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Will you be getting the iMac Pro?

  • Yes it's what i've been waiting for

    Votes: 22 36.7%
  • No - i'm happy with my consumer friendly iMac

    Votes: 38 63.3%

  • Total voters
    60
Nerdynerdynerdy, thank for an excellent post. Refreshing with someone that does not mix professional needs with nerdy wants. Macrumour is populated by far too many hardware enthusiasts and apply their view to any professional settings.

I cannot see that the iMac pro will be a failure as it strengthen the already popular iMac line. Just like the 2013 Mac Pro, the iMac Pros will not be popular with the hardware enthusiasts but possibly popular with enthusiasts and professionals that like to tinker with what really matters, namely the digital product such as video clips, 3D renders etc.

Will it be more cost efficient to buy iMac every three years or a iMac Pro/Mac Pro every six to ten years? I do not know. Personally, I rather buy expensive/powerful (at the time of purchase) machines less frequent.

Only a month left (hopefully) to some more information...
 
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It certainly doesn't mean that Apple shouldn't also offer machines that crank out the VFX power that some users need. They have the resources to develop them, and hopefully the new Mac Pro will address this.

But to say that Apple aren't present in the serious production world, and are all about social media videos is blatantly false.

Another point people like to bring up is the cost of these machines. The cost of an iMac Pro should really be covered by a week or two of invoices it generates; if the company isn't bringing in that level of income, then cheaper machines probably do need to be considered..

But the higher cost of Apple machines is also mitigated by better resale value.

Most people who complain about the cost of Apple Pro machines are hobbyists, or accountants who don't care what machines their creatives use.
 
It certainly doesn't mean that Apple shouldn't also offer machines that crank out the VFX power that some users need. They have the resources to develop them, and hopefully the new Mac Pro will address this.

But to say that Apple aren't present in the serious production world, and are all about social media videos is blatantly false.

Another point people like to bring up is the cost of these machines. The cost of an iMac Pro should really be covered by a week or two of invoices it generates; if the company isn't bringing in that level of income, then cheaper machines probably do need to be considered..

But the higher cost of Apple machines is also mitigated by better resale value.

Most people who complain about the cost of Apple Pro machines are hobbyists, or accountants who don't care what machines their creatives use.
I agree, a beefier MP is also needed in their lineup.
 
Quicksync is not a developer controlled function, only the bitrate is adjustable pretty much...

As you can see from this white paper ("Intel QuickSync Video and FFmpeg"), Quick Sync Video (QSV) has both adjustable quality settings and adjustable bit rate. The paper discusses how using a higher bitrate is required to compensate if a faster, less compute-intensive QSV preset is chosen by the developer: https://www.intel.com/content/dam/w...puting-quicksync-video-ffmpeg-white-paper.pdf

You may be thinking of older versions of Quick Sync which exposed less control to the developer. This paper discusses some of the improvements in newer versions of Quick Sync: ("Intel Quick Sync Video Technology on Intel Iris Graphics and Intel HD Graphics family -- Flexible Transcode Performance and Quality"): hp Intel® Quick Sync Video Tec nology on Intel® Iris™ Graphics ...

But the main point is whether the QSV preset used by FCPX 10.3.4 creates a visually lower quality image vs software encoding. See below.

As far as my test, I used the Disney intro with the train in HD to see pixilations & blocking....If I recall right, the blocking on dark scenes were handle better than quicksync & the windows were just slightly more disfigured with quick sync...

Instead of using a Disney intro of unknown pedigree, if you use an industry-standard encoding sequence such as those mentioned in the above paper you'll get more representative results.

Below is are two frame grabs of the industry-standard encoding sequence "crowd_run" which was converted from uncompressed YCbCr data to ProRes 422HQ via ffmpeg, then imported to FCPX 10.3.4 and exported as H264 1080p using both Quick Sync (FCPX "fast") and without Quick Sync (FCPX "better quality"). The frame grab was from QT10 and exported from Preview as PNG. It would be interesting if anyone can see the difference between these two:

https://joema.smugmug.com/Video-Tests/Quick-Sync-vs-Software-Encoding-Test/n-CksJjj/

If anyone wants to test this themselves, the original YCbCr video files can be downloaded from the location listed in the above paper.

If anyone wants to see the two video files encoded with and without Quick Sync from FCPX 10.3.4, they are here. You will need to download and play them locally to assess the relative quality of each. As I previously said, I don't see a significant difference.

