iMac specs a bit ?? underwhelming

[Lankyman]

Depends how you look at it.

Compare the price to a 4k or 5k IPS display (not some cheap crappy TN screen) that's 27 inches in size, and work out what the components inside an iMac would cost you to add to that price.

Then consider that it is a single "supported" device with a single source of support you can contact for any problems you may encounter. Oh and if you're comparing to a PC, be sure to get the non-crippled "PRO" version of Windows 10 to get feature parity (somewhat, you still can't disable a bunch of the malware in Windows 10) with OS X.

Yes, i wish the iMac spec was better too, but in terms of what you get for the money (when you actually compare like for like with a PC alternative, and don't leave out half the stuff you get with the Mac that you'd need to pay for on the PC side) they're actually pretty reasonable.

You can get a very very good 27" Dell 5K screen for a decent price. Yes if you build a PC with the latest quality parts then it too is not going to be dirt cheap either. What your post fails to address though is that the PC can be endlessly upgraded unlike the iMac.

Once you factor in the upgrade options the iMac becomes a much less attractive financial proposition.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

You can get a very very good 27" Dell 5K screen for a decent price. Yes if you build a PC with the latest quality parts then it too is not going to be dirt cheap either. What you post fails to address though is that the PC can be endlessly upgraded unlike the iMac.

Once you factor in the upgrade options the iMac becomes a much less attractive financial proposition.

But an iMac will hold its price and can be sold for about half its price 2-3 years later allowing for an upgrade every 3 years for about £350 a year cost of ownership (that's about $10 a week a bit of a bargain for a great computer). It can mitigate the upgradeability argument to a great extent.

Of course that may not last but currently they can work out a cheap way to own a top end all in one all the time.

 

[macjunk(ie)]

.......

The reason I pay a premium is for OS X, trackpads that don't suck, an OS that doesn't suck (and you have no idea, Windows in the enterprise is my day job - i use windows because i have to, i use OS X and pay the premium because i WANT to).

I use Windows in the office. By that account, I use Windows more than I use the Mac and it is actually my work on Windows that brings the bacon home. So I know what I am dealing with here. I prefer OSX and the Mac trackpad; but once in a while I question whether that is worth the hundreds of dollars worth premium over the Windows counterparts. In some cases, even if you spend the money on the Mac side, you cannot get a computer as performant as one on the Windows side. Case in point: the Mac Pro (still selling 2013 hardware), MBP still without Skylake.

After 3-4 years time has moved on enough anyway that if you're the type to be whining about spec, you'd be upgrading or replacing your PC anyway. Most likely replacing almost all of it, as CPU sockets change, RAM sockets change, PCIe standards change, USB standards change, display port standards change, etc. Sure you might do it piecemeal instead of all at once, but that's just a personal budgeting problem - if you put the money away over 3 years to replace the hardware, be it a Mac or a PC, that should not be a problem to do all in one hit.

I built my first PC in 2000. I used it all the way till 2007. I had upgraded to an SSD and to 12GB RAM. That's about it. I am not a spec guy at all but I believe in getting the best bang for the buck when I buy something. If my current MBP allows me to, I will love to go back to changing my laptop once every 7-8 years. Hopefully by then, Ive's brain damage would have healed and he would have realised that laptops and desktops are not mobile phones and he will design them to be user serviceable.

 

[throAU]

You can get a very very good 27" Dell 5K screen for a decent price. Yes if you build a PC with the latest quality parts then it too is not going to be dirt cheap either. What you post fails to address though is that the PC can be endlessly upgraded unlike the iMac.

Once you factor in the upgrade options the iMac becomes a much less attractive financial proposition.

Upgrades are over-rated. And I say that as someone who built his own PCs and continues to do so for specific purposes (gaming, and NAS storage). I do not generally upgrade the PCs i built much. I replace. Because...

In 3-5 years time, new storage standards will be out, new memory standard, new PCI bus, new CPU socket, etc., etc.

If you upgrade piecemeal you are not going to get the same level of performance as replacing the machine.

So yes, of course it is cheaper.


e.g., the Haswell box i built in 2013 now has a CPU socket that is out of date, USB standard out of date (no USB-C), memory slots are just out of date (DDR3 vs. DDR4), storage interface out of date (SATA3 - no M.2).

