Impacts of removing the headphone jack [MERGED]

[boltjames]

Hahhaahaaa, You're literally killing me with this one ! But you're definitely right that I don't believe you.

Dont you see/understand these clear benefits?

Let's stop with your theories already and look at a real world A/B comparison.

One of the best selling Bluetooth headphones is the QuietComfort 35 which is the best selling wired QuietComfort 25 made wireless. The 35 is $50 more expensive, it weighs 20% more, it only has 20 hours of battery life, it has a non-replaceable battery.

Many things to read in this article, but this snippet sums things up nicely:

"In case you're wondering, the QC35 does sound a little better as a wired headphone. Despite Bose engineers' best efforts, you do lose a little something when using Bluetooth. With these types of powered headphones, there's plenty of digital processing going on and the trick is to try to get the headphone to sound as natural and clean as a corded headphone. That's really hard to do.

I sat around with Steve Guttenberg, who writes CNET's Audiophiliac column, and listened to several tracks -- in both wireless and corded modes. We both thought the QC35 was a tad bright (a little hot in the treble) and Steve made the comment that in Bluetooth mode, the headphone isn't entirely consistent, which is usually the case for Bluetooth headphones.

The meaty bass tightens up a bit when you're using it as a corded headphone and the clarity improves slightly. It's not a major difference, but there is a difference, and both Steve and I liked the headphone better as a corded active-noise canceling headphone. That said, Steve, who's an audio purist, is not a fan of active noise canceling or Bluetooth wireless."

https://www.cnet.com/products/bose-quietcomfort-35/

BJ

 

[jumpingjackflash]

Let's stop with your theories already and look at a real world A/B comparison.

One of the best selling Bluetooth headphones is the QuietComfort 35 which is the best selling wired QuietComfort 25 made wireless. The 35 is $50 more expensive, it weighs 20% more, it only has 20 hours of battery life, it has a non-replaceable battery.

Many things to read in this article, but this snippet sums things up nicely:

"In case you're wondering, the QC35 does sound a little better as a wired headphone. Despite Bose engineers' best efforts, you do lose a little something when using Bluetooth. With these types of powered headphones, there's plenty of digital processing going on and the trick is to try to get the headphone to sound as natural and clean as a corded headphone. That's really hard to do.

I sat around with Steve Guttenberg, who writes CNET's Audiophiliac column, and listened to several tracks -- in both wireless and corded modes. We both thought the QC35 was a tad bright (a little hot in the treble) and Steve made the comment that in Bluetooth mode, the headphone isn't entirely consistent, which is usually the case for Bluetooth headphones.

The meaty bass tightens up a bit when you're using it as a corded headphone and the clarity improves slightly. It's not a major difference, but there is a difference, and both Steve and I liked the headphone better as a corded active-noise canceling headphone. That said, Steve, who's an audio purist, is not a fan of active noise canceling or Bluetooth wireless."

https://www.cnet.com/products/bose-quietcomfort-35/

BJ

Do you really think they used iPhone to power those wired headphones? No, they probably used external desktop amp (likely expensive one).

Show me same comparison where iPhone is the source & amp. Vs. Wireless headphones.

Like I allready said many times, the main problem is that iPhone is not a good headphone amp to basicly any good wired headphones and good wireless outperform them easily:

"Of course, an audio system is only as good as its weakest link. If you have well-recorded music and great audiophile headphones, but are relying on the power-limited headphone amp inside your smartphone, laptop or tablet to make the headphones sing, you likely won't be driving your headphones to their full sound quality potential."

https://www.headphone.com/pages/do-my-headphones-need-a-headphone-amp
[doublepost=1484078319][/doublepost]That Bose QC35 is last years model with bluetooth 4.1. I wouldnt recommend them either. Check some other model coming in this year with bluetooth 5.0.

 

[boltjames]

Do you really think they used iPhone to power those wired headphones? No, they probably used external desktop amp (likely expensive one).