Quick Sync encoded: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2lll0sueepi4uj6/Crowd_runQSV.mp4?dl=0

Software encoded: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jy4outui6jasmm5/Crowd_runHQ.mp4?dl=0
 
As you can see from this white paper ("Intel QuickSync Video and FFmpeg"), Quick Sync Video (QSV) has both adjustable quality settings and adjustable bit rate. The paper discusses how using a higher bitrate is required to compensate if a faster, less compute-intensive QSV preset is chosen by the developer: https://www.intel.com/content/dam/w...puting-quicksync-video-ffmpeg-white-paper.pdf

You may be thinking of older versions of Quick Sync which exposed less control to the developer. This paper discusses some of the improvements in newer versions of Quick Sync: ("Intel Quick Sync Video Technology on Intel Iris Graphics and Intel HD Graphics family -- Flexible Transcode Performance and Quality"): hp Intel® Quick Sync Video Tec nology on Intel® Iris™ Graphics ...

But the main point is whether the QSV preset used by FCPX 10.3.4 creates a visually lower quality image vs software encoding. See below.



Instead of using a Disney intro of unknown pedigree, if you use an industry-standard encoding sequence such as those mentioned in the above paper you'll get more representative results.

Below is are two frame grabs of the industry-standard encoding sequence "crowd_run" which was converted from uncompressed YCbCr data to ProRes 422HQ via ffmpeg, then imported to FCPX 10.3.4 and exported as H264 1080p using both Quick Sync (FCPX "fast") and without Quick Sync (FCPX "better quality"). The frame grab was from QT10 and exported from Preview as PNG. It would be interesting if anyone can see the difference between these two:

https://joema.smugmug.com/Video-Tests/Quick-Sync-vs-Software-Encoding-Test/n-CksJjj/

If anyone wants to test this themselves, the original YCbCr video files can be downloaded from the location listed in the above paper.

If anyone wants to see the two versions encoded with and without Quick Sync from FCPX 10.3.4, they are here. You will need to download and play them locally to assess the relative quality of each. As I previously said, I don't see a significant difference.

Quick Sync encoded: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2lll0sueepi4uj6/Crowd_runQSV.mp4?dl=0

Software encoded: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jy4outui6jasmm5/Crowd_runHQ.mp4?dl=0

I'm aware of the adjustable bitrate & quality settings, but I'm referring to the rest of the settings that intel set themselves:
Reference fames, B-Frames, P-Frames, Transformations, etc, that's all fixed to intel & makes a significant difference, especially with compatibility for certain devices.

The scene doesn't work well at all for building the settings, the source photo shows it being too blurry in the distance. The idea is to have a perfectly sharp image & the let the encoder compress it. What should be a perfectly sharp window could become blurry, or jagged. Looking at the color transitions also shows how well a encoder does.
 
This is overstating things a bit.

I agree that FCP is not extensively used in Film and TV and high-end VFX is pretty much PC only.

But Macs are very much in use in the TV world, and I'm talking about top-rating and fast-turnaround TV, not little cable shows.

I would say 50% of the facilities I freelance at have Avid Media Composer running on iMacs, the other 50% Dell/HP workstations. Five or six years ago all those Avid stations were on a PC, so Apple have done something right.

Nowhere, anywhere I have ever worked use custom built nerd-fantasy gaming-spec computers.

My own small studio running Avid is all on Mac. I like the way the computers look and operate, and don't have time to learn to troubleshoot Windows and the various PC driver issues that go with that.

Most creative tasks are not testing the hardware at maximum capacity all day long. There are usually many hours of tinkering and thinking and experimenting at proxy resolution, followed by some render time where people make a coffee, take lunch or wait until the morning. If that's not appropriate for a deadline, more machines are bought, more staff are put on, or the schedule accommodates the time required.

I actually find that smaller facilities tend to have more high-spec machines than big ones. The big facilities throw more machines at the task - i.e. dedicated ingest and transcoding machines, render farms, online suites.

Maximum resolution footage is really only used at the very end when all the creative decisions have been made and approved on the proxy footage.

Film and TV workflows have been like this for decades.

Yeah I work at a high end commercial post house. All Mac.. Edit Suites are Avid, BlackMagic Resolve color theatre and Autodesk Flame for compositing. The reason we are still on Mac(ASIDE FROM FLAME) is ProRes and the the Apple Ascetics, and build quality. We use a vented machine room to house all the hardware, but build quality has always been important.

I have also worked at some high end vfx studios in LA, Comp was all NUKE on Linux and CG was mixture of Windows and Linux.. BTW in comp you use "Maximum resolution footage." You just proxy in your comps if you need, but you will always use your source footage. Editorial is different which I think you are referring too. Open NUKE sometime and check it out.

