iMac PowerPC G4 (Lamp) > Constant beep during boot

[liquidplace]

Hello dear community,

I registered myself in the forum today and hope for concentrated "expertise"! ;-) and maybe your help with a little problem.

A work colleague gave me a beautiful 20 "iMac PowerPC G4 / 1.25GHz / 80GB hard drive (Hitachi) / 1GB RAM (2x512GB DDR SDRAM) / 2004 / Mac OS 10.5.8 (aka:" The lamp " and would now like to enable it to have a dignified, extended life with little extras such as SSD and RAM upgrades.

He has a little problem that I hope to fix:

• Uniform beep during the boot process
• Several successive boot processes (with switching on / off) result in different boot process times:
• Boot process 1> When I boot the iMac, the boot process takes a certain amount of time and you can hear a steady beep all the time.
• Boot process 2> If I switch off the iMac immediately after this first boot process and start it again, the boot process takes much shorter and you only hear 3 beeps.
• Boot process 3> If I switch off the iMac again after this second boot process and boot it again, the boot process is again shorter and only 1 short beep sounds.

My Google research on the common beeps that existing for various iMac series (RAM module not recognized, etc. ...) unfortunately yielded no result. So it's not the RAM. Both RAM modules are being displayed with status ok within the system.

According to the previous owner, the iMac was very rarely turned on / used in the past 1/2 years. Could it be the backup battery that, after 17 years, is now pointing to the end of its life?

Additional question: When the iMac is switched on, the fan starts up quickly and audibly runs all the time. Can it make sense to install a new fan in such a 17 year old model, which would be quieter? Buying tip? ;-)

Enclosed you will find the 3 boot processes recorded audiovisually as videos:

• Boot process 1 > http://www.liquidplace.com/imac/iMac_Bootvorgang_1.mp4
• Boot process 2 > http://www.liquidplace.com/imac/iMac_Bootvorgang_2.mp4
• Boot process 3 > http://www.liquidplace.com/imac/iMac_Bootvorgang_3.mp4

Crazy >>> If you do several on / off / boot processes in succession, the boot time is shortened each time.

Than, during the 4th time/boot the beep was no longer there, see the following video:
Boot process 4 (no beep)> http://www.liquidplace.com/imac/iMac_Bootvorgang_4_no_beep.mp4

After that 4 boot processes I left the iMac switched off for 2 hours and now switched it on again .... and the beeping is back > now 4 times #Beepmachine !!!

Boot process 5 (it beeps again > http://www.liquidplace.com/imac/iMac_Bootvorgang_5_nach_2std_ausgeschaltet_sein.mp4

So now .... I'll cross my fingers and hope for some help within that super great Macrumors forum ;-)

Thank you in advance!

Regards

Micha

 

[FirDerrig33]

My initial thought was that the beeping pointed to bad or incorrect RAM being used. I know that you stated that you have 1GB in there in 2 x 512MB modules and they display normal in system profiler, so that might not always be the case but could be related.

With PowerPC Macs the machine will provide different beeps upon boot and different numbers of beeps (as you know because you already stated it. That being said, I would do more research on the memory being used because memory modules can and do fail and some fail over time.

1 beep: No RAM installed
2 beeps: Incompatible RAM types/modules
3 beeps: Bad/unavailable RAM banks

4 beeps: No good boot images
5 beeps: Bad CPU

With your videos, even though they were usually continuous beeping, the ones that stood out were: the video where the machine beeped 3 times and then booted, and then beeped once and then booted. My guess would be that the RAM modules are in the process of failing.

I'm wondering if perhaps the original thermal paste needs to be replaced. If the original owner did the upgrade, they might not have properly cleaned/reapplied thermal paste where required whenever the machine is opened up.

The PRAM battery might need to be replaced and a really good sign of that would be the machine telling you that the time is wrong when you boot it up. If that's not the case then it might still be ok (but I would replace it anyway at this point).

I would recommend opening it up, cleaning everything, re-applying thermal paste, replacing the Memory, and getting a better HDD or SSD.

 

[za9ra22]

I would echo those thoughts on the RAM - it seems likely that at least one of the two modules may either be bad or not seating correctly. You would not see this reflected in the system profiler since any time you are able to access that, the system has already been able to address the RAM correctly during boot.

