iMac Redesign for 2018?

[EugW]

This is the worst time to buy a new iMac. IMO it would be quite foolish to buy now unless you got a killer deal on one or else you absolutely need one right at this moment.

The coming update to the iMac is going to be one of the biggest in years, and it is very likely going to be sooner rather than later.

The chips are already out and they have roughly the same physical design and TDP as the previous ones, so they are almost drop in replacements, despite being hugely faster. IOW, it would be an absolute shock if Apple didn’t use them and relatively soon

BTW, I own a 2017 model and like it, so it is not as if I’m biased against the 2017 models. The difference though is I bought a 2017 ten months ago.

 

[BlueTide]

Playing devil's advocate, I wouldn't be completely surprised if there would be a re-design that would 'justify' using lesser CPUs with lower TDPs. The real reason being to make a difference between iMac and iMac Pro and leaving a gap that could be filled.

 

[dumastudetto]

This is the worst time to buy a new iMac. IMO it would be quite foolish to buy now unless you got a killer deal on one or else you absolutely need one right at this moment.

It also depends how you use your Mac. If you're not pushing its performance capabilities, you are unlikely to see any noticeable benefit in buying one with the latest chips. It's surprising how many iMac owners use these machines to do very light tasks, such as reading and writing, or maybe some web development, although that big gorgeous display isn't a bad reason to buy one. Some people may also want to buy around this time to include their purchase in the current tax year, i.e. as a tax write off.

 

[Mac32]

Playing devil's advocate, I wouldn't be completely surprised if there would be a re-design that would 'justify' using lesser CPUs with lower TDPs. The real reason being to make a difference between iMac and iMac Pro and leaving a gap that could be filled.

I doubt it, since the iMac Pro uses expensive Xeon CPUs and ECC RAM. If the iMac Pro used 8700K and 8600K CPUs and regular RAM (which quite frankly make more sense for most people), then your suggestion would be more likely.

 

[EugW]

It also depends how you use your Mac. If you're not pushing its performance capabilities, you are unlikely to see any noticeable benefit in buying one with the latest chips. It's surprising how many iMac owners use these machines to do very light tasks, such as reading and writing, or maybe some web development, although that big gorgeous display isn't a bad reason to buy one. Some people may also want to buy around this time to include their purchase in the current tax year, i.e. as a tax write off.

It depends on when the tax year ends, but if based on the calendar tax year then it doesn't matter. If based on corporate or institutional tax year or budget year then it can make a difference... or not. That is in fact why I bought in 2017. I was under the impression that my 2016-2017 budget year ending July 2017 was the only time I would be able to buy, so I bought then. (However, it turns out I was wrong due to a change in my circumstances, so I could have waited until 2018, but oh well.)

As for benefit from the 2018 iMacor not, there are a number of factors to consider here:

1) Machine longevity. A hex-core low end model is going to outlast a quad-core model, all other things being equal.
2) Machine longevity part 2. A 2018 model may be supported by macOS longer than a 2017 model.
3) Machine cost. A hex core low end model will outperform a quad-core mid-end model, and will likely cost less than mid-end models do now. This is especially true in Europe, where re-jigging of the pricing due to exchange rates may further decrease pricing.
4) Machine cost part 2. If you wait the two months or whatever until the 2018 models are announced, the 2017 models will be discounted significantly in price.
5) Resale value. If it matters to you, the hex core models will retain value more than the quad-core models.
6) Machine noise for high performance. If you buy the top-spec 65 Watt model (i5-8600?), it will out-perform the current fastest 2017 i7-7700K in CPU-bound tasks. And it will do it relatively quietly. Meanwhile the i7-7700K hits vacuum cleaner mode pretty quickly. (I should know. I had an i7-7700K that I returned specifically because of the noise, and I'm not even a heavy user.)
7) Bragging rights. "My e-peen is bigger than yours because I have hex-core!!!1"
8) As yet unknown features. For example, my prediction is that macOS 10.14 will bring 4K DRM'd streaming to the Mac, but only to machines that are 7th generation or later, to include the 2017 models or later. However, I could very well be wrong, and even if Apple does introduce 4K streaming, they could be asses and only allow it on 2018 models and later.
9) Education purchases. If you are an edu customer, now is not the time to buy. The time to buy is around July, and it's likely the new models will be out by then already. Why wait until July or whatever for an edu purchase? Because in many countries Apple has back to school sales, that add yet more value to the purchase.