Sure, i could upgrade it, but i'd get better bang for buck selling it off (before it is un-usably ancient) and replacing the lot. Except for maybe the case. But they're cheap. Even the monitor does not do G-sync.

I'd also get new warranty on everything.


So yeah. Upgrades are over-rated.

 

[AZhappyjack]

I'm sick of this crap with everyone's responses. When you buy a "Desktop" CPU irregardless of the design. You are supposed to get "Desktop" parts inside the machine whether it's a tower or an all in one.

I think we should all ban together and file a "Class action lawsuit", This is fraudulent and the goddamn iMac costs warrant real desktop internals for the price. If I'm going to drop $3k on a new CPU, Then it better have $3k worth of components inside and not $900 worth of laptop crap internally. That is what the iMac has at this time. Un-acceptable for what were paying for.

Yeah, that's the American way. Just sue the b@st@rds.

If you find the offerings "un-acceptable" then buy something else. There's nothing fraudulent in this. Apple is not deceiving you with the components that they select. iFixIt and others tear these machines apart the minute they get their hands on them and make what information Apple doesn't share readily available.

If you think these machine are worth the price, great. If not, buy something else. Apple makes more than one computer... and there are plenty of other companies selling computers, as well.

It's not like everyone who considers (or purchases) a Mac is waiting to rip the thing apart and upgrade all the components. They are often users who just want a solid computer and are willing to pay the "Apple tax" to get a good experience, a solid computer and the privilege of running OS X.

 

[Lankyman]

But an iMac will hold its price and can be sold for about half its price 2-3 years later allowing for an upgrade every 3 years for about £350 a year cost of ownership (that's about $10 a week a bit of a bargain for a great computer). It can mitigate the upgradeability argument to a great extent.

Of course that may not last but currently they can work out a cheap way to own a top end all in one all the time.

It already hasn't lasted with values of items such as iPhones, iMac's etc. now falling quite readily. Many on well know auction sites are failing to sell period. Upgrading a self-built PC will cost nowhere near the figures you quote for iMac yearly ownership costs BTW.
[doublepost=1462722939][/doublepost]

Upgrades are over-rated. And I say that as someone who built his own PCs and continues to do so for specific purposes (gaming, and NAS storage). I do not generally upgrade the PCs i built much. I replace. Because...

In 3-5 years time, new storage standards will be out, new memory standard, new PCI bus, new CPU socket, etc., etc.

If you upgrade piecemeal you are not going to get the same level of performance as replacing the machine.

So yes, of course it is cheaper.


e.g., the Haswell box i built in 2013 now has a CPU socket that is out of date, USB standard out of date (no USB-C), memory slots are just out of date (DDR3 vs. DDR4), storage interface out of date (SATA3 - no M.2).

Sure, i could upgrade it, but i'd get better bang for buck selling it off (before it is un-usably ancient) and replacing the lot. Except for maybe the case. But they're cheap. Even the monitor does not do G-sync.

I'd also get new warranty on everything.


So yeah. Upgrades are over-rated.

I note your comments but do not agree - sounds to me like you're trying to convince yourself rather than others.
[doublepost=1462723194][/doublepost]

They are often users who just want a solid computer and are willing to pay the "Apple tax" to get a good experience, a solid computer and the privilege of running OS X.

That argument no longer holds true I'm afraid - as an OS X user and Windows 10 user, both operating systems can comfortably stand shoulder to shoulder.

Pay top money for underwhelming outdated specs if you must but be honest about the hardware/software.

 

[briloronmacrumo]

IMO an effective way to convey dissatisfaction with Apple's offering is with your wallet ( i.e. don't buy it ). Apple's accountants closely watch sales metrics, so the message is likely to be noticed; online forum posts have little to no impact in this specific area price vs. specs. Apple's feedback page is a better forum but less effective than voting with your wallet.

Apple's recently announced Mac sales decline has hopefully received attention in Cupertino and caused them to reevaluate.

 

[jerwin]

Upgrades are over-rated. And I say that as someone who built his own PCs and continues to do so for specific purposes (gaming, and NAS storage). I do not generally upgrade the PCs i built much. I replace. Because...
...
e.g., the Haswell box i built in 2013 now has a CPU socket that is out of date, USB standard out of date (no USB-C), memory slots are just out of date (DDR3 vs. DDR4), storage interface out of date (SATA3 - no M.2).