Some basic testing by pulling one RAM module at a time to see if the beeps continue when booting might help nail down which (or both) might be the problem.

I recently obtained a 17 inch G4 iLamp, which was known good previously, but produced three beeps when attempting to boot. I took it apart and examined the internal RAM module - the only one it had at the time. The end closest to the heat pipe looked quite discoloured, so I cleaned the contact faces with a soft pencil eraser and reseated it. I also replaced the PRAM battery since it is right there next to the RAM slot. After that, the system booted properly and has done since.

There are potential overheating issues with these systems if the thermal paste deteriorates - and that is very likely after all this time, or in fact if it was never replaced after a RAM upgrade. Overheating can accelerate component deterioration and the oxidation of contact faces and connectors, so replacing RAM or a good clean up and reseating of modules and connectors can work wonders. But don't forget to replace the thermal paste when done!

PRAM batteries are readily obtainable from Amazon, as is the thermal paste of course.

I'm ready to swap out the HD in mine for an SSD also - I'm not all that interested in possible speed benefits, but at getting on for 20 years old, these hard drives are at elevated risk of failure. They run very quietly so it can be hard to tell if the drive has spun up, but it is also possible a stiction issue may be preventing the drive from reading in your first 'cold' bootups, and possibly inhibiting drive performance in subsequent attempts.

 

[liquidplace]

I would echo those thoughts on the RAM - it seems likely that at least one of the two modules may either be bad or not seating correctly. You would not see this reflected in the system profiler since any time you are able to access that, the system has already been able to address the RAM correctly during boot.

Some basic testing by pulling one RAM module at a time to see if the beeps continue when booting might help nail down which (or both) might be the problem.

I recently obtained a 17 inch G4 iLamp, which was known good previously, but produced three beeps when attempting to boot. I took it apart and examined the internal RAM module - the only one it had at the time. The end closest to the heat pipe looked quite discoloured, so I cleaned the contact faces with a soft pencil eraser and reseated it. I also replaced the PRAM battery since it is right there next to the RAM slot. After that, the system booted properly and has done since.

There are potential overheating issues with these systems if the thermal paste deteriorates - and that is very likely after all this time, or in fact if it was never replaced after a RAM upgrade. Overheating can accelerate component deterioration and the oxidation of contact faces and connectors, so replacing RAM or a good clean up and reseating of modules and connectors can work wonders. But don't forget to replace the thermal paste when done!

PRAM batteries are readily obtainable from Amazon, as is the thermal paste of course.

I'm ready to swap out the HD in mine for an SSD also - I'm not all that interested in possible speed benefits, but at getting on for 20 years old, these hard drives are at elevated risk of failure. They run very quietly so it can be hard to tell if the drive has spun up, but it is also possible a stiction issue may be preventing the drive from reading in your first 'cold' bootups, and possibly inhibiting drive performance in subsequent attempts.

Hi my friend, thank you for all the good hints!!!

Here's a new video where you can nicely hear all the sounds during the boot

http://www.liquidplace.com/imac/iMac_Boot_Sound.mp4

I think I will now buy the following things and clean everything up ....

Thermal paste

• Any advises? ;-)

SSD

• This one advised from a friend who successfully inserted it into his iBook G4
• https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07G3KRZBX...b9f740eb629d8&language=de_DE&ref_=as_li_ss_tl
• Do you know for what kind of mounting frame / adapter frame I have to look for the SSD?

PRAM batterie

• Any Amazon tips of a good one? ;-)
• Already found some vids on YT how to implement ....

New RAM modules

• Will try to use two 1GB modules to have 2 GB. Not officially supportetd by Apple but have heard that it will work.
• Any thoughts on that? Your opinion? ;-)
• Which one would work? Found that list ....https://everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/imac-g4-flat-panel-faq/imac-g4-how-to-upgrade-memory-ram.html

Thank you in advance for your help which is much appreciated

Have a great day

Micha

 

[za9ra22]

These are what I ordered from Amazon....