I am not sure what point your arguing, but I have worked at VFX houses in LA and worked on Davinci resolve systems that are specked like "custom built nerd-fantasy gaming-spec computers" These are usually CUDA monsters that are similar to high end gaming rigs.

I don't think you have worked at the same places I have.. Walk into company 3, digital domain and rhythm and hughes, you will find some of these computers.

Also a lot of the Premiere CC freelancers I know that are tech savvy are building "custom built nerd-fantasy gaming-spec computers" for editorial and comp. It has been that way for a while, when Scratch first started making waves in Color Grading those where the computers you bought to run Scratch.. High end Gaming rigs.
 
...The scene doesn't work well at all for building the settings, the source photo shows it being too blurry in the distance. The idea is to have a perfectly sharp image & the let the encoder compress it. What should be a perfectly sharp window could become blurry, or jagged. Looking at the color transitions also shows how well a encoder does.

That is an industry-standard encoding sequence, commonly used for validation. However I exported several other standard encoding tests using both Quick Sync and software encoding from FCPX 10.3.4 on an i7-7700K (Kaby Lake) CPU.

In none of these do I see evidence that Quick Sync as implemented by FCPX 10.3.4 on a late-generation CPU produces "low quality" results as compared with software encoding from FCPX. Any readers may wish to examine the below frame grabs and videos themselves:

Frame grabs: https://joema.smugmug.com/Video-Tests/Quick-Sync-vs-Software-Encoding-Test/n-CksJjj/

Video files encoded from FCPX with and without Quick Sync: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/e6y0srui5vrlsva/AADHOLjViQxaS1A-OIgQNGTja?dl=0

In case anyone has lost the purpose of this discussion, it's possible that the Xeon-based iMac Pro will not have Quick Sync, which makes a huge performance difference when encoding or decoding H264 or H265 video.

This would matter less if Quick Sync as implemented by FCPX on a late-generation Intel "Core-series" CPU produced "low quality" results. However that does not appear the case from the above tests.

We will know pretty soon whether the iMac Pro has a modified Xeon-W with Quick Sync, or FCPX has been upgraded to use AMD's GPU-hosted encoding hardware called UVD and VCE, or whether the iMac Pro has no hardware-accelerated video encoding at all.

Mac users running Premiere Pro are not affected by this because Adobe has never supported Quick Sync on the Mac version of Premiere. So if the iMac Pro doesn't have Quick Sync they won't notice the difference since they never had this capability.
 
That is an industry-standard encoding sequence, commonly used for validation. However I exported several other standard encoding tests using both Quick Sync and software encoding from FCPX 10.3.4 on an i7-7700K (Kaby Lake) CPU.

In none of these do I see evidence that Quick Sync as implemented by FCPX 10.3.4 on a late-generation CPU produces "low quality" results as compared with software encoding from FCPX. Any readers may wish to examine the below frame grabs and videos themselves:

Frame grabs: https://joema.smugmug.com/Video-Tests/Quick-Sync-vs-Software-Encoding-Test/n-CksJjj/

Video files encoded from FCPX with and without Quick Sync: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/e6y0srui5vrlsva/AADHOLjViQxaS1A-OIgQNGTja?dl=0

In case anyone has lost the purpose of this discussion, it's possible that the Xeon-based iMac Pro will not have Quick Sync, which makes a huge performance difference when encoding or decoding H264 or H265 video.

This would matter less if Quick Sync as implemented by FCPX on a late-generation Intel "Core-series" CPU produced "low quality" results. However that does not appear the case from the above tests.

We will know pretty soon whether the iMac Pro has a modified Xeon-W with Quick Sync, or FCPX has been upgraded to use AMD's GPU-hosted encoding hardware called UVD and VCE, or whether the iMac Pro has no hardware-accelerated video encoding at all.

Mac users running Premiere Pro are not affected by this because Adobe has never supported Quick Sync on the Mac version of Premiere. So if the iMac Pro doesn't have Quick Sync they won't notice the difference since they never had this capability.

Your source quality is not quite good enough, but the dock flight video actually shows what I'm talking about in quick sync: the splashing water is what you need to focus on. You lose some fidelity & the water seems to blur together. I would show you my source material, but I'm stuck on a 2011 MBP & it can't play the source material correctly due to high resolution. The best I can do is point you to one of videos online to try to recode:
http://4ksamples.com/4k-uhd-fireworks-sample/

This has a high enough resolution to actually see particles with only a few pixels in size zoomed in. The darks are smooth enough & you have the source material graininess. The focus level is high enough to see sharp edges on far away events & there's enough partial events to challenge the compressor. You'll need an encoder that allows for tuning x265 correctly, or you can try 264 against 264's iteration of quick sync. It'll do the same thing.