 

[dumastudetto]

It depends on when the tax year ends, but if based on the calendar tax year then it doesn't matter. If based on corporate or institutional tax year or budget year then it can make a difference... or not. That is in fact why I bought in 2017. I was under the impression that my 2016-2017 budget year ending July 2017 was the only time I would be able to buy, so I bought then. (However, it turns out I was wrong due to a change in my circumstances, so I could have waited until 2018, but oh well.)

As for benefit from the 2018 iMacor not, there are a number of factors to consider here:

1) Machine longevity. A hex-core low end model is going to outlast a quad-core model, all other things being equal.
2) Machine longevity part 2. A 2018 model may be supported by macOS longer than a 2017 model.
3) Machine cost. A hex core low end model will outperform a quad-core mid-end model, and will likely cost less than mid-end models do now. This is especially true in Europe, where re-jigging of the pricing due to exchange rates may further decrease pricing.
4) Machine cost part 2. If you wait the two months or whatever until the 2018 models are announced, the 2017 models will be discounted significantly in price.
5) Resale value. If it matters to you, the hex core models will retain value more than the quad-core models.
6) Machine noise for high performance. If you buy the top-spec 65 Watt model (i5-8600?), it will out-perform the current fastest 2017 i7-7700K in CPU-bound tasks. And it will do it relatively quietly. Meanwhile the i7-7700K hits vacuum cleaner mode pretty quickly. (I should know. I had an i7-7700K that I returned specifically because of the noise, and I'm not even a heavy user.)
7) Bragging rights. "My e-peen is bigger than yours because I have hex-core!!!1"
8) As yet unknown features. For example, my prediction is that macOS 10.14 will bring 4K DRM'd streaming to the Mac, but only to machines that are 7th generation or later, to include the 2017 models or later. However, I could very well be wrong, and even if Apple does introduce 4K streaming, they could be asses and only allow it on 2018 models and later.
9) Education purchases. If you are an edu customer, now is not the time to buy. The time to buy is around July, and it's likely the new models will be out by then already. Why wait until July or whatever for an edu purchase? Because in many countries Apple has back to school sales, that add yet more value to the purchase.

You would likely see an extra 1-2 years of macOS updates, assuming macOS stays around in its current form longer than support for 2017 iMacs is eliminated. That's a big assumption at this stage.

Longevity is also a complex question now with Apple apparently about to embark on a platform transition away from Intel processors. This will almost certainly will be a multi-year process at the very least, and I'm still not sure if Apple really will have much interest of competing with Intel at the high-end Xeon line. But it's all a huge question mark for buyers of Intel Macs today, how long will Apple support Intel Macs?

My feeling is quad core versus hex core won't make much difference longer term for most iMac buyers (not iMac Pro) and the apps they use. The apps most people use won't really take advantage of these performance bumps. I think outlasting will really hinge on the luck of how long your machine will boot versus anything performance related at this stage, and that's a lottery often pinned on how well your machine was assembled at the factory.

Obviously those who care about maximising performance, biggest returns on investment, and having the very latest hardware will want to wait for the refresh at this stage. It is very likely we will see new iMacs in the next few months, but it's not guaranteed. But I don't think this stuff matters for most normals who buy iMacs.

 

[EugW]

You would likely see an extra 1-2 years of macOS updates, assuming macOS stays around in its current form longer than support for 2017 iMacs is eliminated. That's a big assumption at this stage.