Thermal paste:

Noctua NT-H1 3.5g, Pro-Grade Thermal Compound Paste (3.5g)

Noctua’s NT-H1 is a renowned hybrid thermal compound that has received more than 150 awards and recommendations from international hardware websites and magazines. Thanks to its excellent performance, exceptional ease of use and outstanding long-term stability, it has become an established favour...

www.amazon.com

PRAM battery:

Xeno Energy XL-050F 1/2 AA 3.6V Lithium Battery

The Xeno XL-050F battery cell is specifically designed for long term applications at a high performance. XenoEnergy is a specialized company who develops and manufactures 3.6V Lithium Thionyl Chloride (Li-SOCl2) batteries. XenoEnergy Primary Lithium batteries are an important industrial and non-r...

www.amazon.com

For the SSD, don't forget that you will also need an IDE-SATA adapter, as well as an appropriate carrier for the SSD itself. That will bring your cost up a fair bit. Rather than take chances, I opted for the 120Gb at:

OWC SSD Upgrade Kits For iMac G4 2003

Get everything you need to upgrade your 2003 iMac G4 for a total system performance and capacity boost. All SSDs are backed by a lifetime warranty.

eshop.macsales.com

because it came with the adapter and carrier all in, and OWC (macsales) has a pretty good reputation for quality Mac support.

You will know this already of course, but the G4 iMac has two different RAM modules. The internal one, next to the PRAM battery on the motherboard is PC2700 184-pin and the external one (under the base plate) is PC2700 200-pin. The options for what I think your model is are listed on:

Memory Upgrades for iMac (1.25 GHz, 20-inch USB 2.0)

Easily find compatible Memory Upgrades for iMac (1.25 GHz, 20-inch USB 2.0).

eshop.macsales.com

My (17 inch) model is up to 1.5Gb RAM - 512Mb internal and 1Gb external modules - so I don't have personal experience with them running at 2Gb total, but I have seen users reporting that it works perfectly well, so there isn't any reason I know of not to.

Now to the noise you hear when booting, from the last video you posted.

Mine does this exact same noise too. That isn't the '3 beep' type of bootup tone that indicates a memory issue, because that is much deeper and 'tonal' than this.

To be honest I am not sure what it is, but I tend to think it likely to be the drive - and is, in fact, the reason I decided to replace the HD, because it sounded to me like it was probably failing, or soon would. In my case I get roughly the same result that you do - that there are more of these sounds when the system is cold than warm - and it does affect bootup time. The more beeps, the longer the boot.

The reason I think it may be the HD, and possibly stiction, is that I have a Zenith 286 DOS laptop amongst my old computers, and the HD on that occasionally sticks if it hasn't been booted for a while, and the resulting sound is not dissimilar. In the case of the Zenith, the drive has to be extracted and lightly tapped to free it off again, after which it will work quite happily for weeks or months.

On my iMac, these beeps were quite numerous at first - which was after the actual 3-beep bad-RAM tone and my cleaning and reseating of the internal module on the first boot attempt - but now, since the iMac is used every day, it only beeps like this two or three times each bootup. However, I won't know if it is the HD or not until after I replace it - and while I have the HD backed up to the SSD and it is ready to install, I'm waiting for a replacement DVD burner, since the original in the iMac isn't working, so that I only have to go in there once to get drive replacements done.

 

[CooperBox]

You've already been given some great advise which should help in getting the iMac up and running.
Regulars on this forum know that the G4 iMac is perhaps my favourite Mac of all times. I also have a 20" but somehow prefer the 17" USB2 model. Both have the maximum 2GB Ram installed.
Regarding RAM modules, the so-called 'user accessible' one inside the bottom plate is PC-2700 200pin SO-DIMM, and the other inside the bottom housing is PC-2700 184pin SDRAM.
My advise is once the Mac is opened, give everything a good clean, including the fan blades, but leave the original fan, installing another type will in all probability lead to unecessary problems. Leave well alone! As soon as these iMacs boot one can hear the fan running, it shouldn't be too loud but is by no means inaudible.
The PRAM battery is 3.6v and a common ref is SAFT LSG14250. Ensure you fit according to correct polarity position.
The Crucial SSD is a good choice. Also consider Samsung or SanDisk, I've used all three with no problems, much cheaper than OWC, and you get far more capacity for your money. My link HERE. I recommend the StarTech IDE/SATA adapter. Cheaper adapters are available but the StarTech is tried and tested. If the adapter has a jumper switch it should be set to 'Master'. Precise positioning of the SSD is important, otherwise if not firmly attached is could move slightly and trash your fan.
After the thorough internal cleaning, I suggest you repaste the cpu, my link HERE, and also both ends of the heatsink just prior to refitment of the lower housing.
Good luck. Let us know if all goes well.

