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Yes, that is pretty much exactly the excuse Apple gave. It was pretty clear within a year that the 2013 Mac Pro was the wrong machine for the Pro market, so why did they wait 6 years to replace it?
They had to wait a little before knowing it was a flop.

First, they bet everything in their dual gpu strategy, but not many software developers jumped on that boat. They had to give them time to adapt to such architecture before knowing it was not going to work.

Then they had to update the tcMP, which they couldn’t because the thermal envelope was so constrained because of the design, it was impossible to bring more powerful components inside.

After two or three years it was obvious the trashcan didn’t meet their goals, and it never will, so they had to think if they were going to release a new mac pro or end the line, and in the former case, start working on it. Both takes time, taking the decission and designing a new machine.

TL;DR, they didn’t wait 6 years to replace it, even though 6 years went by between both models.
 
Slapping an eGPU into a Mac mini back then got you nowhere near the performance of a iMac Pro, I also doubt it would have been cheaper when you considered all the peripherals

Take a chill pill bro - it suited me for a point in time and the concept of being able to have an upgradable GPU was kinda cool (particularly when the Mac Pro of the day didn't have one!)

I work in Australian dollars and there was a massive saving for me. Off memory my Mac Mini with a Vega 64 and eGPU enclosure was about $2000 all up. Whereas the iMac Pro was something like $7000.

The iMac Pro was definitely faster (eGPUs give you a ~20-30% performance bottleneck). However the end outcome of my $2000 Mac was that I could play games like The Witcher 3 with all the settings cranked up, using a relatively affordable Mac.

Having a 2012 Mac Pro removed the bottleneck and was known to be a really sweet rig for many years beyond its lifetime as you could get them for ~$100-$200 on the secondhand market (mine was free).
 
Still using mine from 2017. A wasted Xeon processor inside a laptop... Overheating is soo bad it was practically useless - kept idling all cores to 1Ghz for anything. I was about to smash it to pieces and decided for an unorthodox approach. I opened the top so heat could escape.



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Apple is missing the boat here. The Market wants a Pro iMac.

“The market” mostly wants laptops. For the few who still want a desktop, they tend to have specialist needs, and “but I still want the screen tied to it” usually ain’t it.

The Mac Studio still exists because it can fit a SoC that would require a laptop to be too fat.

The Mac mini still exists because it’s cheap, and because its size gives it versatile use cases.

The Mac Pro still exist because some people need internal expansion. (And it’s a poor fit for Apple’s SoC approach.)

The 24-inch iMac, well, it’s very nice to look at. If you have a living room or reception desk, sure, that’ll work. Even then, it’s not great for kids, who need something to carry to school, nor for office workers, who need something to carry to the meeting room.

Most people just get a laptop. Higher-end users connect one or two displays through a dock. It’s versatile yet quite powerful.
 
While it did not have a slot to easily access the memory like the 27-inch iMac, the processor, memory, and storage were not soldered in place and could easily be removed if the display was disassembled.

Great! Just unglue the expensive display and partially disassemble your $5K+ computer (voiding the warranty), to get to the RAM and proprietary (!) SSD slots. How convenient. I wonder why companies without captive audiences don't make pro desktops this way?
 
They had to wait a little before knowing it was a flop.

First, they bet everything in their dual gpu strategy, but not many software developers jumped on that boat. They had to give them time to adapt to such architecture before knowing it was not going to work.

No. They just wanted to get rid of the Pro tower, and tried to turn it into an appliance, a la the Studio. The design was not borne of any insight into dual-GPU being the future. Two small GPUs simply helped distribute the heat on a chimney heatsink, enabling the compact cylinder design they'd fallen in love with to work.

Having tried to force a design on a Pro market that wasn't interested, they tried to wait them out, hoping their customers would just give up and buy it anyway. When it became apparent they were moving to Windows PCs instead, they panicked and held the 'mea culpa' event. Then started work the next day on a new Mac Pro, that despite implying to the access media was just around the corner, took a further 2.5+ years to come out.

Plus the US-based production line for the 6,1 was likely quite expensive. Given the low sales of the MP generally, Apple were probably loathe to just write it off after a couple of years. They probably seriously considered cancelling the whole product line instead.

Then they had to update the tcMP, which they couldn’t because the thermal envelope was so constrained because of the design, it was impossible to bring more powerful components inside.