Like I allready said many times, the main problem is that iPhone is not a good headphone amp to basicly any good wired headphones and good wireless outperform them easily:

I have no idea what you are trying to say, you're getting lost in the technical specifications needlessly. The general consensus from causal users and audiophiles is that a wired headphone is superior to a Bluetooth headphone. Not only sound quality, but convenience, weight, future-proofing, and cost.

Back to the bigger picture, you seem to forget that Apple replaced one wired port for another. This doesn't have much to do with wireless or some Bluetooth revolution. The packed-in adapter or a native Lightning connection will allow wired headphones to continue to sell extremely well into the future. Lightning promises better sound quality than 3.5mm, no batteries, no handshake issues, no dropouts, no hiss, no distortion.

You've made a platform for a tidal wave of conversion to Bluetooth and its unwarranted. There is nothing different for Bluetooth's outlook on an iPhone 7 vs. an iPhone 6. The change has to do with wired options, not wireless. In the time it took me to type this, 100 headphones were sold and 83 of those 100 were wired. It's just a better technology.

BJ

 

[jumpingjackflash]

I have no idea what you are trying to say, you're getting lost in the technical specifications needlessly. The general consensus from causal users and audiophiles is that a wired headphone is superior to a Bluetooth headphone. Not only sound quality, but convenience, weight, future-proofing, and cost.

Back to the bigger picture, you seem to forget that Apple replaced one wired port for another. This doesn't have much to do with wireless or some Bluetooth revolution. The packed-in adapter or a native Lightning connection will allow wired headphones to continue to sell extremely well into the future. Lightning promises better sound quality than 3.5mm, no batteries, no handshake issues, no dropouts, no hiss, no distortion.

You've made a platform for a tidal wave of conversion to Bluetooth and its unwarranted. There is nothing different for Bluetooth's outlook on an iPhone 7 vs. an iPhone 6. The change has to do with wired options, not wireless. In the time it took me to type this, 100 headphones were sold and 83 of those 100 were wired. It's just a better technology.

BJ

Read again, but now more carefully:

"Of course, an audio system is only as good as its weakest link. If you have well-recorded music and great audiophile headphones, but are relying on the power-limited headphone amp inside your smartphone, laptop or tablet to make the headphones sing, you likely won't be driving your headphones to their full sound quality potential."

Ringing a bell now? If not I can't help you anymore.

In bigger picture, Apple will get rid off lightning port as well. This will happen really soon (in 1-4 years). Then all your wired headphones (3,5mm or lightning) will be useless. Do you get it?

No headphone jack, no lightning port, not a single hole (except speakers) after that.

What are you gonna do with your wired headphones then, huh?

 

[C DM]

Read again, but now more carefully:

"Of course, an audio system is only as good as its weakest link. If you have well-recorded music and great audiophile headphones, but are relying on the power-limited headphone amp inside your smartphone, laptop or tablet to make the headphones sing, you likely won't be driving your headphones to their full sound quality potential."

Ringing a bell now? If not I can't help you anymore.

In bigger picture, Apple will get rid off lightning port as well. This will happen really soon (in 1-4 years). Then all your wired headphones (3,5mm or lightning) will be useless. Do you get it?

No headphone jack, no lightning port, not a single hole (except speakers) after that.

What are you gonna do with your wired headphones then, huh?

Apple would really be in a rush, or anything close to it, to get rid of a proprietary port that they keep on making a lot of money off through all kinds of accessories and licensing programs?

 

[jumpingjackflash]

Apple would really be in a rush, or anything close to it, to get rid of a proprietary port that they keep on making a lot of money off through all kinds of accessories and licensing programs?

Offcourse, but they will replace lightning with some kind of optical(?) data transferring thing. They will still get their licensing fees from that, don't worry!

Apple will not hesitate cut something which is not main business. I bet they will make much more profit by going completely wireless than selling some lightning adaptors.

 

[boltjames]

Read again, but now more carefully:

"Of course, an audio system is only as good as its weakest link. If you have well-recorded music and great audiophile headphones, but are relying on the power-limited headphone amp inside your smartphone, laptop or tablet to make the headphones sing, you likely won't be driving your headphones to their full sound quality potential."

