead and complete the recovery.

I told the guy that a lot of these filetypes made no sense, especially when there would be files from applications I'd never used and sometimes they were 100s of MB in size.. so, not nothing.

Also many files, usually ones that couldn't create a thumbnail wouldn't open and were corrupt. Whether these are any use whatsoever is debatable.

Anyways I told the guy all my concerns and listed a bunch of file extensions of stuff that I really would like to recover - project files from Logic, Davinci and Blender..

So he went away and it took about another 2 weeks and then some and then I got my computer and drive back in the Mail.

So I got back a lot of video (although not all, and especially not the most recent stuff), pictures and text docs.

All of this stuff is like having a 100 beads in a pile of wheat and having to sort thru it all and find different ways of separating the stuff you want from the stuff which is either garbage or corrupted.

He didn't manage to get back any back any project files whatsoever which is a huge pisser.

Also, the iMac seemed ok but then when I was sorting some of these files it had another crash again where I had to Relaunch the Finder and this resulted in a restart with the No Entry sign on startup, very worrying.

I restarted without the Drive in and it started up and then I plugged in the drive and ran Disk Utility on it - that took awhile but completed it's 'First Aid' process.

So I'm just writing this after all of that stuff. I'm nearly at the end of a few days of sorting.

I've got a lot of stuff back from that computer but quite a bit is duplicated elsewhere. Unfortunately the stuff I was really interested in, the newer stuff looks lost and all of the project files too it seems.

However, the guy did all of this for only $180 (including a 2TB drive) - the only other option I'd had quoted me $3000+ which was way out of my budget.

That's my story, and yes I will be using Time Machine from now on.

The biggest pisser of this whole story is that the reason why this got so out of hand was likely because the version of Disk Utility that was offered by Apple's 'Internet Recovery Mode' from Apple (my only option besides a drive with another bootable OS on it) was way out-of-date (2013) and reformatted the drive over the top of all the **** on there and scrambled it further.

Thanks Apple.

 

[BeatCrazy]

@Johnny Mickelman bad situation indeed, but it's really not Apple's fault. You've been using computers for 25+ years, everyone knows you keep a second copy of any important data. Computers can just go up in smoke (figuratively) at any time, so a back up is as essential as a keyboard.

 

[Honza1]

The biggest pisser of this whole story is that the reason why this got so out of hand was likely because the version of Disk Utility that was offered by Apple's 'Internet Recovery Mode' from Apple (my only option besides a drive with another bootable OS on it) was way out-of-date (2013) and reformatted the drive over the top of all the **** on there and scrambled it further.

Thanks Apple.

Internet recovery offers the original OSX/macOS system assigned to that type of computer. This causes lots of troubles specifically with DiskUtility but also with restoring backups. Basically, old systems may not be able to restore user data from backups created on new system. As you found out, DiskUtility can do more damage to disks if users try to use them.
Not sure why the original OSX/macOS is the choice, I would offer latest system compatible with the hardware, but it is a choice Apple made. There are arguments for both I can see.
To be fair, Apple assumes you have backup. Their standard solution to most computer troubles is "reformat, reinstall system, update to the latest version, restore user data from backup". Last step assumes there is backup.

 

[MajorFubar]

I feel for you, and it's like some people have to go through this process before they realise the importance of backing up. Your Mac has a built-in backup service called Time Machine that would have saved you all this. You said you can't afford it but the price you've so far spent on getting a pro to recover your data would have bought an external HDD of sufficient capacity several times over.

I do genuinely feel for you, but please let this be a lesson. $60 or less would have bought you a 2TB external hard drive suitable for using as a Time Machine. All your worries about data recovery would have been over.

 

[Johnny Mickelman]

@Johnny Mickelman bad situation indeed, but it's really not Apple's fault. You've been using computers for 25+ years, everyone knows you keep a second copy of any important data. Computers can just go up in smoke (figuratively) at any time, so a back up is as essential as a keyboard.

Thanks, I'll put on my helmet - I did address the whys earlier in the thread.