A spectacular unforced error, based on taking their customers for granted, and putting the reduction of Apple's costs before the needs of their buyers. Plus post-Steve, trying too hard to show the world their assess could still 'innovate'.

After two or three years it was obvious the trashcan didn’t meet their goals, and it never will, so they had to think if they were going to release a new mac pro or end the line, and in the former case, start working on it. Both takes time, taking the decission and designing a new machine.

Yep. Though they could have released it much sooner had they just kept it simple and updated the cMP design. All that 'rethinking the Pro tower' deep dive was a waste of time, ultimately, given they discontinued the 7,1 after one generation, replacing it with a pale imitation that can't even take GPUs. The whole thing is a testament to ego and hubris; having to turn everything into a design statement, rather than just giving people practical tools in a timely fashion.

TL;DR, they didn’t wait 6 years to replace it, even though 6 years went by between both models.

This is splitting hairs. Obviously there's a lead time to manufacturing, but the bottom line is that after 6 years, the Mac Pro was horribly outdated - and over priced.
 
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This is splitting hairs. Obviously there's a lead time to manufacturing, but the bottom line is that after 6 years, the Mac Pro was horribly outdated - and over priced.
I’m not arguing that, it was disgraceful taking so long to update the mac pro. Even more so considering the 2012 model was essentially the 2010 with current (at the time) processors. And of course it was borderline criminal to ask that much money for what was essentially a 7 years old xeon and two midrange gaming cards.

But it didn’t take them 6 years to design, produce and start selling the 2019 pro, maybe it was 3 years mourning the stupidity of the rest of the world for not realizing how great the tcMP was (I don’t know what it was, but it definitely wasn’t an adequate replacement for the cMP) and 3 years getting to work on the 2019.
 
No. They just wanted to get rid of the Pro tower, and tried to turn it into an appliance, a la the Studio. The design was not borne of any insight into dual-GPU being the future.

It absolutely was. It came a few years after OpenCL, with the hype around GPGPU increasing.

However, devs largely stuck to CUDA.
 
It absolutely was. It came a few years after OpenCL, with the hype around GPGPU increasing.

However, devs largely stuck to CUDA.

Why not have space for two large GPUs then? And if they really cared about their customers, Nvidia GPUs.

But that would have precluded making a compact tube, which they'd already set their heart on.
 
Well, it was the time when Apple lied in every interview to every product.
It was the time, when Apple thought they could rule the world just with the iPhone and Ives design.

Since then they learned. The Laptops have even HDMI again.
The HDMI port is limited to 1080p, right? Seems like apple still wants you to go usb-c or at least an adaptor for everything else.
 
The HDMI port on MBPs? 8K @ 60 Hz or 4K at 240 Hz.

Airs (sadly) don't have one.

Thanks, that’s pretty good and covers most monitors. I should have looked it up before posting, but for some reason, I seem to recall having read somewhere that the HDMI port of the MBP had been limited due to bandwidth constraints or something and that impression just stuck.
 
Yes it would’ve been cheaper than a tower with those specs, but then why would it make sense to have those specs on the base model? Why not offer the tower with a single CPU / GPU configuration? Apple had done both single and dual processor towers for years.

No, the 2013 Mac Pro wouldn’t have succeeded if sold alongside a full tower Mac Pro, and it wouldn’t have been cheaper either, at least not cheaper than a single processor / single GPU base model tower. It would’ve just been the G4 Cube all over again.

Why is the current Mac Studio succeeding when sold along side a Mac Pro tower with even closer specs? Isn't it just the G4 Cube all over again?
 
Thanks, that’s pretty good and covers most monitors. I should have looked it up before posting, but for some reason, I seem to recall having read somewhere that the HDMI port of the MBP had been limited due to bandwidth constraints or something and that impression just stuck.

I vaguely recall some disappointment with the M1 Pro's HDMI, but even that at least had 4K @ 60 Hz.

So I guess 1080p would've been a while ago.

Why is the current Mac Studio succeeding when sold along side a Mac Pro tower with even closer specs? Isn't it just the G4 Cube all over again?

The Mac Pro starts at $5,000 more. If you configure them similarly, there's still a $3,000 gap.
 
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The Mac Pro starts at $5,000 more. If you configure them similarly, there's still a $3,000 gap.

