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There is only one other concern I have. If the 100C temps have been reported and that is the maximum allowed by the chip, then I suspect it's being throttled. If that's the case, what's the point of having a faster chip if the thermal conditions cause it to be dialed back?

On the other hand, would Apple release a product that isn't able to sufficiently cool the process inside? I doubt it. I don't think the French article describes ambient conditions. Maybe it was very hot in that room or they had a defective unit. Who knows.

So - a bit on TJunctions. – First of all, regarding durability, when Intel sets a maximum allowed temperature, they set it with a "safe margin". This means that if you run at 100C all the time, nonestop, the CPU is still expected to last a "normal product lifetime". This is not to say it won't last longer at lower temperatures, because the electron pathways will wear down slower, but it's likely something else will fail before the CPU will anyway.

Second, the throttling concern. First off, even if the i7 does throttle under full load, it will still produce better results than the i5 at not-full load tasks. But based on experience with my current iMac (albeit a 2014 i7), it won't throttle significantly. My CPU is rated at 4GHz for all cores at once, and turbo at... What was it? 4.4? Anyway, during heavy CPU tasks, where all cores are active (including hyper threaded ones), it usually runs at around 4.1GHz, which is actually above spec. Blast the GPU at the same time though, and it'll run between 3,7 and 4.2 (swinging up and down). But it's hyper threaded and have more cache than the i5, so at the same frequency, it'll still outperform the i5.

And lastly, yes. Apple has made computers with insufficient cooling for the hardware inside. Their computers are built based around usage, not worst case scenarios. This means that if you blast the CPU, GPU and all parts of the system 100% at the same time, a workload that you're basically never going to run into under real circumstances - the cooling will be very insufficient, and will either result in severe throttling or in the worst case, the computer going to sleep on you or shutting down entirely to save the components (a nifty little feature that again increases reliability). But again, this is in very forced scenarios that won't happen naturally, and if they do, will only happen for a single second or so, which the cooling will handle.
 
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IIRC, my Core i7 870 (95 W TDP) didn't throttle with Handbrake h.264 encoding. It just got annoyingly loud.

However, the GPU would not be have any significant load in that context.
 
The order shipped today!

Sweet. I'll report back on the noise and heat once I have a chance to setup the device. I wanted to add to the discussion that the final argument for getting the i7 is better resale value. Someone has mentioned that and that was the final argument "for" that did it.
 
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The order shipped today!

Sweet. I'll report back on the noise and heat once I have a chance to setup the device. I wanted to add to the discussion that the final argument for getting the i7 is better resale value. Someone has mentioned that and that was the final argument "for" that did it.

Resale value is typically an argument in favor of the base model. In terms of actual dollars, you would lose the least on that in most cases.
 
Resale value is typically an argument in favor of the base model. In terms of actual dollars, you would lose the least on that in most cases.

The order shipped today!

Sweet. I'll report back on the noise and heat once I have a chance to setup the device. I wanted to add to the discussion that the final argument for getting the i7 is better resale value. Someone has mentioned that and that was the final argument "for" that did it.

Congrats, and Yup it's always a good idea to spend 300$ now to get 100$ more resale value, lol
 
You're absolutely right! I thought the i5-7600K was the best compromise between noise/temperature/power consumption and performance, but I'll probably go with the i5-7600 mid-tier model instead.
The drawbacks with the i5-7600K compared to the i5-7600 are just ridiculous when you consider the marginal single digit performance gain.

"The most mainstream CPU in our line-up is also the most economical and efficient. That's not just because of our sample's quality, either. Rather, the Core i5-7600’s frequency range is a lot closer to the processor’s sweet spot. This makes the quad-core model ideal for applications that put a premium on minimizing waste heat. Consider it for small form factor builds or other environments with limited cooling capacity."
- http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...7-7700k-i7-7700-i5-7600k-i5-7600,4870-11.html
I guess the mid-tier i5-7600 model is the best you can get when you leave the "Maximum Performance" need out of the equation.
Too bad the Radeon Pro 580 can't be combined with the i5-7600 though.


Solution — eGPU in 1 or 2 years
 
Talk to someone who has the machines.

