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If you have to ask why the iMac is more expensive then it really isn't for you. It does a lot of things well, such as having a nice form factor, but it really isn't that good of a deal because of Apple's insistence on using low power parts.

For the same cost as a top end iMac, i can build a PC that has a 32" 1080P HDTV (as the monitor), a BR drive, a faster processor than the iMac, a faster GPU, the same or more RAM, a better HDD, etc.

The reason you would go with an iMac is because a) OSX is important to you b) You like the form factor or c) you have too much money, in which case I probably need it more than you do (plz send checks :p). If you have a real reason to need the power, whether it is gaming, video encoding, mass amounts of storage or whatever else you do, the iMac is really a pretty stupid choice.
 
I used my Sony Vaio laptop for 4 years without reinstalling windows, having a virus, malware or any slow down in performance. It was kept in the trunk of my car year round and was used for at least 3 hours a day every day except for weekends. It went from freezing cold to scorching hot in the trunk. It never gave me a problem except for the 3.5" floppy drive failed (imagine that after being in a trunk all the time when not in use!). I gave that laptop to my son for use in college and he uses it all the time without issues. I now use a Dell laptop for my job. I got the Dell because my company gave it to me and its HDD is twice the size of the Sony. Been using it for over a year without any issues.

I have a 80386/16Mhz laptop in my closet that I bought many many years ago (think it was 1990 or 91) that came with Windows 3.0 installed. It still works and sits next to my Mac se/30 and collection of old Apple laptops. I threw away a couple of Dells from the mid 90's because I needed the space, not because they did not work.

of course there are SOME people (like you) who's PC's last a long time. But it is a FACT that the AVERAGE PC life is pretty poor. Especially if you consider "how long does it perform at near-optimal speeds like it did on the day you bought it".
 
of course there are SOME people (like you) who's PC's last a long time. But it is a FACT that the AVERAGE PC life is pretty poor. Especially if you consider "how long does it perform at near-optimal speeds like it did on the day you bought it".

As long as you aren't stupid, it can last quite awhile. My dad is still using a laptop that has a 600mhz PIII, and for basic web surfing and word processing it runs fine. As long as you are reasonable about anti-virus (many people I know don't even use it and have no problems) it shouldn't have too many problems.

Also, I don't get this myth that Macs have no vulnerabilities. I go to computer defense competitions every once in awhile (ie. Red team tries to hack our computers, we try and stop them) and I have seen some mac based systems go down pretty spectacularly. BSD based systems are good, but even OpenBSD only calls their stuff invulnerable while you don't have anything on it.
 
But it is a FACT that the AVERAGE PC life is pretty poor. Especially if you consider "how long does it perform at near-optimal speeds like it did on the day you bought it".

The one thing Windows does well is open the system to uninformed people. If they can click on it they do and the result is instability, malware and virus's. Most of the pain people have with a Windows PC is their own fault. Note I said MOST. Vista UAC is supposed to fix this problem by warning you 3 or 4 times before it lets you go ahead and do something bad.

Windows was originally a shell on top of DOS. Now it's a shell on top of 18 years of patches and kludges. Apple saw the writing on the wall with Mac OS and was smart enough to toss out the legacy code and start relatively fresh. Snow Leopard is going to do the same thing to PPC users.

OS X is not immune to click happy users, but it handles it a little better.
 
1) Better build quality
2) All in one design
3) Made out of much better material
4) Mac os x
5) Lasts longer
6) Screen is no doubt higher resolution and better quality (than a 22" screen at least)
7) Glass protection on the lcd screen (also has glossy effect)
8) Only requires one power cable to work (if you gat wireless internet, keyboard and mouse)
9) Takes up less space (yep no giant tower next to it)
10) Its a MAC, BITCH!!!!!(self explanatory)

number 10 is my favorite!
 
If you have a real reason to need the power, whether it is gaming, video encoding, mass amounts of storage or whatever else you do, the iMac is really a pretty stupid choice.

I've not seen a flavor of Windows that multitasks as well as OS X.

I had a choice of using a Vista Home Premium PC I built with NVidia 8600 video, 2.66GHz C2D processor, 250GB HDD and 2GB RAM -OR- a Mac Mini 1.83GHz C2D w/2GB ram and an 80GB HDD that I bought after I had been using the Vista PC for 6 months. I bought the Mac just because I wanted to have an Intel mac around. It was a deal NIB $510. The Vista PC had a Windows Experience Index score of 5.4, so it was no slouch (video rating was 5.9).

I had them both hooked up to the same keyboard, mouse, monitor and speakers via a KVM switch, so could use either when I chose. Both were powered up 24/7. The result was that the Vista PC sat unused. The difference in performance was significant. The Mini was a better computer for day to day tasks. I eventually gave the Mini to my wife and bought a new iMac 24".