Longevity is also a complex question now with Apple apparently about to embark on a platform transition away from Intel processors. This will almost certainly will be a multi-year process at the very least, and I'm still not sure if Apple really will have much interest of competing with Intel at the high-end Xeon line. But it's all a huge question mark for buyers of Intel Macs today, how long will Apple support Intel Macs?

My feeling is quad core versus hex core won't make much difference longer term for most iMac buyers (not iMac Pro) and the apps they use. The apps most people use won't really take advantage of these performance bumps. I think outlasting will really hinge on the luck of how long your machine will boot versus anything performance related at this stage, and that's a lottery often pinned on how well your machine was assembled at the factory.

Obviously those who care about maximising performance, biggest returns on investment, and having the very latest hardware will want to wait for the refresh at this stage. It is very likely we will see new iMacs in the next few months, but it's not guaranteed. But I don't think this stuff matters for most normals who buy iMacs.

Even just making thumbnails in a photo organization program, or importing RAW image files, or making iMovies for example would be significantly faster on a hex-core as compared to the quad-core. These aren't exactly pro workflow requirements.

I agree with most of what you are saying, and indeed bought a quad-core iMac last year. However, I just think it makes a lot of sense to just wait 2 months for something significantly faster at the same price, or else cheaper for similar performance.

 

[Lammers]

Given that WWDC is seven weeks away, I agree that at this point it makes sense to wait and see if anything is announced there.

But to come back to the title of the thread and the topic of redesign (typically meaning a change to the visual aesthetics of the product) - major new internals and major new externals are both things that drive sales and upgrade cycles for these products, and both things that require a significant amount of engineering effort on the part of the team responsible for the product.

This is why the iPhone typically does these on alternating cycles - so Apple can maximise sales every year, and as a practical matter so that their hardware engineers and supply chain and manufacturing managers can manage their workload effectively - by solving one problem at a time.

Given that the new Intel chips apparently represent a significant step forward on the internals, I’d argue that Apple would likely not also launch a physical redesign of the externals at the same time. They will save that for a year where they don’t have a major internal change to do.

In terms of the previous Foxconn leak about a new iMac design in 2018, it seems fairly clear at this point that that was referring to what became the iMac Pro.

 

[craigrusse11]

An open question on what a possible redesign might look like...
There seems to be a reasonable assumption that Apple will remain with the 21.5 and 27 sizes for a new iMac. But, what if they decide to completely disregard this and go with 1 size only at say 24 inches, leaving the 27" size for the Pro system? I say this, because if you look at the iPad, MacBook and to a certain extent if we consider iPhone X the "pro", then there is a trend for the largest screens to only be on the pro systems? This would also negate the argument about they wouldn't do a redesign because the pro came out last year.

 

[Glmnet1]

An open question on what a possible redesign might look like...
There seems to be a reasonable assumption that Apple will remain with the 21.5 and 27 sizes for a new iMac. But, what if they decide to completely disregard this and go with 1 size only at say 24 inches, leaving the 27" size for the Pro system? I say this, because if you look at the iPad, MacBook and to a certain extent if we consider iPhone X the "pro", then there is a trend for the largest screens to only be on the pro systems? This would also negate the argument about they wouldn't do a redesign because the pro came out last year.

24 and 27 would be nice because 21.5 is really small but 24 only would be a big downgrade for the iMac. The screen of the 5k 27 is probably its biggest selling point right now and the main reason I want to buy one.

 

[MistrSynistr]

20th anniversary of iMac is just around the corner. If Steve was still around, i would expect the iMac (not pro) in 4 colors:

Silver, Space Gray, Gold and Rose Gold. Including Keyboard, Mouse and Trackpad.

But since Timmy is captain of the ship, I expect nothing in June. Sad.

You think Jobs would offer an iMac in Rose Gold and Gold? lol. You must be new here.