Let's be honest here.
USB socket A is not going away.
USB-C isn't necessarily faster than conventional USB 3.1. (or, USB 2.0, for that matter). It's just a socket.

for desktops Skylake provides only an incremental advance over Haswell, especially if you use discrete graphics.

DDR4 provides an incremental advance over DDR3.

If you want a major upgrade, use the PCI slots to upgrade video and storage.

 

[MoreAwesomeDanU]

Let's be honest here.
USB socket A is not going away.
USB-C isn't necessarily faster than conventional USB 3.1. (or, USB 2.0, for that matter). It's just a socket.

for desktops Skylake provides only an incremental advance over Haswell, especially if you use discrete graphics.

DDR4 provides an incremental advance over DDR3.

If you want a major upgrade, use the PCI slots to upgrade video and storage.

I think you nailed the point. Personal computers have come to a point where all updates you see from now on will be INCREMENTAL.

I have a BASE 2011 27" iMac I got from bestbuy that i have been using for 5 years. I threw in a SSD and more RAM myself for less than 200bucks, and this thing still absolutely blasts through all my personal/professional uses i can throw at it - which includes a ton of large photo editing, and UI/UX work inside sketch/adobe.

Honestly, I don't know what most people on this forum do that requires so much computing power, along with all the upgrade capabilities. People are whining about not enough power, yet they don't realize they live inside a very very niche market. Mean while, 90% of the population (including professionals) don't care if its a mobile/desktop video card, because PCs gotten to a point that specs don't matter to daily use anymore. They care about the product presentation and the visuals they see on their screen.

I have a self built gaming PC too, the thing is also 4 years old and i blow through the latest games with very little hiccups. I am planning to get a 1080gtx once my oculus gets here tho. But yea, computer power is a thing in the past. Get over it. Now go see how much of a computer you can build with a 5k display from dell costing $1500 with an imac budget.

 

[Alx9876]

Yeah, that's the American way. Just sue the b@st@rds.

If you find the offerings "un-acceptable" then buy something else. There's nothing fraudulent in this. Apple is not deceiving you with the components that they select. iFixIt and others tear these machines apart the minute they get their hands on them and make what information Apple doesn't share readily available.

If you think these machine are worth the price, great. If not, buy something else. Apple makes more than one computer... and there are plenty of other companies selling computers, as well.

It's not like everyone who considers (or purchases) a Mac is waiting to rip the thing apart and upgrade all the components. They are often users who just want a solid computer and are willing to pay the "Apple tax" to get a good experience, a solid computer and the privilege of running OS X.

The entire point of suing Apple is not to get money out of them. It's to force Apple to put "Desktop only" parts inside these so called "Desktop" machines or to stop them from branding the iMacs as desktop CPU when it isn't.

I for one own a 27 inch iMac i7 32 gigs of ram July 2010 model. I love my machine. However I'm not doing this again.

I watched closely as my iMac stopped giving me the performance I needed right about the two year mark. I am looking at the iMacs right now. Even the maxed out model will give me trouble a year and half out.

Just to point it out since many replies keep referring to OSX as a $$ benefit. Apple has made this OS free now for a while. So that is a not a point anymore. My underlying message is give me what I'm paying for not what you think I should pay.

If you bought a Desktop from any other brand and it arrived with laptop parts in it. You all would hit the wall pissed off at what happened to you. But when Apple slips you some magic beans you defend it

 

[jerwin]

I think you nailed the point. Personal computers have come to a point where all updates you see from now on will be INCREMENTAL.

Not all.
The top end video cards coming out this year will be significantly faster than the top end cards from last year.

In storage, the SSDs coming out now are significantly faster than older tech.

And of course, in the ultramobile CPU market, there are on year on year improvements. They are still very slow compared to a desktop CPU, to the point that "When will Apple switch from intel to ARM" becomes really annoying.

Unless someone releases a tool that makes multithreaded programming really trivial, though, the desktop CPU will be the subject of incrementalist upgrades. (Broadwell EP has a 22 core, 44 thread monster that costs a mint, but it's hardly cost effective for ordinary users)

 

[iemcj]

This is the reason they have the 5k screen. It's the only way you can justify the price. It's zero practical difference compared to a 4k screen which is why it isn't produced in big numbers. Take that away and we way over payed.