Oh ya the Vista PC? I gave it to my son (he usually gets my hand downs, but my wife gets first dibs). The only thing he required before he would take it was that I remove Vista and install XP. He's quite happy with it, but wishes he had some of the cool stuff available only on the Mac.
 
I wasn't talking about multi-tasking. That falls under more of a "feel" category than a hard power category. I have honestly had absolutely no problems running a large number of programs in Vista (at one point I was running close to 200 instances of Firefox simultaneously with acceptable slowdown), but I imagine that anything like that would be more related to the hardware/software configurations of your machines than the OS's themselves.

What I was talking about was raw power a single task, which is really the only thing you need an expensive CPU/GPU for these days. If you are trying to get real performance for activities like playing games or encoding, then Macs generally can't compete in cost with their PC counterparts.
 
This is how I feel about Macs in general:

The performance of the OS is just so much better it's not even funny. I have had my iMac now for almost a year this coming August (my first mac ever 20 year PC user). It still boots up in less than 30 seconds and shuts down in less than 5 seconds. Try that on a year old Vista or even XP machine!

I am no beginner user either I am a Network/SQL Admin for my company with 500+ Win PC's. My Dell D820 has all types of apps installed on it, VMWare VI, Netbackup, SQL Server Client, etc etc with a 2.2 Ghz C2D with 3GB of RAM and it still takes over two minutes to boot and login and almost a minute to shut down, this is on XP when I had vista it was almost double the time...

My iMac on the other hand has multiple apps installed and uninstalled (Candybar, Reason, Handbrake, Aperture, VisualHub, Transmission, Veoh, all the codecs, etc...), and it serves as my Media server with over 700GB of pics, movies, tv shows and music, for my ATV and Mini and it still has the exact same performance that it had on day one, to me that's worth the premium right there.

Also it stays on 24/7 I never turn it off, never reboot it unless an update requires me. That's what I call solid performance and reliability, and that my friends is not something you can put a price tag on!
 
I wasn't talking about multi-tasking. That falls under more of a "feel" category than a hard power category.

So long as you don't need to use the PC for more then one processor intense task at a time, I guess it does not matter if OS X multitasks better then Vista or XP. To me it represent more efficient use of the power of the computer when the OS provides for better sharing of resources. It equates to more power available to do other things.
 
So long as you don't need to use the PC for more then one processor intense task at a time, I guess it does not matter if OS X multitasks better then Vista or XP. To me it represent more efficient use of the power of the computer when the OS provides for better sharing of resources. It equates to more power available to do other things.

The reason I put it under the "feel" category is that I haven't noticed anything wrong with Vista's multitasking. Just for kicks, I loaded up 50 instances of firefox, Neverwinter Nights in windowed mode, a couple VM's, Itunes and a few other things and switching between them never had a noticeable delay other than the time it took to animate. This is on a system with 8 gigs of RAM though, so it might just be OSX working better on 2 gigs of RAM than vista.

The big thing is that I haven't seen a hard advantage in OSX over Vista other than security (and that has a fair amount of security through obscurity as well). On a personal level I may have different opinions, but in any case where raw performance is my concern I would have to choose windows because it allows me to maximize the performance/price of the hardware.
 
The reason I put it under the "feel" category is that I haven't noticed anything wrong with Vista's multitasking. Just for kicks, I loaded up 50 instances of firefox, Neverwinter Nights in windowed mode, a couple VM's, Itunes and a few other things and switching between them never had a noticeable delay other than the time it took to animate. This is on a system with 8 gigs of RAM though, so it might just be OSX working better on 2 gigs of RAM than vista.

The big thing is that I haven't seen a hard advantage in OSX over Vista other than security (and that has a fair amount of security through obscurity as well). On a personal level I may have different opinions, but in any case where raw performance is my concern I would have to choose windows because it allows me to maximize the performance/price of the hardware.

Unfortunately you're not comparing apples to apples [no pun intended!]. If you take a PC w/8GB of RAM, then you need to compare that to a Mac Pro with the same. Take that same PC w/2GB of RAM and a Mac running 2GB of RAM. I guarantee that the Mac will outpace it easily.

I agree though; Vista is not a total POS. I BETA tested it, and ran the RTM for a while. But overall, OS X is just more stable and more fun to use. Whatever floats your boat really...
 
Unfortunately you're not comparing apples to apples [no pun intended!]. If you take a PC w/8GB of RAM, then you need to compare that to a Mac Pro with the same. Take that same PC w/2GB of RAM and a Mac running 2GB of RAM. I guarantee that the Mac will outpace it easily.