 

[Glmnet1]

Do you think that a new iMac could include a coprocessor like the iMac Pro and the MacBook Pro? I feel like this could be significant in the future with "Marzipan" and might be one more reason to make it worth the wait.

 

[tomscott1988]

I see the iMac pro like a last hurrah to the previous design. I see no reason why there shouldn't be a new design, if people still need a workstation then the pro is the one to buy because another iMac wont offer the same solution.

Knowing apple there wont be a redesign, but no reason not to hope. I feel like if there was we would have had some rumors by now, new component pieces etc the fact we havent means its very unlikely.

If they do go for a design change hopefully they wont slim it but make it thicker. Everyone is bored of this miniaturization BS it was a novelty 10 years ago because everything was so big and bulky. Its time they started designing beautiful machines that follows a little function rather than thinking about how it will work later.

Im pretty bored with apples attitude toward the mac tbh. The notebook lineup is fragmented with difficult choices or stupid money across the board. The macbook pro under 15" is a joke, the touch bar is a joke and the issues that have follow since the 2016 release are also a joke, its price is also a joke compared to the XPS which is £1000 cheaper for the same spec. The mac pro is a joke, the mac mini is a joke, the iMac is gimped because of thermal issues.

Even the iMac pro is a joke because they made a great product that nothing in the mac line up comes close to. Its like a cruel joke to a lot of people who want a really great experience that cant afford it. It feels like all the rest of the products are compromised in some way, here we go we have made a pretty impressive product but pay double for entry. Not that its not worth the money but it is a bit of an egg on the face situation.

The i7 imac for example is the only thing that comes close on paper, but in use for actual work is loud obnoxious and runs super hot throttling quicker than anything in the iMac range.

Its very difficult to be an apple fan and be excited for the next announcement. Makes me super anxious because I know they will remove rather than add and push me another step toward the opposition. Being a professional that uses these machines for a living fellow colleagues are literally sick of it, many have already moved on and in that respect I feel the mac is in trouble. They may be riding it ok atm but give it 3-5 years time if they continue on this trajectory the mac may not be here in the next 8-10 years.

 

[Mac32]

You have some good points. Why can't Apple make a really powerful iMac using the Pro dual fan design, but without the expensive Xeon CPUs and ECC RAM? With the Intel hexacores and AMD Threadrippers, there are plenty of less expensive alternatives out there now (vs. using server grade components).

 

[tomscott1988]

In many aspects the Xeons and ECC are way overkill especially for an iMac because you wont run it like a server 24/7 and if something needs to render more than 24 hours then what ever it is will be super intense and the iMac isnt really a target for that level of work. Server grade hardware is for just that 24 hour operation.

For many people the i series is more suitable although these machines are 5k they will be 9-5 machines for most. With the i9s etc they are very comparable to the xeons in the pro but need to be well cooled. They certainly will give the base iMac pro a run for its money I dont think they are that much cheaper tho really. Its to be seen if apple will allow this sort of competition it may well be that the i7 is the top you will be able to spec.

At the end of the day this puny little fan is all the keeps the 2017 imac cool across the board.

 

[L-Viz]

You think Jobs would offer an iMac in Rose Gold and Gold? lol. You must be new here.

Hello? Original iMac in 5 colors!

Besides that, Apple came out with the 3 colors on the MacBook and at least 2 colors on the MacBook pro. Why? Because people want their devices to match each other. At least some people. I could imagine, that the non pro iMac will offer that selection for the general user!
[doublepost=1523898341][/doublepost]

At the end of the day this puny little fan is all the keeps the 2017 imac cool across the board.

At least it gives us space for a massive sata SSD

 

[Lammers]

But, what if they decide to completely disregard this and go with 1 size only at say 24 inches, leaving the 27" size for the Pro system?

