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iMac 27 Severe Eye Strain and Migraines (Display Design Flaw
- Thread starter pctomac99
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Actually I do have these and although they do help relax my eyes a bit, they haven't really helped a whole lot. Maybe the next best thing would be to get custom computer glasses made at the doctors.
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So the 27 inch panel is the same as his 23 inch panel and both of those would be the same as a 30 inch panel he might buy?
Glanced over this thread, I don't see any links to the Apple board(s) where this issue is being discussed.
People please, NathanMuir works for Apple
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Yes, at the beginning of my problems I did try increasing font size thinking maybe that was the issue but it did not help. It's not font size but the way the image is presented or projected on the panel.
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I'm sure the people who designed the panels know of this problem. I mean the design works ok, you have your LCD and the LED backlighting providing illumination, it works on paper but when it comes to real world scenario it's total fail. I heard here Apple is coming out with glare free displays. Maybe they will come out with displays that are easier on the eyes. I don't understand how graphic designers can use these and not experience above average eye strain.
I found the flux.app for mac and also shades app has helped me - especially flux
that and coloring the background in firefox prefs : content colors buttons
ps its fun to joke but painful conditions are not funny
gd lk
kj
is
that and coloring the background in firefox prefs : content colors buttons
ps its fun to joke but painful conditions are not funny
gd lk
kj
is
I've been a private pilot for several years. I feel very fortunate that my vision tests a perfect 20/20 year after year thus far. The eye doctor I see is a friend, therefore I don't use your basic optometrist.
My point is simply that this man is very knowledgeable and warns me about glossy screens in general. Even though I can use one for hours without noticeable eye strain, that's a misleading experience. It's a known fact that any amount of reflection, even if it doesn't bother you, is not good for your eyes.
Yet I'm sure people will bash this post since anything other than proclaiming Apple as flawless and miraculous, makes others very angry...
My point is simply that this man is very knowledgeable and warns me about glossy screens in general. Even though I can use one for hours without noticeable eye strain, that's a misleading experience. It's a known fact that any amount of reflection, even if it doesn't bother you, is not good for your eyes.
Yet I'm sure people will bash this post since anything other than proclaiming Apple as flawless and miraculous, makes others very angry...
It's a shame we have to resort to using third party app to fix the problem. That alone shows you this is a real issue. I do have shades installed on the imac but it did not help much as the real problem is with the panel design.
He may have worded it poorly, but it's not uncommon for staring at a really bright display to cause discomfort. I've had the same thing happen when viewing displays that are cranked up to maximum brightness. Many of them when new can hit 300-400cd/m2 whites. That is just really really bright. I don't see a reason to give him grief over this. That's why my suggestion was to attempt to control the lighting around it and dial down brightness. While it may look a little flatter, your eyes adjust to it.
But he specifically says that his issue is not the brightness but a supposed flaw in the construction of the monitor. Just read his post. Nobody here would disagree (I hope) that a too bright display can and will give you headaches. Its the 'flawed construction' part which I find not convincing.
It's worth a try.
Thankfully I haven't had any problems with the iMac display, but the combination of lighting and the display I use at work gives me a headache almost every day.
I often leave my iMac at 3/8 brightness, even during the day. The max brightness could burn your retinas out.
There are two things I noticed when I removed my glass screen.
First, not only are the obvious glare and reflections reduced, but you also reduce the strain of looking through an additional sheet of reflective glass. Even if you don't have distinctive sources of reflected light, there is still an overall luminance (for lack of a better word) of the glass screen by any ambient light. To my eyes, the display is much sharper looking without the glass cover.
Second, when I recalibrated my display with my i1, the difference without the glass cover was about 9-10 cd/m2. Which means that for any given luminance value you choose, the LED backlight will be at a lower setting without the glass cover.
First, not only are the obvious glare and reflections reduced, but you also reduce the strain of looking through an additional sheet of reflective glass. Even if you don't have distinctive sources of reflected light, there is still an overall luminance (for lack of a better word) of the glass screen by any ambient light. To my eyes, the display is much sharper looking without the glass cover.
Second, when I recalibrated my display with my i1, the difference without the glass cover was about 9-10 cd/m2. Which means that for any given luminance value you choose, the LED backlight will be at a lower setting without the glass cover.
They don't experience above average eye strain because their eyes are not like yours, i think calling the design a total fail is a bit over the top. it is a total fail for you and other people with as sensitive eyes/brain as you, but that's not everyone, maybe not even 1% :S
If you just can't stand the display of the iMac get a mac mini and a different brand LCD, i think nec still does a 27" with CCFL a bit more expensive than the Apple Thunderbolt Display tho, or you could try and get and old 30" Cinema Display, or hope they change something, maybe when they go OLED.
BTW do you experience the same with the new retina iPad? i don't find it particularly crisp or clear :S
I'll take a look at the NEC displays.
I have not seen an ipad 3 in person yet. I did have an ipad 2 for a while but I sold it to my sister. Funny my sister told me the other day the ipad 2 is starting to give her headaches. She hasn't had migraines for a few years now. Maybe all this is LED related?