Exactly my point. OS X is more efficient. In addition what I have seen in all flavors of Windows, but to a lesser extent in Vista is the system hanging while hardware is accessed, like a CD or new hard ware detected. I rarely see it in OS X.
 
Also, I don't get this myth that Macs have no vulnerabilities.

That myth cracks me up as well. People don't realize that it's not that our precious Macs are more secure than windows PCs (well, perhaps they are, but that's not the point), it's that hackers don't target us as much because we are a minority. I hope the day never comes where most people, especially businesses and large corporations, choose Macs over Windows PCs.

I also don't get the "Macs are more reliable and last longer than PCs" (hardware-wise) argument. Hey, I love Macs just as much as anyone else here, but Apple gets its parts from the same companies that supply parts to Windows PCs. Take away OSX and the fancy case, and what you have left is a PC.

To the OP, Macs are more expensive due to two reasons, supply/demand and the Apple brand name (I like the Jeans analogy above). They are not as popular as Windows PCs, so Apple raises the price. I find it amusing to hear the reasons we justify the price increase.
 
That myth cracks me up as well. People don't realize that it's not that our precious Macs are more secure than windows PCs (well, perhaps they are, but that's not the point), it's that hackers don't target us as much because we are a minority. I hope the day never comes where most people, especially businesses and large corporations, choose Macs over Windows PCs.

I also don't get the "Macs are more reliable and last longer than PCs" (hardware-wise) argument. Hey, I love Macs just as much as anyone else here, but Apple gets its parts from the same companies that supply parts to Windows PCs. Take away OSX and the fancy case, and what you have left is a PC.

To the OP, Macs are more expensive due to two reasons, supply/demand and the Apple brand name (I like the Jeans analogy above). They are not as popular as Windows PCs, so Apple raises the price. I find it amusing to hear the reasons we justify the price increase.

GMTA
 
well 2 other people in my family hav the new 20" aluminium imac. i thought they were pretty cool and since i hav a dodgy laptop i'll get a 2.8 ghz 24" mac, probably wth 4gb ram so its fast. ive done research on the mac screens and saw that the 24 inch has 16 million colours and is hd quality but the 20 inch doesnt.

my friend is about to buy a pc with 22 or 23" screen 4 gb ram and 500gb hard drive for bout $1500.00

is there a reason why imacs are so expensive? what do imacs hav for the $800 more that pc's dont???

thanks

Well, Apple Mac's always been expensive. Then they have a great OS (the OS alone should be £600). Apple is a award winning company for design (simple stuff and you already admitted that they are cool :)). Apple really think about there products and always deliver a great product where only a few people might be disappointed but then probably converted later on.

Also recently, I compared the high end iMac, fully upgraded to the equivalent from Dell and other companies. My results where surprising that I found the PC's actually slightly more expensive.
 
Having recently switched, i can easily say a Mac is worth the extra cost, its surprising how well OS X can multitask, and its great setting programs to start on login, in the background, to save me those few seconds when i choose to actually open it to the desktop.

The Build quality on my MBP is superb, easily better than any other laptop i have used, although after a few months, we will see how surfaces take to wear etc.
 
I was thinking I'd stay out of this, but it's a slow afternoon. I'm a switcher (2 years in the Mac world, if you don't count an SE30 my child used back in the 90s). I'm not going back...I'm quite happy, but some of this fanboi stuff is too much. Here's my experience:

G4 mini Dec 05. Pretty wimpy machine in many ways, but got the job done (if slowly).

Mac Pro Oct 06. No big problems, but unreliable sleep, fan noise on awakening when it deigns to awake, 2nd DVD drive that opens randomly or when I ask for the first one to open. I like it just fine anyway.

Macbook Pro 15" August 06. Fan noise, requiring trip to Apple store. Display backlighting just uneven and dim now. Hard drive died; I replaced it without difficulty. Its surfaces have not worn well at all. Trackpad unreliable. This one has been a troublesome machine and is now relegated to being the XP machine for when I need one.

Macbook Pro 15" March 08. Happy as can be, with no problems at all.

Macbook Pro 17" March 08, the same. Very nice machine. Great display (optional hi-res but not glossy).

20" Cinema Display, Dec 06. Nice, but not that nice. The awkward power brick (and those silly ports) is what lets you have that thin display. My 2004 23" Sony P234 is a better display, I think, but whenever we get new ACDs I'm sure they will be much, much better than the Sony. When the 17" is side by side with the Sony, the difference is striking.

But note that the two new MBPs aren't even 6 months old yet. We'll see how well they age.

My son had a dual proc G5, which is now mine. Lots of headaches at first (actually had a bad CPU, the first time I've ever heard of that, and I've been computing since 1981) but stabilized eventually.

Yeah, the designs are nice. As far as taste goes, though, I don't like the Mac Pro case much, visually. Functionally, it's excellent. Inside, the layout is superb. And it's the quietest tower I've ever had, which means a lot to me.