I have the new i5 and I had the top tier i7 (it's getting swapped out due to a defect). The i5 has the fusion drive and the i7 had the 2TB fusion drive. The new machine will have the SSD and I did have a chance to compare that as well, along with an i5 with a 1TB SSD.

In my test I used my Nikon D810 and open 28 to 30 RAW files in photoshop. The SSD gave ZERO advantage, The 1TB Fusion drive was bit slower, but in no way would that impact workflow. The fastest machine was the i7 with the 2TB Fusion drive, NOT the i5 with the SSD.

Photography post work is PROCESSOR intensive, so the i7 makes a major leap over the i5 when editing and batch processing. I could pull, save and swap files fast from any of the drives. After the processor RAM is the next important item. 8 GB will work, 16 is better and 24 will be useful if you open you're dealing with even bigger files. I'm not positive how much extra HP (if any) I was getting from the 580 8GB graphics card.

Don't make the SSD a priority because you will be able to add it later and likely get a better one. You're stuck with your processor, so max that out.

I am now waiting for the i7 with 580 and 512 SSD, but it was a free upgrade after the 1st machine had a memory slot defect. The 2TB fusion was plenty fast. Some folks point out that the 2TB drive will slow as it eclipses the half-full mark, but that's STILL a lot more room than most will use.

In a perfect world get the i7. It's worth it. That's the brains of the system. The drive is the heart...and that can be replaced. The i7 is noticeably quicker with a lot of software.


R
 
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Solution — eGPU in 1 or 2 years

I finally ordered the i5 7600K and had a short time playing around with it: No heating or noise issues whatsoever. The temperature difference between 7600 vs 7600K is marginal. Many people in the forum have already stated that. So the 7600K is a great compromise between performance & heat/noise compared to the i7!

I don't do any heavy lifting on a regular basis, so the i5 fits great for me.
 
I am getting ready to order the new iMac.

Here's where I am struggling with a decision. The upgrade to i7 is actually reasonable. The question is whether or not the extra power is really noticeable in real life situations. I've seen a lot of discussion on the topic, but most talk about either synthetic tests or specific applications (video editing or coding).

So, here's the questions. What about everyday use? Let's say a situation where you have several spreadsheets open (some with Macros) and email, calendar, a browser with a few windows. Maybe occasional Photos editing?

How about working with graphics intensive presentations and sales sheets? Long reports with lots of multimedia?

It seems like the i5 will handle all those tasks smoothly. Will i7 be better? If so, will the difference be noticeable?

Thanks for your input.

January 2018 - So what did you end up getting?
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I think you answered your own question in the title of this thread. Average User = i5 all day long. The i7 is really for those who are NOT average users and in turn heavy power users who need hyper threading and higher clock speeds to render faster. Get the i5 for all day if your an average user but personally I would recommend the i7 since its the same 91W TDP on both the i5 and i7 so the cooler temperatures everyone is saying is not that noticeable.

I’m also on the fence, and used to be a power user, having worked in broadcast tv on shows like Judge Judy, Judge Joe, & an endless number of infomercials. I haven’t been able to work in over five years because of my TBI’s, but despite the brain injury, I still think like a tech geek.

I will not really be doing much video editing, certainly nothing with AE or PS, but I will be purchasing a drone that shoots in 4k, and will be using it as a tool to search for lost and dumped dogs in the desert. The camera will also shoot in RAW format, and I’ll be doing some aerial photography, so even though instinctively I want the best, especially since I’ll have no foreseeable income in the future unless my disability kicks in.
Having no further income is basically the only reason I’m interested in “future proofing,” but I have limited funds from my recent small accident settlement, and my MBP is a maxed out ‘08 that I bought used from an OCD graphic artist/editor, equipped with the best processors, video card, software, etc at the time.

I’m thinking of the i5 because I found one that’s $1,500 cheaper than most i7’s I’ve seen on Craigslist, and while my little brain is damaged, I’m still able to upgrade the RAM & drives myself.

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated!
 
This popped up to the top of the list and I just got mine so in case someone is still searching here's my input.

I have a late 2012 Mac Mini but I was having trouble with the monitor for adjusting photos to print. I decided to try the new 2017 27 inch iMac. I've had it for a week now.