 

[aevan]

I'm sick of this crap with everyone's responses. When you buy a "Desktop" CPU irregardless of the design. You are supposed to get "Desktop" parts inside the machine whether it's a tower or an all in one.

I think we should all ban together and file a "Class action lawsuit", This is fraudulent and the goddamn iMac costs warrant real desktop internals for the price. If I'm going to drop $3k on a new CPU, Then it better have $3k worth of components inside and not $900 worth of laptop crap internally. That is what the iMac has at this time. Un-acceptable for what were paying for.

And where is the fraud? Did they advertise false components in their online and local stores? Because, I remember it clearly stated all the internal components above that 'buy' button. They can sell an actual apple, as in fruit, for $10 000 if they want, as long as they clearly state what they are selling and no one forces you to buy it.

Class action lawsuit? Do you seriously think any court would agree with you?

Besides, the components are desktop class, apart from the (pretty decent, actually) overclocked mobile GPU. And it's performance is above competing All-in-ones.

As for the 'un-acceptable' part, well, it was quite acceptable to me, when I bought one. Please don't present your personal views as generalizations that apply to everyone.
[doublepost=1462742639][/doublepost]

The entire point of suing Apple is not to get money out of them. It's to force Apple to put "Desktop only" parts inside these so called "Desktop" machines or to stop them from branding the iMacs as desktop CPU when it isn't.

You can't force them to do anything. It's their choice, one I'm happy with.

By the way, the CPUs inside current iMacs are i5-6500, i5-6600 and i7-6700 Skylake CPUs. Yup, these are desktop CPUs, and they always were. Do your homework before your next lawsuit

 

[briloronmacrumo]

If you bought a Desktop from any other brand and it arrived with laptop parts in it. You all would hit the wall pissed off

The 27" iMac i7 uses this 6700k CPU which is labeled "desktop" by Intel:

Is Intel's description misleading?

 

[Lankyman]

The GPU not the CPU is the weak link in the iMac.

 

[AZhappyjack]

The entire point of suing Apple is not to get money out of them. It's to force Apple to put "Desktop only" parts inside these so called "Desktop" machines or to stop them from branding the iMacs as desktop CPU when it isn't.

I for one own a 27 inch iMac i7 32 gigs of ram July 2010 model. I love my machine. However I'm not doing this again.

I watched closely as my iMac stopped giving me the performance I needed right about the two year mark. I am looking at the iMacs right now. Even the maxed out model will give me trouble a year and half out.

Just to point it out since many replies keep referring to OSX as a $$ benefit. Apple has made this OS free now for a while. So that is a not a point anymore. My underlying message is give me what I'm paying for not what you think I should pay.

If you bought a Desktop from any other brand and it arrived with laptop parts in it. You all would hit the wall pissed off at what happened to you. But when Apple slips you some magic beans you defend it

All I am saying is that I am very happy with the performance of my iMac. I don't expect it to last forever, and when it no longer serves my needs, I will replace it. I've done my share of building computers over the years, so I understand the point of upgrade-ability to a point. But once my machine is out of date and no longer meets my needs, I don't want to mess with a piece-meal upgrade process. Just give me another machine that works and meets my needs.

I'd put money on the fact that the majority of computer buyers are of the same mindset. Most of the upgrades are incremental, and without a major reworking of components, the return will not deliver "bang for the buck".

While I am not defending Apple's approach this, per se, I don't get all the kvetching and hand-wringing over most of the negative comments here. I'd like to be able to upgrade memory, so I purchased a 27" iMac, which still offers that option. Beyond that, I buy what I need for the moment (and the foreseeable future) and just use it. The drum you are beating is quite worn out.
[doublepost=1462763965][/doublepost]

That argument no longer holds true I'm afraid - as an OS X user and Windows 10 user, both operating systems can comfortably stand shoulder to shoulder.

Pay top money for underwhelming outdated specs if you must but be honest about the hardware/software.

I still maintain that, at least of the people that I know, they prefer to purchase a machine with specs to meet their current need, and that of the foreseeable future and not sweat the small stuff. This 'buy the cheapest and upgrade it yourself' crowd wants to make this about the lack of upgradeability, and want to continue beating the drum rather than facing reality.