I don't have an iMac but I have a glass display cintiq that catches the room light hanging above. I always get headaches when I can see this light reflection on the screen while trying to read through it. As soon as I reposition the screen so no reflections, my headache disappears. It has happened and been solved on many occasions all through the same method.
Eye strain, headache and more !!!
Hi,
I am just another user of a Mac led screen.
As I noticed all problems appeared when Apple went from CCFL to LED.
Due to their way of emitting light, on/off, at a too low frequency, with poor modulation (square) and in an intense blue spectrum, LED are aggressive to eyes and brains.
Some like us are (lucky!) to feel it, other aren't and will probably pay later. Our dear kids!!!
Problems reported and potential risk are:
eyes strain, motion sickness, focussing trouble, headache, retina damages, fatigue, macular degeneration, stress.
It is a serious health concern, unfortunately played down for commercial reason.
Let's keep hope though, that Apple will resolve the issue a give us a better screen.
Hi,
I am just another user of a Mac led screen.
As I noticed all problems appeared when Apple went from CCFL to LED.
Due to their way of emitting light, on/off, at a too low frequency, with poor modulation (square) and in an intense blue spectrum, LED are aggressive to eyes and brains.
Some like us are (lucky!) to feel it, other aren't and will probably pay later. Our dear kids!!!
Problems reported and potential risk are:
eyes strain, motion sickness, focussing trouble, headache, retina damages, fatigue, macular degeneration, stress.
It is a serious health concern, unfortunately played down for commercial reason.
Let's keep hope though, that Apple will resolve the issue a give us a better screen.
Years ago I was in the market for a home theater projector. At the time the technology choices were DLP or LCD. There were stories of some people experiencing eye strain and headaches with DLP. I was able to demo a DLP projector and after about 4 hours of watching I had a massive headache. I ended up purchasing an LCD, and have never had a problem with it. I don't believe DLP has a "design flaw", I just think I am incompatible with that particular technology. I understand the OP's frustration. They purchased a beautiful piece of equipment and it causes them pain, that is no fun. Luckily there are options. There are monitors that do not cause this person pain. Not every technology is going to be right for every person, that is just life.
I suffer from migraines from time to time.
I only wish the 27" iMac was at fault but it isn't.
If it is at fault for you, it's not a design flaw as you want to claim but more likely a condition that you have. Just because your vision is 20/20 doesn't mean you don't have some sensitivity to something about the display that brings on the migraines.
Hell it could even be font size causing an issue for you.
I only wish the 27" iMac was at fault but it isn't.
If it is at fault for you, it's not a design flaw as you want to claim but more likely a condition that you have. Just because your vision is 20/20 doesn't mean you don't have some sensitivity to something about the display that brings on the migraines.
Hell it could even be font size causing an issue for you.
Yup Been there done that. Drove me all the way to the eye doctor too who claimed she haad never seen better eyes... Flawless was her and her two colleagues exact words.
After some confusion and lack of understanding why these new LED displays were giving me grief yet my older LCD's were not and I found some scant info about how LED's cannot be dimmed they simply blink them on and off so fast to simulate dimming effects. Turns out people with exceptional vision are sensitive to this as mentioned earlier in this thread and the fix is simple.
MAX out brightness on the display. This stops the flickering which causes the issues.
Download this;
http://www.charcoaldesign.co.uk/shades
Do your color settings and calibrations WITH SHADES TURNED OFF! Then simply set the shade tone over it as per your taste.
Almost instantly you will notice relaxed eyes and within a month you wont even notice anymore. Ive been running LCD displays like this for over a year and all good now. no more eye stress and freaky headaches.
Hope this helps
After some confusion and lack of understanding why these new LED displays were giving me grief yet my older LCD's were not and I found some scant info about how LED's cannot be dimmed they simply blink them on and off so fast to simulate dimming effects. Turns out people with exceptional vision are sensitive to this as mentioned earlier in this thread and the fix is simple.
MAX out brightness on the display. This stops the flickering which causes the issues.
Download this;
http://www.charcoaldesign.co.uk/shades
Do your color settings and calibrations WITH SHADES TURNED OFF! Then simply set the shade tone over it as per your taste.
Almost instantly you will notice relaxed eyes and within a month you wont even notice anymore. Ive been running LCD displays like this for over a year and all good now. no more eye stress and freaky headaches.
Hope this helps
The eyes have it
Not so much a design flaw as a design compromise. Battery life is better with LED technology, but flicker frequency and flicker profile of the LED displays suits only about 98% of the population.
Just like if you're above the 98th percentile for height: every car and shower is going to be annoyingly under-sized. The top 2% of flicker-fusion-acuity users will feel pain using LED.
Simple science, people: http://jp.physoc.org/content/183/2/497.short
[Link is to the Journal of Human Physiology, a reputable source.]
