- iMac Pro will come with M1 Pro, M1 Max, and 2x M1 Max options
- Mac Pro will come with M1 Max, 2x M1 Max, and 4x M1 Max options
- 2x M1 Max will be called "Dual M1 Max" or "M1 Max Duo"
- 4x M1 Max will be called "Quad M1 Max" or "M1 Max Quad"
- iMac Pro will be configurable with up to 128GB of RAM (64GB per M1 Max chip)
- Mac Pro will be configurable with up to 256GB of RAM (64GB per M1 Max chip)
- Mac Pro will allow additional, non-unified, addon RAM up to 1.5TB (DDR5)
- We will see M2 Macbook Air before Apple Silicon Mac Pro
- Mac Pro SoC will still be based on A14 because its GPU cores are not multiples of 5 (A15). This is ok because Mac Pro buyers care much more about parallel performance and high system RAM.
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iMac & Mac Pro SoC speculation/predictions
- Thread starter senttoschool
- Start date
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Are these your predictions? How and why did you come up with these predictions? What is it exactly that you want to discuss in this thread?
1. Yes
2. Based on rumors and my own thinking
3. Feel free to either add in your own or comment on mine
I believe there will also be a base M1 Pro version of the desktop device whether it will be called a higher tier Mac Mini or a low tier Mac Pro; thus making a lower base price possible. ??
Prediction:
iMac Pro will come with M1 Pro and M1 Max chips, same as the MacBook Pro.
Screenshot this.
Speculation:
Mac Pro will be substantially different.
A15-based (M2)
Up to 40 cpu cores
Double or quadruple gpu cores
Up to 128 to 256 gb of ram
Starts at 32gb
Somehow extendable (pci or pci compatible)
Not likely to have user replaceable RAM.
I’m not sure how Apple could continue to expand the M-series. The die size of the Max is 436mm^2. Maybe having the cpu and gpu dies connected by substrate?
iMac Pro will come with M1 Pro and M1 Max chips, same as the MacBook Pro.
Screenshot this.
Speculation:
Mac Pro will be substantially different.
A15-based (M2)
Up to 40 cpu cores
Double or quadruple gpu cores
Up to 128 to 256 gb of ram
Starts at 32gb
Somehow extendable (pci or pci compatible)
Not likely to have user replaceable RAM.
I’m not sure how Apple could continue to expand the M-series. The die size of the Max is 436mm^2. Maybe having the cpu and gpu dies connected by substrate?
Currently the IRQ controller on M1 Max supports a maximum of 2 dies so Jade 2C may be M1 Max based but the rumored 4-die 40 core machines is likely to different.
The most recent rumors have the 4-die machines coming out at 3nm on 3rd generation chips … but starting with the biggest ones first this time. Given the timing they could still come out at the end of next year and would share cores with the A16, maybe even better though because the A16 is unlikely to be manufactured on 3nm unless Apple delays the iPhone launch.
www.macrumors.com
So my more grounded predictions:
1) A 2-die chip will be out significantly before a 4-die chip. The former will be fire/icestorm based. The latter will not. A new 2-die chip might drop when the 4-die chip does.
2) there will be a new Intel-based Mac Pro (Ice Lake Sapphire rapids) early next year, too much evidence points to its existence and it coming soon.
3) The M1 Pro will go into the higher end Mac mini which will be redesigned. It neatly replaces the remaining Intel mini. The M1 Max might also go into the mini but could be save for the “mini Mac Pro” desktop lineup.
My less grounded predictions:
1) The AS mini Mac Pro will not feature user upgradable RAM.
2) The smaller 2-die M1 Max variant will be a desktop rather than a workstation and will be in the iMac Pro and mini Mac Pro. It’s competition will be thus i7-i9s and Ryzens.
3) The larger 4-die version when it drops will target the threadripper workstation market rather than the Epyc/Xeon market as it won’t have expandable memory to 1.5 TB and Ice Lake Mac Pros will exist. It might have ECC memory. Later AS Mac might feature higher memory limits. I admit that this makes Apple’s promised 2-year transition timeline a bit of a stretch as technically the Ice Lake Mac Pro will have a niche (high memory) that the AS Mac can’t (initially) occupy.