It is what it is, and Apple will most likely not change. So either live with with they give you and try to be proactive about your needs and wants, or purchase something else that does meet your needs and expectations.

 

[Lankyman]

I still maintain that, at least of the people that I know, they prefer to purchase a machine with specs to meet their current need, and that of the foreseeable future and not sweat the small stuff. This 'buy the cheapest and upgrade it yourself' crowd wants to make this about the lack of upgradeability, and want to continue beating the drum rather than facing reality.

I certainly would not be building a PC on the cheap - I would be using good quality components including something like the Dell 27" 5K display. Even buying components of this quality the price compared to a similar spec iMac is only around two thirds the cost. I may even get something like the Intel Skull Canyon.

What I've grown tired of is Apple's determination to make life difficult for its customers whilst maximising profit for itself. They are well aware that quite a number of their customers wish to upgrade their machines from time to time and yet they have made a conscience decision to stop them.

 

[throAU]

Let's be honest here.
USB socket A is not going away.
USB-C isn't necessarily faster than conventional USB 3.1. (or, USB 2.0, for that matter). It's just a socket.

for desktops Skylake provides only an incremental advance over Haswell, especially if you use discrete graphics.

DDR4 provides an incremental advance over DDR3.

If you want a major upgrade, use the PCI slots to upgrade video and storage.

Priced up PCIe SSD storage for PCs lately? Cheaper to replace my motherboard.

And of course later USB standards are quicker. That's the point. Sure USB C vs. USB 3 A ports are same speed but I'll need USB C ports sooner or later.

And yes. At the moment there's little point in upgrading much on that box at the moment, as it's all minor incremental improvements.

Once there is a significant upgrade to do, I'll upgrade the whole box and sell the current one off.

If I wasn't a nerd id definitely think twice about investing significant money into upgrades on an out of warranty machine.

 

[Alx9876]

And where is the fraud? Did they advertise false components in their online and local stores? Because, I remember it clearly stated all the internal components above that 'buy' button. They can sell an actual apple, as in fruit, for $10 000 if they want, as long as they clearly state what they are selling and no one forces you to buy it.

Class action lawsuit? Do you seriously think any court would agree with you?

Besides, the components are desktop class, apart from the (pretty decent, actually) overclocked mobile GPU. And it's performance is above competing All-in-ones.

As for the 'un-acceptable' part, well, it was quite acceptable to me, when I bought one. Please don't present your personal views as generalizations that apply to everyone.
[doublepost=1462742639][/doublepost]

You can't force them to do anything. It's their choice, one I'm happy with.

By the way, the CPUs inside current iMacs are i5-6500, i5-6600 and i7-6700 Skylake CPUs. Yup, these are desktop CPUs, and they always were. Do your homework before your next lawsuit

You just contradicted yourself in one post. Mobile GPU is not desktop class and I have done my homework. Mixing and matching doesn't mean dick unless everything is Desktop including the GPU. I'm well aware of what is inside the machine internally which is how I came to my conclusion. You are right. I probably wouldn't have a class action lawsuit because most customers wouldn't understand the difference. The people that do understand the differences, Build their own PC's.

Watch this thread:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/new-nvidia-gtx-1080-really-makes-this-imac-seem-paltry.1971673/

 

[aevan]

You just contradicted yourself in one post. Mobile GPU is not desktop class and I have done my homework. Mixing and matching doesn't mean dick unless everything is Desktop including the GPU. I'm well aware of what is inside the machine internally which is how I came to my conclusion. You are right. I probably wouldn't have a class action lawsuit because most customers wouldn't understand the difference. The people that do understand the differences, Build their own PC's.

Watch this thread:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/new-nvidia-gtx-1080-really-makes-this-imac-seem-paltry.1971673/

Oh, I know that thread, lots of whining and qq there.


- Clearly you mixed up the CPU with a GPU and now you claim I have problems with understanding differences. Funny.
- No fraud here, just because you don't like a product, it's not lawsuit material.
- Ad hominem attacks won't help - I know differences between mobile and desktop components, still made a conscious decision to get an iMac and not build a PC.
- Other people may have different opinions/tastes/needs than you. That doesn't make them ignorant or wrong. Shocking, I know.