 

[liquidplace]

Hey guys!!! ...

or to be clearer .... hey "FirDerrig33", "za9ra22" and "CooperBox!

I'm really happy cause of all you very good and perfect thoughts and hints! I appreciate that a lot.

After your answers I've already bought the thermal paste and the PRAM battery at Amazon a few seconds ago. Later on today I'll have a look at the SSD and RAM too ....

One last question regarding OS installation:

• The original OS of the iMac was 10.3.1 > I have the original DVDs.
• Then later on it was being updated with OS 10.5.8 Leopard. I have the original install DVD.
  I want to install the 10.5.8 Leopard on the new SSD.
• Anything to be aware of with that?
• Can I simply boot/install 10.5.8 from the new SSD after implemented?
• Or do I have to install 10.5.8 on the new SSD before via Firewire etc.?
• Or do I have to install the original 10.3.1 first and then upgrade that with the 10.5.8 DVD?

And of course I will come back to you here in the forum to let you know how it is going! ;-)

Thank you so much my friends.

I wish you all a great day today!

Cheers

Micha

 

[za9ra22]

The good news is that after installing the SSD in my G4 iMac today, the 'beeping' noise during bootups has gone. Thus, it was attributable to the drive, and perhaps indicative of an upcoming failure.

The bad news is that the inside of these things is very tight indeed, so getting the DVD/HD stack out was fiddly enough, but getting the replacement DVD drive and the SSD mounted in its drive carrier back in was a real problem, and took a bit of patience.

Bootup time and overall system performance is not greatly improved, though it does run more smoothly and a little more responsively - and it is certainly quite a lot quieter.

When disassembling it, I noted that the old DVD and HD drives were set to cable select, so I opted for that on the replacements too. And positioning of the SSD on top of the DVD drive is important, because there really isn't a lot of room to play with. Height isn't so much an issue because an SSD is a lot lower-profile than the original HD, but space for the IDE/SATA interface, plus cables is not plentiful.

But, it works - as demonstrated by the fact I'm posting this from it.

In terms of installing MacOS on the SSD, I must admit that I cheated a bit. I put the SSD in a 'toaster' (external docking station) and used SuperDuper! to back up/clone the HD. The free version of SuperDuper! works for this just fine. However, it should not be a problem with a legitimate install DVD to boot to that, and run the installer, to put a fresh copy of a valid MacOS on the new SSD.

My method worked perfectly, however, and of course gives me a duplicate of the original drive, including apps and data.

 

[liquidplace]

The good news is that after installing the SSD in my G4 iMac today, the 'beeping' noise during bootups has gone. Thus, it was attributable to the drive, and perhaps indicative of an upcoming failure.

The bad news is that the inside of these things is very tight indeed, so getting the DVD/HD stack out was fiddly enough, but getting the replacement DVD drive and the SSD mounted in its drive carrier back in was a real problem, and took a bit of patience.

Bootup time and overall system performance is not greatly improved, though it does run more smoothly and a little more responsively - and it is certainly quite a lot quieter.

When disassembling it, I noted that the old DVD and HD drives were set to cable select, so I opted for that on the replacements too. And positioning of the SSD on top of the DVD drive is important, because there really isn't a lot of room to play with. Height isn't so much an issue because an SSD is a lot lower-profile than the original HD, but space for the IDE/SATA interface, plus cables is not plentiful.

But, it works - as demonstrated by the fact I'm posting this from it.

In terms of installing MacOS on the SSD, I must admit that I cheated a bit. I put the SSD in a 'toaster' (external docking station) and used SuperDuper! to back up/clone the HD. The free version of SuperDuper! works for this just fine. However, it should not be a problem with a legitimate install DVD to boot to that, and run the installer, to put a fresh copy of a valid MacOS on the new SSD.

