iMac much better deal than Mini?

[OldMike]

OldMike I also have the same problem to decide whether to buy an iMac 27“ i5 3.0 GHz 32 GB (with external TB3 SSD) or a new Mac mini i3 or i7 with 32 GB, eGPU and external TB3 SSD.
First some simple questions, maybe you can answer them?

Questions:

– Do you have any issues with your external TB3 SSD like the spontaneously disconnects reported by OWC when bus powered thunderbolt drives are connected directly to the Mac mini?
– Do you have any problems with Wi-Fi/bluetooth and connected USB devices?
– Do you know the power consumption of the eGPU at different tasks like idle, Safari, watching movies, gaming (at maxed out settings)?
– Is the eGPU noisy?

Wow, I apologize for missing your post. I would have replied earlier if I had caught it.

I have no issues with TB3 disconnects when running off an external NVME drive as a boot drive. I had seen some discussions of disconnects with other TB3 drives, but the TekQ Rapide that I am using has never had any issues and is 100% reliable.

I have seen minor issues with Wifi connections with USB devices connected. So far Bluetooth seems to be working reliably. When booting my Mini up for the first time, I could not get it to connect to wifi during setup with a USB dongle plugged in for my mouse. It was hung, until I pulled the dongle out. During normal usage I have not had any real issues with it, except if I restart or boot up from a shutdown - it might give some issue with wifi connecting - but once it is running I have had no issues. To be honest I don't really think about the issue. I also use a Bluetooth mouse and have not had issues with that at all.

I don't know the power consumption of the eGPU on its own, but according to my APC battery backup I don't think I have seen above 200 watts of power being used with the combo. This is with a Gigabyte Gaming Box RX 580. Most of the time I see it using around 150 to 160 watts.

The eGPU can get noisy if being pushed. I have it a little distance away from me. Because I am crazy, I actually use a laptop cooling fan to blow air onto my Mini and TB3 external SSD sitting on it (just in case) and that tends to be louder than eGPU. I would imagine that the iMac would be quieter, though, in most situations....

 

[oikos]

Wow, I apologize for missing your post. I would have replied earlier if I had caught it.

I have no issues with TB3 disconnects when running off an external NVME drive as a boot drive. I had seen some discussions of disconnects with other TB3 drives, but the TekQ Rapide that I am using has never had any issues and is 100% reliable.

I have seen minor issues with Wifi connections with USB devices connected. So far Bluetooth seems to be working reliably. When booting my Mini up for the first time, I could not get it to connect to wifi during setup with a USB dongle plugged in for my mouse. It was hung, until I pulled the dongle out. During normal usage I have not had any real issues with it, except if I restart or boot up from a shutdown - it might give some issue with wifi connecting - but once it is running I have had no issues. To be honest I don't really think about the issue. I also use a Bluetooth mouse and have not had issues with that at all.

I don't know the power consumption of the eGPU on its own, but according to my APC battery backup I don't think I have seen above 200 watts of power being used with the combo. This is with a Gigabyte Gaming Box RX 580. Most of the time I see it using around 150 to 160 watts.

The eGPU can get noisy if being pushed. I have it a little distance away from me. Because I am crazy, I actually use a laptop cooling fan to blow air onto my Mini and TB3 external SSD sitting on it (just in case) and that tends to be louder than eGPU. I would imagine that the iMac would be quieter, though, in most situations....

 

[oikos]

Interesting discussion here. I actually bought a maxed out 2018 Mini (to replace my 2012 maxed out Mini) about 3 months ago, but returned it, reaching the opposite conclusion of most folks in this thread. Because despite the fewer TB3 ports (I have both a TB3 and a TB2 dock that add lots of ports), I concluded that even the 2017 27" iMac would better meet my needs (still photography), due to the costs and noise of adding a 4K or 5K external monitor that I was also hoping to add to my normal resolution 24" NEC photography monitor (replacing my 2nd display, a still-nice 2003 20" Apple ADC Cinema), plus an eGPU to the apparently graphically-crippled Mini to run the two monitors. Though I have had well over a dozen Macs over the last 32 years (more laptops than desktops), I've never had an iMac, and the 27" is also reportedly much easier to upgrade it's RAM than the Mini. And throw in a free keyboard and mouse with the iMac.

