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Imac AMD Zen

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koyoot said:
Even if it will be as fast as Intel's, but offer twice the amount of cores?
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The problem is AMD doesn't limit their CPU for sustainability the way they should based on the laws of Thermodynamics, they like pushing boundaries. They probably measure their heat measurements at the core level and not the case level. It's only glue and metal keeping the processor in place and that thermal glue will not hold when it gets too hot. Running 1 core (2 threads) generates X amount of heat, when you bring in another core running at the same X heat, the case gets hotter than the cores. Now when you have 4 processing cores running at the same temperature, (I forget the equation) your case ends up running way hotter than a single core. Bad things happen to electronics with too much heat. Intel keeps it safe so you get more life out of the processor.
 
I would say unlikely for the next iteration. Mostly due to Apples optimization for Intel and FCPX.

IMO FCPX is one of Apples main benefits. But with video work cores count. If AMD pushes out a higher core CPU at a reasonable price it's not a stretch of the imagination for Apple to use it eventually. Actually it only makes sense. And if performance/price is right a welcome change for me.

Personally I don't care what brand CPU my Mac has. The reason I don't have a Mini is because they are only dual core and the reason I'll probably build a PC is because Apples next step for me is the Mac Pro. I need my iMac to get stuff done (namely video encoding), not have a Intel inside sticker on the box. It's frustrating my opposition to this point is generally just brand loyal and status oriented people. I guess that could be solved by Apple just saying it's an Intel CPU in the "about this Mac" menu but actually having an 8 core AMD....everyone wins! Lol

That said I would actually prefer a 6+ core Intel iMac but we know that's not happening. Hopefully Zen causes Intel to restructure their prices and we are eventually given that option.

Edit : btw that is assuming Zen is what it's rumored to be. I just want Apple to use what is best for what is otherwise a work station. If Zen sucks then to hell with it! Lol
 
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maflynn said:
I'd say the opposite, not so much the brand power of Intel, but the reputation of AMD. When you're seeing AMD being used in 300 dollar desktops, it cannot help but consider it as a second rate processor.
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You do have a brought horizon for a staff member wow. But it's probably all about image around here instead of performance, features and use ability.
 
Highly unlikely. I doubt Zen is going to beat Skylake in performance per watt especially on single threaded workloads.
 
Taz Mangus said:
Depends on the model year and configuration. For instance, my late 2015 is anything but a space heater. My 2011 iMac was a space heater.
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My late 2015 model runs cool and the heat management (thanks to the Skylake chip) keeps the temps fairly stable. I'm not pushing it terribly hard, lightroom and some PS work, but I'm amazed how its not spiking.

I read some reviews where the 2015 does a great job and they compared the 2014 vs the 2015 models, and showed the same exact tasks caused the 2014 to get hot
 
Zen doesn't have to be faster than Skylake, but just close enough to make Intel get off their high horse. How long have the mainstream chips been sitting at four cores? what exactly had the IPC increase been since Ivy Bridge?

Hopefully AMD will be able to stirr up the CPU market again. Everyone will benefit.
 
Ivy Bridge to Haswell IPC was 10% increase. Haswell/Broadwell IPC to Skylake was another 10%.

Overall increase from Ivy Bridge to Skylake is not linear 20%, but 15%.
 
varian55zx said:
AMD CPUs have always been considered third rate, maybe you aren't aware of this.

And frankly they are
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They had good solid CPUs in the early days and were kicking Intels a$$ before they came out with the Core line of chips, which blew away all the effort AMD had put into 64bits they had at the time. In fact Intel had to use that 64bit tech to get theirs up and running through their cross license agreement they have. Perhaps you are too young to even remember all that stuff like the good ship Itanic as Intel's version of 64bit computing became known as.
 
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MacUser2525 said:
They had good solid CPUs in the early days and were kicking Intels a$$ before they came out with the Core line of chips, which blew away all the effort AMD had put into 64bits they had at the time. In fact Intel had to use that 64bit tech to get theirs up and running through their cross license agreement they have. Perhaps you are too young to even remember all that stuff like the good ship Itanic as Intel's version of 64bit computing became known as.
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Do you also remember that Intel cheated their way into this lead by altering the X86 instruction set to perform better on their chips? AMD has made some unfortunate decisions (Bulldozer), but it's not entirely their fault.

Zen is the work of Jim Keller, the same guy that made the successful AMD64 uarch back in the day (as well as the Apple A5 IIRC), and his work seems to have paid off if the rumors and AMD's own showcasing are any indication. AMD is dead set on being competitive in the high performance market again.

Now, I agree that it all remains to be seen (the Bulldozer failure is still very fresh in our minds), but if the performance does match modern Intel uarch but at a lower price, I don't see why Apple wouldn't use them in at least some models (specifically, models with integrated graphics). After all, lower price is higher profit.

Either way is a win-win situation, because more competition means more effort by both companies. Seems like it already started, since Coffee Lake i7 will start at 6 cores instead of 4.
 
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Cloudsurfer said:
Do you also remember that Intel cheated their way into this lead by altering the X86 instruction set to perform better on their chips? AMD has made some unfortunate decisions (Bulldozer), but it's not entirely their fault.

Zen is the work of Jim Keller, the same guy that made the successful AMD64 uarch back in the day (as well as the Apple A5 IIRC), and his work seems to have paid off if the rumors and AMD's own showcasing are any indication. AMD is dead set on being competitive in the high performance market again.
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Oh yeah I remember it all along with help from their partner in crime MS and their similar dirty dealing the DOS ain't done till Lotus won't run as the meme was back then. Hopefully they do get some good chips out again then Intel just may have to chop that margin some and give a break on the price for a change.
 