Ringing a bell now? If not I can't help you anymore.

In bigger picture, Apple will get rid off lightning port as well. This will happen really soon (in 1-4 years). Then all your wired headphones (3,5mm or lightning) will be useless. Do you get it?

No headphone jack, no lightning port, not a single hole (except speakers) after that.

What are you gonna do with your wired headphones then, huh?

Fact: Wired headphones sound better than Bluetooth.

Fact: With 87% of all headphone unit sales being wired there is zero chance Apple will release a port-less phone.

Fact: Your trolling is really weak.

Fact: Apple's decision to swap one WIRED port for another WIRED port has no bearing on the popularity of wireless headphones.

BJ

 

[Mac 128]

No headphone jack, no lightning port, not a single hole (except speakers) after that.

I actually don't think they will even have holes for speakers. In fact I was expecting them to use something like piezo-electric actuators to vibrate the surface glass of the iPhone to produce sound when they were talking about adding a second speaker in the iPhone 7. Considering the entire phone is expected to be glass eventually, this is likely an ideal solution, especially considering sound fidelity is not really a consideration in such a tiny speaker anyway.

Offcourse, but they will replace lightning with some kind of optical(?) data transferring thing. They will still get their licensing fees from that, don't worry!

Apple will not hesitate cut something which is not main business. I bet they will make much more profit by going completely wireless than selling some lightning adaptors.

I'm expecting it to be magnetic inductive connectors like the Apple Watch, or more likely the SmartConnector on the iPad. Frankly, I would prefer that to Lightning for connecting a high fidelity listening device via cables. Of course, eventually wireless audio will rival wired consumer audio. Most customers likely aren't that critical of their audio to chose wired headphones over Bluetooth, and are mostly responding to cost. Generally creating more competition and demand will go a long way toward reducing price as a barrier, and advances in battery tech and wireless audio will slowly remove the remaining pockets of resistance as audio fidelity becomes increasingly acceptable to all but a few audiophiles. And even then technology will eventually even improve to a point to please them too.

 

[jumpingjackflash]

"Apple moving toward wireless world

APPLE CUTS THE CORD

Apple senior vice president Philip Schiller made it clear Wednesday that the company sees a future where its sleek gadgets are no longer encumbered by cords at all. "''It makes no sense to tether ourselves with cables to our mobile devices," he said during the company's annual fall product event."

http://www.argusleader.com/story/news/2016/09/08/apple-moving-toward-wireless-world/89992482/

-

"Apple moves towards a wireless future, one tweak at a time

While the updates to the iPhone were incremental, Apple executives hinted that the iPhone changes were part of a companywide effort to wirelessly connect everything inside a home. Timothy D. Cook, Apple’s chief executive, explained how his company’s technology could be the central way to control all sorts of home wireless devices.

“This is Apple’s way of saying that someday the smartphone experience will be wireless,” said Tim Bajarin, an analyst at Creative Strategies. But will it be enough to reignite iPhone sales? “Not by itself,” he said. “But this along with the other tech upgrades like cameras and processors should drive high interest for those needing to upgrade, as well as draw interest by new customers too.”"

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/08/technology/iphone-7-apple-headphone-jack.html?_r=0

-

"What AirPods can tell us about Apple's future -

As Jony Ive said in the introductory video, “We are just at the beginning of a truly wireless future,” and Apple’s first move is a bold new push into audio. The AirPods will surely evolve over the next few years, but the core concepts–effortless pairing, seamless integration and smart controls–represent a new platform for Apple’s devices.

For the first time, wireless isn’t so much about the ugliness of cords. It’s about what can be accomplished when you eliminate the things that are keeping us tied down."

http://www.macworld.com/article/311...-airpods-can-tell-us-about-apples-future.html

-


All this means that all wired headphones will be obsolete in just few years.

 

[boltjames]

All this means that all wired headphones will be obsolete in just few years.

All this means that you fell victim to Apple pimping their AirPods.