Apple stopped selling 24” iMacs in 2009 and has been selling 27” iMacs since then. I think it’s extremely unlikely that nine years later, in 2018, they would decide that that was a mistake and downgrade people back to 24” again.

Apple differentiate their Pro products by giving them new features over and above their new-Pro counterparts. They don’t artificially differentiate them by taking away long-standing features from the non-Pro models.
[doublepost=1523900445][/doublepost]

Do you think that a new iMac could include a coprocessor like the iMac Pro and the MacBook Pro? I feel like this could be significant in the future with "Marzipan" and might be one more reason to make it worth the wait.

Given the focus Apple has put on these chips at the launch events, I’d say it’s only a matter of time before they come to every Mac model. But your guess is as good as mine as to whether that will be in 2018.
[doublepost=1523901125][/doublepost]

Being a professional that uses these machines for a living fellow colleagues are literally sick of it, many have already moved on and in that respect I feel the mac is in trouble. They may be riding it ok atm but give it 3-5 years time if they continue on this trajectory the mac may not be here in the next 8-10 years.

Certainly possible, of course, but not really supported by the data. Mac shipments continue to grow, and Apple’s PC market share continues to grow, and in a shrinking market. That suggests that the Mac’s trajectory is just fine.

That’s not to say though that there aren’t concerns from professional users about the Mac, as there clearly are. But that doesn’t lead to the platform being in trouble necessarily.

 

[Waragainstsleep]

That’s not to say though that there aren’t concerns from professional users about the Mac, as there clearly are. But that doesn’t lead to the platform being in trouble necessarily.

The iMac is just fine, they have simply shed the creative pro market in favour of consumers and executive users. And there are way more of them than there are creative pros.

As for redesigning the iMac, its been an iterative process since the G5. Its high time they ditched the terrible drives in the entry level units and went all SSD but I don't think that helps them shave anything much off the case dimensions. A curved screen would be a huge PITA to repair and also likely bulk up the packaging and means less per boat/plane from China.

Purely wishful thinking, but the iMac is about to turn 20 next year. It would be so cool if they revisited the iPod Mini/Nano anodising techniques to make a new range of colourful iMacs.....

 

[EugW]

Interestingly, all the creative pros I know run either an iMac or a MacBook Pro. None of them have iMac Pros or Mac Pros (or in the old days some did have the latter).

 

[Icaras]

An open question on what a possible redesign might look like...
There seems to be a reasonable assumption that Apple will remain with the 21.5 and 27 sizes for a new iMac. But, what if they decide to completely disregard this and go with 1 size only at say 24 inches, leaving the 27" size for the Pro system? I say this, because if you look at the iPad, MacBook and to a certain extent if we consider iPhone X the "pro", then there is a trend for the largest screens to only be on the pro systems? This would also negate the argument about they wouldn't do a redesign because the pro came out last year.

I absolutely like and agree in your thinking here. Let me take it a step further and match up that formula (consumer: 1 size / pro: 2 sizes) by saying i’d love to see Apple make the iMac available only in 24” and move the 27” to the iMac Pro line and add a 30” size to that line as well.

Thoughts?

 

[BlueTide]

I doubt it, since the iMac Pro uses expensive Xeon CPUs and ECC RAM. If the iMac Pro used 8700K and 8600K CPUs and regular RAM (which quite frankly make more sense for most people), then your suggestion would be more likely.

Haha, I sure hope you're right.

In many aspects the Xeons and ECC are way overkill especially for an iMac because you wont run it like a server 24/7 and if something needs to render more than 24 hours then what ever it is will be super intense and the iMac isnt really a target for that level of work. Server grade hardware is for just that 24 hour operation.

For many people the i series is more suitable although these machines are 5k they will be 9-5 machines for most. With the i9s etc they are very comparable to the xeons in the pro but need to be well cooled. They certainly will give the base iMac pro a run for its money I dont think they are that much cheaper tho really. Its to be seen if apple will allow this sort of competition it may well be that the i7 is the top you will be able to spec.

