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Sorry... words like "Pro" and "Xeon" and "All-In-One" don't make much sense together.

Powerful components need room to breathe and stretch their legs. They don't need to be crammed behind a heat-generating monitor in a too-thin enclosure.

Current i7s can already thermal throttle inside the iMac. Even if these new Xeons are lower wattage... they'd still be trapping inside with little airflow.

But having said all that... I can actually see Apple discontinuing the Mac Pro and instead offer an iMac Pro.

Sad if true!
 
I don't understand these "iMac Pro" speculations, except that they might be the result of dumbing down the word "pro" or imagined explanations for the missing nMP update.

But here's a weird thing: The iMac and Mac Pro use almost the same amount of "CPU max" power: 240W (27" iMac) and 205-270W (typical 4 or 6 core base Pros with D300-D700). Now, of course, the latter doesn't include a display, which is probably another 70W, give or take. It's not clear that it includes both D700's running full throttle either, and I'd guess not.

So please, no! I want less noise 18" from my face, not more. The more powerful a system is, the farther away I want it. And I want it far away!

Oh, and that HP is amazingly ugly. Why did they think it was necessary, or "innovative"?
 
Certainly any system that experiences throttling because of cooling limitations, shouldn't be considered Pro. It should be able to sustain maximum load indefinitely. The iMac is form over function so I can't see Apple going back on that now.
We may share the same logic, but with Apple it is hard to say. One may consider the nMP cylinder an out of the box form of throttling, and Apple had no issue taping the "Pro" moniker onto it.

But back to topic, I seriously doubt Apple is in the market to sell anything with more power than what the current iMac 5K offers. Even a i7 6700 gets throttled and with only a moderate dGPU. Without a serious change of chassis design improving the thermo efficiency it is just not going to be fun. iMac by definition must be an all-in-one machine with a built-in screen, making it headless and with that we already got the Mac Pro, which is apparently EOL. Let's face it, even if the next iMac has "Pro" next to its name, it will be the same case as the Mac Mini 2014 castration all over again.
 
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More hints of an iMac Pro

iMac Pro is likely to be skylake based for 6,8 or 10 cores. Its unclear if top brass have decided yet between xeon(ep) or i7(x). It's possible skylake xeon e5 v5 1xxx and 2xxx may be chosen, but do not expect anything near 28 core. The standard 4 core iMac is expected to be kaby lake.

Again, expect Vega options up to 16GB

The thermal issues iMacs of past faced are more a bi-product of low focus than engineering limits.

For "thick" iMacs, removing the front screen protector drops ambient temps by as much as 20c (held in place by magnets).

Definately ZERO talk about HDR; but fingers rarely mingle with toes.
 
We may share the same logic, but with Apple it is hard to say. One may consider the nMP cylinder an out of the box form of throttling, and Apple had no issue taping the "Pro" moniker onto it.

Have to admit, I only read about the nMP throttling CPU under sustained load quite recently and could hardly believe it. It's hard to understand the thought process that leads to these kinds of design decisions.
 
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iMac Pro could be similar as Surface Studio, but with more use cases and more horse power. But still it wouldn't be Mac Pro. DTP, Photoshop and Audio & Video editing... even 3D modelling with HDR iMac Pro with option to render in a cloud or in a local Mac Pro would be a great tool for masses. Connecting iMac Pro to future Mac Pro with TB3 could make it work (for the user) as one very powerful machine. Mac Pro would work then either in standalone or iMac Pro expansion mode. HSA should make it possible, although Apple would need AMD's chip to reach that goal.

Anyway, there's no need that iMac Pro has to be a Mac Pro replacement and has to have the most powerful CPU in it. It will be a different tool, and still Pro.
 
Certainly any system that experiences throttling because of cooling limitations, shouldn't be considered Pro. It should be able to sustain maximum load indefinitely. The iMac is form over function so I can't see Apple going back on that now.

Sorry, it may be only me, but I think that all current offerings from Apple are form over function...
 

The article seems a bit confused.

" ... considering to use Intel Xeon instead of Kaby Lakes. ...."

There is no exclusivity between "Kaby Lake" and Xeon E3. The Xeon E3 v6 are "Kaby Lake" generation implementations. It is highly doubtful that 'Xeon' here is an implication about Xeon E5 class. The iMac design pragmatically precludes those (no matter how much hand waving folks might engage in. ). So it is likely not Xeon E5 v4 (or v5) versus "Kaby Lake" at issue here.