Mac Mini late 2012 is i7 upgraded to 16gb RAM and 512gb SSD
iMac 2017 i7 with 8 gb (easy to upgrade) 512gb SSD (not upgradeable)

I have a Nikon D810. RAW files are around 50mb each. I have over 84,000 photos (about 20,000 D810) on an external 4TB drive via USB 3.

First, it is not noticeably faster than the Mac Mini. If it wasn't for the display I probably would just continue to use the Mac Mini.

SSD is a dramatic improvement in performance. I could not stand the lag on my Mac Mini which is why I upgraded it and got one with the new iMac. I tried an iMac a year ago with a Fusion drive and felt it was way too slow. 512gb is plenty of space if you use external drives. And faster to backup with Time Machine.

I do get a little lag using Lightroom on the iMac. I think adding memory may help that. It's not horrible just noticeable.

I also run VirtualBox to run Windows 7 (I had a lot of software). On the Mac Mini I divided the 16gb between Mac and Windows with 8gb each. Although I plan to upgrade, I divided the 8gb on the iMac with 4gb for each. I have not had any issues with memory on the iMac even when both are running. (Virtualbox runs at the same time, you don't reboot)

I feel I have the minimum iMac configuration especially for heavy work like Lightroom or photo editing. I don't have to wait for programs or files to load, at least anything noticeable.

Hope that helps.
 
January 2018 - So what did you end up getting?
[doublepost=1515790369][/doublepost]

I’m also on the fence, and used to be a power user, having worked in broadcast tv on shows like Judge Judy, Judge Joe, & an endless number of infomercials. I haven’t been able to work in over five years because of my TBI’s, but despite the brain injury, I still think like a tech geek.

I will not really be doing much video editing, certainly nothing with AE or PS, but I will be purchasing a drone that shoots in 4k, and will be using it as a tool to search for lost and dumped dogs in the desert. The camera will also shoot in RAW format, and I’ll be doing some aerial photography, so even though instinctively I want the best, especially since I’ll have no foreseeable income in the future unless my disability kicks in.
Having no further income is basically the only reason I’m interested in “future proofing,” but I have limited funds from my recent small accident settlement, and my MBP is a maxed out ‘08 that I bought used from an OCD graphic artist/editor, equipped with the best processors, video card, software, etc at the time.

I’m thinking of the i5 because I found one that’s $1,500 cheaper than most i7’s I’ve seen on Craigslist, and while my little brain is damaged, I’m still able to upgrade the RAM & drives myself.

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated!

I ended up getting i7 and I’m very happy with it. It’s definitely an overkill for most of the things I do. The i5 would have been probably fine in retrospect.
 
I ended up getting i7 and I’m very happy with it. It’s definitely an overkill for most of the things I do. The i5 would have been probably fine in retrospect.

Are you noticing any issue with overheating? I'm basically asking the same questions as you did back then - although I may just wait for the new models in the summer (?).
 
None. Probably get a way with an i3 and a beer.

I'd still get the i5, just ... because :)

But I do think the hyperthreading of the i7 is WAY overrated. It gives you 'maybe' a 20% speed boost in some very limited uses, and ramps up the heat and potentially more fan noise and wear and tear.

i5 for the WIN!!!
[doublepost=1520283311][/doublepost]
Core 2 Duo is fine for that.

LOL! yea, pretty much.

I recently bought a 2008 white MacBook on craigslist for 80 bucks, just for ***** and giggles, put a cheap 250gig ssd in it, and it runs all the basic computer tasks just fine.
[doublepost=1520283815][/doublepost]
And lastly, yes. Apple has made computers with insufficient cooling for the hardware inside. Their computers are built based around usage, not worst case scenarios. This means that if you blast the CPU, GPU and all parts of the system 100% at the same time, a workload that you're basically never going to run into under real circumstances - the cooling will be very insufficient, and will either result in severe throttling or in the worst case, the computer going to sleep on you or shutting down entirely to save the components (a nifty little feature that again increases reliability). But again, this is in very forced scenarios that won't happen naturally, and if they do, will only happen for a single second or so, which the cooling will handle.

So ... wait, you're saying get the i7, but at the same time arguing that almost no one ever (worst case scenarios - in your words) needs or uses that extra power?