The most recent rumors have the 4-die machines coming out at 3nm on 3rd generation chips … but starting with the biggest ones first this time. Given the timing they could still come out at the end of next year and would share cores with the A16, maybe even better though because the A16 is unlikely to be manufactured on 3nm unless Apple delays the iPhone launch.
Future Apple Silicon Macs Will Reportedly Use 3nm Chips With Up to 40 Cores
The Information's Wayne Ma today shared alleged details about future Apple silicon chips that will succeed the first-generation M1, M1 Pro, and...
www.macrumors.com
So my more grounded predictions:
1) A 2-die chip will be out significantly before a 4-die chip. The former will be fire/icestorm based. The latter will not. A new 2-die chip might drop when the 4-die chip does.
2) there will be a new Intel-based Mac Pro (Ice Lake Sapphire rapids) early next year, too much evidence points to its existence and it coming soon.
3) The M1 Pro will go into the higher end Mac mini which will be redesigned. It neatly replaces the remaining Intel mini. The M1 Max might also go into the mini but could be save for the “mini Mac Pro” desktop lineup.
My less grounded predictions:
1) The AS mini Mac Pro will not feature user upgradable RAM.
2) The smaller 2-die M1 Max variant will be a desktop rather than a workstation and will be in the iMac Pro and mini Mac Pro. It’s competition will be thus i7-i9s and Ryzens.
3) The larger 4-die version when it drops will target the threadripper workstation market rather than the Epyc/Xeon market as it won’t have expandable memory to 1.5 TB and Ice Lake Mac Pros will exist. It might have ECC memory. Later AS Mac might feature higher memory limits. I admit that this makes Apple’s promised 2-year transition timeline a bit of a stretch as technically the Ice Lake Mac Pro will have a niche (high memory) that the AS Mac can’t (initially) occupy.
1. I don't believe the iMac Pro will be available will multiple M1 Max configs. I think it will come in the exact configurations of the current MacBook Pro, because the iMac has thermal and power considerations in its minimalist design.
2. I don't believe the Mac Pro will come in low end configurations that have only a single M1 Pro or M1 Max. I think it will start at (2) M1 Max and scale up from there. I wish I was wrong about this and that Apple would provide a cheaper way to get in on the Mac Pro, but nothing I have seen from Apple indicates they would ever do that.
2. I don't believe the Mac Pro will come in low end configurations that have only a single M1 Pro or M1 Max. I think it will start at (2) M1 Max and scale up from there. I wish I was wrong about this and that Apple would provide a cheaper way to get in on the Mac Pro, but nothing I have seen from Apple indicates they would ever do that.
The Mac mini will get it's own Pro treatment, and offer same the configurations as the current MacBook Pro.
The Mac Pro will start at a much higher threshold. Minimum of 2 M1 Max and up from there.
Depending on the design a 27” iMac Pro could easily dissipate 190W (which would only be hit by running both CPU and GPU at full) - the current models certainly can … they have to! ?
Not saying it’s a definite, but it’s certainly plausible.
I think you kinda answered your own post here. The M1 Pro is almost certainly going to be in the mini. And if the M1 Max isn’t in the mini Mac Pro it’ll be in the mini. So the mini serves as the cheaper entry point into the mini Mac Pro.
Well, I wouldn't expect the design to differ at all from that of the new 24" iMac. Except in sheer size, and color. And that runs a single low end M1. Seems like M1 Pro and M1 Max fit nicely into that.
Yes.
Perhaps … however the current rumor is odd as it says the 27” will have a similar design to both the XDR and the 24” iMac which don’t look like each other. So who knows? ?♂️
I think the 27" (or possibly larger) iMac will have the Pro and Max. The iMac Pro will have the Jade 2C option (2 x M1 Max).
Eh, I think the rumor consensus is that it will have the scaled up design from the 24", and the display itself will be mini-LED, XDR, and Pro Motion.
Quite simply, I'm not expecting a NEW design to magically appear for the iMac twice in 12 months, consider a new iMac design comes up once a decade.
The current rumors are that the forthcoming larger iMac *is* the iMac Pro. And that work on it stalled when the design team switched gears to design the smaller iMac. That to me indicates two designs: the 27” iMac and the 24” iMac are effectively Pro vs Air but for the iMac line.