Yep. I find it funny how many seem to get their knickers twisted when people utter out Server Grade, Xeon, Pro Graphics or ECC. As if they'd benefit from them. I also find it funny how you can get 18 core i9 from Dell/Alienware for $4-5k (EDIT: I was originally off by 1k). Sure it's not as pretty and not macOS, but...

Interestingly, all the creative pros I know run either an iMac or a MacBook Pro. None of them have iMac Pros or Mac Pros (or in the old days some did have the latter).

Yep. Many of those work task aren't really processor intensive at all, or not for long periods of time and thus the differences are less meaningful.

 

[JVNeumann]

I absolutely like and agree in your thinking here. Let me take it a step further and match up that formula (consumer: 1 size / pro: 2 sizes) by saying i’d love to see Apple make the iMac available only in 24” and move the 27” to the iMac Pro line and add a 30” size to that line as well.

Thoughts?

Just my guess, but I suspect a major factor is synergizing the use of components (screens, chassis, even shipping and boxing), which is tied directly to the size. So the iMP is probably too niche a product to warrant building 27" (and potentially 30") components for exclusively. Not that I wouldn't want a 30" screen, but I don't think they could limit those two bespoke chassis/screen sizes to a product that moves such small quantities.

I'm just playing armchair logistics expert here, but that sounds right to me.

 

[tomscott1988]

Interestingly, all the creative pros I know run either an iMac or a MacBook Pro. None of them have iMac Pros or Mac Pros (or in the old days some did have the latter).

Because there hasn’t been a decent pro machine since the 2009 design so there has been no option for people other than a MacBook Pro or an iMac.

Even in 2009-2012 era pros were out in the cold because those machines weren’t moving fast either.

Been difficult to be a heavy Mac user. The iMac was really the only feasible option you could buy that had the current tech because it’s renewed every year.

 

[Chidorin]

21x9 iMacs? More space for cooling, more space for more powerful parts like vega?

 

[Ifti]

I see the iMac pro like a last hurrah to the previous design. I see no reason why there shouldn't be a new design, if people still need a workstation then the pro is the one to buy because another iMac wont offer the same solution.

Knowing apple there wont be a redesign, but no reason not to hope. I feel like if there was we would have had some rumors by now, new component pieces etc the fact we havent means its very unlikely.

If they do go for a design change hopefully they wont slim it but make it thicker. Everyone is bored of this miniaturization BS it was a novelty 10 years ago because everything was so big and bulky. Its time they started designing beautiful machines that follows a little function rather than thinking about how it will work later.

Im pretty bored with apples attitude toward the mac tbh. The notebook lineup is fragmented with difficult choices or stupid money across the board. The macbook pro under 15" is a joke, the touch bar is a joke and the issues that have follow since the 2016 release are also a joke, its price is also a joke compared to the XPS which is £1000 cheaper for the same spec. The mac pro is a joke, the mac mini is a joke, the iMac is gimped because of thermal issues.

Even the iMac pro is a joke because they made a great product that nothing in the mac line up comes close to. Its like a cruel joke to a lot of people who want a really great experience that cant afford it. It feels like all the rest of the products are compromised in some way, here we go we have made a pretty impressive product but pay double for entry. Not that its not worth the money but it is a bit of an egg on the face situation.

The i7 imac for example is the only thing that comes close on paper, but in use for actual work is loud obnoxious and runs super hot throttling quicker than anything in the iMac range.

Its very difficult to be an apple fan and be excited for the next announcement. Makes me super anxious because I know they will remove rather than add and push me another step toward the opposition. Being a professional that uses these machines for a living fellow colleagues are literally sick of it, many have already moved on and in that respect I feel the mac is in trouble. They may be riding it ok atm but give it 3-5 years time if they continue on this trajectory the mac may not be here in the next 8-10 years.

Fantastic post - agreed 100%