Then you add if they do utilitize the full power of the i7 (that you say they should spend their hard earned money on) they'll run into some 'severe throttling' (again, your words).

Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but based on the view from here, you make no sense.
 
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Are you noticing any issue with overheating? I'm basically asking the same questions as you did back then - although I may just wait for the new models in the summer (?).

I bought the i7 the day it was released in June last year and used it through a wickedly hot summer here in western Japan. I've had no issues with overheating. I monitor system temperatures.

Going on 9 months with the machine now and I still rarely ever hear the fans spin above idle either.
 
So ... wait, you're saying get the i7, but at the same time arguing that almost no one ever (worst case scenarios - in your words) needs or uses that extra power?

Then you add if they do utilitize the full power of the i7 (that you say they should spend their hard earned money on) they'll run into some 'severe throttling' (again, your words).

Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but based on the view from here, you make no sense.

You did in fact read me wrong - Or perhaps I wrote me wrong ;)

I don't recommend that someone get the i7, unless they feel like they will properly use the extra performance. I am also not saying the i7 will overheat and throttle however. There's a difference between 100% taxing the CPU, and 100% taxing the system. In the latter scenario, throttling may happen, but you can push the CPU to its maximum without throttling. It's only if the entire CPU, GPU and memory subsystem are stressed at once, continuously, I would consider throttling an issue, and that's an extremely unlikely scenario. No matter how heavy a power user you are. I personally do programming, video editing, play games, etc. and it's just not a problem I run into. Can I create the issue via synthetic, purpose-made stress tests? Yes. Does it happen in actual usage under any circumstance, even if rendering a video, compiling code and gaming all at once? Never.

However, the fans will spin up a lot, at around 3500RPM
 
Are you noticing any issue with overheating? I'm basically asking the same questions as you did back then - although I may just wait for the new models in the summer (?).

No problems with overheating. The machine runs great. I love the performance and I am really happy with the choice to upgrade. As the saying goes, if you need it now -- buy it. If you can afford to wait a few months, wait. You'll get a newer machine.
 
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This argument is behind a fundamental truth.
i5 is faster, but when it comes to system load (CPU load average), i7 gets the double benefit.

i5 is for professionals, best at focusing one thing or two.
i7 is for production, can't be faster than i5 but can handle double workloads, so it offers to multitask apps better utilization than i5.

Conclusion, i5 is like a sports car, i7 is an SUV. Both have its benefit.
Would you want some speed and power? Or do you prefer more space and bigger wheels to climb the mountain to travel?

Xeon is like the Recreational vehicle. It designed for utilization; it is the slowest, but it has enough space to fit in kitchen and beds.

i5, i7, and Xeon.
They are so different color, can't say who the best until informed who you are.
 
Conclusion, i5 is like a sports car, i7 is an SUV. Both have its benefit.
Would you want some speed and power? Or do you prefer more space and bigger wheels to climb the mountain to travel?

Xeon is like the Recreational vehicle. It designed for utilization; it is the slowest, but it has enough space to fit in kitchen and beds.

Given that the marketing of automobiles is based on inculcating and appealing to various fantasies, this analogy seems appropriate.
 
This argument is behind a fundamental truth.
i5 is faster, but when it comes to system load (CPU load average), i7 gets the double benefit.

i5 is for professionals, best at focusing one thing or two.
i7 is for production, can't be faster than i5 but can handle double workloads, so it offers to multitask apps better utilization than i5.

Conclusion, i5 is like a sports car, i7 is an SUV. Both have its benefit.
Would you want some speed and power? Or do you prefer more space and bigger wheels to climb the mountain to travel?

Xeon is like the Recreational vehicle. It designed for utilization; it is the slowest, but it has enough space to fit in kitchen and beds.

i5, i7, and Xeon.
They are so different color, can't say who the best until informed who you are.

This post doesn’t make much sense.

The i5 is not faster than the i7, it’s slower both for single threaded and multi threaded applications. It generates less heat and is less expensive which is good but in no way makes it comparable to a sports car.

The Xeon is not the slowest either, it’s about as fast as the i5 but a lot better at multi threaded applications.
 
This post doesn’t make much sense.