Apple could shift to Xeon E3 v6 for the 27" iMacs. All of the 27" iMacs have a discrete GPU (dGPU). IF Apple is ignoring the iGPUs of the Intel CPU+GPU packages then it is somewhat useful to get the models with the GPU turned all the way off ( a subset of the Xeon E3 range). That extra TDP range ( 74 versus 78 for the v6 series ) can be applied to the dGPU budget. Can add a cherry on top if can get some high, but fixed clocked, x86 cores out of that mix also. ( Apple doesn't want after market overclocking ).

If there are now more new iMacs provisioned in the 32-64GB range than in the 8-32GB range then going ECC makes sense. Larger your RAM footprint, the more likely going to run into errors over an extended period of time.

It is highly unlikely though that the 21." models would change over though. The RAM sizes likely aren't to be that high (given Apple's pricing) over the majority of deployments. So a decent chance this could be a "name change" for the 27" models. Or perhaps only a 'price gap' filler between the iMac 27 and Mac Pro ( 2400-3000). If Apple tosses the Mac Pro than a replacement for that $3000-50000 range. If Apple is adding "Pro" to the name the price tags are going to trend up.
 
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The article seems a bit confused.

" ... considering to use Intel Xeon instead of Kaby Lakes. ...."

There is no exclusivity between "Kaby Lake" and Xeon E3. The Xeon E3 v6 are "Kaby Lake" generation implementations. It is highly doubtful that 'Xeon' here is an implication about Xeon E5 class. The iMac design pragmatically precludes those (no matter how much hand waving folks might engage in. ). So it is likely not Xeon E5 v4 (or v5) versus "Kaby Lake" at issue here.

Apple could shift to Xeon E3 v6 for the 27" iMacs. All of the 27" iMacs have a discrete GPU (dGPU). IF Apple is ignoring the iGPUs of the Intel CPU+GPU packages then it is somewhat useful to get the models with the GPU turned all the way off ( a subset of the Xeon E3 range). That extra TDP range ( 74 versus 78 for the v6 series ) can be applied to the dGPU budget. Can add a cherry on top if can get some high, but fixed clocked, x86 cores out of that mix also. ( Apple doesn't want after market overclocking ).

If there are now more new iMacs provisioned in the 32-64GB range than in the 8-32GB range then going ECC makes sense. Larger your RAM footprint, the more likely going to run into errors over an extended period of time.

It is highly unlikely though that the 21." models would change over though. The RAM sizes likely aren't to be that high (given Apple's pricing) over the majority of deployments. So a decent chance this could be a "name change" for the 27" models. Or perhaps only a 'price gap' filler between the iMac 27 and Mac Pro ( 2400-3000). If Apple tosses the Mac Pro than a replacement for that $3000-50000 range. If Apple is adding "Pro" to the name the price tags are going to trend up.


I know. The article writer doesn't seem to understand that Kaby Lake is just the name of the generation of CPUs, that range from Xeon workstation/server class to i7s to i3s and so on.

Looks like this rumor is being picked up by other outlets:

http://www.universityherald.com/art...-imac-2017-specs-apple-rumors-imac-rumors.htm
 
If they're talking about putting Xeon's in the iMac, maybe this does spell the end of the Mac Pro.. and all that Apple sell from a desktop perspective is 'the Macintosh' - which is basically the iMac, in a variety of configurations.

It's a terrifying prospect.
 
I like how the text of the link itself lays out everything a search engine needs to find: "apple imac", "imac 2017", "imac release date" "imac 2017 specs" "apple rumors" "imac rumors".

It's all b.s. There's no point in using high core-count Xeons in an iMac. More cores alone would hardly improve performance for the vast majority of iMac users.

Computations cost power. In a given technology node, and using the same cores, if you split the computations among more cores, but don't raise the total power, then you have no choice but to throttle the clock speeds. Thus you will have gained little if any improvement in performance, and it could easily be counterproductive.

In the end, the only way to get more performance is to not just add cores, but to increase the power cap so that these cores can continue to work without throttling. This just isn't going to work in an iMac without adding a lot more cooling.

Besides, the single-core performance of Xeons tends to lag behind "enthusiast" chips such as the one used in the present top-end iMac.
 
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I remember another Mac rumor from some time ago coming from Christian Times that was way off.

As far as an iMac Pro that would replace the Mac Pro, would it necessarily need to have the same basic form factor as the current models or could it be more of a seperate base and screen like the sunflower iMac. This would eliminate some of the potential heat issues.
 
If they're talking about putting Xeon's in the iMac, maybe this does spell the end of the Mac Pro..

It would be backing pretty far back from the zone the single CPU Mac Pro has been in. Xeon E3 cap out at just 4 cores. Compared to the current top end 12 and possible top end if simply move to equivalent E5 solutions of 16-18 ( E5 2697A or 2697 depending if wanted some base clock boost, 16 core @ 2.6GHz or not. ). So leaving up to 12-14 x86 cores on the table. That is backsliding by 100% ( the total max number of cores current have. ).