BJ

 

[C DM]

"Apple moving toward wireless world

APPLE CUTS THE CORD

Apple senior vice president Philip Schiller made it clear Wednesday that the company sees a future where its sleek gadgets are no longer encumbered by cords at all. "''It makes no sense to tether ourselves with cables to our mobile devices," he said during the company's annual fall product event."

http://www.argusleader.com/story/news/2016/09/08/apple-moving-toward-wireless-world/89992482/

-

"Apple moves towards a wireless future, one tweak at a time

While the updates to the iPhone were incremental, Apple executives hinted that the iPhone changes were part of a companywide effort to wirelessly connect everything inside a home. Timothy D. Cook, Apple’s chief executive, explained how his company’s technology could be the central way to control all sorts of home wireless devices.

“This is Apple’s way of saying that someday the smartphone experience will be wireless,” said Tim Bajarin, an analyst at Creative Strategies. But will it be enough to reignite iPhone sales? “Not by itself,” he said. “But this along with the other tech upgrades like cameras and processors should drive high interest for those needing to upgrade, as well as draw interest by new customers too.”"

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/08/technology/iphone-7-apple-headphone-jack.html?_r=0

-

"What AirPods can tell us about Apple's future -

As Jony Ive said in the introductory video, “We are just at the beginning of a truly wireless future,” and Apple’s first move is a bold new push into audio. The AirPods will surely evolve over the next few years, but the core concepts–effortless pairing, seamless integration and smart controls–represent a new platform for Apple’s devices.

For the first time, wireless isn’t so much about the ugliness of cords. It’s about what can be accomplished when you eliminate the things that are keeping us tied down."

http://www.macworld.com/article/311...-airpods-can-tell-us-about-apples-future.html

-


All this means that all wired headphones will be obsolete in just few years.

Speculation about what Apple might have in mind and is planning doesn't mean much as far as how soon that might happen, how well it might catch on, and what the rest of the industry (including that which is beyond and outside of the mobile world) would do, and especially in just a few years.

Even Apple's own latest laptops which came out after iPhone 7 still have a headphone jack.

 

[nickbarbs]

I can't read this thread anymore.

Wireless earphones aren't there yet period.

He keeps saying Bluetooth earphones have better DACs. The DAC in a Bluetooth earphone will only convert digital to analogue for your earphones and is limited by the quality of the digital Bluetooth to Bluetooth connection. Current Bluetooth chips in the iphone 7 have a quality ceiling lower than he 3.5 mm jack. Aptx is not supported by the iphone 7. Again, quality isn't there yet, convenience us also not there. The rest of what is being said is noise and garbage. Do not read what he writes as facts. How do I unsubscribe from this.

 

[boltjames]

Speculation about what Apple might have in mind and is planning doesn't mean much as far as how soon that might happen, how well it might catch on, and what the rest of the industry (including that which is beyond and outside of the mobile world) would do, an especially in just a few years.

Even Apple's own latest laptops which came out after iPhone 7 still have a headphone jack.

Sometimes Apple's marketing schtick is prophetic- "no one wants a stylus, we'll use our fingers on a giant screen" and sometimes Apple's marketing schtick is self-serving- "the future of headphones is wireless". Apple didn't invent anything here. They just decided to grow their headphone division to offset a downtrending iOS division and forced a Lightning protocol on the industry and tossed a $160 set of earbuds into the wireless fray.

It's what companies do when the salad days of easy ideas and massive growth stop and they transition into the challenging "profitability" phase. When you have no more secret sauce to make Wall Street take notice, you make it all about every nickel of profit. You do things like eschew creative types and appoint a COO supply chain expert as your CEO. You squeeze your Chinese factories to the point where workers are jumping off buildings. You take away carrier subsidies and raise hardware prices. You halve your exchange policies.

And, cleverest of all, you take your best selling product, plug up all the ingress points, and make it water-resistant to eliminate costly returns. And in the process create a headphone jack dilemma that you candy-coat as "progress" while convincing the naive that it's better for them to use a dongle or an expensive, hissy Bluetooth headphone.

Think different.

BJ

 

[jumpingjackflash]

Now here's one more quote, that explains a lot:

"
When Phil Schiller used the term ‘courage’ to describe Apple’s decision to remove the 3.5mm headphone socket from the iPhone 7, his choice of that particular word was probably not accidental.