I’m thinking that the rumor stating that the 27” iMac will share its design cues from the 24” and XDR is simply referring to the flat design currently making its way through the Apple lineup (XDR, new iMac, new MBPs). So it’ll be rectangular and flat on the back as opposed to curved but unknown wether it’ll have a chin or the thermal capacity.
The Intel I7 draws 125 watts. The M1 Max draws 39.7 watts. Two M1 SOCs should not be a problem.
The larger iMac is by definition a new case design. I doubt that Apple will feel the need to limit the iMac Pro by making the case super thin. They seem to be making very practical and functional designs for the pro series. I expect the new design to be a little boxier and definitely thicker than the 24”. I also expect that they will design it so that it could have the higher end chips (2x, 4x) though they may not launch with those and keep those chips exclusive for the Mac Pro initially.
iMac & Mac Pro SoC speculation/predictions
Possible Mac Pro lineup:- 30" iMac Pro - dual Mn Max SoCs
- Mac Pro Cube - dual or quad Mn Max SoCs
- Mac Pro (tower) - dual or quad Mn Max SoCs
- Mn Max SoC - 256GB LPDDR5X RAM @ 500GB/s memory bandwidth
- Dual Mn Max SoCs - 512GB LPDDR5X RAM @ 1TB/s memory bandwidth
- Quad Mn Max SoCs - 1TB LPDDR5X RAM @ 2TB/s memory bandwidth
Note I state "Mn" for the series number, because there might also be a good chance that the first Apple silicon (ASi) Mac Pro models start with the M2 Max SoCs, bypassing M1 altogether...?
Maybe these M2 (A15) based SoCs have some first gen hardware for raytracing (PowerVR Photon Architecture), so the 'real' raytracing is in the M3 SoCs, with second gen RT hardware (a la Nvidia Turing / Ampere)...
I expect WWDC 2022 to focus heavily on the new Apple silicon Mac Pro lineup...!
I agree with some of OP’s points and disagree with others.
I think the desktop lineup will look something like:
iMac Pro - M1 Pro, M1 Max, M1 Max Duo
Mac mini (high-end) - M1 Pro, M1 Max
Mac Pro - M1 Max Duo, M1 Max Quad
Mac mini and Mac Pro will not overlap at M1 Max in my opinion. The Mac mini should be able to accomodate it, and including it in the Mac Pro would require a severe reduction in start price (an M1 Max iMac Pro would probably be mid to high $2000s, so an M1 Max box with no 5K display included would need to undercut that).
Disagree that the Apple Silicon Mac Pro will offer expandable RAM. As another commenter mentioned, we have seen evidence of a refresh of the Intel Mac Pro, which would only make sense if it is set to co-exist with the Apple Silicon Mac Pro for some time. I think the significantly higher memory capacity is one of the key motivations for maintaining it. We’ve also heard that the AS Mac Pro is a much smaller chassis, which would imply more limited expandability.
My guess on the timeline is that the iMac Pro and Mac Pro will be announced with M1 generation chips in Mar/Apr and June (WWDC) respectively. The first M2 MacBook will then follow in the Sep/Oct timeframe. I think there is a very real possibility that M2 skips a generation to be based on A16 (note that M1 came out very quickly after A14, and CPU gain from A14 to A15 was minor), with M2 Pro/Max/etc following by mid 2023. I think Apple could then switch to a one year cadence from then on, as they will no longer be contending with the semiconductor shortage and the challenges of ramping up new larger chips for the first time.
Somewhat related to this thread is a thread I started re. the BTO options Apple would offer for dual and quad M1 Max configurations if anyone is interested: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/possible-mac-pro-chip-options.2318399/
I think the desktop lineup will look something like:
iMac Pro - M1 Pro, M1 Max, M1 Max Duo
Mac mini (high-end) - M1 Pro, M1 Max
Mac Pro - M1 Max Duo, M1 Max Quad
Mac mini and Mac Pro will not overlap at M1 Max in my opinion. The Mac mini should be able to accomodate it, and including it in the Mac Pro would require a severe reduction in start price (an M1 Max iMac Pro would probably be mid to high $2000s, so an M1 Max box with no 5K display included would need to undercut that).