The i5 is not faster than the i7, it’s slower both for single threaded and multi threaded applications. It generates less heat and is less expensive which is good but in no way makes it comparable to a sports car.

The Xeon is not the slowest either, it’s about as fast as the i5 but a lot better at multi threaded applications.

You should not confuse people here with your "thread" math amidst only from "software." as also software all depends on how it developed.

I hate the statement here coming from the "numbers" from intel comparison chart. With more cores, more cache and more GHz. So i7 wins. That's such an elementary class argument.

i5 and i7 operate differently, and i7's advantage is hyperthreading.

For example, you usually won’t gain much by choosing a Core i7 chip over a Core i5, as Hyper-Threading makes little difference in most games. Even complicated titles such as Battlefield 4 only really take advantage of four cores, so the extra four virtual cores Hyper-Threading provides won’t be much use. There are exceptions, though. The latest Total War games appear to benefit from a Core i7’s power due to the sheer number of units interacting with each other on the battlefield.

even in music production, i5 highly recommended over i7 because
i7 won't deliver fast enough to handle the top VST like Serum in real time.

As RHCE, our environment is different, Linux is all about software and threads, I will not choose i5 whatsoever in our production even i7 isn't enough compared to Xeons.

Comparing i5 vs. i7 is such a childish argument, it should be which is the best in i5 or i7.
 
You should not confuse people here with your "thread" math amidst only from "software." as also software all depends on how it developed.

I hate the statement here coming from the "numbers" from intel comparison chart. With more cores, more cache and more GHz. So i7 wins. That's such an elementary class argument.

i5 and i7 operate differently, and i7's advantage is hyperthreading.

For example, you usually won’t gain much by choosing a Core i7 chip over a Core i5, as Hyper-Threading makes little difference in most games. Even complicated titles such as Battlefield 4 only really take advantage of four cores, so the extra four virtual cores Hyper-Threading provides won’t be much use. There are exceptions, though. The latest Total War games appear to benefit from a Core i7’s power due to the sheer number of units interacting with each other on the battlefield.

even in music production, i5 highly recommended over i7 because
i7 won't deliver fast enough to handle the top VST like Serum in real time.

As RHCE, our environment is different, Linux is all about software and threads, I will not choose i5 whatsoever in our production even i7 isn't enough compared to Xeons.

Comparing i5 vs. i7 is such a childish argument, it should be which is the best in i5 or i7.
For music - Logic Pro X - the testing here suggests the i7-7700K does much better than the i5-7600K. However the problem with the i7 is that the fans rev up pretty quickly.
 
i think even in games section, an i5 is perfect...there are not so many games that use i7...in these days(where we have these new cpu, quad core and six cores in near future for macs also) i think gpu is the most important component to upgrade then cpu and ram
I wonder if anyone knows for sure where the i7 has the most significant impact
-in games? probably not
-video editing?
-audio editing?
-programming/coding?
-working with lots of sheets?
 
This post doesn’t make much sense.

The i5 is not faster than the i7, it’s slower both for single threaded and multi threaded applications. It generates less heat and is less expensive which is good but in no way makes it comparable to a sports car.

The Xeon is not the slowest either, it’s about as fast as the i5 but a lot better at multi threaded applications.

The i5 is a gaming CPU in one respect: it frees up extra cash to spend on a higher end vidcard.
But it's slower than an i7 or a Xeon.
 
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I know it's an old thread but there is one mistake that has been made over and over again. The i5 and i7 do not fit in the same thermal envelope.

i5-7500 & i5-7600 = 65W TDP
i5-7600K & i7-7700K = 91W TDP

From what I have heard the 91W versions get much hotter and are significantly louder due to the fact that the cooling system is identical on all of these. The iMac only has a single fan whereas they put two in the iMac Pro. Personally I would say there is absolutely no difference between the i5 and i7 experience in real-world usage whatsoever. Every i3 would be fast enough for what most people do these days, and CPUs have gotten so ridiculously fast at this point that unless you push your CPU to its limits regularly (for example by doing video encoding, virtualization, etc.) there really isn't much to gain in the i7 over the i5. Quite the contrary: due to their higher heat dissipation it may get hotter and most certainly also louder.
 
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