I should also say that my goal is to keep the high quality image at a level where the human eye can't recognize the difference between the source material & a compressed version when watching on a TV. I scrutinize this by zooming in on before & after images to see the detailed differences. At that level, QS fails. Again, that's with a higher bitrate & tuning the detailed settings of both 264 or 265. You can actually play around with these on handbrake & you don't even have to mess with the advanced settings of 264/265 to see the difference between QS. Its possible that your bitrate itself may swap the quality ends, & given the lower quality final images I've seen you post, I can understand that QS could do better as the images for both are severely pixilated.
 
Another point people like to bring up is the cost of these machines. The cost of an iMac Pro should really be covered by a week or two of invoices it generates; if the company isn't bringing in that level of income, then cheaper machines probably do need to be considered..

I think if it's covered by a month's salary, it's still 1/60 of company earnings over 5 years, which isn't so bad for a machine that runs your entire business. The iMac Pro also gives the potential for company growth too, and so that figure will likely become a smaller fraction over time, which is great!
 
Your source quality is not quite good enough, but the dock flight video actually shows what I'm talking about in quick sync: the splashing water is what you need to focus on. You lose some fidelity & the water seems to blur together...

I don't see a significant difference. The issue isn't whether *you* see the difference in a frame grab, it's whether the *audience* sees the difference in the video presentation under normal viewing conditions.

Traditionally, Quick Sync might not be used for final encoding of video files for direct presentation in a high fidelity environment. During post production there are typically *many* test encodes before the final one. Quick Sync is good for that. It is also good for web uploads where the material is re-encoded anyway outside your control. However I cannot see a significant quality difference when FCPX 10.3.4 encodes via Quick Sync or software, except that Quick Sync is a lot faster. From these results it appears Quick Sync encoding from FCPX on a late-generation CPU is good enough for most final presentations.

If anyone thinks they can see a difference, please look at the below frame grabs and (more importantly) the video files.

....The best I can do is point you to one of videos online to try to recode: http://4ksamples.com/4k-uhd-fireworks-sample/

This has a high enough resolution to actually see particles with only a few pixels in size zoomed in. The darks are smooth enough & you have the source material graininess. The focus level is high enough to see sharp edges on far away events & there's enough partial events to challenge the compressor....

I downloaded the fireworks video. It was UHD 4k encoded H264 at 95 mbps. I'm not sure that's the best encode test because it is already highly compressed. If you want to test encode quality the original should ideally be uncompressed. That is why those industry-standard clips are uncompressed YCbCr. Otherwise you're not sure what's happening on the decode side. However, after importing to FCPX I exported the 4k fireworks video four ways:

(1) Quick Sync at 1080p
(2) Software encoding at 1080p
(3) Quick Sync at UHD 4k
(4) Software encoding at UHD 4k

For any of these I don't see a significant difference between the Quick Sync and software-encoded versions at the same resolution. However anybody is welcome to examine these. The files and frame grabs are here:

Frame grabs: https://joema.smugmug.com/Video-Tests/Quick-Sync-vs-Software-Encoding-Test/n-CksJjj/

Encoded video files: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/e6y0srui5vrlsva/AADHOLjViQxaS1A-OIgQNGTja?dl=0

Also you are focusing exclusively on the *encode* side. FCPX also uses Quick Sync on the *decode* side, which is why a 2017 iMac 27 can transcode from H264 to ProRes proxy 3.5x faster than a 12-core D700 Mac Pro. In this case there is no possible quality issue with Quick Sync encoding -- the output is ProRes. Quick Sync can only be used on long GOP formats like H264 and H265. Yet the iMac is 3.5x faster than the Mac Pro because of Quick Sync accelerated *decoding*. This cannot be controlled or adjusted.

To summarize, after running all of the above tests I don't see any basis for characterizing Quick Sync encoding as "low quality", at least as implemented by FCPX and on a late-generation Intel Core-series CPU. If you are talking about some other encoding software or an older CPU with an early version of Quick Sync, maybe that doesn't work as well or the developers cannot figure out how to use Quick Sync properly. Certainly Adobe cannot despite Quick Sync being seven years old. But it's irrelevant to current or future machines like the iMac Pro. Users of software which never had Quick Sync such as Premiere won't notice the difference. If there are some utilities out there which do a poor job of encoding with Quick Sync, users probably don't rely on that anyway, so losing what they are not using won't be noticed either.