My method worked perfectly, however, and of course gives me a duplicate of the original drive, including apps and data.

Thank you for your good tips my friend. The links to the OWC stuff are basically great, but with shipping and tax It would be bit more expensive cause I'm living in germany ;-) I will have to look for alternatives on amazon or so without tax ;-)

 

[za9ra22]

Thank you for your good tips my friend. The links to the OWC stuff are basically great, but with shipping and tax It would be bit more expensive cause I'm living in germany ;-) I will have to look for alternatives on amazon or so without tax ;-)

The OWC drive wasn't exactly the foolproof option I'd expected from the description on their site. While it did come in a carrier that fitted exactly in the drive mounts in the iMac, that's for a standard size drive anyway, so almost any adapter/carrier would fit. And the OWC unit didn't have screw holes to match the standard mounts anyway, so it could only be fixed with two screws, not 4, and even then, not in the exact correct place, so the ribbon cable ended up barely long enough when it was being reassembled.

I'd say CooperBox was likely right, and that an SSD from almost anywhere reputable would be good (and cheaper), but don't forget the Ice/SATA adapter!

Absent a mounting adapter, since SSDs are so light and this assembly won't be under any strain inside the iMac, it could possible be fastened down with double-sided tape. Just try a test fit of the whole thing back into the iMac before you're ready to complete the job, because there really is n't any spare space inside there!

 

[liquidplace]

The OWC drive wasn't exactly the foolproof option I'd expected from the description on their site. While it did come in a carrier that fitted exactly in the drive mounts in the iMac, that's for a standard size drive anyway, so almost any adapter/carrier would fit. And the OWC unit didn't have screw holes to match the standard mounts anyway, so it could only be fixed with two screws, not 4, and even then, not in the exact correct place, so the ribbon cable ended up barely long enough when it was being reassembled.

I'd say CooperBox was likely right, and that an SSD from almost anywhere reputable would be good (and cheaper), but don't forget the Ice/SATA adapter!

Absent a mounting adapter, since SSDs are so light and this assembly won't be under any strain inside the iMac, it could possible be fastened down with double-sided tape. Just try a test fit of the whole thing back into the iMac before you're ready to complete the job, because there really is n't any spare space inside there!

Wohooo!!! ;-) I've ordered now SSD, mounting adapter, IDE/SATA adapter and RAM modules at Amazon and will let you know how it's going in the next days.

 

[za9ra22]

That all looks good! Good luck!!

Don't forget the thermal paste too, of course.

 

[liquidplace]

That all looks good! Good luck!!

Don't forget the thermal paste too, of course.

Have already bought the thermal paste and the battery you mentioned ;-)

 

[FirDerrig33]

Wohooo!!! ;-) I've ordered now SSD, mounting adapter, IDE/SATA adapter and RAM modules at Amazon and will let you know how it's going in the next days.

Have already bought the thermal paste and the battery you mentioned ;-)

I think this is awesome! PPC Macs are really fun and enjoyable and getting them working is such a great experience. And those machines are still really capable and useful so I can see it being used for some time!

 

[Teekaskuaa]

Have already bought the thermal paste and the battery you mentioned ;-)

Hello! And at the end what happened, if it worked? I just bought an iMac g4 and it also has the 3 beep I already bought it battery, thermal paste and new ram memories from the a-tech brand but it still doesn't work 😔

 

[3922434]

Uhhh didn’t read the whole thread cause it looks like a novel ain’t nobody got no time for that 😎…just kidding…not sure if someone gave you the answer yet I’ll read through but the issue your optical drive. The heads align themselves at boot when Mac OS detects your hardware for changes and if the head mechanism in the optical is stuck due to age and not having not enough lubricant on the metal bar it uses to move back and fourth you’ll hear that sound it was really common in power Macs and iMacs in 2004 and I think apple had a quality control program way back but that beep/buzzing is not a hardware check of any kind or a sign of bad memory it’s 100% your optical drive

 

[3922434]

I actually answered this same question a ways back on Reddit he posted a video and same situation as your experiencing https://reddit.com/r/mac/s/feRzfH190A. He replaced it and it was resolved. Have a good day