Plus, unlike the G4 tower, which offered dual CPUs and a choice of graphics cards, the AS MP has the exact same specs as the Studio. Just with about 4 PCIe lanes fanned out to a load of slots.
 
The current M2 Ultra MacPro can be configured to only 192GB of ram due to the Ultra chip limitations. That is more than inadequate for many Pro applications.

Thus the rumors of 512GB of RAM coming in 2025.

The prior Intel processor units could have many times that amount of memory which helped push prices above $50,000 which was okay in that specific industry.

So I wonder how many years out it will be before the memory can reach those levels?
 
So I wonder how many years out it will be before the memory can reach those levels?

The ability of certain Xeons to address 1.5TB of RAM is probably more relevant to server roles. It's unlikely many Mac Pros were specced to that level. It was more a by-product of the top end CPU options.
 
The current M2 Ultra MacPro can be configured to only 192GB of ram due to the Ultra chip limitations. That is more than inadequate for many Pro applications.

Some, sure. I wouldn’t say many.

So I wonder how many years out it will be before the memory can reach those levels?

1.5 TiB? That’ll be quite a few generations out, unless Apple adopts a hybrid approach where you can add DIMMs (which run slower, and which perhaps you’d opt apps into).
 
No. They just wanted to get rid of the Pro tower, and tried to turn it into an appliance, a la the Studio. The design was not borne of any insight into dual-GPU being the future. Two small GPUs simply helped distribute the heat on a chimney heatsink, enabling the compact cylinder design they'd fallen in love with to work.

You obviously dont remember the multi-GPU frenzy around then when GPGPU workloads were getting popular…
 
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You obviously dont remember the multi-GPU frenzy around then when GPGPU workloads were getting popular…

As I said in a previous post, if that were Apple's main design goal for the 6,1, it would have had a big case with room for two or more big GPUs. If GPU compute were the future, why limit the design to two mid-range cards, with middling cooling? GPUs in the 6,1 had an appalling failure rate, largely through overheating.

Apple were clearly looking to downsize the Mac Pro as their #1 priority. Probably so they could fit 8 boxes into the space of 1 cMP box in the store room, plus have cheaper material costs, shipping costs and so on. These were slow-selling computers, and the choice was likely either just discontinue the line all together, or refactor it so it's worth Apple's while to sell it.

The 'GPU compute' thing was just a post-hoc justification for using a configuration that provided the packaging they wanted. Apple may have even talked themselves into believing it.
 
Dammit I loved my 27” iMac (non-pro). Such a superb size and design, especially with upgradeable RAM. It amazes me Apple dropped it altogether.

If a replacement 27”-32” ever released I’d be very tempted even though my needs have now changed.
 
As I said in a previous post, if that were Apple's main design goal for the 6,1, it would have had a big case with room for two or more big GPUs.

No, that's taking it ad absurdum.

That's like arguing "oh, if Apple wanted the Mac mini to be truly mini, why didn't they make it even smaller by giving it a lower-end SoC and less RAM and storage?" Because everything is a tradeoff is why.

Yes, they could've made the 2013 Mac Pro larger. But they wanted to make a high-end Mac based on the assumptions they made for the time: fairly fast Xeon CPU, two GPUs because GPGPU seemed to become a big thing, and a focus on external expansion using Thunderbolt.

If GPU compute were the future, why limit the design to two mid-range cards, with middling cooling?

Why not give each motherboard 96 RAM slots?

Probably so they could fit 8 boxes into the space of 1 cMP box in the store room, plus have cheaper material costs, shipping costs and so on.

This is a very silly argument. You could argue for the same reason that they'll discontinue the 13-inch iPad Pro.

Heck, if that were it, why follow it up with, of all things, the 27-inch iMac Pro, which takes up way more space?

These were slow-selling computers, and the choice was likely either just discontinue the line all together, or refactor it so it's worth Apple's while to sell it.

Well, yes? And it turned out that some of the choices they made weren't quite it.

The 'GPU compute' thing was just a post-hoc justification

No, it was a deliberate design choice.
 
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All I can say is that I got a hella amount of work done with mine, 2017 through 2023. It never gave any trouble at all and although just an 8 core / 64 / 2 TB it chewed up my Nikon D850 raws and did great with InDesign.

I moved to a Studio.
 
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