But since FCPX's high quality use of Quick Sync is a distinguishing competitive feature, if the iMac Pro did not have that it would lower the FCPX performance advantage vs other video software.
 
iMac Pro will be faster at EVERYTHING including Calculator and Text Edit.

Source: Tim Cook

Don't forget emoji!!!


My predictions for the iMac Pro Press Release..

Tim Cook on stage.. "You can Emoji faster than any other computer. Any other computer on the Planet!!" The Audience applauds and cheers.. "Yes that means even the Poop Emjoi!" The audience stands up and throws all their money on the stage. Tim Cook grabs a cannon and starts shooting Emoji Movie Collectible Figures at the audience.. The Crowd goes wild. A riot ensues. Apple stock quadruples in value. Everything is how it should be and the world is at peace once again.
 
Don't forget emoji!!!


My predictions for the iMac Pro Press Release..

Tim Cook on stage.. "You can Emoji faster than any other computer. Any other computer on the Planet!!" The Audience applauds and cheers.. "Yes that means even the Poop Emjoi!" The audience stands up and throws all their money on the stage. Tim Cook grabs a cannon and starts shooting Emoji Movie Collectible Figures at the audience.. The Crowd goes wild. A riot ensues. Apple stock quadruples in value. Everything is how it should be and the world is at peace once again.

Hilarious! That said, I really do wonder why you're on a board like this... you clearly hate Apple at the minute! :) It's great that you still post here though - it's good to have people challenging Apple so we can see more worldly view, whether your views are right or wrong - it doesn't matter so much.
 
Hilarious! That said, I really do wonder why you're on a board like this... you clearly hate Apple at the minute! :) It's great that you still post here though - it's good to have people challenging Apple so we can see more worldly view, whether your views are right or wrong - it doesn't matter so much.

I am a Apple Zealot and I have been since the 90's when I got a used SE/30, I have been using Apple computers for making media in Film, TV and Broadcast since then. I was huge Final Cut Pro and Apple Shake Proponent and used to teach people how to switch from high end systems, Flame, Jaleo, Avid to Final Cut Pro/Shake.

I have worked at Post houses in LA and the bay area an along the west coast. I then got into coloring and have been a professional colorist since 2006. Using Apple Products and hardware up until now..

My dissent is the greatest form of patriotism towards Apple, Apple can do better. I know all the young whipper snappers on here don't care about old man knowledge, and Apple might not care about the high end anymore, But I can hope and prey to the ghost of Steve and the life of Tim that it could change.

But until then, I will post my dissent.
And BTW I'm a Pro level user, so my opinion is valid.

"Long Live Apple!!!"
 
I am not sure what point your arguing

As I mentioned above: "to say that Apple aren't present in the serious production world, and are all about social media videos is blatantly false."

That is my main point.

I also agreed with you that high-end vfx is largely not on Macs, and yes some workflows of course use full res footage while monitoring proxy.

I don't know much about Premiere although I used AE and PS of course; pretty much all the top-level editors I work with take Avid gigs, and the Premiere market is a bit of a separate world. I don't see why supporting Premiere hardware-wise makes much business sense for Apple.


Macs have their place in high-end post, but building and supporting a range of individual highly-specced custom machines for very specific use cases just isn't their thing. They like their simple to understand product line up, and I'm sure are happy to bleed a bit of this custom to the big PC builders. They like their business to look like their products, sleek and streamlined.

Again, of course it would be great if Apple accommodated everybody's needs with machines to suit. But it's not going to happen. Best case with the forthcoming Mac Pro will be a choice between NVIDIA and AMD, but I'm pretty certain they'll be Apple supplied cards only.
 
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I am a Apple Zealot and I have been since the 90's when I got a used SE/30, I have been using Apple computers for making media in Film, TV and Broadcast since then. I was huge Final Cut Pro and Apple Shake Proponent and used to teach people how to switch from high end systems, Flame, Jaleo, Avid to Final Cut Pro/Shake.

I have worked at Post houses in LA and the bay area an along the west coast. I then got into coloring and have been a professional colorist since 2006. Using Apple Products and hardware up until now..

My dissent is the greatest form of patriotism towards Apple, Apple can do better. I know all the young whipper snappers on here don't care about old man knowledge, and Apple might not care about the high end anymore, But I can hope and prey to the ghost of Steve and the life of Tim that it could change.

But until then, I will post my dissent.
And BTW I'm a Pro level user, so my opinion is valid.

"Long Live Apple!!!"

I never said your opinion wasn't valid - far from it. It's just surprising that with your level of frustration, you're still around. I am glad that you are, as I said initially in my post, as it's great for Apple to get bashed frequently, so that they need to do better than they are currently. I used to bash them like crazy for the past two years, but the iMac Pro will suffice.