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Cloudsurfer said:
Do you also remember that Intel cheated their way into this lead by altering the X86 instruction set to perform better on their chips? AMD has made some unfortunate decisions (Bulldozer), but it's not entirely their fault.

Zen is the work of Jim Keller, the same guy that made the successful AMD64 uarch back in the day (as well as the Apple A5 IIRC), and his work seems to have paid off if the rumors and AMD's own showcasing are any indication. AMD is dead set on being competitive in the high performance market again.

Now, I agree that it all remains to be seen (the Bulldozer failure is still very fresh in our minds), but if the performance does match modern Intel uarch but at a lower price, I don't see why Apple wouldn't use them in at least some models (specifically, models with integrated graphics). After all, lower price is higher profit.

Either way is a win-win situation, because more competition means more effort by both companies. Seems like it already started, since Coffee Lake i7 will start at 6 cores instead of 4.
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More pci-e lanes are needed / faster DMI link.
 
joema2 said:
What are you talking about?
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Some time ago there was debunked situation where Intel compiler when detected specific device ID in the CPUs was delibaretly lowering the scores, and executing the wrong code, for AMD. It was debunked when someone edited the AMD CPU to have the same device ID as Intel CPU, and it posted better scores after the editing.
 
koyoot said:
Some time ago there was debunked situation where Intel compiler when detected specific device ID in the CPUs was delibaretly lowering the scores, and executing the wrong code, for AMD. It was debunked when someone edited the AMD CPU to have the same device ID as Intel CPU, and it posted better scores after the editing.
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In this case Intel's compiler (not the many compilers from other vendors) used optimization which favored certain SSE instructions on Intel CPUs. This was openly documented -- by Intel (see notice at bottom): https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/use-intel-ipp-on-compatible-amd-processors

This is totally different from "altering the X86 instruction set", which is the complete set of all the instructions in machine code that can be recognized and executed by a CPU.

Even if the SSE compiler optimization is what Cloudsurfer really means, how could that one thing mean "Intel cheated their way into this lead". Apple and many other vendors don't even use Intel's compiler.
 
dylin said:
With the performance showing it beating intels current lineup. I would like to see zen macs on next release
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While an 8 core AMD would appear cool in the light of the recent news (still to be really verified by more independent sites), I'd be surprised if Apple would go for this. They appear conservative for such a move and there might be some specifics feats that they might be relying on... But let's see. Shouldn't take too long anymore.
 
I think it's probably way to risky for Apple to jump to first generation Zen chips. At Apple's scale quality control becomes an issue and the performance increases probably are not worth it.

My guess is the price tag to Apple isn't going to be much different (they are not paying anywhere near retail prices for Intel's chips) so it's hard to see what they have to gain versus the inherit risk. If they put these chips in it looks like a cheapskate move (unless there is massive performance gains or they take a huge chunk off the price) and if it crops up any issues (heat, faulty, longevity issues) it would seriously damage the iMac brand.

I'd say we may seen second or third generation Zen's but probably not first.
 
BlueTide said:
While an 8 core AMD would appear cool in the light of the recent news (still to be really verified by more independent sites), I'd be surprised if Apple would go for this. They appear conservative for such a move and there might be some specifics feats that they might be relying on... But let's see. Shouldn't take too long anymore.
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True. Something like quick sync would be hard to give up if AMD doesn't have a feature similar
 
It would make a lot of sense for the more expensive 27" ones but the smaller versions rely on the Intel integrated GPUs for which AMD doesn't have any analogues that use the Zen core right now. I would most definitely buy one if it had a performant 8-core AMD CPU and one of the new Vega GPUs.

Realistically, I doubt Apple would do that simply because they are a very greedy company and want to squeeze their supply chain to the max. Intel is also known for the monopolistic behavior for which they have been found guilty on multiple occasions and have had to pay huge fines. So given that I somehow doubt that Intel would let Apple go with AMD, they would literally give them the chips for free just to lock their competition out of the market. It is what they did the last time.
 
Novus John said:
It would make a lot of sense for the more expensive 27" ones but the smaller versions rely on the Intel integrated GPUs for which AMD doesn't have any analogues that use the Zen core right now. I would most definitely buy one if it had a performant 8-core AMD CPU and one of the new Vega GPUs.

Realistically, I doubt Apple would do that simply because they are a very greedy company and want to squeeze their supply chain to the max. Intel is also known for the monopolistic behavior for which they have been found guilty on multiple occasions and have had to pay huge fines. So given that I somehow doubt that Intel would let Apple go with AMD, they would literally give them the chips for free just to lock their competition out of the market. It is what they did the last time.
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Raven Ridge APUs will come in 2H of 2017. They will have 4C/8T+12 CU design for Mobile, up to 35W parts, and desktop will range from 35 to 95W for 4C/8T+16CU+HBM2 package.

It is most interesting hardware for upcoming years from AMD.
 
dylin said:
Can you see Apple putting AMD CPUs in the next refresh?
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There's a lot of valid reasons why they would stay with intel, but my gut feel is that they will go AMD because:

- If they were going intel then all the parts are already available; There was a mid and a late version of the imac in 2015 so it's not like they can't refresh quickly if they wanted to.
- Kaby Lake iisn't going to introduce that much gain over the current top end bto spec
- Practically zero rumors on an iMac replacement or leaks which, if due to a move to amd, goes hand in hand with the NDA code of silence which lifts on ryzen on March 2
- If the Ryzen part turns out to live up to the hype with performance equal or better to intel at half the price it's going to be a heck of a lot cheaper and pretty difficult for Apple to ignore.
 
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