Fast startup is a huge plus for me.

Not having to have anti-this and that, another plus, but not so much for the expense as for the bother of keeping them updated.

I don't like the way Finder works, and although basic networking is good, using my NAS is not always smooth.

Time Machine is nice mostly because it's convenient (and 10.5.4 seems to have fixed the failed backup problem). It's a nice implementation of what, differential backup? I don't like that Apple wants us to believe that they invented this kind of backup, when all they did was wrap a nice UI around it (and it is nice...I do like it).

Mostly what I don't like about Apple is the lack of choice. It's their way or go somewhere else. I've stayed and don't intend to leave the Mac camp, but it's annoying.

Now what was the OP's question? Oh, iMac. If you want that form factor, it can't be beat. If you like the 24" glossy...great. If not...oops! No 24" iMac for you! My son has a 24" glossy and it's a very nice screen. He's a professional video editor in NYC and does some work at home on the iMac from time to time. He says it handles it nicely (Avid / FCP).

I built probably two dozen PCs when I was using them -- everything from simple ones to dual Xeons. They all did their jobs well and most of them are still out there working for other people who just want a machine that works for them. I do keep trying to get them to switch, because as time goes on I remember fewer and fewer of the XP tricks and sometimes I have to think for a while when I open a case, so I'd like to get them on Macs, to make my life easier. My friends call me the Mac Pimp, but it's self-preservation more than anything else.

I had a bunch of Dell laptops over the years and they were all OK, but none of them were more than OK. They did their jobs without any fuss, but I never bonded with them the way I've bonded with the 17" MBP.

Finally, you want examples of amazing design and durability? Look at the older DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) machines. I cut my computing teeth on PDP-11s and then moved on to VAXes and AlphaServers. I had a microVAX that I used for 5 years and moved more than 300 times, in cars and vans; I used it outside, in tents, in the open, inside, hot, cold, you name it, and it was up 24/7 except when being transported. I had zero hardware failures. I had zero system crashes (VMS). In fact, after the VAX, the only hardware failures I ever had over the next 11 years, in the various AlphaServers, were a memory stick, a CD drive, a bad SCSI drive, and I had to replace one power supply. These, again, were 24/7 move-them-around machines. I had 64 bits on the desktop long before the G5s came out. I never, no not ever, had a VMS crash except for the time that the memory stick went out. Not once! Got that MicroVAX in 1990, so that's 16 years, onsite and 24/7 without a crash (I shut down the business in 2006). VMS didn't have much of a GUI, though, I'll grant that. But it did have X, and X-terminals and X-terminal emulators could do some nice stuff. (Oh, you thought X was an Apple product?) But for getting my real-time job done the DEC/Compaq machines were absolutely unbeatable.
 
Some folks have no problem buying a pair of Jeans at Walmart. Others would not get caught dead in the place. They would prefer to shop at a far more expensive store in the Mall. Why? Is the fit of the jeans superior? Do they last longer? Are they cut in a unique way that makes them look better? Why do they cost several times over what the Walmart jeans cost? Do they feel catered to in the Mall?

I know this is like way off topic, but the jeans especially Levi jeans sold at walmart are actually called the "signature line" and are of lesser quality then the Levi jeans sold at the mall. The denim is thinner, but the signature jeans are half the price of mall Levi's. Just wanted to clarify.. :D

Now back to the :apple: question!
 
I know this is like way off topic, but the jeans especially Levi jeans sold at walmart are actually called the "signature line" and are of lesser quality then the Levi jeans sold at the mall. The denim is thinner, but the signature jeans are half the price of mall Levi's. Just wanted to clarify.. :D

Now back to the :apple: question!

so if dell got to use mac os x....
dell machines would be sh*tty compared to the apple ones but they would cost less ;)
 
so if dell got to use mac os x....
dell machines would be sh*tty compared to the apple ones but they would cost less ;)

With Windows installed Dell computers are crap, their service and support is unsatisfactory. I cannot see OS X improving the situation. Dell used to be the company I would recommend to my customers. In the past 5 years it has become just another poor quality mass offering like HP.

I am generalizing, as both HP and Dell do have a few offerings that are good quality, but they are not cheap. In the end you still get poor support however.
 
With Windows installed Dell computers crap, their service and support is unsatisfactory. I cannot see OS X improving the situation. Dell used to be the company I would recommend to my customers. In the past 5 years it has become just another poor quality mass offering like HP.

I am generalizing, as both HP and Dell do have a few offerings that are good quality, but they are not cheap. In the end you still get poor support however.

took me three seperate 2 hour sessions on the phone with "bobby" :rolleyes: to get them to replace a deffective battery.
 
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