Class that you're into colouring! Where did you learn the most about colouring? I have always been looking for some fundamental and advanced technique training, but never really found anything decent online. I am okay at colour correction, but certainly no expert. In terms of grading, I usually just crush my mid tones a little bit and make sure my highlights are around 100 and my shadows around 0 to -3 at most. I learned as much as I could from the wedding film industry's most successful professionals (charging up to $70k a wedding), but even their knowledge is somewhat lacking in this area. In the wedding industry, we always say that we are 'good enough' at everything, but certainly far from being experts. I'd love to delve deeper though - great career that you have!

I also care about the older heads' opinions. I'm not so young myself. I loved Apple and the Mac before the iPhone, but not before the iPod - shortly thereafter. It's always great to hear stories of Apple from before that period, especially in terms of the Mac.
 
I don't see a significant difference. The issue isn't whether *you* see the difference in a frame grab, it's whether the *audience* sees the difference in the video presentation under normal viewing conditions.

...

(1) Quick Sync at 1080p
(2) Software encoding at 1080p
(3) Quick Sync at UHD 4k
(4) Software encoding at UHD 4k

Quick question: Could you find a way to get rid of that pixilation issue in the lower left hand corner that's in all of your photos? I have an archived 720p image that looks slightly worse than the 1080, but I was able to smooth out the shades completely so you didn't have that issue. BTW, thank you for posting that, given that I can't encode anything decent until I get a new computer
 
I am a Apple Zealot and I have been since the 90's when I got a used SE/30, I have been using Apple computers for making media in Film, TV and Broadcast since then. I was huge Final Cut Pro and Apple Shake Proponent and used to teach people how to switch from high end systems, Flame, Jaleo, Avid to Final Cut Pro/Shake.

I have worked at Post houses in LA and the bay area an along the west coast. I then got into coloring and have been a professional colorist since 2006. Using Apple Products and hardware up until now..

My dissent is the greatest form of patriotism towards Apple, Apple can do better. I know all the young whipper snappers on here don't care about old man knowledge, and Apple might not care about the high end anymore, But I can hope and prey to the ghost of Steve and the life of Tim that it could change.

But until then, I will post my dissent.
And BTW I'm a Pro level user, so my opinion is valid.

"Long Live Apple!!!"
People with experience tend to complain.. including me. With want worth value $$$.
 
I never said your opinion wasn't valid - far from it. It's just surprising that with your level of frustration, you're still around. I am glad that you are, as I said initially in my post, as it's great for Apple to get bashed frequently, so that they need to do better than they are currently. I used to bash them like crazy for the past two years, but the iMac Pro will suffice.

Class that you're into colouring! Where did you learn the most about colouring? I have always been looking for some fundamental and advanced technique training, but never really found anything decent online. I am okay at colour correction, but certainly no expert. In terms of grading, I usually just crush my mid tones a little bit and make sure my highlights are around 100 and my shadows around 0 to -3 at most. I learned as much as I could from the wedding film industry's most successful professionals (charging up to $70k a wedding), but even their knowledge is somewhat lacking in this area. In the wedding industry, we always say that we are 'good enough' at everything, but certainly far from being experts. I'd love to delve deeper though - great career that you have!

I also care about the older heads' opinions. I'm not so young myself. I loved Apple and the Mac before the iPhone, but not before the iPod - shortly thereafter. It's always great to hear stories of Apple from before that period, especially in terms of the Mac.

I started out in Digital Compositing, film clean up. At the time Apple SHAKE. A friend an I leased two X-RAIDS with the X-Serve as a controller and setup a gigabit network in a tiny space, a couple headless MacPro's as Render Nodes. I think G4/G5, intel MacPro wasn't out yet... We where able to underbid every post studio in LA and had a pretty decent run. Mind numbing work. Paint and Roto type work, clean up, beauty work, tv comps, some light CG. During that time I was doing all the film outs at a facility that had a Lustre Grading Theatre on SGI hardware. I used to try and get as much of our film outs to go through Lustre just so I could sit with the colorist. This was a junior guy, but still I was pretty hooked. Also from SHAKE I learned about LUT's ColorSpaces and DI workflow.. All skills needed to be a good at Grading and DI. When Apple Aquired Silicon Color I jumped right on board.. It was a pretty good run with Apple Final Cut Pro, Shake and Color.. Around 2009 everyone knew Apple was killing Final Cut Pro Studio. Updates where few and far between and it wasn't something they cared about as much. Then Blackmagic bought Davinci and I got a Resolve System up and running... Finally The Foundry Bought NUKE and everyone using SHAKE had to jump to NUKE.. So I mean Apple was great to give high end tools to young artists at the time, but in the end everyone had to jump to different software.. Sometime different hardware as well.