The only Macs that I've ever had serious component problems with were in an 8 year-old G4 tower, and a 2 year old 2014 11" MacBookAir, but I always buy with AppleCare, which covered the latter. Then the 2019 iMac came out and seems even better (primarily faster and more cores, plus a freebie 8gb Radeon 580X GPU due to a price/configuration glitch/bonus I noticed that has since been documented by MacRumors). That gives me the 5K 27" monitor plus 24" NEC with more graphics power than I'll ever need and more speed (strengthening its future-proofing), with the same cooling system and ports as the 2017 iMac. And I reached this conclusion despite the iMac's reported cooling issues - the slower i5 processors were reportedly much less of a cooling problem than the faster i5s or i7s, so I have been leaning toward going with one of the i5s.

I also have a 2 Tb Samsung T5 external SSD (USB 3.1), which is plenty fast in my experience, so I am leaning toward just getting a 512 Gb SSD in the iMac, rather than the 1 Tb I ordered in the Mini, as I was also intrigued with the idea of moving my Home Folder off the internal drive in order to make future machine transitions easier (Apple's Migration software has NEVER worked smoothly for me). But I am still confused about the difficulty of doing this, so I haven't pulled the trigger. But none of the arguments above for the Mini were convincing to me, despite my old Mini serving me well for a long 6.5 years, as I hope this next machine will also do.

Is there some power in the 2018 Mini that I'm missing? Saying it will prevent a risk of having to replace a whole computer if one component goes bad (only happened once in my 32 years of Macs), when you need to replace the Mini's entire graphics system with an expensive and reportedly risky eGPU right from the start, doesn't make sense to me. It just seems seriously crippled, graphically, and even though I don't do any video editing, that doesn't make sense to me. Counter-arguments?

 

[Neodym]

There have been mixed reports about the 2018 mini's GPU. Some seem to have no problems in driving high-res monitors with it, other do have. To me, that would either point to a wide-spread mass defect - or perhaps a problem with the monitor (e.g. sporting an MST panel instead of SST). Also, the problems seemed to occur primarily when using scaled resolutions, not native resolutions.

Not sure how much still photography would benefit from having a dedicated GPU. However, there have always been reports about overheating iMacs, especially when the GPU was really taxed, so having a comparably hot GPU like the 580 may not be helpful in the iMac's anemic case. With an eGPU, cooling options are easier, more powerful and overheating primarily affects the GPU and nothing else. Not sure why an eGPU would be risky?!

Free mouse & keyboard (as well as included monitor) may be interesting if you like Apple's devices there. Quite some people (myself included) prefer 3rd party products, though, which are often better suited in various ways. Thus those "add-ons" offer no additional benefit, but have to be paid for.

Interesting that you complain about the "crippled" GPU in the mini, but "cripple" yourself with the CPU in the iMac for fear of overheating. While the GPU in the mini may leave room for improvement, it seems to be sufficiently capable of driving hi-res displays (at least for some people) in 2D. The i5 OTOH is definitely weaker than the i7 for every user.

And if at some point down the road you feel that the GPU is insufficient for your tasks, you can easily add an eGPU. But if you feel that the CPU is not up to the task anymore, there is nothing like an eCPU AFAIK

 

[marclondon]

Very happy with my 2018 i7 Mini so far - it wipes the floor with my old 2012 i7 - but I've no current need for a heavyweight GPU. I like having two separate screens I can move about the desk with proper height and swivel and will be upgrading one to a 27 inch 2560 x 1440 (WQHD) I think - while 4k and 5k may be great I think for everyday work purposes this will be fine. I already have the fantastic Apple extended keyboard.