BTW, I have a Mac Bok Air with LED and I am pretty much forced to use it as a glorified Mac Mini -- I use it plugged in to the external monitor and avoid the LED inbuilt at all costs. It is just too painful after 20-40 mins. When I'm travelling I have to lug around an old heavy Dell laptop because the monitor is LCD.
Not so much a design flaw as a design compromise. Battery life is better with LED technology, but flicker frequency and flicker profile of the LED displays suits only about 98% of the population.
Just like if you're above the 98th percentile for height: every car and shower is going to be annoyingly under-sized. The top 2% of flicker-fusion-acuity users will feel pain using LED.
Simple science, people: http://jp.physoc.org/content/183/2/497.short
[Link is to the Journal of Human Physiology, a reputable source.]
BTW, I have a Mac Bok Air with LED and I am pretty much forced to use it as a glorified Mac Mini -- I use it plugged in to the external monitor and avoid the LED inbuilt at all costs. It is just too painful after 20-40 mins. When I'm travelling I have to lug around an old heavy Dell laptop because the monitor is LCD.
Thanks for this thread it's answered a lot of questions I've had.
My eyes are as fine as glasses can make, but I suffer from ME and since I got my 27" iMac I've had a real problem with eye strain and headaches that I rarely had with the previous 24" non reflective white body iMac.
The ME just makes me more sensitive to focussing, glare and concentration issues with screens.
Just today I sat next to someone using an iPad (not sure which version) but it caused me a problem immediately.
I may have to try a different screen, though I'll try the full brightness + shades app first to see if that helps, but I think the focus issue you address first is the more likely culprit and I will end up having to let the iMac go.
Problem is, it takes time to know what screen suits and what doesn't.
Any more suggestions for alternative 27" screens to try?
My eyes are as fine as glasses can make, but I suffer from ME and since I got my 27" iMac I've had a real problem with eye strain and headaches that I rarely had with the previous 24" non reflective white body iMac.
The ME just makes me more sensitive to focussing, glare and concentration issues with screens.
Just today I sat next to someone using an iPad (not sure which version) but it caused me a problem immediately.
I may have to try a different screen, though I'll try the full brightness + shades app first to see if that helps, but I think the focus issue you address first is the more likely culprit and I will end up having to let the iMac go.
Problem is, it takes time to know what screen suits and what doesn't.
Any more suggestions for alternative 27" screens to try?
OP, you sound like someone that has issues with the flickering caused by certain panels. Do you get headaches in florescent lit rooms as well (those flicker quite noticeably to me)?
I'm not trying to attack you at all, but it seems like you might be in the minority of people that has strain issues when being exposed to certain flicker problems.
That's not a design issue, as all panels do flicker (though you can look into higher rates like a 120hz panel to see if it helps), its just unfortunate that you may be like my uncle, who has to take great care when buying monitors because many give him headaches.
I'm not trying to attack you at all, but it seems like you might be in the minority of people that has strain issues when being exposed to certain flicker problems.
That's not a design issue, as all panels do flicker (though you can look into higher rates like a 120hz panel to see if it helps), its just unfortunate that you may be like my uncle, who has to take great care when buying monitors because many give him headaches.
Dont understand flamewar here. It is obvious, op has some kond of sensitivity that majority do not have. It has nothing to do with health status of his eyes, he is simply "blessed" with sensitivity on sth. Specific to imac display - it is similar to sensitivity to plasma flockering - majority do not see it, but it exists and small percentage of people somply cant stand plasma tv (i am one of those). So, no reason to blame apple as there is no reason to bash op.
^ Exactly. I have a 61 plasma TV ( not that i watch it a lot im always working ) but I do see the plasma"flicker" if thats what you wish to call it. Id say its more of a switching weirdness but its more random across the field and I havent noticed on issue with regards to eye sensitivity but I do find its not as sharp overall as the LED LCD's out there. But those blacks sure are nice on plasma
^ Exactly. I have a 61 plasma TV ( not that i watch it a lot im always working ) but I do see the plasma"flicker" if thats what you wish to call it. Id say its more of a switching weirdness but its more random across the field and I havent noticed on issue with regards to eye sensitivity but I do find its not as sharp overall as the LED LCD's out there. But those blacks sure are nice on plasma
Yep, i meant flicker but writing on iphone and not reading it before hitting submit
i do feel flickering on every plasma display - big white images - flickering for me, my friends do not see that - othereise my eyes are 100 percent fine, but i am somply sensitive to sth with plasma technology - lcds and leds are ok for me. So op is having similar sensitivity issue with led or glass over led or sth like that and neither op nor apple is guilty.
Get your hands on a new display, connect it and use that for awhile. If you improve, it's the iMac display. If you don't improve, it's you or you have a problem with LCDs.
Return it if it's no better.
Are you sitting too close?
Also, try warming it up a bit with this free software.
http://stereopsis.com/flux/
If you improve with a different display, sell the iMac, get a mini and other display.
Return it if it's no better.
Are you sitting too close?
Also, try warming it up a bit with this free software.
http://stereopsis.com/flux/
If you improve with a different display, sell the iMac, get a mini and other display.