You max out at 64GB as opposed to 128+ GB . So leaving 64GB of RAM on the table.

You are limited to probably just 4 TBv3 and bandwidth sharing with the SSD. Xeon E5 only tops out at 4 if keep the 2nd GPU and no bandwidth sharing with base SSD. So leaving Computations GPU and twice as much bandwidth on the table. ( admittedly Apple has done spotty job of fully unleashing the value of the computational GPU. )

Single CPU Mac Pros probably well outsold the dual CPU package versions all along. So leaving a substantive subset of the dual CPU folks behind wasn't walking away for the core of the Mac Pro market. The stuff left on the table above would be. Higher than average RAM , substantially higher bandwidth , substantially higher number of cores for apps not fixated on single core drag racing throughput.


and all that Apple sell from a desktop perspective is 'the Macintosh' - which is basically the iMac, in a variety of configurations.

It's a terrifying prospect.

It is doubtful that Apple will kill off the Mac Mini. They need to decide if the Mac mini is going to continue to try to feed off the MBP for volume components or will shift to the 21" iMac volume support.

The inbetween following state that it is in now has it "lost". However, Apple does need something more affordable.

The Mac Pro seems to have fallen into hobby status. They can still make money at the hobby.

If the notion of the whole desktop line up being just iMac is fead by the "Monitors" move, those monitors were primarily docking stations for the laptops. Apple has been out of the primary Monitor business for almost a decade during which there were more than a couple Mac Min and Mac Pro updates.

Apple has done some kooky things but can't sell anything without a LCD/OLED panel attached to it would be pretty far over the top. ( AppleTV consists of a paneless product and quite likely will continue to do so. So there is no "gotta sell panels or bust" mentality rule. They prefer it, but it isn't absolutely rigid dogma. )
[doublepost=1481668815][/doublepost]
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As far as an iMac Pro that would replace the Mac Pro, would it necessarily need to have the same basic form factor as the current models or could it be more of a seperate base and screen like the sunflower iMac. This would eliminate some of the potential heat issues.

I have doubts aping MS Surface Studio is high on the to do list at Apple Industrial design. ( and it is laptop like in parameters. A much larger base to deal with the issues is going to impact display movement/placement at some point in growth. )

It is also a deep, deep, deep misreading of the user base. A much higher subset of Mac Pro users have specific monitors they want to work with. Attaching one to a Mac Pro is only good for generating alot of hate. An HDMI output allows an AppleTV to tap into the whole modern TV market. Similarly, some relatively standard outputs a Mac Pro (or Mini) can tap into the quite large and robust 3rd party monitor market ( a far bigger consumer of LCD/OLED panels than Apple every will be). That opens up opportunities for Apple that the iMac doesn't touch.
[doublepost=1481670048][/doublepost]
....

Besides, the single-core performance of Xeons tends to lag behind "enthusiast" chips such as the one used in the present top-end iMac.

Xeon E3 is essentially the same die with features turned off/on. So not necessarily particularly lagging much. Binned and market segmented by Intel perhaps, but lagging? Not particularly.

E3 v6 is leaked to baseline at 3.9GHz at the top end.

https://www.techpowerup.com/225403/intel-xeon-e3-1200-v6-kaby-lake-series-detailed

The current iMac has a 4.0GHz top BTO option. If 0.01GHz is significantly lagging there is a gap. Yes the current iMac is effectively "v5" in relation to this "v6" so Intel is "matching" later.

IMHO, I think Apple is a bit queasy on using unlocked chips. Isn't so much enthusiast as the "high end desktop " options are in the roughly same ballpark as the E5 1600 series ( except at very bottom.... which again is Intel imposed segmentation. )

P.S. the i7-7700K is looking like it will jump to 4.2GHz base but the TDP is also quite high also. Still in the 90+ W range.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10802/desktop-kaby-lakes-lineup-base-frequencies-chipset-names

Apple getting 3.9 GHz at 20W cheaper would definitely gather their attention given iMac's operational track record on cooling.
 
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If they're talking about putting Xeon's in the iMac, maybe this does spell the end of the Mac Pro.. and all that Apple sell from a desktop perspective is 'the Macintosh' - which is basically the iMac, in a variety of configurations.
Lloyd Chambers, who is a photographer, did a comparison between his 8 core 2013 Mac Pro and a 5k iMac and the iMac held it's own for all but the most demanding operations for Lightroom and Photoshop. I have seen many posts from people who chose an iMac over a Mac Pro for graphic arts and a couple from people who actually use one for video. That being the case, I could see Apple trying to make the iMac a bit more powerful and letting the Mac Pro become history.