 

[HeavyMantra]

Myself, I regret buying the mini. The iGPU is honestly weaker than I thought, the CPU consistently runs at 90c and often spikes into 100c territory without activating the fans, and I don't see any monitor that I actually want to buy yet. I just don't like how iMacs look so that's why I went with the mini

To be fair, I bought this computer for audio work and right after I bought it I got problems with my ears, unabling me from listening to music. So right now, I'm browsing the internet and play the few games I can on a 3000 dollar mini, and that's not even including the monitor I haven't bought yet that may even require an eGPU. What does an eGPU cost, 1300 dollars? This thing is going to end up way more expensive than an iMac.

My fear is that they'll redesign the iMac and offer it in space grey...

 

[Neodym]

What does an eGPU cost, 1300 dollars?

Where do people get these numbers from? $1.300 would buy you two(!) Gigabyte Aorus 2070 eGPU’s on Amazon. A Gigabyte R580 is $420 and an empty Akitio housing is $240. And Amazon probably hasn’t got the lowest prices out there.

Regarding the mini’s price: Sounds like all boxes ticked. Did you configure an iMac for your original use case? I would expect that its price would be beyond the mini‘s price (for a comparable configuration).

 

[marclondon]

I don't think 8GB is enough ram for the i7 machine that's being worked fairly hard with browsers with lots of tabs open, especially, plus apps such as Photoshop, Indesign, Acrobat, Office etc that I'm currently running. 8GB is pretty maxed out and I'm waiting for 2x16GB to install (having failed to get a first order from Crucial to work). Having said that the Mini has only sometimes ramped up fan and stalled Safari, whereas my old Mini became unusable.

 

[oikos]

I don't think 8GB is enough ram for the i7 machine that's being worked fairly hard with browsers with lots of tabs open, especially, plus apps such as Photoshop, Indesign, Acrobat, Office etc that I'm currently running. 8GB is pretty maxed out and I'm waiting for 2x16GB to install (having failed to get a first order from Crucial to work). Having said that the Mini has only sometimes ramped up fan and stalled Safari, whereas my old Mini became unusable.

Thanks! I completely agree on the RAM. Was planning to add at least 16gb now, maybe 32. Or 16 now, 16 later.
[doublepost=1561776059][/doublepost]

Where do people get these numbers from? $1.300 would buy you two(!) Gigabyte Aorus 2070 eGPU’s on Amazon. A Gigabyte R580 is $420 and an empty Akitio housing is $240. And Amazon probably hasn’t got the lowest prices out there.

Regarding the mini’s price: Sounds like all boxes ticked. Did you configure an iMac for your original use case? I would expect that its price would be beyond the mini‘s price (for a comparable configuration).

I actually did compare specs and prices carefully, and found that by the time I added a eGPU, enclosure for same, and a good 4K photography monitor to the Mini, I'd be spending much more than I would for an iMac with a R575 or 580 (likely more than I need) and its 5K monitor, and have still even more graphics card than I need, given my lack of video work. So the iMac seemed like a better value for me. And I kept reading horror stories about people's experience with the eGPUs on the market, actually.

So my sacrifice was to be to go with the cooler i5 iMac, though now I am questioning that.

 

[oikos]

There have been mixed reports about the 2018 mini's GPU. Some seem to have no problems in driving high-res monitors with it, other do have. To me, that would either point to a wide-spread mass defect - or perhaps a problem with the monitor (e.g. sporting an MST panel instead of SST). Also, the problems seemed to occur primarily when using scaled resolutions, not native resolutions.

Not sure how much still photography would benefit from having a dedicated GPU. However, there have always been reports about overheating iMacs, especially when the GPU was really taxed, so having a comparably hot GPU like the 580 may not be helpful in the iMac's anemic case. With an eGPU, cooling options are easier, more powerful and overheating primarily affects the GPU and nothing else. Not sure why an eGPU would be risky?!