Disagree that the Apple Silicon Mac Pro will offer expandable RAM. As another commenter mentioned, we have seen evidence of a refresh of the Intel Mac Pro, which would only make sense if it is set to co-exist with the Apple Silicon Mac Pro for some time. I think the significantly higher memory capacity is one of the key motivations for maintaining it. We’ve also heard that the AS Mac Pro is a much smaller chassis, which would imply more limited expandability.
My guess on the timeline is that the iMac Pro and Mac Pro will be announced with M1 generation chips in Mar/Apr and June (WWDC) respectively. The first M2 MacBook will then follow in the Sep/Oct timeframe. I think there is a very real possibility that M2 skips a generation to be based on A16 (note that M1 came out very quickly after A14, and CPU gain from A14 to A15 was minor), with M2 Pro/Max/etc following by mid 2023. I think Apple could then switch to a one year cadence from then on, as they will no longer be contending with the semiconductor shortage and the challenges of ramping up new larger chips for the first time.
Somewhat related to this thread is a thread I started re. the BTO options Apple would offer for dual and quad M1 Max configurations if anyone is interested: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/possible-mac-pro-chip-options.2318399/
Let's play this out using LPDDR5X with 64GB chips:
2 dies - 512GB @ 1TB/s
4 dies - 1TB @ 2TB/s
9 dies - 2.25TB @ 4.5TB/s
16 dies - 4TB @ 8TB/s
25 dies - 6.25TB @ 12.5TB/s
2 dies - 20-core CPU (16P/4E) / 64-core GPU / 32-core Neural Engine
4 dies - 40-core CPU (32P/8E) / 128-core GPU / 64-core Neural Engine
9 dies - 90-core CPU (72P/18E) / 288-core GPU / 144-core Neural Engine
16 dies - 160-core CPU (128P/32E) / 512-core GPU / 256-core Neural Engine
25 dies - 250-core CPU (200P/50E) / 800-core GPU / 400-core Neural Engine
Last edited:
I suspect the iMac line will get the M1-Pro and M1-Max single packages.
The Mac Pro, I suspect will have sockets/places on the board for 2-4 M1-Max packages.
Plot twist:
The M1-max packages may have 128GB+ per package as higher capacity LPDDR5 modules become available by that point.
The Mac Pro, I suspect will have sockets/places on the board for 2-4 M1-Max packages.
Plot twist:
The M1-max packages may have 128GB+ per package as higher capacity LPDDR5 modules become available by that point.
Power Consumption
- 1 die 90W
- 2 dies 180W
- 4 dies 360W
- 9 dies 810W
- 16 dies 1,440W
- 25 dies 2,250W
I very much doubt we'll see more than 4 packages before the package itself gets upgraded.
I suspect the motherboards will be far too complex for that and won't suit the form factors and silent machines apple are likely to be targeting.
And besides. A quad M1-Max with appropriate RAM sizing will already smoke anything available in PC land quite handily and be quite "enough" until the M2 and M3 based solutions arrive.
Also very much doubt we'd see 90 watts per package power draw.
More likely you'll see a fairly quiet 4x M1-Max solution running in under 300 watts total system power with close to dead silence.
I suspect the motherboards will be far too complex for that and won't suit the form factors and silent machines apple are likely to be targeting.
And besides. A quad M1-Max with appropriate RAM sizing will already smoke anything available in PC land quite handily and be quite "enough" until the M2 and M3 based solutions arrive.
Also very much doubt we'd see 90 watts per package power draw.
More likely you'll see a fairly quiet 4x M1-Max solution running in under 300 watts total system power with close to dead silence.
I could see a possible rack mount Mac Pro model that has Quad Mn Max blades on a backplane, a 5U renderfarm...
Seems like the Mac Pro lineup of Apple silicon could just get better & better, allowing near real time interactivity for the end user in a bunch of DCC software...!
Batching renders & simulations at lunchtime & overnight, mass batching on the weekends...?
Nah, 420W bruh; push the watts to push the frequencies, you gotta trick to boost...! ;^p
I agree you might see multiple systems in a rack mount blade chassis. But per motherboard I reckon 4 packages will be the limit.