It’s likely a reference to a comment by Steve Jobs when he was asked to explain another controversial omission of an established standard: the lack of support for Flash in the iPhone and iPad …


We’re trying to make great products for people, and we have at least the courage of our convictions to say we don’t think this is part of what makes a great product, we’re going to leave it out. Some people are going to not like that, they’re going to call us names […] but we’re going to take the heat [and] instead focus our energy on these technologies which we think are in their ascendancy and we think are going to be the right technologies for customers. And you know what? They’re paying us to make those choices […] If we succeed, they’ll buy them, and if we don’t, they won’t, and it’ll all work itself out.

He could honestly have been talking about the headphone socket there, and the same points would apply, word for word. You can watch the video below."

Going completely wireless has allways been in Apples long term plan. Technology wasn't there yet lets say 5-10 years ago. But now we are witnessing of that transition.

https://9to5mac.com/2016/09/09/steve-jobs-quote-phil-schiller-iphone-7/
[doublepost=1484127383][/doublepost]

I can't read this thread anymore.

Then simply don't read it! Looks like you're not going to bring any value to this conversation anyways with your "barfs"

 

[boltjames]

Now here's one more quote, that explains a lot:

That quote explains nothing.

Apple swapped a 3.5mm port for a Lightning port and bundled-in a 3.5mm adapter. The net result of this is nothing, it has no impact whatsoever on wired or wireless headphones. You seem to want to talk about Bluetooth headphones and the removal of all wired connectivity at some point in the distant future, which is fine, just find another thread to discuss it in, it is off-topic. This thread is about the iPhone 7.

BJ

 

[C DM]

Now here's one more quote, that explains a lot:

"
When Phil Schiller used the term ‘courage’ to describe Apple’s decision to remove the 3.5mm headphone socket from the iPhone 7, his choice of that particular word was probably not accidental.

It’s likely a reference to a comment by Steve Jobs when he was asked to explain another controversial omission of an established standard: the lack of support for Flash in the iPhone and iPad …


We’re trying to make great products for people, and we have at least the courage of our convictions to say we don’t think this is part of what makes a great product, we’re going to leave it out. Some people are going to not like that, they’re going to call us names […] but we’re going to take the heat [and] instead focus our energy on these technologies which we think are in their ascendancy and we think are going to be the right technologies for customers. And you know what? They’re paying us to make those choices […] If we succeed, they’ll buy them, and if we don’t, they won’t, and it’ll all work itself out.

He could honestly have been talking about the headphone socket there, and the same points would apply, word for word. You can watch the video below."

Going completely wireless has allways been in Apples long term plan. Technology wasn't there yet lets say 5-10 years ago. But now we are witnessing of that transition.

https://9to5mac.com/2016/09/09/steve-jobs-quote-phil-schiller-iphone-7/
[doublepost=1484127383][/doublepost]

Then simply don't read it! Looks like you're not going to bring any value to this conversation anyways with your "barfs"

Well, 10 years later (let alone just a few years later) we've certainly seen Flash just completely disappear, right?

 

[super michael]

If Apple wants to get rid of wired headphones, here what apple has to do:

1st Improve Iphone battery more, since Blue Tooth drains phone faster and more. Stop thinking of thin too much and focus on making the internal phone good.

2nd Blue Tooth having good battery life, Audio quality and no connection issue.

 

[jumpingjackflash]

This thread discusses the impact of the Lightning headphone port

This thread is about the iPhone 7.

Uhmm...so...which one is it? Lol!

 

[noekozz]

All this means that all wired headphones will be obsolete in just few years.





Just because Apple got rid of the universal 3.5 jack doesn't mean everyone else will follow suit. Key word here is universal standard as apposed to proprietary.



The idea of the iPhone going completely wireless (no lightning port) would be a great idea as well, except once your phone crashes and you have to reboot you're screwed since recovery and DFU mode would be irrelevant at that point, unless they work a way to push it OTA..