Coloring is great, i like it a lot more than Compositing, and having my technical knowledge from Film compositing helped me not have to be a junior at a big facility and jump right in.

As for getting good at it, nothing will get you better at color grading than having 4 producers and a creative director sitting behind you for 10 hours a day for a few weeks..

So go grab a free version of Resolve and watch the Warren Eagles tutorials.
https://www.warreneagles.com.au

I am not sure how much they cost, but they are worth it if you want to learn to color.
 
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I think a point is missed in the debate about speed. It does not matter if the iMac Pro (or future MP) has powerful hardware if the software is lacking in some aspects or not exists at all. I am not talking games but 3D software - often there is a foot note : "Not supported on Mac". Apple could have bought The Foundry and used that as display window for capabilities of Mac/Metal in 3D graphics software/AR market. I think Apple supported The Foundry to test implementing Metal in Modo and preliminary results were very promising but the project was later ditched.

It is not easy to navigate in the jungle of CUDA/OpenCL/Metal, Quicksync, Win/OSX, ST/MT, and softwares options.

I my opinion there is no computer that "rules them all" although that is what we hope Apple will produce every single year :) (and of course for a price that everybody can pay;)).
 
I started out in Digital Compositing, film clean up. At the time Apple SHAKE. A friend an I leased two X-RAIDS with the X-Serve as a controller and setup a gigabit network in a tiny space, a couple headless MacPro's as Render Nodes. I think G4/G5, intel MacPro wasn't out yet... We where able to underbid every post studio in LA and had a pretty decent run. Mind numbing work. Paint and Roto type work, clean up, beauty work, tv comps, some light CG. During that time I was doing all the film outs at a facility that had a Lustre Grading Theatre on SGI hardware. I used to try and get as much of our film outs to go through Lustre just so I could sit with the colorist. This was a junior guy, but still I was pretty hooked. Also from SHAKE I learned about LUT's ColorSpaces and DI workflow.. All skills needed to be a good at Grading and DI. When Apple Aquired Silicon Color I jumped right on board.. It was a pretty good run with Apple Final Cut Pro, Shake and Color.. Around 2009 everyone knew Apple was killing Final Cut Pro Studio. Updates where few and far between and it wasn't something they cared about as much. Then Blackmagic bought Davinci and I got a Resolve System up and running... Finally The Foundry Bought NUKE and everyone using SHAKE had to jump to NUKE.. So I mean Apple was great to give high end tools to young artists at the time, but in the end everyone had to jump to different software.. Sometime different hardware as well.

Coloring is great, i like it a lot more than Compositing, and having my technical knowledge from Film compositing helped me not have to be a junior at a big facility and jump right in.

As for getting good at it, nothing will get you better at color grading than having 4 producers and a creative director sitting behind you for 10 hours a day for a few weeks..

So go grab a free version of Resolve and watch the Warren Eagles tutorials.
https://www.warreneagles.com.au

I am not sure how much they cost, but they are worth it if you want to learn to color.

Really helpful post - thanks very much! Looks like his complete tutorial package is $300. I'll get it early in the new year when I have some free time to digest it - thanks again! I know he works in Resolve, but it looks like there's a workflow between FCPX and Resolve, so I'll look into adopting that too!

It's fascinating to hear your story and know where I was at that time in my life. It's also fascinating just to learn your journey - it's amazing where life takes us as we pursue our own interests. My bf's sister's bf is a compositor. He worked on the movie, 'The Martian', but I've watched him doing it, and it does look pain-stakingly boring - colouring is much more fun!

I was too young at the time you were working to get Final Cut when Color was still in use. I used to look at the applications along with Aperture on the Apple website in my teens, and I think the cost pushed me more so towards photography than film, as I wasn't too far off saving up for a Mac just after I finished my studies in Computer Science, and Aperture wouldn't take too much longer to purchase after that. When I finished university, I knew I preferred using applications rather than creating them, and so I went on to, 'Make a difference' and became a primary school (elementary - I think) teacher, whilst also picking up cameras / lenses and the like to go travelling with. After about 4 years and two travel films later - using the just-introduced Final Cut Pro X, I shot a friends' wedding, and I've been doing it ever since.