Free mouse & keyboard (as well as included monitor) may be interesting if you like Apple's devices there. Quite some people (myself included) prefer 3rd party products, though, which are often better suited in various ways. Thus those "add-ons" offer no additional benefit, but have to be paid for.

Interesting that you complain about the "crippled" GPU in the mini, but "cripple" yourself with the CPU in the iMac for fear of overheating. While the GPU in the mini may leave room for improvement, it seems to be sufficiently capable of driving hi-res displays (at least for some people) in 2D. The i5 OTOH is definitely weaker than the i7 for every user.

And if at some point down the road you feel that the GPU is insufficient for your tasks, you can easily add an eGPU. But if you feel that the CPU is not up to the task anymore, there is nothing like an eCPU AFAIK

Some good points made by everyone, thanks! I agree about the "free" keyboard and mouse. My current Apple Extended keyboard is fine, and I like my old Kensington mouse better than any I've had from Apple. Was just wondering if the "Magic mouse" might be nice to try.

On the graphics and CPU, I found that by the time I added a eGPU, its enclosure, and a good 4K photography monitor (not fully convinced about even some $1500 options out there right now) to the Mini, I'd be spending much more than I would for an iMac with a R575 or 580 (likely more than I need) and its 5K monitor, and end up with even more graphics card than I need, given my lack of video work. And I kept reading horror stories about people's experience with the eGPUs on the market, actually, which is why it seemed a "risky" way to go. And one of the other respondents to my message had deep regrets about going with a Mini, and its graphics as well as heat challenges. So the iMac seemed like a better value for me.

Since my 2012 Mini was in fact an i7, as is by 2017 MacBookPro (dual), perhaps I should reconsider the i5 vs i7 longevity issue, as you pointed out. Still unsure, but Thanks to all!

 

[v-i-c-]

Wow, I apologize for missing your post. I would have replied earlier if I had caught it.

I’ve finally bought the i7 Mac mini (1149 EUR), 32 GB RAM were added by a local ASP for just 286 EUR (Apple wants 720 EUR). I’ve added a Razer Core X with a super cheap RX570 8 GB (just 136 EUR). As startup drive I use a 512 GB Samsung X5 (210 EUR) which is great and runs really fast:

Also the RX570 as eGPU is great:

And the i7 runs even faster than expected (Geekbench browser lists it with a score of 5667 / 24334)

So far I have zero troubles with anything. Even when the mini is placed in a cabinet full of USB cables, hubs and other hardware WiFi still works fine. No problems with thunderbolt to power the drive. I am really happy with the setup.

To make the entire setup silent and to keep any dust away I placed my old mini (2014) and the new 2018 mini, the Razer Core X with RX570, 8 external HDs/SSDs and a Xbox one into a cabinet. 3 fans blow air in 3 fans blow air out another 4 fans move air around in the cabinet. The floors inside the cabinet are based on a wire mesh shelf. Three self made silencers (just a simple box which is open on two sides with Basotect on all surfaces) are placed at the openings of the cabinet, the fans of the AC Infinity Airplate T9 were removed from the plate and placed at the internal opening of the silencer to make the fans even quiter. Where possible the internal surfaces of the cabinet are coated with Basotect absorbers. This way most of the noise of any fans and of the HDs is eliminated.

They original AC Infinity cabinet fans were too loud so I replaced them with Arctic P12. Did a test with a worst case scenario. Works fine when both Macs and the Xbox run games on a super hot summer day (38°C). After 2 hours the temperature at the top of the cabinet stay at constant 40°C (which is fine because it is the maximum allowed temperature to run a Razer Core X). At the leve where the Mac minis are located at the temperature stays around 32°C. The Mac minis use TG Pro to run at a higher fan speed to keep the minis always much cooler than with Apples custom settings.

The cabinet fits perfectly to the height-adjustable desk. So overall I have a nice ergonomic and silent work station now. I’m certain I will enjoy this setup for a much longer time than a VESA iMac.