 

[jumpingjackflash]

Good point. I hope Apple will sort out those crashing/recovery issues beforehand. And I think they will do.

 

[Mac 128]

Just because Apple got rid of the universal 3.5 jack doesn't mean everyone else will follow suit. Key word here is universal standard as apposed to proprietary.



The idea of the iPhone going completely wireless (no lightning port) would be a great idea as well, except once your phone crashes and you have to reboot you're screwed since recovery and DFU mode would be irrelevant at that point, unless they work a way to push it OTA..

There will always be a way to connect a wired device to an iPhone, it just won't necessarily be a hole in the device with exposed conductors. Something simple like a magnetic inductive port like Apple's SmartConnector on the iPad is all that's needed for recovery.

The Apple Watch has a "diagnostic port" that is not really user accessible. Which means most all issues with the watch are handled OTA, but if there were a serious problem, presumably taking the watch into a Genius would allow more advanced access and troubleshooting via that port. But given how innacessible it is, and the paucity of documentation about it in the wild, I suspect that it's there purely as a precautionary reason, or for some other future application.

The iPhone could have something similar inside a sealed SIM card tray door, or just a smart connector which magnetic connectors snap onto. It would be perfect for wired headphones, and no more than three conductors are needed for simple USB A, which is what all iOS devices currently use for reset, recovery, and data management.

Lightning is eventually going away, though it's not likely to be replaced with USB-C or anything else, since Apple's stated goal is wireless. So just like Lightning headphones are an option for connecting via wires, a new SmartConnector would be a completely optional connection method, especially since it would be so much less versitile than Lightning or USB-C.

 

[jumpingjackflash]

There will always be a way to connect a wired device to an iPhone, it just won't necessarily be a hole in the device with exposed conductors. Something simple like a magnetic inductive port like Apple's SmartConnector on the iPad is all that's needed for recovery.

The Apple Watch has a "diagnostic port" that is not really user accessible. Which means most issues with the watch are handled OTA, but it there were a serious problem, presumably taking the watch into a Genius would allow more advanced access and troubleshooting via that port. But given how innacessible it is, and the paucity of documentation about it in the wild, I suspect that it's there purely as a precautionary reason, or for some other future application.

That magnetic inductive port would be like super cool, seriusly!
[doublepost=1484153414][/doublepost]This Forbes-article shows that Apple has atleast some kind of patent for their visions:

"
Patent #9,453,976 was granted today, and details a system where data could flow between two devices through an optical interface. This would use a series of tiny holes that in concert would allow enough optical information to pass through:

An electronic device having an optical connector that provides and/or receives optical signals through openings or perforations formed at an external surface of the electronic device. These openings can serve as the interface of the optical connector through which the electronic device can engage in one-way or two-way communication with corresponding optical connectors of other electronic devices. These openings can be sized such that they are not visible or not easily visible with the naked human eye

Presumably some form of magnetic connector would be used to position a 'data cable' to pick up the visual signal. I'd also expect this connector to charge the iPhone through induction as Apple finally jumps on the wireless charging bandwagon. Whether Apple would conform to an existing standard such as Qi or go with its own standard licensed from the 'Made for iPhone' program remains to be seen (but I have my suspicions Tim Cook and his team would prefer the latter)."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspe...t-massive-gamble-lightning-port/#48a9c3e03538

This is super exciting stuff right here.

 

[jumpingjackflash]

"In the U.S. last month, an estimated 75% of revenue from headphones sold online came from wireless models, up from 50% in December 2015, according to Slice Intelligence. Apple's new AirPods led the way, capturing an estimated 26% share of online revenue in the wireless headphone market since launching on December 13. - Apple appears to have actually taken nearly 40% of online revenue in the market since launching AirPods."

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...s-headphone-spending-since-launching.2027005/

Holy cow. After Apple removed the headphone jack I honestly wasn' t expecting impact to be this big this soon. Congrats Apple! You've done it!

 

[maflynn]

[MOD NOTE]
This topic has been beaten to death and the last few pages are just people talking past each other, i.e., not discussing and arguing. Closing it down