I love everything about film. Today, I'm about to sit down and create a 20 minute feature, which I'll probably finish by Sunday. I've done multi-cam edits of the ceremony, speeches and first dance, and re-imported to favourite those, so everything is ready in my library as favourited clips to drop onto the timeline and piece together a story using dialogue - I love it! Once that's done though, I spend about 4 hours getting the best grade I can using FCPX. I do have Colour Finale, but I still stick to FCPX's tools, as my computer can't really handle Colour Finale at the moment.

My standard, 'Go to' for the films I produce is to add +5 saturation to shadows, midtones and highlights, and then use the colour board to get the look I want, after ensuring my exposure is where I want it. I find the whole process to be challenging and enjoyable and I'm always surprised that I'll sometimes adopt a cooler grade, rather than a warmer one when weddings should always be 'warm' to a large extent. I love nothing more than seeing my raw cut come to life in the colours I've chosen - the difference in this final step is huge! I'm always amazed by how much of a difference it makes. Because it's all live event recording, you're always treated to some nightmarish situations. I've gotten to learn a lot more about white balance and colour matrix when recording an event, and so I'm never too far away from where I want to be... that said, there are some environments where there's multiple colours coming in at many different points of a frame, and it's difficult to get right in-camera. Therefore, knowing more about grading and making the right choices with where I position the puck on the colour board will be really helpful in the long run.

Great to learn your story! Thanks for telling me about it!
 
Quick question: Could you find a way to get rid of that pixilation issue in the lower left hand corner that's in all of your photos? I have an archived 720p image that looks slightly worse than the 1080...

I don't see what pixilation you mean. Those are just frame grabs using QT10 or QT7 Pro from the same video files posted above. Can you annotate one and post back the image to highlight what region you mean?

Generally speaking, for some of the Quick Sync vs software-encoded frames there is virtually no discernible difference. For others there is a small difference but it's unclear (at least to me) which would be judged subjectively better in a double-blind test. And of course the end viewers are not looking at still frames but the video presentation.

However, even though I said what counts is whether the end viewers can tell a difference, that is not entirely correct. In professional video production we must apply a level of scrutiny beyond what viewers will notice. It's like a framing carpenter working to a higher standard than what the end user will notice.

There are also possible issues with generational quality loss as the final video goes through the distribution pipeline. So I agree we need to be aware of these issues. Otherwise one thing leads to another, and before you know it, the end users are seeing horrifically poor quality like the 2016 NBC Olympics as carried by some affiliates: https://joema.smugmug.com/Videography/NBC-2016-Olympic-Image-Quality/n-rvt4Ws/i-BKWbk3B/A
 
The iMac Pro may be fast at some tasks. But I guarantee it isn't fast as the regular iMac at others. 3D apps and apps that use extensive multithreading will absolutely benefit. Sadly, these do not include key apps like Photoshop, After Effects, and Premiere. These apps benefit almost exclusively from clock speed. The 4.2Ghz i7 iMac will drastically outperform the 3.5Ghz E7 Xeon. We noticed that our Mac Pros were being slaughtered by our iMacs a couple years ago. So we did some tests with BareFeats and it bore out the reality that clock speeds are vastly superior to Xeon multi-threading for nearly all tasks. If you are doing strictly 3D-related work, then I'd say to absolutely buy the iMac Pro. However, if you are working in a mixed media app environment using After Effects, Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere, and maybe a 3D app.... then I strongly recommend a regular iMac for the task.... as it will outperform the iMac Pro by probably a good 30-50%
This is just evidence on how badly Adobe needs to rwrite their apps for multithreading. Professional media apps from every other company besides Adobe core count is paramount.
 
This is just evidence on how badly Adobe needs to rwrite their apps for multithreading. Professional media apps from every other company besides Adobe core count is paramount.

Anyone who works closely with or worked at Adobe will tell you that the company is run by general software engineers, who do not know or do not understand media the way people from Film, TV and Commercial world understand media. The one thing Apple used to do is hire professionals from the Film, TV and Commercial world to design, test and implement their software. Much more back in FCP7 days, but a little today. More than Adobe. I have met guys up at adobe like Bill Roberts and it seems like all Adobe cares about is adding features to sell more subscriptions. Guys like Bill are their pusher sales men.. Adobe doesn't care as much about efficiency, workflows or truly optimizing the software they already have out there.. Premiere, After Effects, etc. Adobe just wants your subscription.. I have been to a few NAB demos watching Bill Roberts talk, and it feels like a used care salesman pushing a sale. Bill is a very talented and super smart person, but after the demos you realize he is just being told what he has to do to sell more subscriptions.. Premiere has lots of features today, but they all feel like hacked on patches, not major workflow changes.
 
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