It would simplify the Mac lineup to a MacBook, MacBook Pro and iMac which are probably much stronger sellers than the Mac Pro and cater more to the average consumer. I think the writing is basically on the wall when they showed a MacBook Pro hooked up to multiple monitors and hard drive enclosures.
 
or could it be more of a seperate base and screen like the sunflower iMac. This would eliminate some of the potential heat issues.

At that point... why not just separate the computer and monitor altogether? Like a standard desktop computer?

:)

I've seen PC cases not much bigger than an XBox... that can handle full-power i7s and full-size desktop GPUs. With no overheating. It can be done!

And yet... Apple seems to prefer cramming components into a thin "all-in-one" because it looks cool. Except it's not cool in terms of heat. Everything is clocked-down or it gets hit with thermal-throttling.

The iMac could be seriously powerful if they didn't slim it down. Make it thicker across more of the back. You won't see it. It's hidden!

This is the same sorta problem that the Surface Studio has. They put all the computer guts in the tiny base at the bottom. But it didn't have to be so tiny.

The base could be twice as thick and nobody would care.

apgwyyk.jpg

Imagine what they could do with twice the interior volume.

A message to computer makers... stop making desktop computers thin!!!
 
Let me tell you what an "iMac Pro" might look like: a 27" iMac with an 8k panel, running OS X @ 3x retina. Also of course including custom components to drive the panel and a higher-tier CPU/GPU combo than the closest non-pro iMac model--but not necessarily "proportionally" higher-tier. Also perhaps the case will adopt a darker, space-grey color.

Purely hypothetical! I don't need to have it explained to me that that won't sound "pro" to a lot of you. Don't shoot the messenger! Don't expect this too soon, either, if it even happens.
 
The Surface Studio is an elegant machine, without a doubt. I never thought I'd see the day that Microsoft would take the lead in artistic prowess over Apple. If Apple has only a minimal iteration on the iMac in the wings of their super-secret design lab, then I imagine there are some sour and gloomy looks on people's faces. If so, I could even see them cancelling a new design (aside from a spec bump) until something more dramatic can be achieved.

But the Studio is an aspirational machine (again, something that Apple used to excel at in the computing world). It's reputed to be on the noisy side, and a little underpowered. I hope that Apple can do better.

By the way, deconstruct, that would be 0.1 GHz, not 0.01, and as you say it may be 0.3 GHz with the next iterations. But no worries, it is indeed fairly minor, and what's a few hundred MHz between friends? :)
 
...

I've seen PC cases not much bigger than an XBox... that can handle full-power i7s and full-size desktop GPUs. With no overheating. It can be done!

At Apple noise levels?

The iMac could be seriously powerful if they didn't slim it down. Make it thicker across more of the back. You won't see it. It's hidden!

The back of the iMac doesn't necessarily face the well in many of the "open space" work areas. that's why there is a logo back there. ;-) The iMac is only slim a the far edges. The center area isn't all that thin.

The hidden area is behind the pedestal arm. The problem is the any doors and the venting are all squeezed into that "hidden" zone. Part of the iMacs problem is pulling hotter air down to be expelled a bit more than half way down. Most of the heat now goes relatively straight out (from CPU and GPU), but lots of other flow goes up , then pulled back down.
This is part of the "can't have any visible vents" that has tripped up the Macbook Pro too.

Mac Mini ( bottom. and minimal part of the back. )

The Mac Pro suffers slightly from this too in that the vast bulk of the top area is not dedicated to venting. A bit more air mass throughput area and enhanced radiative heat ( away fro from the radio RF arrays ) would help. There are vents but effects to take eyes away from them.



The base could be twice as thick and nobody would care.

The folks who want to fold it down to a 20 angle probably would care. The folks would would want to to fold down to 15 would probably care even more on top of that.


apgwyyk.jpg

Imagine what they could do with twice the interior volume.

Not a whole lot if banging into the back of the screen. An iMac wouldn't fold down so wouldn't be an issue, but is definitely is one for MS. The dual arms to the side do't provide a hiding place though.


A message to computer makers... stop making desktop computers thin!!!

The fundamental fact is that most people want smaller computers. Some don't, but bulk of the market is moving that way. Especially if they have to share their limited desktop space with the computer. Larger computer footprint means less roam for other things.
 
Expectations: GTX 1070
Reality: RX 470

You mean the mobile RX version, right? :( Apple is pretty good these days at managing heat and noise, but that comes at a cost.

(I have a 1070 in my Linux box - it's a nice card. Fast, and no fans most of the time, either.)
 
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